UK General election June 8 2017

[joeysteele]

As an afterthought on the foxhunting issue,people must be aware it still goes on even though it's been made illegal,so I am asking why the scum who do it are not brought to task,so even though it is banned it still goes on,so even if it came back it would be any different than it is now,it needs banning properly and policing or not at all,no good just having a law that people can just ignore (and they do) it must have been so good for the other parties when this leaked though as it's given them something to bash the Tories for although people from ALL parties fox hunt. If it goes to a vote ,let it be banned for good.

Honestly what do Cons have to do to get criticised.
This ban came into force 2005/6.

Since 2010 we have had Con led govts. which are the party who have the mass of supporters among MPs who support it.
Probably only a handful of others from other Parties only.

Maybe people get away with prosecutions by the atmosphere of Con led govts.of whom the hunt organisers and huntsmen/women are 'friends'of the Con party.

She is not bringing a vote on it to kill it off for good,she is holding a vote to bring it back only.
I predict she'll easily win that vote and this woman does not want to lose any vote she puts forward, freevote or otherwise.
I'm stunned anyone 'really' against foxhunting with dogs,would even think of allowing the risk that it could be brought back.

If,and it won't be,it was defeated,no way is she advocating killing it off for good.
She will try again at.another time since the hunt lobbyists donate to the Con party.

She won't need to, she has told them she is holding a vote,she is seeking a much greater majority for other things too,however she knows greater numbers of Con MPs, will ensure she wins 'all' votes she proposes.
What she supports will get the votes to be passed but you help her get a bigger majority if you must.

You will then be helping support her effort to bring back foxhunting with dogs and I predict it will be back.
Thankfully for me,My conscience will be clear as she'd never get the slimmest chance to do this from me.
I'll take no risks whatsoever with animals lives,I'm surprised you'd even think of supporting someone who would risk or want to enable any animals life being taken, cruelly, as Mrs May would and intends too as well with power given to her to do so.

You take that risk if you will but once back it will then likely never be stopped and the hunts then given a free for all,to do what they like again.

[arista]

Labour manifesto

Yes Nothing like the Conservative Views
because of Renationalisation

http://news.sky.com/story/vote-2017-labour-manifesto-what-it-says-and-what-it-means-10879977

[joeysteele]

Labour manifesto

Yes Nothing like the Conservative Views
because of Renationalisation

http://news.sky.com/story/vote-2017-labour-manifesto-what-it-says-and-what-it-means-10879977

I'd love to think of water back under state control.
Since privatisation water prices have also endlessly rocketed with nothing to show that is in any way much better except the greedy Companies profits.

One thing,no one can say there's no real difference between the Parties now.

[DemolitionRed]

:cheer:Labour, the party for the people.

[joeysteele]

:cheer:Labour, the party for the people.

A good slogan that DR.

[Alf]

He's all over the place, have a look on you tube he's been interviewed by everyone and his dog over the last few weeks, he is in Yorkshire now my niece has been to a talk today at uni where he is the guest. He was in Leeds the other day and I missed him there were literally 1000s of people to greet him :)

He is far far from a bumbling idiot.It must be him who West Yorkshire Police are hoping will help with their enquires in this story.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/805456/Penis-costume-West-Yorkshire-Police-serious-assault-Leeds-city-centre

[DemolitionRed]

It must be him who West Yorkshire Police are hoping will help with their enquires in this story.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/805456/Penis-costume-West-Yorkshire-Police-serious-assault-Leeds-city-centre

Bugger :hehe:

[Northern Monkey]

It must be him who West Yorkshire Police are hoping will help with their enquires in this story.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/805456/Penis-costume-West-Yorkshire-Police-serious-assault-Leeds-city-centre

:joker: :joker: :joker:

[Brillopad]

:cheer:Labour, the party for the people.

Labour the party for those naive enough to push self-destruct button more like.

[DemolitionRed]

Labour the party for those naive enough to push self-destruct button more like.

I'd say we are well informed people who don't fear change. We haven't been indoctrinated by the matrix.

[Brillopad]

I'd say we are well informed people who don't fear change. We haven't been indoctrinated by the matrix.

You do fear change, Brexit change, maybe not you personally but many labour supporters to.

Besides you offer up change as always being a good thing and beneficial to the majority which is not the case.

[Kizzy]

You do fear change, Brexit change, maybe not you personally but many labour supporters to.

Besides you offer up change as always being a good thing and beneficial to the majority which is not the case.

Don't you offer up brexit as a beneficial change?

Personally I don't fear brexit...I fear a tory brexit.

[Brillopad]

Don't you offer up brexit as a beneficial change?

Personally I don't fear brexit...I fear a tory brexit.

I fear a labour Brexit - who will open the floodgates and destroy Britain and its economy.

[Kizzy]

I fear a labour Brexit - who will open the floodgates and destroy Britain and its economy.

Are we back to immigration again? wow that's got to be a record.

[Kizzy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN3PJlSeWuk

Why's that? Because social care has been privatised, if you can't pay ....die

[Kizzy]

What does The Bow Group ( a conservative thinktank) think of the govt social care proposals?

'These proposals will mean that the majority of property owning citizens could be transferring the bulk of their assets to the government upon death for care they have already paid a lifetime of taxes to receive.

It is a tax on death and on inheritance. It will mean that in the end, the government will have taken the lion’s share of a lifetime earnings in taxes. If enacted, it is likely to represent the biggest stealth tax in history and when people understand that they will be leaving most of their estate to the government, rather than their families, the Conservative party will experience a dramatic loss of support.'

Here's hoping.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/may/18/general-election-2017-theresa-may-conservative-manifesto-social-care-politics-live

[smudgie]

What does The Bow Group ( a conservative thinktank) think of the govt social care proposals?

'These proposals will mean that the majority of property owning citizens could be transferring the bulk of their assets to the government upon death for care they have already paid a lifetime of taxes to receive.

It is a tax on death and on inheritance. It will mean that in the end, the government will have taken the lion’s share of a lifetime earnings in taxes. If enacted, it is likely to represent the biggest stealth tax in history and when people understand that they will be leaving most of their estate to the government, rather than their families, the Conservative party will experience a dramatic loss of support.'

Here's hoping.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/may/18/general-election-2017-theresa-may-conservative-manifesto-social-care-politics-live

I can see some people won't be too happy.
But if you have the assets then why depend on the state to look after you?
You can still leave your little darlings £100k once you die.
Of course the flip side is, if people could lose 100 of thousands pounds for their parent to pay for their care they might consider other ways of caring for them, also I should imagine a lot more people will be signing their properties over to their kids before they reach needing care.

[Cherie]

I can see some people won't be too happy.
But if you have the assets then why depend on the state to look after you?
You can still leave your little darlings £100k once you die.
Of course the flip side is, if people could lose 100 of thousands pounds for their parent to pay for their care they might consider other ways of caring for them, also I should imagine a lot more people will be signing their properties over to their kids before they reach needing care.


I imagine they will move the goalposts on that as well, its 7 years I think currently, probably double or treble..

[DemolitionRed]

You do fear change, Brexit change, maybe not you personally but many labour supporters to.

Besides you offer up change as always being a good thing and beneficial to the majority which is not the case.

I've only become a Labour supporter since the Coalition.

I offer nothing. I suggest change when it will clearly benefit my children and future grandchildren.

You have offered zilch, nothing, zero as to why we should keep the Tory government.

[smudgie]

[/B]


I imagine they will move the goalposts on that as well, its 7 years I think currently, probably double or treble..

Yes, very good possibility of that Cherie.
Plus, can everybody trust their kids to look after their interests once they have the assets.
Sell up and enjoy it all while you can I reckon.:joker:

[Cherie]

Yes, very good possibility of that Cherie.
Plus, can everybody trust their kids to look after their interests once they have the assets.
Sell up and enjoy it all while you can I reckon.:joker:

That would be my thinking:hee:

[Kizzy]

lAzYn70jq8E

[Wizard.]

The Lib Dems poster was unveiled today

http://assets.lbc.co.uk/2017/20/liberal-democrat-poster-1495280438.png

[Kizzy]

Put a bit of slap on and that IS her.... :joker:

[Alf]

I seriously have no one to vote for.


Communism on one side vs Police state on the other. What a choice.


I could give my vote to UKIP, but there's no point, because they have no future.


Liberal and Greens, just no.

[Withano]

I seriously have no one to vote for.


Communism on one side vs Police state on the other. What a choice.


I could give my vote to UKIP, but there's no point, because they have no future.


Liberal and Greens, just no.

Why don't you do a political affiliation test? I doubt you truly identify with none of them!

[Denver]

I am voting Monster Raving Looney Party

[Brillopad]

I am voting Monster Raving Looney Party

It's beginning to have its appeal.

[Cherie]

The Lib Dems poster was unveiled today

http://assets.lbc.co.uk/2017/20/liberal-democrat-poster-1495280438.png

:joker:

[Kizzy]

The American view on the Labour manifesto

vI073wq2zKY

[Jack_]

865989366187012096

865990056649076737

866001515382702080

:joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker:

[Jack_]

absolutely screaming at the boos for fox hunting

[Sticks]

865989366187012096

865990056649076737

866001515382702080

:joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker:

Sheffield Rally in 1992 ring any bells?

[joeysteele]

:joker:

The Lib Dems confuse me here with this poster.
Have they nothing more serious to say and spend money on in this election.

