UK General election June 8 2017

[Denver]

Mrs Strong and Stable shouldn't have made her take all the bullets then!

He knew.

Maybe he should focus on Hamas rather then running the country as we know which one he favours

[Denver]

Corbyn is just a terrorist sympathiser as proven with his links to Hamas and IRA

[Scarlett.]

The SNP hatred makes me laugh, the SNP is a Scottish party who represent Scotland, they're not here to please either Labour or Tory voters, you don't like them? Tough titties, they're standing up for Scottish people, giving them a voice.

[Scarlett.]

Corbyn is just a terrorist sympathiser as proven with his links to Hamas and IRA

Let's just ignore this Tory Councillor, and pretend the Tories are squeaky clean when it comes to the IRA
https://tompride.files.wordpress.com/2017/05/tory-ira.png

[reece(:]

Corbyn is just a terrorist sympathiser as proven with his links to Hamas and IRA

A tired repetitive argument

[Denver]

A tired repetitive argument

He is great freinds with hamas

[DemolitionRed]

I agree with Murphy's (a top economist ) tweet to Rudd

"I have news for Amber Rudd: There is a magic money tree. it created the £345 billion used to fund QE, entirely without cost to the tax payer .

He's obviously really pissed off. I mean, this economist doesn't even support Corbyn. He went on to say:

" Amber Rudd revealed a real lack of economic knowledge tonight. Monopoly has a fixed stock of money but the real economy hasn't"

and

"I have more news for Amber Rudd. The record is, the Tories always borrow more than Labour and 70 years of data prove it"

Those tweets are very popular by those who understand economics. Unfortunately most people don't and so Rudds words could be damaging. Personally I think its concerning that so many people don't understand the most basic economic facts.

[DemolitionRed]

Corbyn is just a terrorist sympathiser as proven with his links to Hamas and IRA

Stop copying the trash tabloids and try educating yourself about your statement. I'm sure it would alarm you to discover just how wrong you are but these sort of headlines have brainwashed people. Mud sticks and its time to stop slinging it.

[King Gizzard]

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[Denver]

Stop copying the trash tabloids and try educating yourself about your statement. I'm sure it would alarm you to discover just how wrong you are but these sort of headlines have brainwashed people. Mud sticks and its time to stop slinging it.

You must of missed all the pictures he had taken with them

[smudgie]

You must of missed all the pictures he had taken with them

Aye, and the apology from McDonnell, and delightful Dianne dropping him in it last Sunday:joker:

[Kazanne]

Stop copying the trash tabloids and try educating yourself about your statement. I'm sure it would alarm you to discover just how wrong you are but these sort of headlines have brainwashed people. Mud sticks and its time to stop slinging it.

Oh come on,they wouldn't be all saying it unless there was an element of truth in it,Hamas was even thrown at him in the live debate,no deniels from him,I think the only ones being brainwashed are those who think his meetings were tea for two and scones.

[Denver]

Oh come on,they wouldn't be all saying it unless there was an element of truth in it,Hamas was even thrown at him in the live debate,no deniels from him,I think the only ones being brainwashed are those who think his meetings were tea for two and scones.

:clap1:

[Brother Leon]

Oh come on,they wouldn't be all saying it unless there was an element of truth in it,Hamas was even thrown at him in the live debate,no deniels from him,I think the only ones being brainwashed are those who think his meetings were tea for two and scones.

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/article_small/public/thumbnails/image/2016/09/05/07/maysaudiarabia.jpg

Here is Theresa May discussing how many Yemeni children will be killed this week with her buddies. No tea or scones though..

[joeysteele]

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/article_small/public/thumbnails/image/2016/09/05/07/maysaudiarabia.jpg

Here is Theresa May discussing how many Yemeni children will be killed this week with her buddies. No tea or scones though..


Good one Brother Leon.
You may need to do more as all the Cons dubious things get whitewashed over while the slightest sniff of a Labour one is jumped on with ferocious eagerness.

I've given up myself so astounded I am at some but good luck and a strong point made as well.
The Saudis are certainly as bad if not worse than others, yet we continue to sell arms to them.

Thereby making money on the backs of innocent lives being brutally taken

[King Gizzard]

The Saudis are certainly as bad if not worse than others,m

Much worse

[DemolitionRed]

You must of missed all the pictures he had taken with them

And if you had been keeping an eye on British politics you would know exactly why he was stood with them. You must of missed that bit.

[DemolitionRed]

The only denial he made in the debate was being friends with Hamas. This was all part of a peace strategy and you know what? sitting round a table with the enemy is something politicians have been doing for a very long time... they call it, "being strategic"

[joeysteele]

Much worse

I agree Nathan 100%.

[DemolitionRed]

And if you want to talk about best buddies, start with Cameron and Bibi.

[Withano]

I couldn't bring myself to give this its own thread but this is hilarious and painful all at once

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-picks-arguments-tory-strength-economy/

[DemolitionRed]

I couldn't bring myself to give this its own thread but this is hilarious and painful all at once

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/james-picks-arguments-tory-strength-economy/

I could listen to these debates all day long!

[Jack_]

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What the ****ing hell is this? How the **** is she getting away with this ****? Why the **** are the media allowing our Prime Minister to actively avoid them? Why the **** are the electorate about to return this **** with a landslide majority? What the actual ****ing **** is ****ing going on here?

[Wizard.]

870375815359410176

870403430329835520

870403682470432768

What the ****ing hell is this? How the **** is she getting away with this ****? Why the **** are the media allowing our Prime Minister to actively avoid them? Why the **** are the electorate about to return this **** with a landslide majority? What the actual ****ing **** is ****ing going on here?

Wow chill

[Jack_]

No, sorry. If this is even remotely true, it shows an appalling amount of contempt and arrogance towards the electorate. Our Prime Minister is actively avoiding her duty of having to defend her record and debate her policies with the media. It's straight out of the Donald Trump playbook.

People can and will try all they like to excuse this with more bull**** reasons, but there are no excuses. End of discussion.

[Wizard.]

Today. 7 days. Potatoe. Potato. The landslide is COMING hold on to your wigs

870384517202182146

[Jack_]

You must know very little about politics if you think 362 seats is a 'landslide', if anything there will be serious questions raised about the point of this election and her position as leader given the majority was supposed to be much larger than that

It'll actually be around 430 though, so I wouldn't worry. The British electorate love killing foxes and the disabled

[Greg!]

Today. 7 days. Potatoe. Potato. The landslide is COMING hold on to your wigs

870384517202182146

Glad someone's perched for mass fox cullings, kids going hungry and oldies freezing to death.

[Greg!]

ANYWAY my prediction is that there is a 50% chance Tezza won't be prime minister on the 9th of June, either because of a hung parliament or a reduced/small majority for the tories which forces ha to resign.

[Jack_]

Don't get your hopes up. The same thing happened in 2015, with everyone expecting a hung parliament. In less than a week, Big Ben is going to strike ten o'clock and David Dimbleby is going to sound the death-knell for this country as another horrifying exit poll is revealed.

I don't trust the British electorate one bit, and neither should anyone else.

[Greg!]

Yeah I think there will sadly be another Tory majority but I don't think it'll be as big as a lot of people think.

Wow I used the word 'think' a lot in that sentence.

[reece(:]

Pathetic at her skipping all the radio interviews :bored:

[Jack_]

A lot of the polls are working under the assumption that there's going to be an increased youth turnout, and I'm sceptical about that materialising. The gap closing mobilises shy Tories to actually vote, and in Labour marginals where the combined UKIP/Tory vote of 2015 is greater will be enough to see a number of seats fall by the wayside.

Believe me, it's going to be a disaster.

[Jack_]

Pathetic at her skipping all the radio interviews :bored:

I find it reprehensible that she's going to get away with it. This woman could literally announce the extermination of anyone earning under £80k per annum and the turkeys would still turn up under the guise of "well at least it'll be a strong and stable execution!".

There is nothing that her or her party could do that will make people wake up and realise what's going on here. The last week on this forum has taught me that. Two words. Invisibility. Cloak.

[Wizard.]

I find it reprehensible that she's going to get away with it. This woman could literally announce the extermination of anyone earning under £80k per annum and the turkeys would still turn up under the guise of "well at least it'll be a strong and stable execution!".

There is nothing that her or her party could do that will make people wake up and realise what's going on here. The last week on this forum has taught me that. Two words. Invisibility. Cloak.

People have heard what she's had to say so what's the point of repeating it in radio interviews? She's on Question Time tonight so if you're that desperate to hear from her then you can then. Jeremy can do as many interviews about his allotment and how he grows his own veg or how porridge sustains him throughout the day but nobodys going to change their minds either way.

[Wizard.]

Glad someone's perched for mass fox cullings, kids going hungry and oldies freezing to death.

Yeah I don't know where people get the idea from that people who vote Conservative really want that. But if it fits the narrative of good vs evil you do you.

[Brother Leon]

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She's even too scared to go on the Emma Barnett show who embarrassingly worships her. :laugh:

[Greg!]

Yeah I don't know where people get the idea from that people who vote Conservative really want that. But if it fits the narrative of good vs evil you do you.

If you really don't "want that" then you shouldn't vote for the tories because that is literally what their policies are.

[Jack_]

People have heard what she's had to say so what's the point of repeating it in radio interviews? She's on Question Time tonight so if you're that desperate to hear from her then you can then. Jeremy can do as many interviews about his allotment and how he grows his own veg or how porridge sustains him throughout the day but nobodys going to change their minds either way.

Because she's the PM, and it is her duty to attend media appearances at the best of times, let alone during a general election campaign she ****ing asked for (despite saying she wouldn't). It is her duty to be scrutinised. It is her duty to defend her record, not have her cronies do it for her whilst pretending to be 'talking to voters on the doorstep' - when she isn't even doing that.

Whether campaigns have any sway on voters or not (and I'm not sure they do) is by the by, she is the Prime Minister, and she needs to be confronting the media, not running away from them. It's no coincidence that what started out as relatively placid press corps are slowly turning into hostile ones, with journalists overheard saying 'she never answers questions' and even Laura Kuenssberg mocking her.

[Greg!]

People have heard what she's had to say so what's the point of repeating it in radio interviews? She's on Question Time tonight so if you're that desperate to hear from her then you can then. Jeremy can do as many interviews about his allotment and how he grows his own veg or how porridge sustains him throughout the day but nobodys going to change their minds either way.

She wasn't on question time tonight btw

[Sticks]

Theresa does not need to attend any interview or send anyone in her place

She has a secret weapon to get her the 200+ thumping majority, Jeremy Corbyn

The best quality Theresa has, is she is not Jeremy Corbyn...

or Ed Milliband...

[lewis111]

Yeah I don't know where people get the idea from that people who vote Conservative really want that. But if it fits the narrative of good vs evil you do you.

Well that's what they are voting for. If they didn't want that they'd vote another party surely

[Kazanne]

People have heard what she's had to say so what's the point of repeating it in radio interviews? She's on Question Time tonight so if you're that desperate to hear from her then you can then. Jeremy can do as many interviews about his allotment and how he grows his own veg or how porridge sustains him throughout the day but nobodys going to change their minds either way.

Yep,no dramatics with this post ,just straight to the point truthful.:wavey:

[Kazanne]

Well that's what they are voting for. If they didn't want that they'd vote another party surely

Do you REALLY think it's that simple? some of TM policies are dire,so Corbyn must be worse for people to still want to vote for her,sometimes you have to read between the lines

[joeysteele]

I find it reprehensible that she's going to get away with it. This woman could literally announce the extermination of anyone earning under £80k per annum and the turkeys would still turn up under the guise of "well at least it'll be a strong and stable execution!".

There is nothing that her or her party could do that will make people wake up and realise what's going on here. The last week on this forum has taught me that. Two words. Invisibility. Cloak.

