[Daniel.]

I guess this makes me awful in some eyes but i really wouldn't see it as my problem and get on with it

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Hazel was lovely

Disgusting Daley and Gina were filth

I agree

Originally Posted by Jack_

Indeed, I actually find it repugnant on shows like these. I can totally understand liking someone in the house and all your emotions would be be heightened and accelerated, but at least wait until you get off a bloody TV show before you do anything.

I would have to seriously, seriously like someone before I considered getting with them because my conscience would be restraining me, even moreso on national television, but as a single person I would be totally free to do that. Not my problem.

I know I already said this Jack but I think if you had actual experience of just how devastating cheating can be on a person and whole families maybe you would be able to empathise more with the (for lack of a better word) victim, even if you're the single person.

[Natalie.]

No,I wouldn't want to hurt their partner.

[goldensunlight]

Originally Posted by jet

If you know the person is married you can't absolve yourself from taking some of the blame. It's your choice to go there.

It's your choice, but if you're single then so what? You're not making the married person 'get with' you, it's their choice alone and so they should have to face the consequences, not the person who is free to do as they wish.

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Hazel was lovely

Disgusting Daley and Gina were filth

[Daniel.]

Gina was an icon

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by goldensunlight

It's your choice, but if you're single then so what? You're not making the married person 'get with' you, it's their choice alone and so they should have to face the consequences, not the person who is free to do as they wish.

And that's my entire point of people just trying to dodge facing the concequences of their actions.

If you got with a married person and their family was completely torn apart, you would absolutely be as much to blame for that as the married person. Tell yourself otherwise as much as you want, but unless the married person has been having an affair with an imaginary person, there are always two people to blame for what has happened.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

Pursuing a relationship with a married person will never ever be "justifiable" to me. In any way. People can tell themselves they're doing nothing wrong because they're not the one in the relationship but that's just a load of twaddle to make themselves feel better about the horrible thing they're doing, in my eyes.

But they aren't the one in a relationship, so it isn't 'twaddle', it's true. If you are single, you can get with whoever you want, whenever you want, as many times as you want. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, so long as you are not jeopardising a relationship with or hurting someone you made a commitment to yourself, your actions are much more justifiable than the ones who did.

Are you a bit of an inconsiderate ****? Sure. Are your morals questionable? Sure. But have you cheated on someone yourself? No, which is the worst part of any instances of cheating. No other immoral actions come close to the direct issue of cheating on someone you made a commitment to.

Yeah but none of this applies to my stance on the subject. I'm happy to call a male "bit on the side" a homewrecker too.

It absolutely applies because this culture and attitude is what it stems from, sexism and patriarchy. Prostitutes being blamed for ruining relationships when they were just doing their job, single women being abused and being called 'homewreckers' by the girlfriend while the man gets let off the hook. Disgusting nonsense that has to stop.

Okay, so in the cases when an affair completely destroys a family, the "other person" isn't deserving of a single ounce of blame for that? None at all? Well I don't understand that notion whatsoever, since the affair was perpetuated by two people.

Quite frankly imo, the one thing that makes someone who pursues a relationship with a married person worse is one who refuses to accept their share of the blame. We'll have to agree to disagree since we're clearly on entirely opposite sides of the spectrum on this debate.

Not at all, because they were not the one in a relationship. They never made a commitment to anyone, and as such, are a free agent allowed to do what they wish. It is no one's responsibility but your own to not cheat on your partner. Relationships are two-way bubble, if yours is ruined it is your fault and your fault only. No outsider can play any part in your relationship and the responsibility you have to respect them and not to cheat on them.

[Headie]

Depends how much their appearance fee is

[Niamh.]

There's no law against cheating on your partner either Jack, that's as much a moral issue as being single and sleeping with a married person. Both are scummy things to do, I agree that one is worse than the other, but both are scumbags imo

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I know I already said this Jack but I think if you had actual experience of just how devastating cheating can be on a person and whole families maybe you would be able to empathise more with the (for lack of a better word) victim, even if you're the single person.

I think I understand what you're saying, so if a single person had previously had some experience of seeing how awful cheating was, they would be less likely to get with someone who was in a relationship because of it?

I get that, and that is probably true and would if anything make their decision to go along with it even worse, but I still think they're absolved of most, if not all of the blame. And for the people who've never experienced that, well, they know no differently do they...but it's still not them who are jeopardising a relationship that they themselves have

[goldensunlight]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

And that's my entire point of people just trying to dodge facing the concequences of their actions.

If you got with a married person and their family was completely torn apart, you would absolutely be as much to blame for that as the married person. Tell yourself otherwise as much as you want, but unless the married person has been having an affair with an imaginary person, there are always two people to blame for what has happened.