Is this poster,if it has any impact at all,really likely to hurt the Cons.

Farage was hugely popular with UKIP supporters, with the fact he is not even standing for UKIP in this election.
Looking at a poster depicting Mrs May as herself and Farage, is more likely to drive UKIP sympathisers and voters to the Cons,if it's likely they get Farage's ideas.

I don't get the Lib Dems thinking here,to me,far from damaging the Cons,the thought of getting Farage through Mrs May will probably be beneficial to her.

Are the Lib Dems so desperate to hopefully see Labour go really well down, they'd really be content to see a much stronger Con govt.
I think voters need to think about this Lib Dem campaign and the Lib Dems real objectives.

[Cherie]

The Lib Dems confuse me here with this poster.
Have they nothing more serious to say and spend money on in this election.

Is this poster,if it has any impact at all,really likely to hurt the Cons.

Farage was hugely popular with UKIP supporters, with the fact he is not even standing for UKIP in this election.
Looking at a poster depicting Mrs May as herself and Farage, is more likely to drive UKIP sympathisers and voters to the Cons,if it's likely they get Farage's ideas.

I don't get the Lib Dems thinking here,to me,far from damaging the Cons,the thought of getting Farage through Mrs May will probably be beneficial to her.

Are the Lib Dems so desperate to hopefully see Labour go really well down, they'd really be content to see a much stronger Con govt.
I think voters need to think about this Lib Dem campaign and the Lib Dems real objectives.


That's a good point, that said I think they are aiming it at the Remainers who won't vote for Corbyn

[Nicky91]

#Corbyn4Strictly, get him out of politics and into the entertainment shows :hee:

[Cherie]

very Trumpesque !

[joeysteele]

That's a good point, that said I think they are aiming it at the Remainers who won't vote for Corbyn

Well, it appears remain voters are not seemingly flocking to the Lib Dems anyway,I think you are right but really remain voters need to grasp the Lib Dems will not be able to effectively influence anything after this election probably.

I am naturally suspicious of the Lib Dems after trusting them in 2010 and seeing them abandon all I actually voted for them for.
All for 5 years assured power,a few Ministerial positions and a deputy PM title for Clegg.

[Withano]

865989366187012096

865990056649076737

866001515382702080

:joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker: :joker:

God I love him

[Kizzy]

I seriously have no one to vote for.


Communism on one side vs Police state on the other. What a choice.


I could give my vote to UKIP, but there's no point, because they have no future.


Liberal and Greens, just no.

Labour it is then Alf :)

[Kizzy]

very Trumpesque !

Sandersesque :smug:

[Cherie]

Well, it appears remain voters are not seemingly flocking to the Lib Dems anyway,I think you are right but really remain voters need to grasp the Lib Dems will not be able to effectively influence anything after this election probably.

I am naturally suspicious of the Lib Dems after trusting them in 2010 and seeing them abandon all I actually voted for them for.
All for 5 years assured power,a few Ministerial positions and a deputy PM title for Clegg.



same here, I trusted them on tuition fees, Lib Dems won't get my vote..:fist:

[Kizzy]

ditto!

[Alf]

Labour it is then Alf :)That option is definitely not going to happen. I just couldn't inflict that on my country.

[Kizzy]

That option is definitely not going to happen. I just couldn't inflict that on my country.

You can't waste a vote, I say take a leap of faith in old labour what's the worst that could happen?

[Northern Monkey]

Why don't you do a political affiliation test? I doubt you truly identify with none of them!

I did that and it told me i'm a raving Tory even though i've never voted for them and never will.

[DemolitionRed]

I seriously have no one to vote for.


Communism on one side vs Police state on the other. What a choice.


I could give my vote to UKIP, but there's no point, because they have no future.


Liberal and Greens, just no.

Why not the Greens? They have the best economists.

[Black Dagger]

#Corbyn4Strictly, get him out of politics and into the entertainment shows :hee:

Yeah just get somebody who is trying to change the UK as we know it out of Politics so he can ****ing do a bastard pasodoble.

[DemolitionRed]

Thank you Jack and thanks for that video Kizzy :)

[Jack_]

I realise I'm biased, but I can and have pointed out when I think Corbyn's style is weak and ineffective in its endeavour, but this...best I've seen him.

866232173216616448

[Mystic Mock]

The public won't give Corbyn the win as the people judge too much on the individual rather than on the fact that May is apart of a party that wants to heavily regulate the Internet (which I thought that we all enjoyed the freedoms of the Internet) and treats the disabled, the NHS, the working class, Wales, and Northern Ireland like ****.

Oh and don't forget that under this wonderful party we've had two Referendums rather than strong leadership.

[hijaxers]

That option is definitely not going to happen. I just couldn't inflict that on my country.

Well i will be ! Even had a bet on him.

[Cherie]

The public won't give Corbyn the win as the people judge too much on the individual rather than on the fact that May is apart of a party that wants to heavily regulate the Internet (which I thought that we all enjoyed the freedoms of the Internet) and treats the disabled, the NHS, the working class, Wales, and Northern Ireland like ****.

Oh and don't forget that under this wonderful party we've had two Referendums rather than strong leadership.

Are you going to vote Mock?

[joeysteele]

The public won't give Corbyn the win as the people judge too much on the individual rather than on the fact that May is apart of a party that wants to heavily regulate the Internet (which I thought that we all enjoyed the freedoms of the Internet) and treats the disabled, the NHS, the working class, Wales, and Northern Ireland like ****.

Oh and don't forget that under this wonderful party we've had two Referendums rather than strong leadership.


I agree,it annoys me so much that elections are only as to the leaders.
We have a Party system of govt in the UK and elections were fought that way.
The most popular leaders in an election not always winning elections.

Churchill losing to Attlee,Wilson losing to Heath in 1970,Thatcher beating Callaghan in 1979 when Callaghan was way more popular than her.

This move to near only leader against leader,rather than policies of each Party for govt really does a massive disservice to UK voters and Parliament itself too,in my view.

[*mazedsalv**]

I decided I AM going to vote. I said I wouldn't because they made me feel so tiny when I was refused to vote during Brexit and was embarrassingly turned away even though I got the email urging me I was eligible.

Anyway... I broke my promise and will vote Labour. But they won't win, May will win comfortably, and by a landslide.

The Tories have fans who are a very strong and loyal. The momentum is in Labour's side but sorry, sadly, having a few young people for him is not enough to overtake the older voters. Because lets be honest, turnout of the over 40s voting will be around 50x more than the under 30s voting!

[Kizzy]

I don't know I think many have awaken to just how corrupt they are with this oil donation scandal.

[Samm]

vote labour

http://i.imgur.com/yhU2Bsc.gif

[arista]

the Election re starts on National Level on Friday
after the Terrorist Attack of Manchester


Local areas start tomorrow

[Mystic Mock]

Are you going to vote Mock?

Now that my situation is better I'm going to yes.

[Greg!]

867848021182173185

Jez is coming! Can't wait for Nicky Sturgeon to be the deal maker :clap1:

[Cherie]

Now that my situation is better I'm going to yes.

:clap2: Mocky

[Withano]

867848021182173185

Jez is coming! Can't wait for Nicky Sturgeon to be the deal maker :clap1:

Omg! Would need Labour to lead the polls by about 5/10% before I get optimistic.. But this is starting to turn!

[Wizard.]

Sweety polls favour Labour so deduct a few points from them also with them losing ground to Tories in Scotland Labour won't win until the SNP collapse

[Jack_]

Polls typically overestimate Labour's share of the vote by an average of 2%, and underestimate the Tories. Labour needs to be leading by 8-10 points before I start getting my hopes up

And besides, this election is now going to focus on security, and that plays right into May's hands. The tabloid press are gonna go into overdrive, the Tories poll ratings will increase again, and this election will definitely be over. That said, it will be interesting to see if UKIP gain some ground again, it might be a small mercy if they start taking votes off the Conservatives

[Mystic Mock]

Lib Dems really haven't recovered much from the Coalition have they?

[Wizard.]

867848021182173185

Jez is coming! Can't wait for Nicky Sturgeon to be the deal maker :clap1:

Also I don't understand how you can support the SNP but want Labour to win when that's a highly unlikely scenario and if you truly wanted Labour to win you'd have to get the SNP out of Scotland.

[Greg!]

Also I don't understand how you can support the SNP but want Labour to win when that's a highly unlikely scenario and if you truly wanted Labour to win you'd have to get the SNP out of Scotland.

Not really babes. Even if Labour had every seat in Scotland they'd still be in opposition. All it takes is for there to be more anti-Tory MPs than Tories and they'll be out! Here's hoping :fc:

[Greg!]

Plus Scottish Labour are trash so you wouldn't catch me voting for them in a hurry!

[joeysteele]

The SNP don't bother me as to Scotland,I really rate Nicola Sturgeon as a leader.
It could have actually for me, have been a good result and good government, had Labour enough seats to to govern with SNP support after the 2015 election.

Again in my view,that would be a good thing still now,for the across the UK.

[Jack_]

An SNP-Labour coalition is the only way the latter is getting anywhere near government this election (and even that's a long shot), it was one of the messages recited by the Tories last time and contributed to Miliband's loss, and now the gap is closing I expect them to trot the line out again.

[Denver]

why would anyone want Corbyn in charge when he has said he will end the UK's fight against terrorism

[Jack_]

Why would anyone want May in charge when she was warned her appalling cuts to the police would put us at risk of dealing with a terror attack, and she ignored them?