All brilliant posting from you on this page Jack_

I've said a few times the near despair I now feel as to the electorate.
Your comment above re extermination while I guess said to sensationalise,I do feel that in fact it would not even alter the thinking of supporters of this truly cruel,deceitful,lying and rotten from the core woman.

They will deny all that's bad and gloss over it, and jump in to defend the most heartless and vague discriminatory policies she presents.
I knew this would be a truly bad election,so soon after the referendum last year.

The massive endless intolerance of anything Labour or indeed others propose as being pie in the sky.
While ignoring the last 7 years of failure and hard austerity from this Party.
As you point out shows she would likely get away with anything she proposes,no matter how wrong or cruel that is,to animal or human.
Remember too,this hunting bill is a hunting bill to bring back hunting with dogs.
What else will it contain.

If Labour were planning a policy like that it would be right being shunned and near hated for even just thinking of bringing it back.

No wonder she dare not debate live with other leaders directly.
Once interrupted she would show more of her rotten thinking and deceit.

She was one deriding Brown for dragging his heels on debating with leaders in the 2010 election.
What a total hypocrite.
I just despair, the UK seems eager to walk the destruction path allowing less than 50% of those who vote to take them down that road too.

Totally sad and no hope of better to come at all.

[Ronald.]

Jeremy can do as many interviews about his allotment and how he grows his own veg or how porridge sustains him throughout the day but nobodys going to change their minds either way.

Because he does that in every interview...

Don't get your hopes up. The same thing happened in 2015, with everyone expecting a hung parliament. In less than a week, Big Ben is going to strike ten o'clock and David Dimbleby is going to sound the death-knell for this country as another horrifying exit poll is revealed.

I don't trust the British electorate one bit, and neither should anyone else.

I think you're right - too many fools. R.

[Ronald.]

I'm surprised everyone doesn't hate each other on here during election period ha ha. R.

[Kizzy]

Oh I haven't got time for interviews, I have brexit to focus on.... Why did you call an election then? :/

[joeysteele]

I'm surprised everyone doesn't hate each other on here during election period ha ha. R.

I've sadly had my eyes opened the last few days in ways I didn't expect.

[Wizard.]

If you really don't "want that" then you shouldn't vote for the tories because that is literally what their policies are.

It's not "literally" what their policies are I suggest you read their manifesto. I've read Labours manifesto and I'm not making up lies about their policies.

Because she's the PM, and it is her duty to attend media appearances at the best of times, let alone during a general election campaign she ****ing asked for (despite saying she wouldn't). It is her duty to be scrutinised. It is her duty to defend her record, not have her cronies do it for her whilst pretending to be 'talking to voters on the doorstep' - when she isn't even doing that.

Whether campaigns have any sway on voters or not (and I'm not sure they do) is by the by, she is the Prime Minister, and she needs to be confronting the media, not running away from them. It's no coincidence that what started out as relatively placid press corps are slowly turning into hostile ones, with journalists overheard saying 'she never answers questions' and even Laura Kuenssberg mocking her.

She literally was on Sky taking questions from the audience on Monday and is on Question Time tonight - she doesn't HAVE to do media every single day, you do realise the only reason Jeremy does that is because he isn't ahead in the polls and needs as much attention as possible.

She wasn't on question time tonight btw

I meant tonight at 8:30pm

Well that's what they are voting for. If they didn't want that they'd vote another party surely

People know under are current system you vote for Labour or the Conservatives because voting anything else won't have an impact on who runs the country so they choose who they most want in government and it baffles me how a lot of people on here don't seem to grasp the fact that the left wing parties dominate Westminster therefore all their votes are split so all this "how the hell do the Tories win" well there's your answer.

[AnnieK]

Oh I haven't got time for interviews, I have brexit to focus on.... Why did you call an election then? :/

This is my main concern with this election.....I am worried why exactly it was called with the negotiations still going on.

[Kizzy]

Maybe she presumed it would be an easy ride? Maybe to detract media focus from her scuppering climate deals at the G7? Who knows :/

[AnnieK]

I think I have finally decided where my vote is going. Not that it makes an awful lot of difference as my local seat has been a safe seat forever and so its highly unlikely that anything will change there but I can finally feel good about my decision (I think lol)

[Greg!]

It's not "literally" what their policies are I suggest you read their manifesto. I've read Labours manifesto and I'm not making up lies about their policies.


So you're denying that Theresa May wants to bring back fox hunting, take away free school meals and remove winter fuel allowance? Wow.

[Greg!]

I think I have finally decided where my vote is going. Not that it makes an awful lot of difference as my local seat has been a safe seat forever and so its highly unlikely that anything will change there but I can finally feel good about my decision (I think lol)

Spill the beans!

[Kizzy]

I think I have finally decided where my vote is going. Not that it makes an awful lot of difference as my local seat has been a safe seat forever and so its highly unlikely that anything will change there but I can finally feel good about my decision (I think lol)

Welcome to Corbynville your complimentary fruit basket is in your room ;)

[Kazanne]

So you're denying that Theresa May wants to bring back fox hunting, take away free school meals and remove winter fuel allowance? Wow.

Well that's not really accurate it ? She is NOT bringing fox hunting back herself,she is putting it to a vote (which I disagree with) but lets be accurate,hopefully the ministers will keep the ban and more importantly enforce it better than it is now as it still goes on ,free school meals is not a done deal, plus it was said they were being replaced by free breakfasts which some say is a more important meal,but nothing set in stone yet as for winter fuel it will NOT be removed for those that need it only for wealthy pensioners who don't need it and don't want it,so yes WOW indeed.

[Kizzy]

She was never going to bring it back because she can't bring it back.... that statement on fox hunting was more about asserting where her loyalties lie, that was screamingly obvious.

[joeysteele]

Well that's not really accurate it ? She is NOT bringing fox hunting back herself,she is putting it to a vote (which I disagree with) but lets be accurate,hopefully the ministers will keep the ban and more importantly enforce it better than it is now as it still goes on ,free school meals is not a done deal, plus it was said they were being replaced by free breakfasts which some say is a more important meal,but nothing set in stone yet as for winter fuel it will NOT be removed for those that need it only for wealthy pensioners who don't need it and don't want it,so yes WOW indeed.

Con MP s will vote hunting back,ignore that fact all you like,the Cons will do it for the hunting lobbyists.
This is Mrs May's manifesto, she has stated she supports this type of hunting and will support the bill.
It will be passed,I would bet my house on that,would you be so sure to bet yours it won't be back.
The Cons have always been against this ban.

This vote is not to ban it for good either.
Go ahead and even defend this vile woman on this.

As to winter fuel,she has not even indicated how it will be means tested,what level of income will be the cut off point nor will she say how many millions of pensioners will be affected.
She is saying everyone has to wait to learn until after the election.
Deceit and lies is all she's good for and if she wins a bigger majority next week hunting with dogs will be voted back.

You can turn a blind eye to that all you like but for me anyone who wants to bring this hunting back or would even try to bring it back, are not worth anything really.
My.mind has never changed towards such vile thinking people and it never will change either.

[joeysteele]

So you're denying that Theresa May wants to bring back fox hunting, take away free school meals and remove winter fuel allowance? Wow.

With only around 170 MPs when the vote to ban hunting with dogs was put to Parliament by Labour.
Only 6 Conservative voted in favour.

Yet there are people who think Con MPs will not support bringing it back now.
I honestly give up but anyone really against this hunting that votes Conservative should hang their heads in shame when it is voted back by the Con MPs.

They won't be able to complain or see it banned again after that for sure.
So I'll have no sympathy for any crocodile tears once they've given Mrs May the opening to get this hunting bill passed.
100% it will be, I've rarely been sure of anything as,I am as to that.

People have been clearly warned and cannot ever say they weren't.once it's done.

[smudgie]

I'm surprised everyone doesn't hate each other on here during election period ha ha. R.

It surprises me how people can take it as a personal affront that someone has a difference of opinion:joker:

[Brother Leon]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/02/i-dont-think-he-needs-my-advice-bernie-sanders-applauds-jeremy-corbyn

Real recognise Real :worship:

[smudgie]

Well that's not really accurate it ? She is NOT bringing fox hunting back herself,she is putting it to a vote (which I disagree with) but lets be accurate,hopefully the ministers will keep the ban and more importantly enforce it better than it is now as it still goes on ,free school meals is not a done deal, plus it was said they were being replaced by free breakfasts which some say is a more important meal,but nothing set in stone yet as for winter fuel it will NOT be removed for those that need it only for wealthy pensioners who don't need it and don't want it,so yes WOW indeed.

Yes, very accurately put Kaz.
Free school meals are not being stopped, only stopped for those who can afford to pay for their own, same as the winter fuel payment.
Nothing like a bit of spin is there:laugh::laugh:

[AnnieK]

Con MP s will vote hunting back,ignore that fact all you like,the Cons will do it for the hunting lobbyists.
This is Mrs May's manifesto, she has stated she supports this type of hunting and will support the bill.
It will be passed,I would bet my house on that,would you be so sure to bet yours it won't be back.
The Cons have always been against this ban.

This vote is not to ban it for good either.
Go ahead and even defend this vile woman on this.

As to winter fuel,she has not even indicated how it will be means tested,what level of income will be the cut off point nor will she say how many millions of pensioners will be affected.
She is saying everyone has to wait to learn until after the election.
Deceit and lies is all she's good for and if she wins a bigger majority next week hunting with dogs will be voted back.

You can turn a blind eye to that all you like but for me anyone who wants to bring this hunting back or would even try to bring it back, are not worth anything really.
My.mind has never changed towards such vile thinking people and it never will change either.

Are you doing any canvassing this time Joey? I found it interesting to hear your stories of meeting people during the last election. Are you finding any different opinions this time?

[Kazanne]

It surprises me how people can take it as a personal affront that someone has a difference of opinion:joker:

This^ no need for the hostility sometimes but I suppose like religion it is a passionate subject.:wavey:

[Kazanne]

Lets be honest the whole Labour campaign has been a con , promising things they cannot afford without huge extra borrowing , targetting the young and basically bribing them with promises of free tuition , you have to hold your hands up and say he has mastered the art of deception , and it still amazes me that somehow people think they will be better off , Labour are going to tax all the rich and put it in to my pocket , yeah right , deluded or what? As the saying goes with Labour, A bunch of Rich people, convincing poor people, to vote for rich people, by telling poor people, it is other rich people who are making them poor , I'm only surprised he hasnt offered a Free Pint and a Big Mac Meal as part of the deal .

[joeysteele]

Are you doing any canvassing this time Joey? I found it interesting to hear your stories of meeting people during the last election. Are you finding any different opinions this time?

Yes Annie,although I feel slightly hypocritical as I leave the UK in the Autumn but only to Ireland.

I love meeting people, especially much older people I love hearing their stories of life and learning lots from them b

I have actually found it easier this time,last time had Miliband promised an EU referendum too,it would have been easier.
I am finding,even with older people the re nationalisation plans of Labour very popular.

Particularly as to energy and water, the majority of people I have canvassed, are sick of water costs rising year on year.
However I do find a Corbyn factor, people either really like him or loathe him.

I can't get a feel as to real voting intention,then again last time I was sure Labour would be the largest party.
The seats the year I canvassed in a team with in 2015,only one didn't go Labour.
This time I have helped canvassed in less but do get a feeling of change thankfully, as it looked hopeless at the start.

The foxhunting issue was a near godsend,people are rightly sickened by that and I do find frustration with Mrs May, that she is saying really nothing as to detail of policy.

On a rainy day though, it was great to this time only be leafleting but this guy opened his door and asked us to share coffee with him.
He was voting UKIP and loved country music,.so strummed out Don Williams, I recall a gypsy woman for us.