I disagree. You don't know these people or have any connection to them, so I fail to see how you are to blame for their actions of cheating on someone.

I guess we just have very different opinions on this.

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Jack_

But they aren't the one in a relationship, so it isn't 'twaddle', it's true. If you are single, you can get with whoever you want, whenever you want, as many times as you want. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, so long as you are not jeopardising a relationship with or hurting someone you made a commitment to yourself, your actions are much more justifiable than the ones who did.

Are you a bit of an inconsiderate ****? Sure. Are your morals questionable? Sure. But have you cheated on someone yourself? No, which is the worst part of any instances of cheating. No other immoral actions come close to the direct issue of cheating on someone you made a commitment to.

So in a nutshell, it's "justifiable" to be a part of hurting and utterly disrespecting someone if it's not somebody you've made a commitment to? It's "justifiable" to play a role in possible destroying a family because you're not the one who made a promise to them?

Originally Posted by Jack_

It absolutely applies because this culture and attitude is what it stems from, sexism and patriarchy. Prostitutes being blamed for ruining relationships when they were just doing their job, single women being abused and being called 'homewreckers' by the girlfriend while the man gets let off the hook. Disgusting nonsense that has to stop.

Jack, I said it doesn't apply to me, my opinion on the matter has absolutely nothing to do with all of this. Sure, there are people who blame the other person more than the married person but I'm not one of them. I've explained my stance on it very clearly more than once.

Originally Posted by Jack_

Not at all, because they were not the one in a relationship. They never made a commitment to anyone, and as such, are a free agent allowed to do what they wish. It is no one's responsibility but your own to not cheat on your partner. Relationships are two-way bubble, if yours is ruined it is your fault and your fault only. No outsider can play any part in your relationship and the responsibility you have to respect them and not to cheat on them.

Yeah, there's clearly nothing more for us to discuss on the matter, I don't understand this view on the matter whatsoever, and to be honest I hope I never do.

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by goldensunlight

I disagree. You don't know these people or have any connection to them, so I fail to see how you are to blame for their actions of cheating on someone.

I guess we just have very different opinions on this.

I'm unsure why it's suddenly okay to contribute to treating someone like crap just because you don't know them (but even that isn't true in all cases of cheating, plenty of times the bit on the side does know them).

And yes, we clearly do. If someone doesn't understand the principle of their actions playing a role, there's nothing more I can (or wish to) say to them about it.

[Jack_]

Also, the flip side of the argument that allowing the single person to be absolved of any blame is 'just giving them a useful excuse to justify their actions' is that by allowing the single person to take some of the blame, you are also giving the cheater free reign to say 'well they went along with it! They got with me! They were attractive how could I help myself they didn't try to stop me ' which is absolute ****ing nonsense. It's like dropping 50% of the blame on the cheater and handing it over to the single person, giving them somewhat a justification for the fact that they disrespected their own partner.

[Daniel.]

Because it has nothing to do with you? Like, i don't know the person so im not eally ruining it for them, their partner is...

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Daniel_

Because it has nothing to do with you? Like, i don't know the person so im not eally ruining it for them, their partner is...

But you are though, both people involved are. They can't have an affair with themselves.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I think I understand what you're saying, so if a single person had previously had some experience of seeing how awful cheating was, they would be less likely to get with someone who was in a relationship because of it?

I get that, and that is probably true and would if anything make their decision to go along with it even worse, but I still think they're absolved of most, if not all of the blame. And for the people who've never experienced that, well, they know no differently do they...but it's still not them who are jeopardising a relationship that they themselves have

Yeah that's what I mean.

Being "absolved of blame" again is pretty subjective here as it's a moral issue so who is really the judge of that?

I agree if the married person is prepared to cheat with you, then they'll probably be prepared to cheat with someone else too but I believe we're all responsible for own actions and you would be having respect for both the innocent party (the married persons spouse) and for yourself by not being a part of that cheating. Not to mention the fact that if you yourself were going to get into a relationship with them then it's not a good advertisement of how they treat their partner and if it's just a sex thing that's meaningless.....doesn't that make you even more callous to be a part of hurting a person so badly just for a meaningless shag?

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

So in a nutshell, it's "justifiable" to be a part of hurting and utterly disrespecting someone if it's not somebody you've made a commitment to? It's "justifiable" to play a role in possible destroying a family because you're not the one who made a promise to them?

You are twisting this to make it look like I think such actions are morally right, or actions of a nice person. I'm not, I have made that clear.

But is it justifiable to get with someone that you like, when you are not in a relationship and are not hurting anyone that you made a commitment to? Yes, because you are free to do so.

