[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Withano

Thats exactly what I was thinking. Gay rights are legal and anti-semitism and racism will get you in trouble. So they're nowhere near the same principals. Terrible examples.

He compared a Christians right to be homophobic to a Jewish persons right to dislike anti-semitism and a black persons right to dislike the KKK! his examples are actually the complete opposite to each other

OK - I concede that I could have picked better examples but I'm sure you understand the point I was making.

[Kizzy]

It would be a huge backwards step, in effect all it would do would allow bigots a get out clause.
For actual practicing Christians I can understand they feel conflicted however and it is up to them to wrestle with their own consciences I guess :/

[Crimson Dynamo]

Has anyone actually said - like the Pope, Arch of Canterbury etc


God does not agree with homosexuals

or

Yes he does


For it seems that its a little vague, how hard is it to find out if it is policy or not?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Has anyone actually said - like the Pope, Arch of Canterbury etc


God does not agree with homosexuals

or

Yes he does


For it seems that its a little vague, how hard is it to find out if it is policy or not?

Everything in the bible is vague and almost every passage in it contradicts another. You ultimately have to pick and choose what parts you want to follow and believe in which makes people who use religion to justify their discriminatory behavior scum.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Has anyone actually said - like the Pope, Arch of Canterbury etc


God does not agree with homosexuals

or

Yes he does


For it seems that its a little vague, how hard is it to find out if it is policy or not?

It doesn't mention the subject much in the Bible, but does condemn it where it does.

This subject is only really given any thought by Christian Fundamentalist Extremists and it is barmy to strictly adhere to edicts such as this today. IMHO.

https://carm.org/bible-homosexuality

[Kizzy]

It's a ploy to bring back section 28.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...ti-gay-3558058

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/05/18...tional-family/

[Kizzy]

It's going to be hard to legislate as religious observances are included in the hate laws I thought so won't they conflict with the rights of homosexuals to marry in church?
Personally I think it's all bunkum and wish there were no churches but there you go...

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

It's going to be hard to legislate as religious observances are included in the hate laws I thought so won't they conflict with the rights of homosexuals to marry in church?
Personally I think it's all bunkum and wish there were no churches but there you go...

Maybe everyone who cares for Gay Rights should start having REAL perspective and instead of wishing there were no CHURCHES start PRAYING that the day doesn't come when you get your wish and there will be no Churches ONLY MOSQUES, because the day that happens - and it 1,000% will - there will also BE NO GAYS.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Maybe everyone who cares for Gay Rights should start having REAL perspective and instead of wishing there were no CHURCHES start PRAYING that the day doesn't come when you get your wish and there will be no Churches ONLY MOSQUES, because the day that happens - and it 1,000% will - there will also BE NO GAYS.

I don't like mosques either.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Maybe everyone who cares for Gay Rights should start having REAL perspective and instead of wishing there were no CHURCHES start PRAYING that the day doesn't come when you get your wish and there will be no Churches ONLY MOSQUES, because the day that happens - and it 1,000% will - there will also BE NO GAYS.

People like you always make the hysterical 'ISLAM IS EVIL, IT'S GONNA TAKE OVER' speeches but they never say HOW that's going to happen.

Islam is a minority religion, the mount of agnostic/atheist people alone in the UK outnumber them significantly and they aren't going to stop breeding any time soon so Islam can't become a dominant religion in the UK through pure numbers. The media is overly suspicious of anyone with islamic connections so it would be extremely difficult for an extremist to come into power unnoticed and pretty much impossible for them to enforce anything that would benefit Islamic extremism. Even if by some miracle that they could bring something like Shariah Law into effect, it wouldn't stay in effect for long. You can't take a liberal nation and then turn it into a Shariah State, it would result in anarchy and any government that tried to enforce it would be overthrown quickly plus you'd have a battle on your hands to get the Law Enforcement agencies and the Army to comply and enforce it in the first place.

Since a political path to Power isn't viable and a gradual islamification of the British Public is impossible how do you propose that Islam will '1000%' take over? Please tell me, I'm fascinated in hearing what it is you know that nobody else does.

[Kizzy]

Farage is a banker, I wouldn't trust him as far as I could kick him :/

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Farage is a banker, I wouldn't trust him as far as I could kick him :/

er no kizzy he is a politician. a long time ago he was a trader on the stock exchange

[Kizzy]

What if you're a gay Christian?

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What if you're a gay Christian?

What if you are? There are lots of Gay Christians. Obviously you cannot be a Gay Christian Fundamentalist anymore than you can be a Gay Muslim Fundamentalist.

I don't understand your point.