A great moment and things like that make canvassing worthwhile.
Had far less nastiness this time though, although one Street we were on, had a Conservative sticker in the window,as we headed towards the house, put out through the letter box was a note saying nothing from Labour wanted.
I myself wouldn't have put leaflet in anyway, Party funds are precious and need to be used wisely.:joker:

Thanks for asking Annie,it's been nice recalling those little things that have happened so far.

[Brother Leon]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/02/i-dont-think-he-needs-my-advice-bernie-sanders-applauds-jeremy-corbyn

real recognise real :worship:

870612468795658240

[DemolitionRed]

870612468795658240

So here's the man who was unknown in the political world before the last American election and who went on to win ten states in America.

Thanks for that Brother Leon, its little snips like this that make my day.

[joeysteele]

Lets be honest the whole Labour campaign has been a con , promising things they cannot afford without huge extra borrowing , targetting the young and basically bribing them with promises of free tuition , you have to hold your hands up and say he has mastered the art of deception , and it still amazes me that somehow people think they will be better off , Labour are going to tax all the rich and put it in to my pocket , yeah right , deluded or what? As the saying goes with Labour, A bunch of Rich people, convincing poor people, to vote for rich people, by telling poor people, it is other rich people who are making them poor , I'm only surprised he hasnt offered a Free Pint and a Big Mac Meal as part of the deal .

That whole post is wrong,Labour have identified the taxes that will rise and what those tax riseos will pay for.

What is a con is your party,removing it's promise to not raise taxes but not saying if taxes will rise under them such as national insurance.
Another Con is saying more will go to the NHS but not saying where that extra will be coming from.

What is a con is saying pensioners extras are going to be means tested bit not saying how, what income level will be the cut off point, or how many pensioners will be affected either.
What is a con is bringing in a social care plan, then already doctoring it to have a cap but not tell anyone the value of said cap.

In other words asking for blank cheques, well you give her that blank cheque.
I am totally glad I never will be one that will.

Also wrong Labour have said they will need to borrow, for infrastructure and their re nationalisation plans as and when it is more prudent to do so.

This your govt is borrowing all the time, do you even know they are or what plans they have to borrow and how much in the next 5 years.
Because for sure no else knows.

[smudgie]

Lets be honest the whole Labour campaign has been a con , promising things they cannot afford without huge extra borrowing , targetting the young and basically bribing them with promises of free tuition , you have to hold your hands up and say he has mastered the art of deception , and it still amazes me that somehow people think they will be better off , Labour are going to tax all the rich and put it in to my pocket , yeah right , deluded or what? As the saying goes with Labour, A bunch of Rich people, convincing poor people, to vote for rich people, by telling poor people, it is other rich people who are making them poor , I'm only surprised he hasnt offered a Free Pint and a Big Mac Meal as part of the deal .

Haha, might be a queue at the polling stations lining up for the bribe.:joker:

[joeysteele]

Oh I haven't got time for interviews, I have brexit to focus on.... Why did you call an election then? :/

Exactly, she won't do live debates,although I read today she refused to do Woman's hour.

It is the challenging she doesn't want as she won't have time to think.
Her lies and deceit would be more evident.
She'd rather set speeches and invited audience meetings.

Like on QT she will be alone with a presenter and the audience.
She hasn't the courage to do live debate with other leaders as more scrutiny would be pressed for.
She knows she could get tripped up and be seen to.

[DemolitionRed]

This your govt is borrowing all the time, do you even know they are or what plans they have to borrow and how much in the next 5 years.
Because for sure no else knows.

Sorry for fragmenting your post Joey but I only wanted to reply to this ^

We need to be talking about the elephant in the room which is, if the source of growth in this country continues to be private debt consumption led growth and not investment led growth we are not sailing that ship in the right direction. The ratio of private debt to disposable income is back to crisis level, so we need to stop this false dilemma of “should we spend on the disabled or should we spend on infrastructure”.

You can deregulate until the cows come home and you can do the same with cutting taxes but if a business opens its door and nobody comes in, they are not going to hire and invest. Without sales there is no incentive for anybody to hire a worker or invest in new machinery. Demand drives supply.
What we are doing today is, we are making spending the enemy in an economy that runs on sales... the only thing that will grow our GDP

We have always had a deficit. The deficit is now back to what it was before the crisis which means we haven’t got a deficit that is abnormal for Britain. Its stands at about 3 percent of national output which is less than France, so why is our government still telling us that something that’s good for the individual is bad for the economy? it doesn't add up.

[DemolitionRed]

Its been reinforced time and time again, not just by the British government, that we are being crippled by debt. Its no wonder we are angry about these things because everyone is telling us we should be. Its immoral, its burdening the next generation, its robbing our future… but its like listening to a bunch of dodo’s who talk about the economy in a way that if you stop and think about it, it really doesn’t make any sense at all. When our government tell us that we must lower the deficit in order to maintain a healthy economy, we, the people believe we have a safe government and someone who’s going to pull us out of this pool.

It is easier to fool people than convince them that they have been fooled- Mark Twain.

[Kizzy]

mgEB0lO61u0

[DemolitionRed]

I've already seen this one. Its a good video!

[reece(:]

Just watched Farron on Andrew Neils interview, ABSOLUTE CARCRASH!

[smudgie]

Just watched Farron on Andrew Neils interview, ABSOLUTE CARCRASH!

:laugh::laugh: thank heavens he has no chance.
Obnoxious twunt.

[MTVN]

"Every few years, the London Labour MP Jeremy Corbyn indulges his romantic support for Irish republicans by using his parliamentary privileges to give them a publicity platform. These occasions always also provide a showcase for Mr Corbyn’s abiding qualities: his lack of wider political and moral judgment, his predilection for gesture politics, his insensitivity to the feelings of most Londoners and his indifference to the policies of his party… Mr Corbyn’s actions do not advance the cause of peace in Northern Ireland and are not seriously intended to do so. It is surprising that a politician as clever and important as the Sinn Fein leader should be bothered with him. Grown-up people ought to keep this childish sideshow in perspective. Mr Corbyn is a fool, and a fool whom the Labour Party would probably be better off without."

The Guardian in 1996

Today they endorsed that fool for Prime Minister

[DemolitionRed]

"Every few years, the London Labour MP Jeremy Corbyn indulges his romantic support for Irish republicans by using his parliamentary privileges to give them a publicity platform. These occasions always also provide a showcase for Mr Corbyn’s abiding qualities: his lack of wider political and moral judgment, his predilection for gesture politics, his insensitivity to the feelings of most Londoners and his indifference to the policies of his party… Mr Corbyn’s actions do not advance the cause of peace in Northern Ireland and are not seriously intended to do so. It is surprising that a politician as clever and important as the Sinn Fein leader should be bothered with him. Grown-up people ought to keep this childish sideshow in perspective. Mr Corbyn is a fool, and a fool whom the Labour Party would probably be better off without."

The Guardian in 1996

Today they endorsed that fool for Prime Minister

Yeah well, that was a journalists opinion 21 years ago. Todays Guardian journalist has this to say:

“Mr Corbyn unquestionably has his flaws. Many see him as a fluke, a fringe candidate who stole the Labour leadership while the rest of his party was asleep. In parliament he failed to reach beyond his faction. He is not fluent on the issues raised by a modern, sophisticated digital economy. His record of protest explains why some struggle to see him as prime minister.

But Labour’s leader has had a good campaign. He has been energetic and effective on the stump, comfortable in his own skin and in the presence of others. He clearly likes people and is interested in them. He has generated an unfamiliar sense of the possible; once again, people are excited by politics. Most pundits think the voters will repudiate Mr Corbyn’s Labour party. They may do so. But Mr Corbyn has shown that the party might be the start of something big rather than the last gasp of something small. On 8 June, Labour deserves our vote.”

[reece(:]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/02/i-dont-think-he-needs-my-advice-bernie-sanders-applauds-jeremy-corbyn

Real recognise Real :worship:

Wow Bernie, another legend in politics.

[joeysteele]

Yeah well, that was a journalists opinion 21 years ago. Todays Guardian journalist has this to say:

“Mr Corbyn unquestionably has his flaws. Many see him as a fluke, a fringe candidate who stole the Labour leadership while the rest of his party was asleep. In parliament he failed to reach beyond his faction. He is not fluent on the issues raised by a modern, sophisticated digital economy. His record of protest explains why some struggle to see him as prime minister.

But Labour’s leader has had a good campaign. He has been energetic and effective on the stump, comfortable in his own skin and in the presence of others. He clearly likes people and is interested in them. He has generated an unfamiliar sense of the possible; once again, people are excited by politics. Most pundits think the voters will repudiate Mr Corbyn’s Labour party. They may do so. But Mr Corbyn has shown that the party might be the start of something big rather than the last gasp of something small. On 8 June, Labour deserves our vote.”

I far prefer the present view obviously.

[Jack_]

All brilliant posting from you on this page Jack_

I've said a few times the near despair I now feel as to the electorate.
Your comment above re extermination while I guess said to sensationalise,I do feel that in fact it would not even alter the thinking of supporters of this truly cruel,deceitful,lying and rotten from the core woman.

They will deny all that's bad and gloss over it, and jump in to defend the most heartless and vague discriminatory policies she presents.
I knew this would be a truly bad election,so soon after the referendum last year.

The massive endless intolerance of anything Labour or indeed others propose as being pie in the sky.
While ignoring the last 7 years of failure and hard austerity from this Party.
As you point out shows she would likely get away with anything she proposes,no matter how wrong or cruel that is,to animal or human.
Remember too,this hunting bill is a hunting bill to bring back hunting with dogs.
What else will it contain.

If Labour were planning a policy like that it would be right being shunned and near hated for even just thinking of bringing it back.

No wonder she dare not debate live with other leaders directly.
Once interrupted she would show more of her rotten thinking and deceit.

She was one deriding Brown for dragging his heels on debating with leaders in the 2010 election.
What a total hypocrite.
I just despair, the UK seems eager to walk the destruction path allowing less than 50% of those who vote to take them down that road too.

Totally sad and no hope of better to come at all.

You're absolutely right, I just feel so despondent about it all. It doesn't matter what facts or evidence people are presented with, or no matter how well researched it is, it just goes over their heads. The Conservatives can literally do and say anything they like, and they will get away with it. I find it astounding.

We are sleepwalking into a very dark, bleak future, and for what? 'Strong and stable', 'my team', 'no deal is better than a bad deal', 'Brexit means Brexit'. The contempt I have for the electorate has never been stronger, you're doing the right thing moving away and I wish you all the best in doing so. I'd love to do the same, the ironic thing is the Tories are about to make it more difficult for me to leave home, let alone abroad. Sigh.

[Brillopad]

Yeah well, that was a journalists opinion 21 years ago. Todays Guardian journalist has this to say:

“Mr Corbyn unquestionably has his flaws. Many see him as a fluke, a fringe candidate who stole the Labour leadership while the rest of his party was asleep. In parliament he failed to reach beyond his faction. He is not fluent on the issues raised by a modern, sophisticated digital economy. His record of protest explains why some struggle to see him as prime minister.

But Labour’s leader has had a good campaign. He has been energetic and effective on the stump, comfortable in his own skin and in the presence of others. He clearly likes people and is interested in them. He has generated an unfamiliar sense of the possible; once again, people are excited by politics. Most pundits think the voters will repudiate Mr Corbyn’s Labour party. They may do so. But Mr Corbyn has shown that the party might be the start of something big rather than the last gasp of something small. On 8 June, Labour deserves our vote.”