Jack, I said it doesn't apply to me, my opinion on the matter has absolutely nothing to do with all of this. Sure, there are people who blame the other person more than the married person but I'm not one of them. I've explained my stance on it very clearly more than once.

It's not just blaming them more than the cheater though, it's blaming them at all. It's just that the latter often results in the former. The victims of cheating need to direct their anger straight at the person who went against the terms of their relationship, and no one else. Passing or sharing the blame out just gives the cheater an opportunity to defend their actions, and opens the door for this ridiculous sexism I've highlighted to rear its ugly head. It has to stop.

Yeah, there's clearly nothing more for us to discuss on the matter, I don't understand this view on the matter whatsoever, and to be honest I hope I never do.

Likewise, I hope I'm not ever complicit in facilitating patriarchy, or allowing someone who has cheated and broken the terms of a serious commitment they made to their partner to be given an opportunity to justify their behaviour.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Also, the flip side of the argument that allowing the single person to be absolved of any blame is 'just giving them a useful excuse to justify their actions' is that by allowing the single person to take some of the blame, you are also giving the cheater free reign to say 'well they went along with it! They got with me! They were attractive how could I help myself they didn't try to stop me ' which is absolute ****ing nonsense. It's like dropping 50% of the blame on the cheater and handing it over to the single person, giving them somewhat a justification for the fact that they disrespected their own partner.

Well no because none of this stuff is actually illegal so us agreeing or disagreeing on the subject isn't going to change how individual couples deal with a cheating situation. If a person wants to blame the 3rd party and not their partner they're probably doing it because they don't want to break up and want to take their anger out on someone who isn't the person sharing their bed

Also, just because you think the 3rd person is a scummy person doesn't mean you take any blame off the cheater

[Josy]

No! I actually cannot stand cheaters.

[Jake.]

Originally Posted by Daniel_

"Hazel did the same"

No she didn't, Daley told her he was single, from what I remember.

Yes, as in doing the same as what she supposedly did. I'm completely in agreeance regarding Hazel, Daley switched between being in a relationship/being single pretty much every day and got off far too lightly given that he was the one in a relationship.

[Dollface]

This is an interesting discussion tbh. I haven't voted on the poll yet because I honestly don't know whether i'd do something like that or not. Part of me thinks it's horrible (hello, girl code) but another part of me thinks, what if I really, really, really liked this person? I definitely 100% wouldn't sleep with them, but i'm not sure about a wee kiss.

[Lostie!]

Originally Posted by Jack_

You are twisting this to make it look like I think such actions are morally right, or actions of a nice person. I'm not, I have made that clear.

But is it justifiable to get with someone that you like, when you are not in a relationship and are not hurting anyone that you made a commitment to? Yes, because you are free to do so.

I twisted nothing, I used the word "justifiable" that you yourself did.

Originally Posted by Jack_

It's not just blaming them more than the cheater though, it's blaming them at all. It's just that the latter often results in the former. The victims of cheating need to direct their anger straight at the person who went against the terms of their relationship, and no one else. Passing or sharing the blame out just gives the cheater an opportunity to defend their actions, and opens the door for this ridiculous sexism I've highlighted to rear its ugly head. It has to stop.

Originally Posted by Jack_

Likewise, I hope I'm not ever complicit in facilitating patriarchy, or allowing someone who has cheated and broken the terms of a serious commitment they made to their partner to be given an opportunity to justify their behaviour.

I honesly fail to see why simply holding two people accountable for their actions amounts to "facilitating patriarchy", sexism and allowing the cheater to jutsify their actions whatsoever, and to be honest I'm insulted by that suggestion.

As I've said, numerous times now (and after this time I refuse to say it again), my stance is utterly irregardless of gender. If two people have an affair, both people deserve to be blamed imo, and that goes for a man and a woman (and both ways, regardless of which is the married one), two men, two women, anybody.

And that's certainly not a way to absolve the cheater of any responsibility because I never once said the other person should take any of their blame. Each of them should take their own, neither deserves to be absolved of any of it. Neither has done something that is in any way "justifiable" imo.

[Dominic]

No.

[goldensunlight]

Originally Posted by Lostie!

I'm unsure why it's suddenly okay to contribute to treating someone like crap just because you don't know them (but even that isn't true in all cases of cheating, plenty of times the bit on the side does know them).

And yes, we clearly do. If someone doesn't understand the principle of their actions playing a role, there's nothing more I can (or wish to) say to them about it.

It depends on the situation, but if it was on Big Brother there's a high chance you won't know their other half. I don't really see it as 'treating someone like crap' either, providing you're not the one doing the cheating. Besides, if it were somebody I'd never met in my life I would have no connection/feelings towards them and I feel if this person was somebody I was really into, it wouldn't bother me personally.