[Denver]

They could have a million police officer but it wont stop a terror attack.


Behind the scenes do the important work

[Ronald.]

I would be more than happy with Labour/SNP. R.

[Denver]

I would be more than happy with Labour/SNP. R.

For another election next year when SNP get independence?

[Wizard.]

Neither the Conservatives nor Labour are being honest with voters about the economic consequences of their policy proposals, an influential think tank has warned. #GE17

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40057115

[Ronald.]

For another election next year when SNP get independence?

Anything that keeps the frightful Theresa away! R.

[Alf]

Are we really going to go out and vote to put a Marxist in charge of our books.

9lCcFjRhiaw



At the end of World war II, Germany was split into East and West, The West controlled by the Western allied forces (capitalists), the East was controlled by the Eastern allied forces (Communists)

When the wall came down in 1989, did the people of the West flee to the East to escape capitalism? or did the people of the East flee to the West to escape communism?

[Kizzy]

Are we really going to go out and vote to put a Marxist in charge of our books.

9lCcFjRhiaw



At the end of World war II, Germany was split into East and West, The West controlled by the Western allied forces (capitalists), the East was controlled by the Eastern allied forces (Communists)

When the wall came down in 1989, did the people of the West flee to the East to escape capitalism? or did the people of the East flee to the West to escape communism?

You're ok with fascists in charge of the media.... :/

[Alf]

You're ok with fascists in charge of the media.... :/No I'm not, why would I be?

[Northern Monkey]

nEEZnI2qdsw

[Jack_]

Is this real life?

868105386443907072

868140629704019968

[Kizzy]

It appeals to them, renationalisation is what many want, that is the sovereignty that many voted brexit for isn't it?...I mean the ones that aren't just ignorant racists :idc:

[Brillopad]

It appeals to them, renationalisation is what many want, that is the sovereignty that many voted brexit for isn't it?...I mean the ones that aren't just ignorant racists :idc:

Thankfully most can rise above the ignorance of the PC brigade who just try, try and try again. :bawling:

[Kizzy]

HxN1STgQXW8

[DemolitionRed]

The overriding statement I've heard from the people of Manchester is "Love". This from Corbyn seems to me totally aligned with that. So the timing is good, he's listened and reacted. That's what good politicians do.

[Greg!]

I like Jeremy and his policies but he's really not very good at interviews is he. I'm buzzing out my tits for Ncola's interview. Hope she gets Andrew TELT.

[joeysteele]

The overriding statement I've heard from the people of Manchester is "Love". This from Corbyn seems to me totally aligned with that. So the timing is good, he's listened and reacted. That's what good politicians do.

I wholeheartedly agree DR.

[Kizzy]

May said at the G7 Corbyn says it's our fault.... if you ignore the 2 heads of MI5 and the Chilcott that said it first!

(In relation to policy obv)

[Kizzy]

Come on... Where was Neil grilling about this for may?..

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/nhs-patients-trolleys-wait-12-hours-more-rise-6000-per-cent-hospitals-british-medical-association-a7757016.html

[Scarlett.]

Says something when every recent post on the Conservative's Twitter is about Corbyn and not May. Poor May, she thought this campaign would be a cake walk.

[Denver]

Spamming means nothing

[Denver]

Probaly all fake twitter accounts from Corbyn

[Denver]

He loss any chance he had yesterday

[Kizzy]

nEEZnI2qdsw

So did the Chilcott report, and 2 heads of MI5, don't get sucked into the vortex of tory spin... This is a diversionary tactic to hide from an uncosted manifesto and news of imminent cuts from the IFS.

[Wizard.]

So Jeremy Corbyn was out playing football today and talking about grassroots football whilst Theresa May is leading the country. There's more important things to be talking about Jezza.

[Kazanne]

Says something when every recent post on the Conservative's Twitter is about Corbyn and not May. Poor May, she thought this campaign would be a cake walk.

I don't think she did think that,afterall she did say never take anything for granted :shrug: I'm not actually sure she is even bothered if she wins,it's a thankless job for anyone.

[Greg!]

So Jeremy Corbyn was out playing football today and talking about grassroots football whilst Theresa May is leading the country. There's more important things to be talking about Jezza.

Jeremy Corbyn is a human who does human things, unlike robotic Tressemé who wants to steal kids' lunches.

[Wizard.]

Jeremy Corbyn is a human who does human things, unlike robotic Tressemé who wants to steal kids' lunches.

No he's a fake who pretends to care about certain issues at least you know Theresa May isn't a very likeable person but she's the woman for the job.

[Greg!]

Hardly fake when he's had the same ideas and convictions for about 40 years but okay.

[Braden]

No he's a fake who pretends to care about certain issues at least you know Theresa May isn't a very likeable person but she's the woman for the job.

https://theworldturnedupsidedownne.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/jezza-aparted.jpg

[reece(:]

Jeremy Corbyn is a human who does human things, unlike robotic Tressemé who wants to steal kids' lunches.
Drag ha!

[LukeB]

So Jeremy Corbyn was out playing football today and talking about grassroots football whilst Theresa May is leading the country. There's more important things to be talking about Jezza.

god forbid a human being a human.

[Denver]

He is a disgrace to humanity and it says something when other leaders dont want him in charge

[LukeB]

Jeremy Corbyn is a human who does human things, unlike robotic Tressemé who wants to steal kids' lunches.

:clap1: She only cares for the rich and fox hunting would be awful. she is a scum.

[Wizard.]

god forbid a human being a human.

Sis they need to create a new species called "laughing stock" because he would be the leader of that race.

[joeysteele]

I think given the chance he would surprise many doubters.
After all Mrs May has just gone power and personal authority mad after taking office.

She is a real liability the cruel,unsavoury and heartless ideas she holds and supports.

At least Corbyn sticks to his word enough that it stands for something,unlike deceiver May whose word,no matter how many times she gives it,is totally meaningless.

[lewis111]

https://theworldturnedupsidedownne.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/jezza-aparted.jpg

Love how everyone just skipped over this

[DemolitionRed]

Love how everyone just skipped over this

Some of us are already aware of Corbyns long history with good causes. Others refuse to acknowledge that.

[Alf]

https://theworldturnedupsidedownne.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/jezza-aparted.jpgA trouble causing, attention seeking, Drama Queen.

Who hates everything British.


Sounds tempting.

[Greg!]

A trouble causing, attention seeking, Drama Queen.

Who hates everything British.


Sounds tempting.

How does demonstrating against apartheid make him any of those things? I don't quite get it.

[Kizzy]

KJBy5YfCHT8

[Wizard.]

868596179260645376

Where's all the Corbynites screaming "IT'S HAPPENING!" now? Tories have a 14 point lead here or is that fake news nonsense? :laugh:

[Denver]

People feel safe with Dame Mutha Theresa

[Wizard.]

People feel safe with Dame Mutha Theresa

Theresa May our queen :flutter: Jeremy go back to the 60's Britain doesn't want you!

[reece(:]

Best not to use polls as gospel because you know what happens when you do that :fan:

[Wizard.]

Best not to use polls as gospel because you know what happens when you do that :fan:

I don't that's why when that poll came out of Labour closing in on the Tories I knew it was a load of shyte.

[Wizard.]

Best not to use polls as gospel because you know what happens when you do that :fan:

Also I bet on Brexit and Trump and Mutha Theresa is winning this one wooo

[Greg!]

I don't that's why when that poll came out of Labour closing in on the Tories I knew it was a load of shyte.

*multiple polls

And I can go on that twitter account right now and share some other recent polls that show Labour closing in on the Tories but I cba. TEZZA IS SHOOK!

[DemolitionRed]

Also I bet on Brexit and Trump and Mutha Theresa is winning this one wooo

If you were driving to a friends house, took a wrong turn and hit a dead end, would you turn around?

Most failure isn't like that. You can give Trump and May a makeover all you like but statistics will never justify your reasoning.

[MTVN]

868613559915360260

Funny how quickly things change, in 2015 everyone was saying that we had moved beyond the dominance of two party politics

[Northern Monkey]

868613559915360260

Funny how quickly things change, in 2015 everyone was saying that we had moved beyond the dominance of two party politics

Yeah Withano was right.People see this election as a two horse race.
Idk if that's to do with Brexit or what

[user104658]

868613559915360260

Funny how quickly things change, in 2015 everyone was saying that we had moved beyond the dominance of two party politics

We have. We now have fear-driven one party politics.

[Withano]

CDMSJig_SHs

I'm dying, this is the best thing

[Denver]

Screaming at polls meaning nothing When Mutha Yes strengthens her lead but are the most accurate think when the devil was closing in on her

[JTM45]

People feel safe with Dame Mutha Theresa

Robots compute they are safe with a 'Weak & Wobbly' robot in charge.:laugh:

All the robots referred to in this statement have repurposed ZX-81 processors running their Worlds.

[Withano]

Its rather like, telling the people burning down your house, that if they don't stop, you will, quite simply, refuse to call the fire bregade

[Brillopad]

Desperadoes believing all Corbyns promises. Words come cheap - actions are a whole new ball game.

[Withano]

Desperadoes believing all Corbyns promises. Words come cheap - actions are a whole new ball game.

Not believing Corbyns good policies isn't a reason to vote Mays terrible policies :shrug:

[DemolitionRed]

We have to accept that people become entrenched in their own beliefs. They have made their decision and they don’t want to agonise over it any more. You can selectively cite statistics that justify your cause but you can’t battle against peoples own self justifications.