Oh he's comfortable in his own skin and is good at telling stories to the disenfranchised - let's make him PM then. :joker:

[DemolitionRed]

You're absolutely right, I just feel so despondent about it all. It doesn't matter what facts or evidence people are presented with, or no matter how well researched it is, it just goes over their heads. The Conservatives can literally do and say anything they like, and they will get away with it. I find it astounding.

We are sleepwalking into a very dark, bleak future, and for what? 'Strong and stable', 'my team', 'no deal is better than a bad deal', 'Brexit means Brexit'. The contempt I have for the electorate has never been stronger, you're doing the right thing moving away and I wish you all the best in doing so. I'd love to do the same, the ironic thing is the Tories are about to make it more difficult for me to leave home, let alone abroad. Sigh.

"Never get mad at someone for being who they've always been. Be upset with yourself for not coming to terms with it sooner." Have no expectations of others or you're going to let politics get you down. I know, I've been to that place all too often and its honestly not worth it. Just keep on being passionate about your beliefs and remember, things will change and things will get better.

[Kizzy]

Wise words DR thank you here in Yorkshire we have a saying ' Don't let the bastards grind you down'... I try to live by that.

[Kizzy]

Oh he's comfortable in his own skin and is good at telling stories to the disenfranchised - let's make him PM then. :joker:

Am I disenfranchised? What do the conservatives do for the disenfranchised, except seek to marginalise them further?

[joeysteele]

One thing about this election is where is the Chancellor.
I cannot recall any election I've watched where the Chancellor is not at the forefront of things.

Is this because Philip Hammond really intends on raising national insurance,as he tried to in the budget but then had to shelve.

Is he likely to let that slip out especially since the Cons have now removed the guarantee of no income tax or national insurance rises.

[smudgie]

One thing about this election is where is the Chancellor.
I cannot recall any election I've watched where the Chancellor is not at the forefront of things.

Is this because Philip Hammond really intends on raising national insurance,as he tried to in the budget but then had to shelve.

Is he likely to let that slip out especially since the Cons have now removed the guarantee of no income tax or national insurance rises.

I would like to think he is working on this cap for social care.
As much as I will be voting Tory, I do think it's a bit much that the pensioners in particular are being left in the dark on this.

[Brother Leon]

870717882115772417

https://media.tenor.com/images/46dbb98888734ad3005dde9b1adaa06c/tenor.gif

[Brillopad]

870717882115772417

https://media.tenor.com/images/46dbb98888734ad3005dde9b1adaa06c/tenor.gif

It takes a bigger person to change their mind or to admit they got something wrong. Don't you know that.

Also the tories give Council tenants the chance to buy their property - which may be the only chance some people have of becoming home owners and passing some money/property to their children.

Labour would deny any council tenants that right. So anyone on here who supports Corbyn but has brought their Council house thanks to Tory policies is a big fat hypocrite. As long as they are alright Jack.

[Brother Leon]

It takes a bigger person to change their mind or to admit they got something wrong. Don't you know that.

Also the tories give Council tenants the chance to buy their property - which may be the only chance some people have of becoming home owners and passing some money/property to their children.

Labour would deny any council tenants that right. So anyone on here who supports Corbyn but has brought their Council house thanks to Tory policies is a big fat hypocrite. As long as they are alright Jack.

If it was a one off, sure. Constantly doing it is a sign of incompetence though :hee:

[Denver]

I thought this forum the independent was unreliable?

[DemolitionRed]

Wise words DR thank you here in Yorkshire we have a saying ' Don't let the bastards grind you down'... I try to live by that.

I prefer yours Kizzy :hee:

[Greg!]

Yougov still predicting a hung parliament. I'm not getting my hopes up but it's that's interesting.

[Withano]

Yougov still predicting a hung parliament. I'm not getting my hopes up but it's that's interesting.

Hmm, i was too a little while back because of the rate that labour was gaining popularity, but that seems to have steadied off a bit.

[MTVN]

No other pollsters are following Yougov so they're either going to look like geniuses in 5 days time or have their reputation in tatters

I'd be very surprised if the Tories end up with less than a 40 majority. Then again I also confidently predicted a Remain victory and that Labour would be the biggest party in 2015

[DemolitionRed]

There wouldn't be a problem with people buying their council house if the government were prepared to build more. The whole point of selling off social housing is to get rid of social housing. The thing about council housing is, its a home for life at a reasonable rent, unlike private rentals that can kick you out after six months or charge you for a new short term contract every six months.

The people who need social housing the most are the people who will lose out here. Its another U turn against the most needy.

[Withano]

Tbf though, most other pollsters ask ~2,000 people, yougov usually ask 50,000+

A lot of the yougov polls are closer than the other polls too

They either know something nobody else does, or they dont know nothing about nothing

[Brother Leon]

Torries will still win a majority, but not near what they would have expected with their timing of the snap election.

[King Gizzard]

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EKElCEfZRAc/WTK15R-rmWI/AAAAAAAAEkM/TWma1FM0ZSkkCc-Ofg1Iy5tzI-v7f_e9gCLcB/s1600/What%2Bkind%2Bof%2Bpeople%2BQuestion%2BTime.png

[Sticks]

I am still channelling 1983 - Massive majority for Thatcher, sorry Theresa..

[Kizzy]

What happened to you hippies...You used to be cool :idc:

[Wizard.]

I just watched some of the 1997 GE and it's funny how Labour spouted the exact same thing that Jeremy Corbyn does today - "we offer Politics of hope, not fear" well that might have worked back then but people aren't stupid and we know what 13 years of Labour rule did to our economy as John Major pointed at in his concession speech that the UK economy was in a healthy condition in 1997. Now 20 years later the tables have turned and it's going to be a crushing defeat for Labour.

[Cherie]

No other pollsters are following Yougov so they're either going to look like geniuses in 5 days time or have their reputation in tatters

I'd be very surprised if the Tories end up with less than a 40 majority. Then again I also confidently predicted a Remain victory and that Labour would be the biggest party in 2015

I predicted a Leave victory and knew the Miliband didn't have a hope in hell so....just maybe

[King Gizzard]

All because of a bacon sandwich

[Cherie]

All because of a bacon sandwich

The Ed Stone didn't really help either :laugh:

[Cherie]

Cameron did a better job of whipping up a fear about a coalition with the SNP as well, I think people are a bit more relaxed about that this time round for some reason.

[King Gizzard]

The Ed Stone didn't really help either :laugh:

yeah, just think most of the criticism he got that campaign was below the belt/pretty much bullying, pretty much the same tactic thats now being used on Corbs but he's dealing with it better than Ed did

[reece(:]

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-EKElCEfZRAc/WTK15R-rmWI/AAAAAAAAEkM/TWma1FM0ZSkkCc-Ofg1Iy5tzI-v7f_e9gCLcB/s1600/What%2Bkind%2Bof%2Bpeople%2BQuestion%2BTime.png

:joker::joker::joker:

[Brillopad]

yeah, just think most of the criticism he got that campaign was below the belt/pretty much bullying, pretty much the same tactic thats now being used on Corbs but he's dealing with it better than Ed did

If so, much like the bullying of May with nasty comments about her facial expressions and general demeanour. That isn't what she should be judged on.

[Brother Leon]

870754676907675648

Great Britain Languages: English, Scots, Welsh, Scottish Gaelic, Cornish

[Brillopad]

870754676907675648

Great Britain Languages: English, Scots, Welsh, Scottish Gaelic, Cornish

People can speak as many languages as they like but if they plan to live in Britain on a permanent basis then they will need to learn English as well which is and will always be the mother tongue of this country.

[DemolitionRed]

Does May want an illiberal democracy?

http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/the-art-of-election-war-is-may-underestimating-corbyn-1-5045359?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social_Icon&utm_campaign=in_article_social_icons

[Greg!]

871090909114490881

I'm screaming omg. Surely it's too good to be true though?

[King Gizzard]

They're interesting to post all the same even though they're rubbish

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/871089790992732164

Can't be arsed embedding it

[King Gizzard]

Oh, thank you Greg

[Greg!]

Honestly I would just love May to lose her majority. I would genuinely cry happy tears. But it'll never happen let's be real!

[King Gizzard]

Yeah I'm refusing to let myself get carried away. All my social media accounts are just one leftist liberal bubble so it just seems like Labour has a chance. Tories have a silent majority

[Withano]

871090909114490881

I'm screaming omg. Surely it's too good to be true though?

In total, 72% of respondents had seen or heard something about the debate.

Among this group, 36% said the event made them more likely to vote Labour, vs 24% who said it made them less likely to vote Labour, a difference of +12.

Among the same group, 32% said the event had made them less likely to vote Conservative, vs 24% who said it made them more likely to vote Conservative, a difference of -8.

Headline figures are as follows, with changes from our last Mail on Sunday poll, published on 21st May, in parentheses:


Dying, its actually because the silly mare didnt show up

[Sticks]

Honestly I would just love May to lose her majority. I would genuinely cry happy tears. But it'll never happen let's be real!


How about May losing her own seat?

[King Gizzard]

To be fair, the Mail would want to run a poll that has it neck and neck so they can scare their readers into voting

[Withano]

To be fair, the Mail would want to run a poll that has it neck and neck so they can scare their readers into voting

Good point

[AProducer'sWetDream]

Another just came out showing an increase in the Conservative vote?

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 45% (+1)
LAB: 36% (-2)
LDEM: 8% (+1)
UKIP: 4% (-1)

(via ORB / 31 May - 01 Jun)

These polls really are all over the shop!

[MTVN]

Dying, its actually because the silly mare didnt show up

Think by 'debate' they are referring to the Question Time special last night with Corbyn and May

[King Gizzard]

https://twitter.com/ComRes

these have it at 49% - 34% and were apparently the most accurate during the last election.

[MTVN]

Another just came out showing an increase in the Conservative vote?

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 45% (+1)
LAB: 36% (-2)
LDEM: 8% (+1)
UKIP: 4% (-1)

(via ORB / 31 May - 01 Jun)

These polls really are all over the shop!

The Comres poll tonight gave the Tories a 12 point lead as well, can't remember the pollsters ever disagreeing so much with each other

[Greg!]

Another just came out showing an increase in the Conservative vote?

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 45% (+1)
LAB: 36% (-2)
LDEM: 8% (+1)
UKIP: 4% (-1)

(via ORB / 31 May - 01 Jun)

These polls really are all over the shop!

Tbf that poll was made a few days ago. But I agree, they're a total mess.

[AProducer'sWetDream]

https://twitter.com/ComRes

these have it at 49% - 34% and were apparently the most accurate during the last election.

This is for best PM though, not voting intention. The polls suggest that Labour is more popular than it's leader, and that the Conservatives are less popular than their's.

[MTVN]

All of tonight's polls

https://i1.wp.com/order-order.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/polls.png?w=540&ssl=1

[Kizzy]

They better not cancel!! :fist:

[smudgie]

The last thing we should even think of is cancelling.
We can't let terrorist scum win and dictate what we do through fear.

[Kizzy]

Oh no they aren't thank god, but the onus is switched for her from domestic policy to terror, terror. terror. ... It's what the tories are good at, playing on fear.




http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/theresa-may-brutal-trend-terrorism-speech-london-bridge-borough-attack-a7771846.html

[smudgie]

Oh no they aren't thank god, but the onus is switched for her from domestic policy to terror, terror. terror. ... It's what the tories are good at, playing on fear.




http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/theresa-may-brutal-trend-terrorism-speech-london-bridge-borough-attack-a7771846.html

She was giving her speech after a meeting with Cobra....because people were killed and injured.
She wasn't switching any onus, it was not a campaign speech, it was informing the public.
The only terror terror terror was by the Terrorist scum that thought it was ok to go out and slaughter innocent people out enjoying themselves on a Saturday night.

