[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

You are.

"What if there was a bakery that only offered birthday cakes would that be discrimination to other events ? . Or what if there was a bakery that didn't do bar mitzvah celebration cakes? is that offensive to jewish people?"

This is not a comparison but a complete exaggeration and mocking of the facts.
This didn't happen.

As for the Indonesian bakery, I don't know, I haven't heard/read that story.

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se...-religious-row

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/se...-religious-row

That's discrimination too.

Refusing to serve someone on the basis of their colour, race, sexuality, gender, creed etc is discrimination.

So, mocking with "You wouldn't go into a book shop and ask for a wedding cake" type facetiousness is pointless.

If they were refusing actual offensive/hateful/criminal material then that would be one thing. They're not. They're applying religious discrimination, just as the US bakery were discriminatory on the basis of sexuality.

It would be like a bakery over here turning away a Jewish family for a bar mitzvah cake on the grounds they are Christian. It's completely ridiculous.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

That's discrimination too.

Refusing to serve someone on the basis of their colour, race, sexuality, gender, creed etc is discrimination.

So, mocking with "You wouldn't go into a book shop and ask for a wedding cake" type facetiousness is pointless.

If they were refusing actual offensive/hateful/criminal material then that would be one thing. They're not. They're applying religious discrimination, just as the US bakery were discriminatory on the basis of sexuality.

It would be like a bakery over here turning away a Jewish family for a bar mitzvah cake on the grounds they are Christian. It's completely ridiculous.

But I've just shown you that article based on difference in religion views and beliefs and they don't do Christmas cakes .

And there will be places that don't do bar mitzvah cakes , not every place is going to give you what you want but they'll always be other places that do.

I just think people scream "discrimination" too much these days and it's not always as clear cut as that .

By all means if abuse and hate is there then fair enough,but these bakeries in Indonesia & America both seem polite & apologetic.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

But I've just shown you that article based on difference in religion views and beliefs and they don't do Christmas cakes .

So?

It wasn't so much that they don't "do Christmas cakes" they do cakes and also put customised writing on the cakes. They refused to write the words "Merry Christmas" because they are not Christian... or something. Incredibly petty, but also discriminatory. Writing that on a cake does not interfere with their own religion or their own right to believe whatever they want. When you're wanting to run a business, you follow the law.

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

And there will be places that don't do bar mitzvah cakes , not every place is going to give you what you want but they'll always be other places that do.

That doesn't make any sense. If a bakery does cakes... it does cakes.

There is no difference between a bar mitzvah cake and a birthday cake or a Christmas cake, other than maybe the decoration.

If I went into a shop and asked for a 12 tier cake and they told me oh, actually we only bake cupcakes that's fair enough but to be told "Oh, yes we can write whatever message you want on your cake, but I'm not writing Congratulations Bob & Gary because that's gay" that's discriminatory.

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I just think people scream "discrimination" too much these days and it's not always as clear cut as that .

By all means if abuse and hate is there then fair enough,but these bakeries in Indonesia & America both seem polite & apologetic.

Whether you think it's screamed too much or not has no bearing on whether something is discriminatory or not.

It's like saying "Oh bloody hell I'm sick of hearing of abuse and sexism in the workplace, people are complaining about it far too much". Maybe look at the cause being the actual sexism and abuse in the workplace, rather than the people speaking up about it.

If someone told a black guy "I'm ever so sorry but we don't allow black men on the premises of our shop. Could you please leave. Thank you ever so much. Have a nice day!" would we say oh that's not racism, they were apologetic and nice and polite. Ummm, no.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

So?

It wasn't so much that they don't "do Christmas cakes" they do cakes and also put customised writing on the cakes. They refused to write the words "Merry Christmas" because they are not Christian... or something. Incredibly petty, but also discriminatory. Writing that on a cake does not interfere with their own religion or their own right to believe whatever they want. When you're wanting to run a business, you follow the law.



That doesn't make any sense. If a bakery does cakes... it does cakes.

There is no difference between a bar mitzvah cake and a birthday cake or a Christmas cake, other than maybe the decoration.

If I went into a shop and asked for a 12 tier cake and they told me oh, actually we only bake cupcakes that's fair enough but to be told "Oh, yes we can write whatever message you want on your cake, but I'm not writing Congratulations Bob & Gary because that's gay" that's discriminatory.



Whether you think it's screamed too much or not has no bearing on whether something is discriminatory or not.

It's like saying "Oh bloody hell I'm sick of hearing of abuse and sexism in the workplace, people are complaining about it far too much". Maybe look at the cause being the actual sexism and abuse in the workplace, rather than the people speaking up about it.

If someone told a black guy "I'm ever so sorry but we don't allow black men on the premises of our shop. Could you please leave. Thank you ever so much. Have a nice day!" would we say oh that's not racism, they were apologetic and nice and polite. Ummm, no.

Once again you take it to the extreme level , I don't see anything about the American bakery not allowing gay people on the premises and they didn't refuse all service all together.

Niether did the Indonesia bakery . Nobody was kicked out of these shops unfairly . They just didn't do a particular cake for them .

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Once again you take it to the extreme level , I don't see anything about the American bakery not allowing gay people on the premises and they didn't refuse all service all together.

I never said you or they did. Read it again. I was responding directly to your comment that no discrimination occurred because they were "polite and apologetic" which is actually laughable.

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Niether did the Indonesia bakery . Nobody was kicked out of these shops unfairly . They just didn't do a particular cake for them .

I never said they did. Re-read what I said and what it was in response to.

I have no idea what religion this Indonesian bakery follow who are forbidden from writing Merry Christmas on a cake but can print it on cards. Whatever religion it is must take their icing very seriously.