Regardless of people understanding little about the complexities of politics, people will still fight to keep their position, even if that means clinging to failure.

[AnnieK]

I rarely comment on political threads as my parents always told me to keep my political leanings because they cause problems between friends. How right they were. I find it amazing how condescending people are being on here and other foruns by saying if people don't believe in the policies of one side or another it's because they don't understand politics or economics etc. I personally would never listen to someone who alluded to the fact that I'm obviously uneducated or ill informed because I vote for one side or the other. Reasoned debate on both sides is what is needed with arguments and counter argumens not insults and recriminations

[Cherie]

CDMSJig_SHs

I'm dying, this is the best thing

:joker::joker:

[Cherie]

I rarely comment on political threads as my parents always told me to keep my political leanings because they cause problems between friends. How right they were. I find it amazing how condescending people are being on here and other foruns by saying if people don't believe in the policies of one side or another it's because they don't understand politics or economics etc. I personally would never listen to someone who alluded to the fact that I'm obviously uneducated or ill informed because I vote for one side or the other. Reasoned debate on both sides is what is needed with arguments and counter argumens not insults and recriminations

:clap2: Annie it's getting to ridiculous levels as usual on here

[Kizzy]

Desperadoes believing all Corbyns promises. Words come cheap - actions are a whole new ball game.

It's the actions of the tories that turn people into desperados.

[Kizzy]

I rarely comment on political threads as my parents always told me to keep my political leanings because they cause problems between friends. How right they were. I find it amazing how condescending people are being on here and other foruns by saying if people don't believe in the policies of one side or another it's because they don't understand politics or economics etc. I personally would never listen to someone who alluded to the fact that I'm obviously uneducated or ill informed because I vote for one side or the other. Reasoned debate on both sides is what is needed with arguments and counter argumens not insults and recriminations

If you can't stand the heat Annie chat and games is 3 doors down... :idc:

[AnnieK]

:idc:Nothing to do with not standing the heat Kizzy....its worse than primary school in here. I have seen more reasoned debates in schools to be honest. :idc:

Plus to be fair your response sums up the level of debate on here

[smudgie]

I rarely comment on political threads as my parents always told me to keep my political leanings because they cause problems between friends. How right they were. I find it amazing how condescending people are being on here and other foruns by saying if people don't believe in the policies of one side or another it's because they don't understand politics or economics etc. I personally would never listen to someone who alluded to the fact that I'm obviously uneducated or ill informed because I vote for one side or the other. Reasoned debate on both sides is what is needed with arguments and counter argumens not insults and recriminations

Indeed.
I can't take anything that people with those ideas say seriously.
Such flawed logic.

[Kizzy]

:idc:Nothing to do with not standing the heat Kizzy....its worse than primary school in here. I have seen more reasoned debates in schools to be honest. :idc:

Plus to be fair your response sums up the level of debate on here

It was a joke Annie... So you think that patronising people is wrong, so you patronise me to express that?

I'm not having this cyclical discussion with you, join in the debate or don't I'm not bothered, I will continue to state my opinion regardless of your sensibilities.

[DemolitionRed]

I rarely comment on political threads as my parents always told me to keep my political leanings because they cause problems between friends. How right they were. I find it amazing how condescending people are being on here and other foruns by saying if people don't believe in the policies of one side or another it's because they don't understand politics or economics etc. I personally would never listen to someone who alluded to the fact that I'm obviously uneducated or ill informed because I vote for one side or the other. Reasoned debate on both sides is what is needed with arguments and counter argumens not insults and recriminations

Oh come on, when someone states that Corbyn was best friends with Sinn Fein or that Corbyn fiscal policies can't possibly work, whilst giving no reason other than, "its all shtie" people are going to question their political knowledge and when people try telling us that austerity is good and debt is bad, they don't only not grasp fiscal policy, they don't want to grasp it.

I'd love someone sitting on the blue team to heartily debate their side of things but when people come back with, "my mums better than your mum" responses, it doesn't reflect well on them and the whole thread just becomes a cluster fcuk of in-fighting.

[DemolitionRed]

Political debate is always heated and energetic and carries a high risk of being offended or offending someone. If people don't want to join in that's fine, I don't blame them. To pop into a political debate just to complain about the heat is a bit pointless!!

[joeysteele]

Political debate is always heated and energetic and carries a high risk of being offended or offending someone. If people don't want to join in that's fine, I don't blame them. To pop into a political debate just to complain about the heat is a bit pointless!!

This is so true, even with my family once this election was called,has fuelled real heated debate and often angry retorts too.

However that has altered since the foxhunting plan was firmly entrenched in the Con manifesto.
Across my whole family, many who reside in the countryside areas, that has brought total dismay and disgust.

That doesn't mean they'll vote my way but it's helped making them think of not voting Con at least.
Of course,you are right, people can get offended,especially when valid points are made and pointed out.
Which only get put down with probably little or no reasoning behind the put down.

[Cherie]

I've seen many good debates in my time, people who can actually debate don't have to resort to telling the other side they are ignorant and ill informed, it is possible to have a sensible debate without name calling and casting aspirations on the oppositions education and how well read they are, it's happening on both sides of the argument as well :idc:

[AnnieK]

Political debate is always heated and energetic and carries a high risk of being offended or offending someone. If people don't want to join in that's fine, I don't blame them. To pop into a political debate just to complain about the heat is a bit pointless!!

I understand what you're saying but I was explaining mine and other people's reasoning for not wanting to get involved. It is reflected across the country and explains to me why voter apathy is at its height.

[Denver]

Basically on here if you dont support labour you are insulted and demeaned constantly

[Wizard.]

Basically on here if you dont support labour you are insulted and demeaned constantly

This basically. But not just on this forum, if you support the Conservatives you are "Tory scum". What the left don't understand is that we don't care what you call us, because at the end of the day whilst you spend your time insulting us, we are winning elections and doing the best for Britain.

[Wizard.]

Also I would like to point out that personally, I do not agree with everything the Conservatives put forward, unlike Labour supporters who seem to be fanatic about every policy- But I do believe that the best way to change things and attitudes is from the inside. I take a very Liberal Conservative approach and I think that the Libral faction of the Conservative Party is the best way forward for the party and the country. So when people say "Tory scum" actually think that not every Tory has the same beliefs, just like Labour has "Corbynites" who are far left and "Blairites" who are centeristic.

I actually voted Labour in the last GE before I got into politics properly and now I have seen the light. But if Labour actually offered anything substantial that related to my beliefs in the future I'm not going to say that I would never vote Labour, but right now that looks highly unlikely.

[Kizzy]

Then just don't listen to other people, read the manifestos and make up your own mind. All the loony left and rabid right stuff is going to happen as the two choices are such a dichotomy, I guess it is frustrating that the other side can't see what we see?

Personally I feel I try my best to remain respectful....honest.

[Wizard.]

Then just don't listen to other people, read the manifestos and make up your own mind. All the loony left and rabid right stuff is going to happen as the two choices are such a dichotomy, I guess it is frustrating that the other side can't see what we see?

Personally I feel I try my best to remain respectful....honest.


Yeah like I don't tell people what they should believe in for example I would probably say to my mum that it's more beneficial for her to vote Labour, but I wouldn't. It's just annoying being young too because the majority of other young people don't remain respectful because they are really against the Tories.

[Denver]

I feel 90% of the tories manifesto is better then anyone elses the other 10% i dont particularly agree or care for

[Wizard.]

I feel 90% of the tories manifesto is better then anyone elses the other 10% i dont particularly agree or care for

I will happily admit that Theresa May's U-Turn on social care is an embarrassment it just annoys me that Jeremy Corbyn supporters defend him to the death even when they know he's wrong? When people are blind to their own downfalls it really annoys me but you have to let them get on with it.

[Greg!]

Also I would like to point out that personally, I do not agree with everything the Conservatives put forward, unlike Labour supporters who seem to be fanatic about every policy- But I do believe that the best way to change things and attitudes is from the inside. I take a very Liberal Conservative approach and I think that the Libral faction of the Conservative Party is the best way forward for the party and the country. So when people say "Tory scum" actually think that not every Tory has the same beliefs, just like Labour has "Corbynites" who are far left and "Blairites" who are centeristic.

I actually voted Labour in the last GE before I got into politics properly and now I have seen the light. But if Labour actually offered anything substantial that related to my beliefs in the future I'm not going to say that I would never vote Labour, but right now that looks highly unlikely.

What exactly do you agree with the Tories on then? Benefit sanctions? The rape clause? The dementia tax? The bedroom tax? Bringing back fox hunting? Making impossible immigration promises? Ending winter fuel allowance? Snatching school dinners off kids? Feeding school kids with costings of 7p per meal?

I don't understand why and I'm interested to know why you support the tories and what you like about them, especially as you're a young person.

[Wizard.]

What exactly do you agree with the Tories on then? Benefit sanctions? The rape clause? The dementia tax? The bedroom tax? Bringing back fox hunting? Making impossible immigration promises? Ending winter fuel allowance? Snatching school dinners off kids? Feeding school kids with costings of 7p per meal?

I don't understand why and I'm interested to know why you support the tories and what you like about them, especially as you're a young person.