[Kazanne]

She was giving her speech after a meeting with Cobra....because people were killed and injured.
She wasn't switching any onus, it was not a campaign speech, it was informing the public.
The only terror terror terror was by the Terrorist scum that thought it was ok to go out and slaughter innocent people out enjoying themselves on a Saturday night.

I find it quite strange that people would think it is a political vote puller from her,what mindset would make you think that ,whether you like a person or not,it seems the minute anything bad happens they jump on her it's ridiculous,you just know had Corbyn made this speech it would have been award winning very unfair and makes me think I am on the right side.:wavey:

[Withano]

I find it quite strange that people would think it is a political vote puller from her,what mindset would make you think that ,whether you like a person or not,it seems the minute anything bad happens they jump on her it's ridiculous,you just know had Corbyn made this speech it would have been award winning very unfair and makes me think I am on the right side.:wavey:

I watched an 8 minute speech that she made, and the first half was brilliant. Word-perfect. The second half was her reiterating her policies, so I'm not sure if you watched the full vid? But this was supposed to be a day of no campaigning, and it did cross that line.

[joeysteele]

I watched an 8 minute speech that she made, and the first half was brilliant. Word-perfect. The second half was her reiterating her policies, so I'm not sure if you watched the full vid? But this was supposed to be a day of no campaigning, and it did cross that line.

It did cross,you are right.

[Wizard.]

I watched an 8 minute speech that she made, and the first half was brilliant. Word-perfect. The second half was her reiterating her policies, so I'm not sure if you watched the full vid? But this was supposed to be a day of no campaigning, and it did cross that line.

She didn't campaign you lot are twisting it all, very bad taste.

[Greg!]

I saw a bit of May's speech. She was like "enough is enough" "we have to do more" but she didn't say what she actually wants to DO about it! I hate to say this but I think that part of her speech was election campaigning.

[Withano]

She didn't campaign you lot are twisting it all, very bad taste.

She literally referenced her stance on war, her stance on internet moderation (multiple times) and suggested that 'we' need to review the counter terrorism strategy. She discussed a potential change in the punishment of these crimes. And probably some other **** I can't remember off the top of my head. It was way over the line, and I dont know how you cant see that. The first half of her 8 minute speech was a statement on the attack, it was touching. The second half, clear as day, was undeniably, a political statement.

(I have seen a shortened version of her speech around, maybe you saw that?)

[Wizard.]

She literally referenced her stance on war, her stance on internet moderation (multiple times) and suggested that 'we' need to review the counter terrorism strategy. She discussed a potential change in the punishment of these crimes. And probably some other **** I can't remember off the top of my head. It was way over the line, and I dont know how you cant see that. The first half of her 8 minute speech was a statement on the attack, it was touching. The second half, clear as day, was undeniably, a political statement.

(I have seen a shortened version of her speech around, maybe you saw that?)

No I saw the whole thing and she was saying about what needs to be done because people want action not just words and she was reaffirming action not asking for votes.

[Kazanne]

No I saw the whole thing and she was saying about what needs to be done because people want action not just words and she was reaffirming action not asking for votes.

Yep, exactly that,nothing more,nothing less.:wavey:

[smudgie]

She literally referenced her stance on war, her stance on internet moderation (multiple times) and suggested that 'we' need to review the counter terrorism strategy. She discussed a potential change in the punishment of these crimes. And probably some other **** I can't remember off the top of my head. It was way over the line, and I dont know how you cant see that. The first half of her 8 minute speech was a statement on the attack, it was touching. The second half, clear as day, was undeniably, a political statement.

(I have seen a shortened version of her speech around, maybe you saw that?)

So, she should have stood there and said nothing about trying to find a solution then.
As the PM she should be looking for an answer and trying to calm fears.
Had she said vote for me and I will make you safer then I would agree with you, however she didn't.

[Withano]

No I saw the whole thing and she was saying about what needs to be done because people want action not just words and she was reaffirming action not asking for votes.

And that is campaigning in most peoples books Riley. That is in no way, a tribute to those lifes lost, that is in no way a condemnation of the terrorists. Its campaigning. It suggested possible policies and changes, and it crossed the line that she agreed to. Stop being biased.

[Kizzy]

I find it quite strange that people would think it is a political vote puller from her,what mindset would make you think that ,whether you like a person or not,it seems the minute anything bad happens they jump on her it's ridiculous,you just know had Corbyn made this speech it would have been award winning very unfair and makes me think I am on the right side.:wavey:

Mine, my mindset would think that as that's what it was.

It is not wrong to criticise her for that either, had Corbyn made that speech I would have felt the same.

[Kazanne]

Mine, my mindset would think that as that's what it was.

It is not wrong to criticise her for that either, had Corbyn made that speech I would have felt the same.

Well I never saw anything in that speech kizzy that was campaigning,I thought it was a good and straight to the point speech.:wavey:

[Jack_]

So she suspends campaigning and then makes the second half of her speech about how she'd tackle terrorism?

I cannot believe this disgusting **** has this election sewn up despite the fact this has all happened on her watch, with her dangerous cuts to police numbers that she was warned about. I don't think I've ever hated this country and its people more than I have done this last week.

A former officer knows the score but will the electorate listen? No, no they ****ing won't.

871339149630070784

[Jack_]

The **** is this? So much for the right being proponents of free speech

TEcMW6RmC_w

********, all of them.

[Kizzy]

So she suspends campaigning and then makes the second half of her speech about how she'd tackle terrorism?

I cannot believe this disgusting **** has this election sewn up despite the fact this has all happened on her watch, with her dangerous cuts to police numbers that she was warned about. I don't think I've ever hated this country and its people more than I have done this last week.

A former officer knows the score but will the electorate listen? No, no they ****ing won't.

871339149630070784

What a guy!!! bob on there.

[Wizard.]

Emily Thornberry states that you have to be careful about putting bollards on the bridges because they are so "iconic" - dumb cow puts that before the safety of human lives

BVlMPOHXoBk

[Greg!]

She didn't really say that though.

[Wizard.]

She didn't really say that though.

"One of the reasons they do it is because the bridges are so iconic, that's why you have to be careful about furnishings"

Yes she basically said it- she doesn't have her priorities straight.

[lewis111]

The **** is this? So much for the right being proponents of free speech

TEcMW6RmC_w

********, all of them.

Another example of the Tories showing their real side and no one chooses to comment on this

[Greg!]

"One of the reasons they do it is because the bridges are so iconic, that's why you have to be careful about furnishings"

Yes she basically said it- she doesn't have her priorities straight.

She said that bollards should be looked at but there needs to be a compromise between security and the publics' enjoyment of a major landmark. Which is fair enough imo.

[smudgie]

Some artistic concrete bollards would not go amiss.
Maybe round balls of different heights, or similar.

[Jack_]

Go40upNQ0ds

It is a complete injustice that this man isn't going to be Prime Minister in five days time.

The Tories have and are going to sink to new lows in light of all of this, and I hope he calls the deplorable ***** out for what they are - a morally bereft, corrupt party whose leader oversaw savage cuts to the police despite being warned it would weaken our prevention of a Paris-style terror attack (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/12008093/Police-cuts-will-leave-Britain-expose-to-terror-warns-top-officer-and-Boris-Johnson.html), and called such warnings 'scaremongering' (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/20/stop-scaremongering-and-prepare-for-further-cuts-theresa-may-tells-police). A party whose Home Office may suppress a report into the funding of terrorism (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/home-office-terrorist-funding-report-saudia-arabia-focus-not-publish-conservatives-government-a7766381.html), because it hones in on their selling of arms to Saudi Arabia. And a party whose Home Secretary, coincidentally, asked to and succeeded in silencing a candidate on this issue at a constituency hustings 24 hours ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEcMW6RmC_w). The very fact that the reprehensible Self Servatives are about to be gifted a carte blanche mandate to dismantle our public services, sell them off to the highest bidder, and continue to fund the sources of terror that we've seen on three occasions in the last three months, makes me feel physically repulsed. They have blood on their hands. Get me out of this ****ing ****hole.

[James]

Corbyn suddenly wants more power to the police, shoot-to-kill and more money for MI5 etc? I think you'll have difficulty finding him arguing for that before recent events.

[Greg!]

Not really when one of the first policies he announced was 10,000 extra police.

[Kizzy]

Emily Thornberry states that you have to be careful about putting bollards on the bridges because they are so "iconic" - dumb cow puts that before the safety of human lives

BVlMPOHXoBk

And should there be an incident of any kind how would the emergency services navigate these bollards?...fly? :/

[James]

Not really when one of the first policies he announced was 10,000 extra police.

That was after the Westminster attack.

Big trouble with Corbyn at the moment is that he is saying a lot of things he doesn't believe, because it is the week of the election. If you look at his voting record he's opposed pretty much every anti-terror measure that's been introduced, including the all the measures by the Labour government in the 2000s.

[Kazanne]

And should there be an incident of any kind how would the emergency services navigate these bollards?...fly? :/

You can get bollards and barriers that automatically drop into the ground ,that might help.

[joeysteele]

Go40upNQ0ds

It is a complete injustice that this man isn't going to be Prime Minister in five days time.

The Tories have and are going to sink to new lows in light of all of this, and I hope he calls the deplorable ***** out for what they are - a morally bereft, corrupt party whose leader oversaw savage cuts to the police despite being warned it would weaken our prevention of a Paris-style terror attack (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/12008093/Police-cuts-will-leave-Britain-expose-to-terror-warns-top-officer-and-Boris-Johnson.html), and called such warnings 'scaremongering' (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/may/20/stop-scaremongering-and-prepare-for-further-cuts-theresa-may-tells-police). A party whose Home Office may suppress a report into the funding of terrorism (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/home-office-terrorist-funding-report-saudia-arabia-focus-not-publish-conservatives-government-a7766381.html), because it hones in on their selling of arms to Saudi Arabia. And a party whose Home Secretary, coincidentally, asked to and succeeded in silencing a candidate on this issue at a constituency hustings 24 hours ago (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEcMW6RmC_w). The very fact that the reprehensible Self Servatives are about to be gifted a carte blanche mandate to dismantle our public services, sell them off to the highest bidder, and continue to fund the sources of terror that we've seen on three occasions in the last three months, makes me feel physically repulsed. They have blood on their hands. Get me out of this ****ing ****hole.

At the risk of being repetitive Jack_ I again agree totally and also get the dismay and disappointment you must hold at this time.

It will for sure be one of the greatest injustices of any election,if this lying hardfaced ,hard-hearted woman wins on Thursday.
Honestly Jack_ you and your posts all through this election have inspired me and possibly the only likely consolation will be,you will be shown to be right.
Although I doubt even then that message will reach those seemingly bewitched by deceitful Mrs May.

Animal, or poor,weak,sick and disabled human,they are going to face endless persecution just for being what and how they are..

[Kizzy]

That was after the Westminster attack.

Big trouble with Corbyn at the moment is that he is saying a lot of things he doesn't believe, because it is the week of the election. If you look at his voting record he's opposed pretty much every anti-terror measure that's been introduced, including the all the measures by the Labour government in the 2000s.

Nope..

'Labour will put 10,000 extra police on streets, vows Jeremy Corbyn'


What do you consider an anti terror measure?

How odd may just stated that live...are you Theresa May? :/

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/01/labour-will-put-10000-extra-police-streets-vows-jeremy-corbyn

[Firewire]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBjR6AcXoAALIJD.jpg

[Greg!]

That was after the Westminster attack.

Big trouble with Corbyn at the moment is that he is saying a lot of things he doesn't believe, because it is the week of the election. If you look at his voting record he's opposed pretty much every anti-terror measure that's been introduced, including the all the measures by the Labour government in the 2000s.

Theresa May voted against a lot of the anti-terror bills as well.

[James]

Nope..