[Northern Monkey]

I think it should be totally up to the cake shop what content they will print on their cakes.If they find something offensive then they should have the right to decline to make that cake.Iirc the gay men had been customers in the past of that shop and the owner had no problem taking their business before,So they had nothing against these people,Just the content which they had been told to put on their cake.
If it is the company's policy not to make cakes with offensive slogans on and this cake WAS offensive to them then they should be free to refuse to make a cake with it on.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

I think it should be totally up to the cake shop what content they will print on their cakes.If they find something offensive then they should have the right to decline to make that cake.Iirc the gay men had been customers in the past of that shop and the owner had no problem taking their business before,So they had nothing against these people,Just the content which they had been told to put on their cake.
If it is the company's policy not to make cakes with offensive slogans on and this cake WAS offensive to them then they should be free to refuse to make a cake with it on.

What if a black woman came in to order a cake for her wedding to a white man and the owner thought that interracial relationships were wrong, do you think he should have the right to refuse her on those grounds?

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

What if a black woman came in to order a cake for her wedding to a white man and the owner thought that interracial relationships were wrong, do you think he should have the right to refuse her on those grounds?

I think the cake shop should have total artistic authority over their own product.I don't think it would be right because it is not what i believe but you can't force the cake shop makers to make a cake which they don't wish to.The content that they offer should be totally up to the cake makers themselves then it is up to the customer to either use that shop or find one that better suits their needs.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

I think the cake shop should have total artistic authority over their own product.I don't think it would be right because it is not what i believe but you can't force the cake shop makers to make a cake which they don't wish to.The content that they offer should be totally up to the cake makers themselves then it is up to the customer to either use that shop or find one that better suits their needs.

I have to disagree, discrimination should have no place in a business, a cake shop is one thing but if you say it's ok to discriminate you're setting a terrible precedent imo. You could end up having creches refusing to take the children of single parents or mixed race children etc etc

I mean realistically speaking, if a customer knew that a particular cake shop was prejudiced against them for some reason they probably wouldn't use them anyway because they probably wouldn't trust them with something like their wedding cake

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I have to disagree, discrimination should have no place in a business, a cake shop is one thing but if you say it's ok to discriminate you're setting a terrible precedent imo. You could end up having creches refusing to take the children of single parents or mixed race children etc etc

I mean realistically speaking, if a customer knew that a particular cake shop was prejudiced against them for some reason they probably wouldn't use them anyway because they probably wouldn't trust them with something like their wedding cake

I would'nt compare this to a creche or something of that nature.
This is a product that is being offered.You would'nt dictate to a clothes company what they have to make and offer for sale,That is up to the designers to make and offer and hope that their product sells.If people don't like that product then they find a brand that they prefer.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I have to disagree, discrimination should have no place in a business, a cake shop is one thing but if you say it's ok to discriminate you're setting a terrible precedent imo. You could end up having creches refusing to take the children of single parents or mixed race children etc etc

I mean realistically speaking, if a customer knew that a particular cake shop was prejudiced against them for some reason they probably wouldn't use them anyway because they probably wouldn't trust them with something like their wedding cake

This is a seriously valid point Niamh, and one which I pondered. I wouldn't go to any cake shop which I knew did not genuinely want to serve me and were being made to because of the law, because - as you say - I just would not trust them because of what they might do to my cake because of possible resentment.

[M X]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

I think it should be totally up to the cake shop what content they will print on their cakes.If they find something offensive then they should have the right to decline to make that cake.Iirc the gay men had been customers in the past of that shop and the owner had no problem taking their business before,So they had nothing against these people,Just the content which they had been told to put on their cake.
If it is the company's policy not to make cakes with offensive slogans on and this cake WAS offensive to them then they should be free to refuse to make a cake with it on.

If we are going to allow discrimination, where do we draw the line?
Would it be okay for a business to refuse service to an interracial couple because they don't believe that different races should marry?

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by MichaelSpears

If we are going to allow discrimination, where do we draw the line?
Would it be okay for a business to refuse service to an interracial couple because they don't believe that different races should marry?

No,It would not be ok to refuse service for that reason.However it is up to the cake makers what design or text they are willing or able to put on the cake.They are the creators of it.I don't think an interracial couple would go in asking for a cake which says 'i support interracial marriage' on it.
If they did it would then be up to the cake company as to wether or not they could do that particular design.
However if they actually refused to serve an interracial couple any product they sell for that reason then that imo would be grounds for discrimination.
The cake shop had apparently done business with this bloke before iirc,He did'nt just refuse to serve him because he was gay.It was just the particular design that they wanted on the cake that was against the owners religious beliefs.
It's his shop,he can offer whatever products he likes in it at the end of the day.

[Northern Monkey]

What if i went into a cake shop and asked them to make a cake with say 'cake shop owners are *****'
I could rightfully be refused business because it is up to that business as to what cakes they are willing to make.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by EyeballPaul

What if i went into a cake shop and asked them to make a cake with say 'cake shop owners are *****'
I could rightfully be refused business because it is up to that business as to what cakes they are willing to make.

You didn't answer my question eyeball

To answer yours though, it'd be a bit of a weird thing to do and could technically be described as inciting hatred towards cake shop owners

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You didn't answer my question eyeball

To answer yours though, it'd be a bit of a weird thing to do and could technically be described as inciting hatred towards cake shop owners

Sorry i was adding to my previous post when yours appeared.