Well first of all those are policies I do not agree with but also the way you word those are the way the SNP and Labour use policies to attack the Tories when their own rankings in the polls aren't as good as they hope and I can bet you if Labour get into power the SNP would be picking out polices from them and turning them into a rhetoric that best benefits them because that's what political parties do.

I am a Conservative because I believe in free markets, free enterprise, a strong national defence and I also believe in the state helping those who find themselves in the worst of circumstances but not intervening in the life of its citizens and having everything nationalised and run by the government. I also take Margaret Thatchers view on individualism, maybe not in such an extreme approach because their needs to be safety nets for people and I believe government has a duty to help people but I believe that people need to make their own way in life without the help of public expenditure. I need to point out that when growing up I was raised by a single mum on benefits so please don't stereotype me into the privately educated schoolboy box just like I am completely aware that not all Labour supporters are free loving hippies who want world peace.

There's a reason that the Conservative party is one of THE most successful political parties in the western world and is the longest running party in the U.K. in terms of election wins is because the objective of the Conservatives is to adapt in order to retain its position of Government in order not to destabilise the country and its economy.

[DemolitionRed]

Basically on here if you dont support labour you are insulted and demeaned constantly

I'm sorry you feel that way but perhaps you need to understand that I feel the same way about the Tory/UKIP voters on here.

[DemolitionRed]

I feel 90% of the tories manifesto is better then anyone elses the other 10% i dont particularly agree or care for

Out of interest, what parts do you think are better?

[Brother Leon]

Basically on here if you dont support labour you are insulted and demeaned constantly

Boohoo.

Try being someone who believes in a religion on here :laugh:

[Kizzy]

You should try being me on here...

[Northern Monkey]

Labour for me do have the best manifesto.I just don't know if i can look past *cough Abbott getting into a position of any power.I'm wavering.

I won't vote Tory that's for sure.

[Denver]

Out of interest, what parts do you think are better?

Education and Immigration are the best parts for me.

Yes she made the mistake of school dinner prices but all the rest have been rather good

[Kizzy]

Education and Immigration are the best parts for me.

Yes she made the mistake of school dinner prices but all the rest have been rather good

There are further cuts of 7% for schools in the manifesto... :/

[Denver]

these are good


Democracy

Pledge to go ahead with a boundary review and to reduce the number of MPs to 600.

Voters will be made to present identification before they can vote while the traditional voting method of using a pencil and paper will be kept.

The honours system to be reviewed to make sure it commands public confidence and to protect the integrity of the honours bestowed.

Homelessness

A commitment to halve rough sleeping over the course of the next parliament and eliminate it by 2027.

[reece(:]

CDMSJig_SHs

I'm dying, this is the best thing


:joker::joker::joker:

[Denver]

There are further cuts of 7% for schools in the manifesto... :/

A ban on new selective schools will be lifted with provision put in place to ensure pupils can join at other ages as well as 11.

To build at least a hundred new free schools a year with councils banned from creating new places at schools rated inadequate or requires improvement.

Plans for a national funding formula will be changed to ensure no school loses out.

The overall schools budget will increase by £4 billion by 2022 with free school meals for all infants to be scrapped and replaced with free breakfasts.


So you are saying these are good things?

[reece(:]

The breakfasts aren't happening, Tula messed up with that as well :joker:

[TomC]

I am currently trying to sort my political conscience out! I live in Scotland, and I can't help but feel the system is flawed from our perspective. It is far too confusing knowing what will actually affect us in this vote, because so much is devolved to Holyrood anyway. I feel like the only fair way to fix this is to give each nation in the UK its own parliament, so everyone is voting on the same issues in a UK election, or, more drastically, Scottish independence.

Under the current system however, I am leaning more and more to voting SNP. I feel it's so important for Scotland to be respresented in Westminster, by a party that is not subjugated by Westminster, and can actually stand for Scotland first and foremost.

[Denver]

The breakfasts aren't happening, Tula messed up with that as well :joker:

It will happen she just needs to revisits the figures and sack the person who gave them her

[Greg!]

I am currently trying to sort my political conscience out! I live in Scotland, and I can't help but feel the system is flawed from our perspective. It is far too confusing knowing what will actually affect us in this vote, because so much is devolved to Holyrood anyway. I feel like the only fair way to fix this is to give each nation in the UK its own parliament, so everyone is voting on the same issues in a UK election, or, more drastically, Scottish independence.

Under the current system however, I am leaning more and more to voting SNP. I feel it's so important for Scotland to be respresented in Westminster, by a party that is not subjugated by Westminster, and can actually stand for Scotland first and foremost.

This! And it doesn't help that the UK parties have completely opposite policies on the same issues in Scotland and England.

[arista]

They are now saying if more young vote
Corbyn will be PM.

They can fit it in on
the long voting day Thursday 8th of June

[DemolitionRed]

They are now saying if more young vote
Corbyn will be PM.

They can fit it in on
the long voting day Thursday 8th of June

A lot of young people have not received their voting cards. :fist:

[Denver]

Mess at Nicola claiming Scottish nurses are the best paid in the UK then getting found out they are paid 2 quid less

[Denver]

Mess at her stabbing Corbyn in the back and saying she doesnt want him in charge

[Greg!]

Hmm so Nicki smashed that interview. The best one BY FAR

[Denver]

She ended any hopes of a Labour and SNP coalition

[Greg!]

She literally just said she would seek one if there was a hung parliament though.

[Denver]

She admitted to not liking him not wanting him in charge and not agreeing with some of his manifesto

[Greg!]

Ok but she made clear that she doesn't want a Tory government which means she'd rather Jez won.

[joeysteele]

She literally just said she would seek one if there was a hung parliament though.

She handled this interview really well.

I feel confident that if it's at all possible, and I'd love it to be,that she can shift this truly rotten Con govt.out,she will do so.

I see not a thing wrong with a Labour led govt. with support from the SNP.
In fact I believe that could turn out to be a really good and successful govt. too.

[Cherie]

A lot of young people have not received their voting cards. :fist:

Source? You don't need a polling card to vote you just need to have registered by the deadline

[arista]

A lot of young people have not received their voting cards. :fist:


they need to chase that UP

[Kazanne]

Mess at Nicola claiming Scottish nurses are the best paid in the UK then getting found out they are paid 2 quid less

:joker::joker:

[DemolitionRed]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39856354
The godfather of psephology or the study of elections, Sir David Butler, said this week that the movement in the polls over this campaign is bigger than in any election he's covered since 1945. But many experts think that election campaigns don't make much difference - voters' views are set years or months before polling day.

So does that mean the polls must be wrong? Not necessarily. Voters have become much more volatile than they used to be - much less loyal to a single party.

[DemolitionRed]

Wow, even the Times is now saying, fear is all the Tories have left.

[Kazanne]

I kinda hope labour win, just to see what they do,but not really fair to wish that on the country.

[smudgie]

I kinda hope labour win, just to see what they do,but not really fair to wish that on the country.

Noooooo, you trying to give me nightmares.:joker:
Seriously though, whoever wins we just have to get on with it.:shrug:
Grab them presents off the tree and smile:laugh:

[Wizard.]

I kinda hope labour win, just to see what they do,but not really fair to wish that on the country.

I always give myself an insurance policy on these things. £5 on Corbyn returns me £250 so at least if the country goes to pot I can buy a nice pair of shoes :love:

[Kazanne]

I always give myself an insurance policy on these things. £5 on Corbyn returns me £250 so at least if the country goes to pot I can buy a nice pair of shoes :love:

:joker::joker:

[Denver]

The day Labour win is the day 60% British leave the country to be replaced by 50 times that amount of foreigners

[Black Dagger]

Good. ****ing good riddance.

[Denver]

Perched for English being banned in the UK under labour

[Greg!]

The day Labour win is the day 60% British leave the country to be replaced by 50 times that amount of foreigners

Can't wait :love:

[Brother Leon]

The day Labour win is the day 60% British leave the country to be replaced by 50 times that amount of foreigners

Bring on the hard working foreigners that will appreciate what King Corbyn can provide them :clap1:

[Black Dagger]

Perched for English being banned in the UK under labour

Don't see that in the manifesto hun. Stop talking bollocks.

[Brother Leon]

Don't see that in the manifesto hun. Stop talking bollocks.

Don't matter. The opposition has resorted to hypotheticals and quotes from the 80s to try poke holes and detract him his popular policies.

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/indy100/bJXckaEjZEZ/23649-en71g7.gif

[Denver]

Don't see that in the manifesto hun. Stop talking bollocks.

They have pretty much confirmed they dont care about British people

[Greg!]

...no they haven't.

[Denver]

We will prioritise skilled workers from overseas

[Denver]

On another note the SNP have been found out for frauds today

[Greg!]

We will prioritise skilled workers from overseas

When have they ever said that?

[Greg!]

On another note the SNP have been found out for frauds today

How so? :)

[Denver]

All the party leaders in Scotland have come out and said they have destroyed the hospitals and education for 10 years while pushing independence

[Greg!]

All the party leaders in Scotland have come out and said they have destroyed the hospitals and education for 10 years while pushing independence

So because their opponents criticised them that means they've been exposed for fraud? I despair.

[Denver]

Well yea also the fact she has left independence out of all her talks but soon as she wins it is all she will mention

[Smithy]

The day Labour win is the day 60% British leave the country to be replaced by 50 times that amount of foreigners

Perched for English being banned in the UK under labour

tf is this veiled racism

[DemolitionRed]

They have pretty much confirmed they dont care about British people

Is that what you tell people?