'Labour will put 10,000 extra police on streets, vows Jeremy Corbyn'


What do you consider an anti terror measure?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/01/labour-will-put-10000-extra-police-streets-vows-jeremy-corbyn

That article is from May 1st, the Westminster attack was in March.

Here's some of the things he voted against - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/26/revealed-jeremy-corbyns-three-decades-blocking-terror-legislation/

I'll be glad when this election campaign is over. A lot of the political reaction to the terrorism has annoyed me.

[James]

Theresa May voted against a lot of the anti-terror bills as well.

Yeah, some of them. I see that.

EDIT: Here's more info - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40111329

[Kizzy]

That article is from May 1st, the Westminster attack was in March.

Here's some of the things he voted against - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/26/revealed-jeremy-corbyns-three-decades-blocking-terror-legislation/

I'll be glad when this election campaign is over. A lot of the political reaction to the terrorism has annoyed me.

Ah my apologies I thought you wee referring to the latest London attack.

[Kizzy]

Ok.... does this strike anyone as odd?....

Isis has claimed responsibility for Saturday’s attack, although this has not been verified and details of the claim were sketchy. In a statement published late on Sunday by the Amaq news agency, which usually carries its claims, it said: “A detachment of Islamic State fighters executed yesterday’s London attack.
An Irish identity card was reportedly found on one of the three attackers. Metropolitan Police commissioner Cressida Dick said that there was “an international dimension” to the changing terrorist threat facing the UK, but the majority of recent attacks and plots have been domestic in focus.

:conf:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/jun/05/london-attack-isis-claims-responsibility-victims-named-live-updates

[Kizzy]

That article is from May 1st, the Westminster attack was in March.

Here's some of the things he voted against - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/26/revealed-jeremy-corbyns-three-decades-blocking-terror-legislation/

I'll be glad when this election campaign is over. A lot of the political reaction to the terrorism has annoyed me.

As chairman of his constituency Labour Party, described the Falklands War in 1982 as a “Tory plot” in which unemployed men were sent to die.

- Spoke against the Gulf War, triggered following Saddam Hussein’s decision to invade Kuwait in August 1990.

- One of 13 Labour MPs who declined to force a vote on the bombing in Kosovo.

- Voted against the Iraq War 2003 and addressed the thousands of people who protested against the military intervention.

- Chaired the governing committee of the Stop the War Coalition, which was formed to oppose the Afghanistan War in 2001.

-In 2010 voted against the continued deployment of UK armed forces in Afghanistan.

What is this meant to prove James?... He was right on every single intervention here :/

[Kizzy]

Yeah, some of them. I see that.

EDIT: Here's more info - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40111329

Nice to see a smidge of impartiality from the BBC here, puts things in perspective a little better doesn't it?

[Kizzy]

DP just told us one was Pakistani and one was Moroccan and had an Irish ID

What a coincidence that the tory focus this week is the IRA and ISIS.

[Northern Monkey]

What a coincidence that the tory focus this week is the IRA and ISIS.

I have no clue what you're suggesting

[Northern Monkey]

Good that Corbyn has seen sense and U-turned on shoot to kill

[Greg!]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBjR6AcXoAALIJD.jpg

Lmao queen!

[Kizzy]

For all the standing before a gathered (invited) media, in front of a officious looking plinth espousing her supposed virtues let's not forget the facts....

'It is a fact that the Met has lost £600m for its budget. There are plans to cut the Met budget in the future by £400m, and to change the policing formula too, which would also cut the Met’s funding.'

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/jun/05/london-attack-isis-claims-responsibility-victims-named-live-updates

[Jack_]

So now we have David Cameron's former advisor calling for May's resignation:

871611939310379008

And a current firearms officer reiterating that her cuts have made us less secure:

I'm a serving firearms officer and the Government is wrong to claim police cuts have nothing to do with recent attacks

Despite her denials, Theresa May’s cuts to police numbers have made attacks like London and Manchester much more likely

After the Manchester Arena terror attack, Amber Rudd told the public: “We must not imply that this terrorist activity wouldn’t have taken place if there had been more policing … good counter-terrorism activity is because you have a close relationship between the policing and intelligence services.”

This kind of rhetoric may seem persuasive and eloquent but, as so often with politicians trying to avoid blame, it is untrue. It is untrue because it misses a key and huge fundamental point to the protection of our national security: community policing intelligence.

Police officers embedded in the community, there to help, there to listen, there to understand the community they serve. It is in the community where the best intelligence is learnt and gathered, from the people who notice a change in behaviour of their friends and neighbours, allowing early intervention and monitoring.

Theresa May’s cuts have removed these officers from the streets. The intelligence they brought in through local knowledge and community engagement has dried up and collapsed, and the local bobby known to all has gone, replaced by a reactive police “service” that is inadequate – as the press is always so quick to point out when mistakes are made and splashed all over their front pages.

“Cuts have consequences” – this was the tag line used by the Police Federation when the bones were being stripped from British policing. Now we see that this wasn’t “scaremongering”, as Theresa May, the then-Home Secretary told us. We are now seeing the very real consequences of these cuts – in the faces of the victims of this attack we see in our papers.

May told her audience at the time the police’s warnings “didn’t serve the public”. I ask now: has she served in the public’s best interest?

In my force alone, just to meet the service level agreements on officer numbers deployed to the street, shifts are being extended, rest days are being cancelled, and since the Manchester and London attacks more officers are required – officers who don’t really exist since the cuts. Many of my colleagues are working 18-plus days straight without any real rest to make sure the public are safe and protected.

The real questioned posed is can any random, lone wolf attack be stopped? With early intervention and the right attention: yes, possibly. Without information being fed into the police service and intelligence services about a particular subject from their community: of course not.

May was warned that her cuts would force paramilitary style policing in Britain yet she ignored this. The army is now deployed on our streets. More than 1,300 skilled firearms officers have been cut, recruitment of those officers is slow and our national security is at risk.

Officers know the risks of carrying a weapon. They know they will have little or no support from the Government if they are forced to fire their weapon and will face months if not years of investigations for trying to protect others. Would you join a job like this?

I chose to do this job not for the thanks – as there is little – but so people can lie peacefully in their beds knowing there is someone who would do whatever they can to make sure they are safe and protected.

My colleagues and I will continue to go forward when others run, but the reality now felt by officers around the UK, that we are too-often taken for granted and even perhaps un-liked by our Government.

We know if we get killed in the line of duty that the headlines will be gone in a day and our names will be forgotten. But we shall continue, we shall protect. Despite the obstacles we are continually confronted with to make our job harder, we keep going.

This article was written for the Independent by a serving firearms police officer who wished to remain anonymous.

The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/london-terror-attack-bridge-borough-latest-firearms-officer-government-wrong-police-cuts-theresa-may-a7772506.html)

As well as a group of British volunteers fighting IS in Syria backing Corbyn:

These British volunteers fighting against Isis in Syria want you to vote for Jeremy Corbyn

A group of British volunteers fighting Isis in Syria have called on the UK to vote for Jeremy Corbyn.

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2017/06/03/16/british-fighters-syria-corbyn-0.jpg

The socialist members of the Kurdish People's Protection Units (YPG) and its International Freedom Battalion backed the Labour leader’s controversial comments on foreign policy following the Manchester attack.

In a statement sent to indy100 they said:

"Only Jeremy Corbyn knows the way to stop Isis - through a foreign policy that cuts off their funding and supplies at the source.

Only he has been outspoken in his condemnation of the oppression of Kurds in the Middle East at this crucial time, with the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces about to defeat Isis in their capital of Raqqa.

The longer Theresa May is Prime Minister, the less safe everybody is, both here in Syria and back home in the UK.

The British volunteers, who are on the front line of a mounting offensive to take back Isis’ largest remaining stronghold alongside troops backed by the US-led coalition, said they were fighting to expunge the terror group “for the safety of all of humanity”.

They accused Mrs May of allowing jihadis including the Manchester bomber, Salman Abedi, to travel between the UK and Libya during the country’s civil war, as well as selling arms to countries that support Islamist rebels in Syria.

"Along with her toffee-nosed millionaire colleagues in the Conservative Party, she has brought nothing but instability to this region,” their statement read.

The group, previously known as the Bob Crow Brigade in honour of the late trade union leader, are fighting not just to defeat Isis but for a socialist “revolution” they see as the future for a peaceful and democratic Syria.

Members previously told The Independent that “dying for socialism is an honour” as they prepared to face Isis’ car bombs, snipers and mines in Raqqa.

Three British volunteers - a former Royal Marine, a chef and a dairy farmer - have already been killed fighting alongside the YPG in Syria, while other fighters have been prosecuted upon their return to the UK.

indy100 (https://www.indy100.com/article/british-fighters-syria-isis-kurds-ypg-jeremy-corbyn-vote-labour-election-2017-7771246)

The woman is morally bankrupt and has blood on her hands and Corbyn's going for the jugular now in backing calls for her resignation, he should tear the ****ing **** to pieces :cheer2:

Can't help but think Labour have just deployed the dead cat strategy against Crosby himself:

871690340180164608

[Jack_]

At the risk of being repetitive Jack_ I again agree totally and also get the dismay and disappointment you must hold at this time.

It will for sure be one of the greatest injustices of any election,if this lying hardfaced ,hard-hearted woman wins on Thursday.
Honestly Jack_ you and your posts all through this election have inspired me and possibly the only likely consolation will be,you will be shown to be right.
Although I doubt even then that message will reach those seemingly bewitched by deceitful Mrs May.

Animal, or poor,weak,sick and disabled human,they are going to face endless persecution just for being what and how they are..

Thank you Joey. I agree, I absolutely believe all who are chastising this appalling woman and her party will be vindicated in five years time, but unfortunately very few who supported her will agree. There'll be more excuses, more passing the buck, and they'll continue to be able to do and say anything they like without being properly scrutinised. I despair for this country, I really do.

[Alf]

Corbyn wants her to resign?

I'll tell you what she can do. She can call an election and let the people decide, oh... she already has.

[Jack_]

I'm guessing you didn't watch the video then, because that's exactly what he said.

[Kizzy]

Thank you Joey. I agree, I absolutely believe all who are chastising this appalling woman and her party will be vindicated in five years time, but unfortunately very few who supported her will agree. There'll be more excuses, more passing the buck, and they'll continue to be able to do and say anything they like without being properly scrutinised. I despair for this country, I really do.

Worse than that they will be virtue signalling, which as we all know is as bad as blinding cute puppies with rusty spoons.

[Kizzy]

No invited media
No plinth
No soundbites

HAg5zqpIHDg

[Brillopad]

Thank you Joey. I agree, I absolutely believe all who are chastising this appalling woman and her party will be vindicated in five years time, but unfortunately very few who supported her will agree. There'll be more excuses, more passing the buck, and they'll continue to be able to do and say anything they like without being properly scrutinised. I despair for this country, I really do.

Many would say the same if Corbyn got in. We have enough problems without him creating more.

[Greg!]

Latest yougov seat prediction, updated today and based on a sample of 8,000 people.

Conservatives 305
Labour 268
SNP 42
Lib Dems 13
Plaid Cymru 2
Greens 1
UKIP 0
Other 1
Northern Ireland 18

They're seem convinced that the tories will lose their majority. I hope they're right but I think they're wrong :(

[Wizard.]

Cressida Dick (Commissioner of the MET Police) and Lord Carlile (Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation until 2011) have said that the 20,000 cut to COMMUNITY police officers has had NO effect on the response to the latest terrorist acts.

[Wizard.]

Latest yougov seat prediction, updated today and based on a sample of 8,000 people.