[DemolitionRed]

When have they ever said that?

He did say that last night but so did May.

[Greg!]

He did say that last night but so did May.

Oh yeah I sort of remember it now. Adam has taken it out of context to fit his line of argument.

[Brother Leon]

869624331415863296

What a man.

[Denver]

tf is this veiled racism

When English becomes a race you would have a point

[Kazanne]

Sly old dogs, first I heard of this.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/810616/general-election-2017-jeremy-corbyn-council-tax-bills-homeowner-john-mcdonnell

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3676113/labour-planning-new-garden-tax-which-would-see-council-tax-treble/

[smudgie]

Sly old dogs, first I heard of this.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/810616/general-election-2017-jeremy-corbyn-council-tax-bills-homeowner-john-mcdonnell

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3676113/labour-planning-new-garden-tax-which-would-see-council-tax-treble/

That's it then, been thinking of popping a full length extension on the back.
Could sway our decision for sure.
There was a fella on the Daily Politics this afternoon on about the same thing.:fist:

[Kazanne]

That's it then, been thinking of popping a full length extension on the back.
Could sway our decision for sure.
There was a fella on the Daily Politics this afternoon on about the same thing.:fist:

make it a big one smudgie ,might extend the conservatory aswell :laugh:

[smudgie]

make it a big one smudgie ,might extend the conservatory aswell :laugh:

Aye, just wondering what we can stick on the front garden:joker:

[Kazanne]

Aye, just wondering what we can stick on the front garden:joker:

:joker: You could build a brick ****house

[smudgie]

:joker: You could build a brick ****house

Hmmmm, already got 3 loos,what if the next trick is to tax you on how many loos?:laugh::laugh:

[Kazanne]

Hmmmm, already got 3 loos,what if the next trick is to tax you on how many loos?:laugh::laugh:

That would be crap !!!!!:laugh:

[smudgie]

That would be crap !!!!!:laugh:

Nice to see some humour amongst the angst.:joker::joker:
Seriously though, I wonder if we could fit a little bungalow( or a log cabin) in the back garden, then the kids can have this beggar now.:joker:

[Kazanne]

Nice to see some humour amongst the angst.:joker::joker:
Seriously though, I wonder if we could fit a little bungalow( or a log cabin) in the back garden, then the kids can have this beggar now.:joker:

I was going to suggest a little bungalow Smudgie,depends how big your garden is.

[Greg!]

869662208892030976

Theresa is SHOOK

[smudgie]

I was going to suggest a little bungalow Smudgie,depends how big your garden is.

To be fair, it's not big enough for a bungalow.
Our house stands in the middle of the garden, between front, back and sides, but back is a bit bigger.
We are going to either extend or find a bungalow, this LVT tax could sway us to stay and extend I think.

[Jack_]

869662208892030976

Theresa is SHOOK

I'm absolutely ****ing screaming at the prospect of Sinn Fein actually taking up their seats to prop up a Labour minority government (with the SNP), the Mail and people on here would be frothing at the mouth :joker:

That said, as wonderful as this looks, it just ain't gonna happen. The problem with Labour's poll increases is twofold - it mobilises 'shy Tories' to actually vote because it plays into Crosby's narrative that a Corbyn premiership is a possibility, and Labour's actual vote share has almost always been overestimated by an average of 2% (often higher). Factor this in and a ten-point gap is still a landslide, not to mention the fact that under our ridiculous electoral system if Labour are stockpiling votes in their strongholds it's completely futile.

When the election was called I thought a plus 400/sub 200 split, after Dementia Tax Gate I was thinking the Tories on around 380, now I'm back to thinking they'll be on 420-430, Labour 140-150

[King Gizzard]

My hero
869869672489005056

[reece(:]

This is iconic

vow3kokvdng

[Brillopad]

This is iconic

vow3kokvdng

Blimey he looks old there.

[DemolitionRed]

Riddles and nonsense!
https://youtu.be/7ihG8Wqv9gI

[Withano]

Not my words, obviously

Here’s what I’m really struggling to understand. All I’ve ever heard from people, for years, is:

“bloody bankers and their bonuses”
“bloody rich and their offshore tax havens “
“bloody politicians with their lying and second homes”
“bloody corporations paying less tax than me”
“bloody Establishment, they’re all in it together”
“it’ll never change, there’s no point in voting”

And quite rightly so, I said all the same things.

But then someone comes along that’s different. He upsets the bankers and the rich. The Tory politicians hate him along with most of the labour politicians. The corporations throw more money at the politicians to keep him quiet. And the Establishment is visibly shaken. I’ve never seen the Establishment so genuinely scared of a single person.

So the media arm of the establishment gets involved. Theresa phones Rupert asking what he can do, and he tells her to keep her mouth shut, don’t do the live debate, he’ll sort this out. So the media goes into overdrive with:

“she’s strong and stable”
“he’s a clown”
“he’s not a leader”
“look he can’t even control his own party”
“he’ll ruin the economy”
“how’s he gonna pay for it all?!”
“he’s a terrorist sympathiser, burn him, burn the terrorist sympathiser”

And what do we? We’ve waited forever for an honest politician to come along but instead of getting behind him we bow to the establishment like good little workers. They whistle and we do a little dance for them. We run around like hypnotised robots repeating headlines we’ve read, all nodding and agreeing. Feeling really proud of ourselves because we think we’ve came up with our very own first political opinion. But we haven’t, we haven’t come up with anything. This is how you tell. No matter where someone lives in the country, they’re repeating the same headlines, word for word. From Cornwall to Newcastle people are saying:

“he’s a clown”
“he’s a threat to the country”
“she’s strong and stable”
“he’ll take us back to the 70s”

And there’s nothing else, there’s no further opinion. There’s no evidence apart from one radio 5 interview that isn’t even concrete evidence, he actually condemns the violence of both sides in the interview. There’s no data or studies or official reports to back anything up. Try and think really hard why you think he’s a clown, other than the fact he looks like a geography teacher (no offence geography teachers) because he hasn’t done anything clownish from what I’ve seen.

And you’re not on this planet if you think the establishment and the media aren’t all in it together.

You think Richard Branson, who’s quietly winning NHS contracts, wants Corbyn in?
You think Rupert Murdoch, who’s currently trying to widen his media monopoly by buying sky outright, wants Jeremy in?
You think the Barclay brothers, with their offshore residencies, want him in?
You think Philip Green, who stole all the pensions from BHS workers and claims his wife owns Top Shop because she lives in Monaco, wants Corbyn in?
You think the politicians, both Labour and Tory, with their second homes and alcohol paid for by us, want him in?
You think Starbucks, paying near zero tax, wants him in?
You think bankers, with their multi million pound bonuses, want him in?

And do you think they don’t have contact with May? Or with the media? You honestly think that these millionaires and billionaires are the sort of people that go “ah well, easy come easy go, it was nice while it lasted”?? I wouldn’t be if my personal fortune was at risk, I’d be straight on the phone to Theresa May or Rupert Murdoch demanding this gets sorted immediately.

Because here’s a man, a politician that doesn’t lie and can’t lie. He could have said whatever would get him votes anytime he wanted but he hasn’t. He lives in a normal house like us and uses the bus just like us. He’s fought for justice and peace for nearly 40 years. He has no career ambitions. And his seat is untouchable. That’s one of the greatest testimonies. No one comes close to removing him from his constituency, election after election.

His Manifesto is fully costed. It all adds up, yes there’s some borrowing but that’s just to renationalise the railway, you know we already subsidise them and they make profit yeah? One more time… WE subsidise the railway companies and they walk away with a profit, just try and grasp the level of piss taking going on there.

Unlike the Tory manifesto with a £9 billion hole, their figures don’t even add up.

And it benefits all of us, young, old, working, disabled, everyone. The only people it hurts are the establishment, the rich, the bankers, the top 5% highest earners.

Good, screw them, it’s long overdue. #VoteLabour #ForTheManyNotTheFew !

[Kizzy]

Not my words, obviously

Here’s what I’m really struggling to understand. All I’ve ever heard from people, for years, is:

“bloody bankers and their bonuses”
“bloody rich and their offshore tax havens “
“bloody politicians with their lying and second homes”
“bloody corporations paying less tax than me”
“bloody Establishment, they’re all in it together”
“it’ll never change, there’s no point in voting”

And quite rightly so, I said all the same things.

But then someone comes along that’s different. He upsets the bankers and the rich. The Tory politicians hate him along with most of the labour politicians. The corporations throw more money at the politicians to keep him quiet. And the Establishment is visibly shaken. I’ve never seen the Establishment so genuinely scared of a single person.

So the media arm of the establishment gets involved. Theresa phones Rupert asking what he can do, and he tells her to keep her mouth shut, don’t do the live debate, he’ll sort this out. So the media goes into overdrive with:

“she’s strong and stable”
“he’s a clown”
“he’s not a leader”
“look he can’t even control his own party”
“he’ll ruin the economy”
“how’s he gonna pay for it all?!”
“he’s a terrorist sympathiser, burn him, burn the terrorist sympathiser”

And what do we? We’ve waited forever for an honest politician to come along but instead of getting behind him we bow to the establishment like good little workers. They whistle and we do a little dance for them. We run around like hypnotised robots repeating headlines we’ve read, all nodding and agreeing. Feeling really proud of ourselves because we think we’ve came up with our very own first political opinion. But we haven’t, we haven’t come up with anything. This is how you tell. No matter where someone lives in the country, they’re repeating the same headlines, word for word. From Cornwall to Newcastle people are saying:

“he’s a clown”
“he’s a threat to the country”
“she’s strong and stable”
“he’ll take us back to the 70s”

And there’s nothing else, there’s no further opinion. There’s no evidence apart from one radio 5 interview that isn’t even concrete evidence, he actually condemns the violence of both sides in the interview. There’s no data or studies or official reports to back anything up. Try and think really hard why you think he’s a clown, other than the fact he looks like a geography teacher (no offence geography teachers) because he hasn’t done anything clownish from what I’ve seen.

And you’re not on this planet if you think the establishment and the media aren’t all in it together.

You think Richard Branson, who’s quietly winning NHS contracts, wants Corbyn in?
You think Rupert Murdoch, who’s currently trying to widen his media monopoly by buying sky outright, wants Jeremy in?
You think the Barclay brothers, with their offshore residencies, want him in?
You think Philip Green, who stole all the pensions from BHS workers and claims his wife owns Top Shop because she lives in Monaco, wants Corbyn in?
You think the politicians, both Labour and Tory, with their second homes and alcohol paid for by us, want him in?
You think Starbucks, paying near zero tax, wants him in?
You think bankers, with their multi million pound bonuses, want him in?

And do you think they don’t have contact with May? Or with the media? You honestly think that these millionaires and billionaires are the sort of people that go “ah well, easy come easy go, it was nice while it lasted”?? I wouldn’t be if my personal fortune was at risk, I’d be straight on the phone to Theresa May or Rupert Murdoch demanding this gets sorted immediately.

Because here’s a man, a politician that doesn’t lie and can’t lie. He could have said whatever would get him votes anytime he wanted but he hasn’t. He lives in a normal house like us and uses the bus just like us. He’s fought for justice and peace for nearly 40 years. He has no career ambitions. And his seat is untouchable. That’s one of the greatest testimonies. No one comes close to removing him from his constituency, election after election.

His Manifesto is fully costed. It all adds up, yes there’s some borrowing but that’s just to renationalise the railway, you know we already subsidise them and they make profit yeah? One more time… WE subsidise the railway companies and they walk away with a profit, just try and grasp the level of piss taking going on there.

Unlike the Tory manifesto with a £9 billion hole, their figures don’t even add up.

And it benefits all of us, young, old, working, disabled, everyone. The only people it hurts are the establishment, the rich, the bankers, the top 5% highest earners.

Good, screw them, it’s long overdue. #VoteLabour #ForTheManyNotTheFew !

Withano you are a legend!! Love it JC4PM!!! :D

[smudgie]

:idc: £30-48million black hole.
Nationalisation not costed.
Thinks that people would accept bonds for their shares:joker:

Please.........:laugh:

[DemolitionRed]

Not my words, obviously

Here’s what I’m really struggling to understand. All I’ve ever heard from people, for years, is:

“bloody bankers and their bonuses”
“bloody rich and their offshore tax havens “
“bloody politicians with their lying and second homes”
“bloody corporations paying less tax than me”
“bloody Establishment, they’re all in it together”
“it’ll never change, there’s no point in voting”

And quite rightly so, I said all the same things.

But then someone comes along that’s different. He upsets the bankers and the rich. The Tory politicians hate him along with most of the labour politicians. The corporations throw more money at the politicians to keep him quiet. And the Establishment is visibly shaken. I’ve never seen the Establishment so genuinely scared of a single person.

So the media arm of the establishment gets involved. Theresa phones Rupert asking what he can do, and he tells her to keep her mouth shut, don’t do the live debate, he’ll sort this out. So the media goes into overdrive with:

“she’s strong and stable”
“he’s a clown”
“he’s not a leader”
“look he can’t even control his own party”
“he’ll ruin the economy”
“how’s he gonna pay for it all?!”
“he’s a terrorist sympathiser, burn him, burn the terrorist sympathiser”

And what do we? We’ve waited forever for an honest politician to come along but instead of getting behind him we bow to the establishment like good little workers. They whistle and we do a little dance for them. We run around like hypnotised robots repeating headlines we’ve read, all nodding and agreeing. Feeling really proud of ourselves because we think we’ve came up with our very own first political opinion. But we haven’t, we haven’t come up with anything. This is how you tell. No matter where someone lives in the country, they’re repeating the same headlines, word for word. From Cornwall to Newcastle people are saying:

“he’s a clown”
“he’s a threat to the country”
“she’s strong and stable”
“he’ll take us back to the 70s”

And there’s nothing else, there’s no further opinion. There’s no evidence apart from one radio 5 interview that isn’t even concrete evidence, he actually condemns the violence of both sides in the interview. There’s no data or studies or official reports to back anything up. Try and think really hard why you think he’s a clown, other than the fact he looks like a geography teacher (no offence geography teachers) because he hasn’t done anything clownish from what I’ve seen.

And you’re not on this planet if you think the establishment and the media aren’t all in it together.

You think Richard Branson, who’s quietly winning NHS contracts, wants Corbyn in?
You think Rupert Murdoch, who’s currently trying to widen his media monopoly by buying sky outright, wants Jeremy in?
You think the Barclay brothers, with their offshore residencies, want him in?
You think Philip Green, who stole all the pensions from BHS workers and claims his wife owns Top Shop because she lives in Monaco, wants Corbyn in?
You think the politicians, both Labour and Tory, with their second homes and alcohol paid for by us, want him in?
You think Starbucks, paying near zero tax, wants him in?
You think bankers, with their multi million pound bonuses, want him in?

And do you think they don’t have contact with May? Or with the media? You honestly think that these millionaires and billionaires are the sort of people that go “ah well, easy come easy go, it was nice while it lasted”?? I wouldn’t be if my personal fortune was at risk, I’d be straight on the phone to Theresa May or Rupert Murdoch demanding this gets sorted immediately.

Because here’s a man, a politician that doesn’t lie and can’t lie. He could have said whatever would get him votes anytime he wanted but he hasn’t. He lives in a normal house like us and uses the bus just like us. He’s fought for justice and peace for nearly 40 years. He has no career ambitions. And his seat is untouchable. That’s one of the greatest testimonies. No one comes close to removing him from his constituency, election after election.

His Manifesto is fully costed. It all adds up, yes there’s some borrowing but that’s just to renationalise the railway, you know we already subsidise them and they make profit yeah? One more time… WE subsidise the railway companies and they walk away with a profit, just try and grasp the level of piss taking going on there.

Unlike the Tory manifesto with a £9 billion hole, their figures don’t even add up.

And it benefits all of us, young, old, working, disabled, everyone. The only people it hurts are the establishment, the rich, the bankers, the top 5% highest earners.

Good, screw them, it’s long overdue. #VoteLabour #ForTheManyNotTheFew !

:thumbs:

[joeysteele]

:idc: £30-48million black hole.
Nationalisation not costed.
Thinks that people would accept bonds for their shares:joker:

Please.........:laugh:

It can't be costed,it's not going to be done right off for goodness sake.
It will more than likely be done gradually and even if borrowing is the way,then the State will get returns right off anyway.

Even the IFS said this couldn't be costed yet.
The figure you quote could rise or fall as time goes on and even they said the benefits could outweigh over time any borrowing requirement.

The point is, you may be surprised to know, there are many voters sick of endless rising energy,rail and water costs.
If voters want the State to step in,either in part,which would be far less costly,or in full then whatever it takes that should be done.
Then set prices to where consumers get protected from endless increases and the treasury gains too from the receipts,rather than greedy companies running these industries.

[smudgie]

It can't be costed,it's not going to be done right off for goodness sake.
It will more than likely be done gradually and even if borrowing is the way,then the State will get returns right off anyway.

Even the IFS said this couldn't be costed yet.
The figure you quote could rise or fall as time goes on and even they said the benefits could outweigh over time any borrowing requirement.

The point is, you may be surprised to know, there are many voters sick of endless rising energy,rail and water costs.
If voters want the State to step in,either in part,which would be far less costly,or in full then whatever it takes that should be done.
Then set prices to where consumers get protected from endless increases and the treasury gains too from the receipts,rather than greedy companies running these industries.

Yes, can't be costed, so therefore hasn't been costed, all that cost on top of the big black gaping hole to start with.
That money tree better spout extra money..and quick:joker:

[King Gizzard]

Yada yada polls don't mean nothing yada yada. Down to 3

870025264239177729

[Denver]

This SNP twat is an idiot thinking foreign criminals deserve to live here

[Wizard.]

Yada yada polls don't mean nothing yada yada. Down to 3

870025264239177729

Yougov again. It doesn't matter anyway why are people still living for the polls when YouGov themselves got the EU referendum wrong.

[Wizard.]

This SNP twat is an idiot thinking foreign criminals deserve to live here

The SNP are the worst i will cry if they prop up Labours minority in a coalition of chaos.

[Withano]

Yougov again. It doesn't matter anyway why are people still living for the polls when YouGov themselves got the EU referendum wrong.

They got well within the margin of error on Brexit. There was a spike in the poll directly after Jo Cox's death, but that aside, they were very accurate.

Polls in general are ****, which is why nobody is presuming they're gonna be identical to election day. But the closening gap shouldnt be ignored, this appears closer than the 2015 election, and its likely that this will reflect on election day.

[smudgie]

They got well within the margin of error on Brexit. There was a spike in the poll directly after Jo Cox's death, but that aside, they were very accurate.