Conservatives 305
Labour 268
SNP 42
Lib Dems 13
Plaid Cymru 2
Greens 1
UKIP 0
Other 1
Northern Ireland 18

They're seem convinced that the tories will lose their majority. I hope they're right but I think they're wrong :(

Yougov must be an outlier or seriously accurate because nobody else is predicting that.

[Wizard.]

And even after a terrorist attack Labour aren't letting their potential Home Secretary to do an interview because they know she is a shambles - they cancelled her appearance on ITV tonight, running scared.

[Greg!]

David Cameron's former aide has called on Theresa May to resign over police cuts. Welp.

[Wizard.]

David Cameron's former aide has called on Theresa May to resign over police cuts. Welp.

No it's because he belongs to a different faction of the Conservative party as Theresa and is a backstabbing traitor.

[MTVN]

David Cameron's former aide has called on Theresa May to resign over police cuts. Welp.

Bizarre really considering he was advising the Cameron government who set the budgets for the Home Office and demanded savings

The fact it only took 8 minutes from the first 999 call for the attackers to be shot dead shows that our police were well resourced enough to react immediately and effectively. Police numbers were cut but anti-terror budgets were protected and more armed police have been invested in.

[Kizzy]

Bizarre really considering he was advising the Cameron government who set the budgets for the Home Office and demanded savings

The fact it only took 8 minutes from the first 999 call for the attackers to be shot dead shows that our police were well resourced enough to react immediately and effectively. Police numbers were cut but anti-terror budgets were protected and more armed police have been invested in.

Nope

oL_caM_uyrU

[Kizzy]

The political editor of The Sunday Times has made defamatory comments about Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn on social media. Tim Shipman has since deleted the tweet. But Twitter users captured it before Shipman took it down. And it’s now going viral, along with calls for the author to resign.

The tweet heard around the country

Tim Shipman is political editor of The Sunday Times. He has made his views on Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn well known. And mostly, they fall within the parameters of simple political disagreement. But his latest intervention moves beyond that.

In the tweet, Shipman calls Corbyn a “terrorist loving commie”, and claims he’s “never seen anyone less suited to high office.”


https://www.thecanary.co/2017/06/05/political-editor-sunday-times-tried-delete-tweet-jeremy-corbyn-now-everyones-reading-image/

http://www.lse.ac.uk/media@lse/research/pdf/JeremyCorbyn/Cobyn-Report.pdf

[Kizzy]

Puts things in perspective, Corbyn attended a few meetings with Sinn Fein ... tories could potentially have armed jihadists.

Where is the report?... Vindicate yourselves, if you can.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/05/theresa-may-urged-not-to-suppress-report-into-funding-of-jihadi-groups

[smudgie]

He should print a big editorial on the subject, then see if he gets sued or not. Would be an interesting read.

[Kizzy]

He should print a big editorial on the subject, then see if he gets sued or not. Would be an interesting read.

Who would get sued, and why?

[smudgie]

Who would get sued, and why?

Shipman of course, if he believes ( as many do) what he tweeted about Corbyn, then get it in print.
Then if it isn't true Corbyn and comrades can sue him.
Simple.:joker:

[Kizzy]

Shipman of course, if he believes ( as many do) what he tweeted about Corbyn, then get it in print.
Then if it isn't true Corbyn and comrades can sue him.
Simple.:joker:

You can sue for tweets too though.

I kind of think you're missing the impartiality o the media message here though :laugh:

[smudgie]

You can sue for tweets too though.

Hmmmm, would open a whole can of worms though.

[Kizzy]

Hmmmm, would open a whole can of worms though.

I'm not suggesting he does, and it's not really the issue.

[Kizzy]

Reject the tory nana killer policy on thursday!!!

Tory winter allowance policy will kill 4,000 pensioners this winter

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-2017-tory-winter-allowance-death-claims-labour-means-testing-a7774301.html

[Northern Monkey]

Paul Nuttall just went in on Corbyn in his speech.Pretty brutal.

[Kizzy]

Paul Nuttall just went in on Corbyn in his speech.Pretty brutal.

Who? :hehe:

[Northern Monkey]

Who? :hehe:

You know,The Labour leader Jezza Corbyn.I'm sure you've heard of him?

[Kizzy]

You know,The Labour leader Jezza Corbyn.I'm sure you've heard of him?

:joker::joker::joker:

[Kizzy]

'When water was privatised, the Government took on that sector's outstanding obligations to leave the new owners debt free. The private owners have taken advantage, ratcheting up a breathtaking £46bn of debt between them'

Time to take it back.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/privatisation-failure-energy-water-railways-public-services-take-back-control-labour-john-mcdonnell-a7775216.html

[Kizzy]

The amount the NHS paid to ‘independent’ companies has more than doubled since 2010 to over £8bn a year.
8% of government health funding now goes to private companies.
Private companies working in the NHS have seen their profits soar by up to 100%.
The NHS has seen a real-terms cut in the amount of money given to it per patient.
The Tories have cut the number of people getting social care by 26%. And they’ve cut £50m from children’s mental health services.
Successive Tory-led governments have capped [paywall] the pay rises of doctors, nurses and healthcare workers at just 1%.
Additionally, between 2010 and 2015, under the Conservative-led government, mental health trusts lost the equivalent of £598m from their budgets each year. And findings show that there are still £4.5m of mental health spending cuts across five areas of England to come.

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/06/06/one-video-every-voter-needs-watch-thursday-one-video/

[smudgie]

Reject the tory nana killer policy on thursday!!!

Tory winter allowance policy will kill 4,000 pensioners this winter

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-2017-tory-winter-allowance-death-claims-labour-means-testing-a7774301.html

Ah, that COULD word again.
Nobody knows how many pensioner households it will hit yet.
It COULD be just the better off pensioner households that have been mentioned.

[Kizzy]

Ah, that COULD word again.
Nobody knows how many pensioner households it will hit yet.
It COULD be just the better off pensioner households that have been mentioned.

It says it will.. not could :/

[Kazanne]

Reject the tory nana killer policy on thursday!!!

Tory winter allowance policy will kill 4,000 pensioners this winter

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-2017-tory-winter-allowance-death-claims-labour-means-testing-a7774301.html

It wont happen,it's just scare mongering .Of course the media who are supporting Labour will print such stories.

[Kizzy]

It wont happen,it's just scare mongering .Of course the media who are supporting Labour will print such stories.

Our media is impartial isn't it?

[Kizzy]

Why does may give so many 'stump' speeches? Because faced by the general public, she's stumped.

[smudgie]

It says it will.. not could :/

I think you will find the COULD word is in the quote.
So according to Labour Party Analysis it will lead to deaths.
Then it COULD leave more pensioners at risk.
Labour Party Analysis based on what exactly......that it COULD be cut to a certain level of mean testing.
Fancy predicting deaths of the pensioners when you don't even have the facts at hand.
Scaremongering Labour is seems.:joker:

[Withano]

It wont happen,it's just scare mongering .Of course the media who are supporting Labour will print such stories.

I haven't read the article, but 4000 does seem unlikely I agree

Zero deaths also seems unlikely

[Kizzy]

I think you will find the COULD word is in the quote.
So according to Labour Party Analysis it will lead to deaths.
Then it COULD leave more pensioners at risk.
Labour Party Analysis based on what exactly......that it COULD be cut to a certain level of mean testing.
Fancy predicting deaths of the pensioners when you don't even have the facts at hand.
Scaremongering Labour is seems.:joker:

You chose to focus on the use of the word 'could' rather than 'will'. If it is not universal then it will be means tested how else?

[Kizzy]

The torygraph thought it was a **** idea too.

'Not many pensioners are on high incomes – only 2pc of pensioners pay higher-rate tax and those who are not on pension credit are still only on incomes of around £12,000- £15,000. Most older people are not living on high incomes so pensioner benefits and the state pension are of the utmost importance to millions of older people.
Take-up of pensioner credit is notoriously low, with many pensioners too proud to claim. It seems some would rather freeze than claim benefits. The need to means-test so many millions of older people would be cumbersome and costly and will add to complexity in the benefits system.'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/comment/9781034/Means-testing-winter-fuel-payments-would-be-disastrous-for-millions-of-pensioners.html

[smudgie]

You chose to focus on the use of the word 'could' rather than 'will'. If it is not universal then it will be means tested how else?

Means testing yes, but none of us know at what level.
Housing costs should be taken into account, and then means tested to an amount that won't be detrimental to the pensioners health.
I would not feel comfortable taking the money when I know it could go to more deserving families.:shrug:

[Kizzy]

Means testing yes, but none of us know at what level.
Housing costs should be taken into account, and then means tested to an amount that won't be detrimental to the pensioners health.
I would not feel comfortable taking the money when I know it could go to more deserving families.:shrug:

So there would have to be a specific department set up to deal with that, meaning more resources, more bureaucracy... Where is the funding coming from for that?

More deserving households do get it now, without having to jump through hoops for it which many either can't or won't do. I'm pleased you don't need it would it not have been beneficial to donate it then to a charity of your choosing rather than supporting this change?

If the take up for pension credits is so poor even though many may be entitled it seems strange the govt would apply a similar model for claiming a fuel payment, unless of course they are hoping there will be a poor uptake thus saving them money. Again it is the most vulnerable losing out in a cost saving exercise, as basically that's all this is.

[Kizzy]

'Johnson said suggested that some people were voting for Corbyn because they were too young to remember communism or socialism.
The trouble is young people these days - I’m 52 - do not remember nationalisation. They don’t remember soviet communism. They don’t even remember socialism. We don’t want it back in this country. It would be an absolute disaster.'

Why would it be a disaster? the water companies are £46 billion in debt... I say we wipe that debt, and take the very lucrative services back! As we are not in Europe anymore we would be well within our rights to do that.
In fact it's one way that leaving the EU could work to our advantage, we wanted sovereignty didn't we? well how sovereign is foreign countries and investors owning all our assets? :/

It would be a disaster for his chums who no doubt are creaming off huge shareholders dividends, take it back!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/jun/06/general-election-2017-security-farron-knee-jerk-response-politics-live#comment-99828597

[smudgie]

So there would have to be a specific department set up to deal with that, meaning more resources, more bureaucracy... Where is the funding coming from for that?

More deserving households do get it now, without having to jump through hoops for it which many either can't or won't do. I'm pleased you don't need it would it not have been beneficial to donate it then to a charity of your choosing rather than supporting this change?

If the take up for pension credits is so poor even though many may be entitled it seems strange the govt would apply a similar model for claiming a fuel payment, unless of course they are hoping there will be a poor uptake thus saving them money. Again it is the most vulnerable losing out in a cost saving exercise, as basically that's all this is.

Well, I have not quite reached the pension age yet, but if we were to receive it then no doubt it would be added to our charity pot, but there will be plenty can and will just add it to the x-mas present spending.
As to the administration, perhaps there should be some way it can be linked up to how much tax you pay. If you don't pay tax you should automatically get it anyway and if you do have a taxable income the information will be at hand.
Maybe that would be a starting point for making sure pensioners receive any tax credit they are entitled to as well, as you say, some won't claim it for one reason or another.

[Kazanne]

:idc: £30-48million black hole.
Nationalisation not costed.
Thinks that people would accept bonds for their shares:joker:

Please.........:laugh:

And IF Corbyn puts the minimum wage up to £10.00. per hour it won't be the British workers who benefit because there will be a few million more from Europe and beyond coming here for it.

[Kizzy]

Bit rich picking on the uncosted portion of one manifesto while ignoring to other one is entirely uncosted :idc:

There is nothing to say that EU members would be able to exploit our jobs market post brexit is there?