Polls in general are ****, which is why nobody is presuming they're gonna be identical to election day. But the closening gap shouldnt be ignored, this appears closer than the 2015 election, and its likely that this will reflect on election day.

Nail on the head.

I really can't see any landslide victory happening.
Could be frighteningly close....makes for an exciting night on the 8th.

[King Gizzard]

In all fairness I was confident/a lot of other people were confident Ed was going to win in '15 and look how that turned out :sad:

[joeysteele]

Yes, can't be costed, so therefore hasn't been costed, all that cost on top of the big black gaping hole to start with.
That money tree better spout extra money..and quick:joker:

The plans in the manifesto but no one knows the costings expected because some will be more economical to take over over time.

There's no gaping hole at all,it's not included.
The costings in the manifesto are for the NHS,Police,Education etc,.
This nationalisation needs to be done attached more economical time and at present has the estimated figure you listed but that figure could change downwards.

The manifesto for all the other domestic things is costed and it's a bit rich and pathetic of you raising this,when the Con manifesto has not a single costing,no idea of the ceiling of any caps

You can try your hardest but the industries to be possibly nationalised need to be bought at the best times.
I see you pass over the fact that once bought,receipts then go to the treasury.
Which means any borrowing is well worth it.

Why as a Labour voter I even bothered to reply to you on this considering you and your deceitful party won't tell any voters a single costing of any of the policies in the Con manifesto.
Absolutely pathetic.

[Greg!]

This SNP twat is an idiot thinking foreign criminals deserve to live here

Hmm because he definitely said that right enough. :rolleyes:

[smudgie]

The plans in the manifesto but no one knows the costings expected because some will be more economical to take over over time.

There's no gaping hole at all,it's not included.
The costings in the manifesto are for the NHS,Police,Education etc,.
This nationalisation needs to be done attached more economical time and at present has the estimated figure you listed but that figure could change downwards.

The manifesto for all the other domestic things is costed and it's a bit rich and pathetic of you raising this,when the Con manifesto has not a single costing,no idea of the ceiling of any caps

You can try your hardest but the industries to be possibly nationalised need to be bought at the best times.
I see you pass over the fact that once bought,receipts then go to the treasury.
Which means any borrowing is well worth it.

Why as a Labour voter I even bothered to reply to you on this considering you and your deceitful party won't tell any voters a single costing of any of the policies in the Con manifesto.
Absolutely pathetic.

:laugh: hardly "a bit rich of me and pathetic of me" , it's a debate, all things are up for debate.
I have no more idea than you about the Tory manifesto costing, but I do have more faith in their ability to do a better job than Mr Money Tree himself.
I find it a bit silly you thinking that you even bothered to debate with someone just because they support the opposing side to you, perhaps you would be better off on a fan forum rather than debate:shrug:

[Greg!]

The SNP are the worst i will cry if they prop up Labours minority in a coalition of chaos.

I would absolutely scream if that happened :joker:

[Denver]

Hmm because he definitely said that right enough. :rolleyes:
he said all immigrants should stay which includes criminals

[Greg!]

He did not say that. He said that EU nationals that have made a life here should have the threat of deportation removed and their liveliehoods shouldn't be used as bargaining chips in the Brexit talks.

[joeysteele]

:laugh: hardly "a bit rich of me and pathetic of me" , it's a debate, all things are up for debate.
I have no more idea than you about the Tory manifesto costing, but I do have more faith in their ability to do a better job than Mr Money Tree himself.
I find it a bit silly thinking that you even bothered to debate with someone just because they support the opposing side to you, perhaps you would be better off on a fan forum rather than debate:shrug:

I am happy to debate fairly with anyone but when you cannot give us costings from the Cons.it is very rich of you to try to cheap shot criticise another part any other party in fact.
You are not debating at all, you are just looking for any silly thing and inventing wrong things against Labour while ignoring the massive failings of the costings from your party.

I will for sure avoid your nonsense in doing that in the future.
Pathetic.

[joeysteele]

He did not say that. He said that EU nationals that have made a life here should have the threat of deportation removed and their liveliehoods shouldn't be used as bargaining chips in the Brexit talks.

You are right I have just watched it again on the parliament channel.
You are spot on.

[Denver]

I would love to know how t is the UK's job to run USA

[Denver]

Cant believe Corbyn bullied Rudd when her father has just died </3

[Headie]

Cant believe Corbyn bullied Rudd when her father has just died </3

Mrs Strong and Stable shouldn't have made her take all the bullets then!

[joeysteele]

Mrs Strong and Stable shouldn't have made her take all the bullets then!

Exactly right and anyway did they even know.

[Jack_]

Not my words, obviously

Here’s what I’m really struggling to understand. All I’ve ever heard from people, for years, is:

“bloody bankers and their bonuses”
“bloody rich and their offshore tax havens “
“bloody politicians with their lying and second homes”
“bloody corporations paying less tax than me”
“bloody Establishment, they’re all in it together”
“it’ll never change, there’s no point in voting”

And quite rightly so, I said all the same things.

But then someone comes along that’s different. He upsets the bankers and the rich. The Tory politicians hate him along with most of the labour politicians. The corporations throw more money at the politicians to keep him quiet. And the Establishment is visibly shaken. I’ve never seen the Establishment so genuinely scared of a single person.

So the media arm of the establishment gets involved. Theresa phones Rupert asking what he can do, and he tells her to keep her mouth shut, don’t do the live debate, he’ll sort this out. So the media goes into overdrive with:

“she’s strong and stable”
“he’s a clown”
“he’s not a leader”
“look he can’t even control his own party”
“he’ll ruin the economy”
“how’s he gonna pay for it all?!”
“he’s a terrorist sympathiser, burn him, burn the terrorist sympathiser”

And what do we? We’ve waited forever for an honest politician to come along but instead of getting behind him we bow to the establishment like good little workers. They whistle and we do a little dance for them. We run around like hypnotised robots repeating headlines we’ve read, all nodding and agreeing. Feeling really proud of ourselves because we think we’ve came up with our very own first political opinion. But we haven’t, we haven’t come up with anything. This is how you tell. No matter where someone lives in the country, they’re repeating the same headlines, word for word. From Cornwall to Newcastle people are saying:

“he’s a clown”
“he’s a threat to the country”
“she’s strong and stable”
“he’ll take us back to the 70s”

And there’s nothing else, there’s no further opinion. There’s no evidence apart from one radio 5 interview that isn’t even concrete evidence, he actually condemns the violence of both sides in the interview. There’s no data or studies or official reports to back anything up. Try and think really hard why you think he’s a clown, other than the fact he looks like a geography teacher (no offence geography teachers) because he hasn’t done anything clownish from what I’ve seen.

And you’re not on this planet if you think the establishment and the media aren’t all in it together.

You think Richard Branson, who’s quietly winning NHS contracts, wants Corbyn in?
You think Rupert Murdoch, who’s currently trying to widen his media monopoly by buying sky outright, wants Jeremy in?
You think the Barclay brothers, with their offshore residencies, want him in?
You think Philip Green, who stole all the pensions from BHS workers and claims his wife owns Top Shop because she lives in Monaco, wants Corbyn in?
You think the politicians, both Labour and Tory, with their second homes and alcohol paid for by us, want him in?
You think Starbucks, paying near zero tax, wants him in?
You think bankers, with their multi million pound bonuses, want him in?

And do you think they don’t have contact with May? Or with the media? You honestly think that these millionaires and billionaires are the sort of people that go “ah well, easy come easy go, it was nice while it lasted”?? I wouldn’t be if my personal fortune was at risk, I’d be straight on the phone to Theresa May or Rupert Murdoch demanding this gets sorted immediately.

Because here’s a man, a politician that doesn’t lie and can’t lie. He could have said whatever would get him votes anytime he wanted but he hasn’t. He lives in a normal house like us and uses the bus just like us. He’s fought for justice and peace for nearly 40 years. He has no career ambitions. And his seat is untouchable. That’s one of the greatest testimonies. No one comes close to removing him from his constituency, election after election.

His Manifesto is fully costed. It all adds up, yes there’s some borrowing but that’s just to renationalise the railway, you know we already subsidise them and they make profit yeah? One more time… WE subsidise the railway companies and they walk away with a profit, just try and grasp the level of piss taking going on there.

Unlike the Tory manifesto with a £9 billion hole, their figures don’t even add up.

And it benefits all of us, young, old, working, disabled, everyone. The only people it hurts are the establishment, the rich, the bankers, the top 5% highest earners.

Good, screw them, it’s long overdue. #VoteLabour #ForTheManyNotTheFew !

Wonderful words that'll go over the heads of so many people

You know, there's a certain irony in that a lot of the electorate who will have voted to leave the EU as a 'protest' against the establishment (and also inadvertently the damaging effects of 30 years of neoliberalism), are the same people who are now about to elect a neoliberal establishment party, to perpetuate the same policies that led in part to Brexit in the first place. You couldn't write it.

The problem is of course what happens when (supposed) cuts to immigration doesn't solve the housing crisis, and doesn't put people back to work or make people better off, where do we go then? Do people finally wake up and realise it's been austerity all along? Or do we lurch further to the right, pursuing more politics of fear, more divide and conquer? It's frightening.

[Brother Leon]

The fact it's even a conversation is an embarrassment for Theresa May and her party. It was a mere formality and she knew it when she called the election. All that's happened is her incompetence has been highlighted.