[joeysteele]

I think you will find the COULD word is in the quote.
So according to Labour Party Analysis it will lead to deaths.
Then it COULD leave more pensioners at risk.
Labour Party Analysis based on what exactly......that it COULD be cut to a certain level of mean testing.
Fancy predicting deaths of the pensioners when you don't even have the facts at hand.
Scaremongering Labour is seems.:joker:

Why doesn't your as seen as by you wonderful Mrs M ay, just tell pensioners who will be affected.
What her means testing criteria will be.
What will be the income level that will be the cut off point.
How many really will be affected.

Why should it be right or even decent to say all will be revealed after the election and not a scrap of real detail before.
You actually believe that right??

It is not just Labour and other Parties concerned at this policy but the charities who help the elderly.
What about sick,disabled 'comfortably' off pensioners, will they get hit by this too.
Can you say they will or won't.
What can you actually reveal to us about this policy that the party you support will not.

More to the point,why will they reveal nothing this side of the election, what is going to be so bad about this policy they won't give any even.basic details.

[Wizard.]

Our media is impartial isn't it?

The Mirror literally wrote an article called "How To Vote Tactically To Keep The Tories Out!"

[joeysteele]

And IF Corbyn puts the minimum wage up to £10.00. per hour it won't be the British workers who benefit because there will be a few million more from Europe and beyond coming here for it.

Oh come on, even the Cons intend making this wage £9, that's only one pound less.
Considering the Cons would never have had a minimum wage, voting against it all the way when it was

It doesn't help.either to play the EU immigrant card,you cannot say with certainty the Cons won't have to retain some free movement.

At least Labour will stop firms recruiting from Europe and elsewhere cheaper workers,undercutting the jobs market.

[Vicky.]

Oh come on, even the Cons intend making this wage £9, that's only one pound less.
Considering the Cons would never have had a minimum wage, voting against it all the way when it was

It doesn't help.either to play the EU immigrant card,you cannot say with certainty the Cons won't have to retain some free movement.

At least Labour will stop firms recruiting from Europe and elsewhere cheaper workers,undercutting the jobs market.

They will have to if theres any kind of trade deal. Thats obvious.

Looking more and more like May will walk away with no deal at all though. Which will be great for some who want a 'hard Brexit' but those are the minority I think.

Unfortunately for those who voted to stop immigration completely (also a minority apparently, but a significant minority. Near everyone I know who voted leave did so 'to keep immigrants out'), even if we leave the EU with no trade deal and no free movement...immigration of EU nationals to the UK will continue...

[joeysteele]

They will have to if theres any kind of trade deal. Thats obvious.

Looking more and more like May will walk away with no deal at all though. Which will be great for some who want a 'hard Brexit' but those are the minority I think.

Unfortunately for those who voted to stop immigration completely (also a minority apparently, but a significant minority. Near everyone I know who voted leave did so 'to keep immigrants out'), even if we leave the EU with no trade deal and no free movement...immigration of EU nationals to the UK will continue...

Hello Vicky, good to see your name on here again.

I agree with your points raised there.

[Brother Leon]

Theresa May appeared unwilling to be drawn into the row. She praised Khan’s response to the attack but refused to explicitly comment on the US president’s intervention.

Asked if Trump had been wrong to target Khan, May told reporters on Monday: “Sadiq Khan is doing a good job and it’s wrong to say anything else – he’s doing a good job.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/05/donald-trump-attack-courts-travel-ban-london
--

Still slurping Trump I see.

[Alf]

Reject the tory nana killer policy on thursday!!!

Tory winter allowance policy will kill 4,000 pensioners this winter

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-2017-tory-winter-allowance-death-claims-labour-means-testing-a7774301.html4.000? Mao killed 45 million, and Diane Abbott thinks he did more good than harm.

[smudgie]

Why doesn't your as seen as by you wonderful Mrs M ay, just tell pensioners who will be affected.
What her means testing criteria will be.
What will be the income level that will be the cut off point.
How many really will be affected.

Why should it be right or even decent to say all will be revealed after the election and not a scrap of real detail before.
You actually believe that right??

It is not just Labour and other Parties concerned at this policy but the charities who help the elderly.
What about sick,disabled 'comfortably' off pensioners, will they get hit by this too.
Can you say they will or won't.
What can you actually reveal to us about this policy that the party you support will not.

More to the point,why will they reveal nothing this side of the election, what is going to be so bad about this policy they won't give any even.basic details.

No, I don't think it is right.
I have mentioned before today that she should have told us all what the cap would be.
People would then have a more informed opinion before they vote, I think it will be to her detriment.

[Kizzy]

How much is the minimum wage?... Er £6?

No Andrew Michell...No

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/06/06/media-busy-attacking-diane-abbott-notice-greatest-car-crash-election-far-video/

[Vicky.]

I am conflicted on the new tories pledges tbh.

As I do not see why peoples homes are not included when paying for care and such at the moment. Many many people are sitting on 'unearned wealth' (meaning pensioners bought houses for not very much 60 years ago which are now worth millions now) and honestly, why the **** should someones inheritance be protected at all costs whilst the tax payer is propping up care that could be funded by the individual? I thought this was why people had to use their cash savings to pay for care themselves now? Why is it so bad to make this total wealth...why simply cash wealth where asset wealth doesn't count? The home won't be sold until the person is dead, and if they have a spouse that outlives them, then not until after the surviving spouse dies...I don't understand the outrage?! Its not something I would expect the tories to come up with tbh, as they are usually the party protecting wealth at all costs.

Same with means testing pensioner benefits. I have been saying for ****ing ages that this should be done. Why on earth should someone with 200k in the bank get a free bus pass, a winter fuel payment and such? Madness.

Yet...these 2 policies are what the left are protesting most about. And I always classed myself as a leftie. I am certainly planning to vote Labout on Thursday.

Basically. We have an aging population. Yes its unfortunate that todays OAPs were told NI would cover them in old age, but ffs the average age of death was like 60 then. Its 90 now. Noone took into account the advances in medical care/technology. This will get worse and worse too as the average age of death continues to rise.

[Kizzy]

Here we go again.....

Hundreds of postal ballots have gone missing in Plymouth. The Plymouth Herald believes the issue could affect up to 580 people. A number which is significant, as both Plymouth seats were won with a margin of less than 5% in 2015.

“Absolutely fuming”

The missing ballots are being investigated by the council’s electoral registration office and the Royal Mail. It’s confirmed they were sent first class on Wednesday 31 May, but it’s unknown where they ended up. The council is currently run by a Conservative and UKIP coalition.'

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/06/06/people-fuming-postal-votes-go-missing-marginal-seats/

[DemolitionRed]

Where do we stop though? Dementia is an illness of the brain, so if we charge people for that illness, what other illnesses should we charge for? My dad got a cancer diagnosis today. He's a wealthy man so should he be paying for his treatment? should my parents be propping their home up in return for the care he's going to need? Where does it begin and where does it end?

[DemolitionRed]

Dementia tax and age related disease is now being privatized. If we don't stop it here, its just going to grow.

[Vicky.]

We have a 'dementia tax' already though? My gran needed 24/7 care like 15 years back and had to pay around 1k per WEEK for her care...as her savings were cash rather than property. If she had her assets in property rather than savings, she wouldn't have had to pay this :/

[smudgie]

I am conflicted on the new tories pledges tbh.

As I do not see why peoples homes are not included when paying for care and such at the moment. Many many people are sitting on 'unearned wealth' (meaning pensioners bought houses for not very much 60 years ago which are now worth millions now) and honestly, why the **** should someones inheritance be protected at all costs whilst the tax payer is propping up care that could be funded by the individual? I thought this was why people had to use their cash savings to pay for care themselves now? Why is it so bad to make this total wealth...why simply cash wealth where asset wealth doesn't count? The home won't be sold until the person is dead, and if they have a spouse that outlives them, then not until after the surviving spouse dies...I don't understand the outrage?! Its not something I would expect the tories to come up with tbh, as they are usually the party protecting wealth at all costs.

Same with means testing pensioner benefits. I have been saying for ****ing ages that this should be done. Why on earth should someone with 200k in the bank get a free bus pass, a winter fuel payment and such? Madness.

Yet...these 2 policies are what the left are protesting most about. And I always classed myself as a leftie. I am certainly planning to vote Labout on Thursday.

Basically. We have an aging population. Yes its unfortunate that todays OAPs were told NI would cover them in old age, but ffs the average age of death was like 60 then. Its 90 now. Noone took into account the advances in medical care/technology. This will get worse and worse too as the average age of death continues to rise.

At the minute, if one of us goes in a home, we are only allowed to keep up to £23K in assets, so we would be £67K better off on the new scheme.
I do however think there should be a cap as well as a floor.
If a couple have a flat/ house down south it could be worth way way over the national average house price.
Imagine your home being worth half a million and you can only leave one hundred thousand to your kids, you could have a load of kids, imagine 5 kids getting 20 grand each.
But I also agree that if you can afford it then I see no reason why you shouldn't pay towards your care.
The same as the winter fuel payment, means testing it is much fairer, just as long as it is set at the right amount.

[Vicky.]

At the minute, if one of us goes in a home, we are only allowed to keep up to £23K in assets, so we would be £67K better off on the new scheme.
I do however think there should be a cap as well as a floor.
If a couple have a flat/ house down south it could be worth way way over the national average house price.
Imagine your home being worth half a million and you can only leave one hundred thousand to your kids, you could have a load of kids, imagine 5 kids getting 20 grand each.
But I also agree that if you can afford it then I see no reason why you shouldn't pay towards your care.
The same as the winter fuel payment, means testing it is much fairer, just as long as it is set at the right amount.
Yes there should be a cap. I believe May has already u-turned on this and said there will be now, so happy days :laugh:




The kickoff about means testing pensioner benefits, I am very...wtf at tbh.

[smudgie]

Yes there should be a cap. I believe May has already u-turned on this and said there will be now, so happy days :laugh:




The kickoff about means testing pensioner benefits, I am very...wtf at tbh.

Yes.
No mortgage, private pension plus 2x £155 a week pension, maybe have PIP as well. Soon adds up, more than many people earn, that is not counting whatever you have saved in the bank for a rainy day as well.

[DemolitionRed]

I thought this was rather good!

pTPvPwF38kY

[Cherie]

Yes there should be a cap. I believe May has already u-turned on this and said there will be now, so happy days :laugh:




The kickoff about means testing pensioner benefits, I am very...wtf at tbh.

We don't know what May considers a wealthy pensioner ..no figure for when means testing will kick in, the cap was hastily mentioned when she was losing support again, no figure, this cap will probably be forgotten once she is back in power, where is the incentive to save into a pension or buy a house, people may as well not bother ..pardon the pun

[Kizzy]

I thought this was rather good!

pTPvPwF38kY

:joker::joker::joker:

Brilliant DR :)

[Kizzy]

#wedemand party political broadcast

sQu8vIReX1c

Ii2emDUD4OY

[Kizzy]

kVffwor-AYc

[Firewire]

Nicola just said on the STV debate that after the Brexit result Kezia said to her that Labour will drop it's indy opposition welp

[Lee.]

Nicola just said on the STV debate that after the Brexit result Kezia said to her that Labour will drop it's indy opposition welp

Did she?? What like after the brexit negotiations are over?

[King Gizzard]

872053352296833024

another ****ing tory mug

but nah, abbott is the only incompetent one

[Firewire]

Did she?? What like after the brexit negotiations are over?

She said that after the referendum result Kezia came to her face-to-face and said Labour would drop the opposition to indyref2 (because Kezia is pro-EU)

[Lee.]

She said that after the referendum result Kezia came to her face-to-face and said Labour would drop the opposition to indyref2 (because Kezia is pro-EU)

She's a lying wee dug!

[Firewire]

She's a lying wee dug!

Which one? Kez or Nic? :joker:

[DemolitionRed]

#wedemand party political broadcast

sQu8vIReX1c

Ii2emDUD4OY

Shared, shared, shared.