[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Beso

I take it this isn't free on the NHS

Depends on the area. Same with anyone wanting to access IVF on NHS, each Trust has its own criteria. I had to pay for my IVF due to my partner already having biological children from a prior relationship. IVF on the NHS is very much a postcode lottery with really strict criteria.

[BBXX]

Why do people have such strong opinions on things they know nothing about

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by vesavius

I mean, you can call out perceived transphobia (which I find weird when you are happily to be as equally bigoted as you think others are in the very same thread) all day long, but it doesn't make it true.

I mean you can call out perceived heterophobia all day long but it doesn't make it true.

[Glenn.]

Like I said earlier in the thread. Imagine being triggered by surrogacy.

Except it’s not the surrogacy part, it’s the trans part that’s got certain members triggered. Certain members who are obsessed with other people’s reproductive organs and such. It’s weird as hell.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I mean you can call out perceived heterophobia all day long but it doesn't make it true.

C'mon now BBXX, I was just done saying that this had been a good discussion and I had no issues with you at all, no need for the attempted cheap gotcha point scoring.

I wouldn't have mentioned the heterophobia if the tired old cliches of transphobia hadn't been wheeled out first instead of a reasonable argument or valid point made and you know it.

Originally Posted by Glenn.

Like I said earlier in the thread. Imagine being triggered by surrogacy.

Except it’s not the surrogacy part, it’s the trans part that’s got certain members triggered.

'tRiGgEreD'

honestly, I come here looking for a reasonable discussion on things and you guys always manage to drag it down to this stupid level.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by vesavius

I wouldn't have mentioned the heterophobia if the tired old cliches of transphobia hadn't been wheeled out first instead of a reasonable argument or valid point made and you know it.

So you mention heterophobia because people dare to suggest the framing of the thread was transphobic in response to the opening post misgendering someone, making out like this was a outlandish situation when it's literally just surrogacy, and a slew of replies saying how 'weird' the situation was due to the child having multiple mums/dads.

Seems an odd thing to object to but cool I guess.

I would bet my life if Zelah born a male (and mentioned surrogacy or IVF between him and his girlfriend) this thread wouldn't exist. CD has form of having issue with trans people.

If it quacks like a duck a walks like a duck it's usually a ****ing duck.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by BBXX

So you mention... rant rant blah blah blah

Good grief

Originally Posted by BBXX

I would bet my life if Zelah born a male (and mentioned surrogacy or IVF between him and his girlfriend) this thread wouldn't exist. CD has form of having issue with trans people.

Nothing that I have said in this thread would be different if Ze had been born a male.

I don't care what others have said, I am not responsible for them.

What I will say though is that you perceiving them to be transphobic is NOT a shield for you to flex your own bigotry. You don't fix bigoted nonsense with more bigoted nonsense. You definitely don't have a license to be bigoted while trying to call others out for it. In fact, it makes your behaviour worse because you should know better if you are so aware of it all. The hypocrisy was deliberate.

And that was the point being made with the heterophobic quip. I am clarifying it because it clearly went right over your head.

[Barry.]

Originally Posted by Beso

So ze wants his eggs inside his partner, and then someone has sex to impregnate his partner...

Her a lesbian, forced to have sex with a man, and carry 2 peoples child for nine months...


All sounds very selfish of ze, he seems to be the only one winning here!

And of course the no strings attached sex for the stranger.

She won’t need to have sex with a man.

[Glenn.]

A whole thread on why and how a trans person chooses to have a baby.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Good grief



Nothing that I have said in this thread would be different if Ze had been born a male.

I don't care what others have said, I am not responsible for them.

What I will say though is that you perceiving them to be transphobic is NOT a shield for you to flex your own bigotry. You don't fix bigoted nonsense with more bigoted nonsense. You definitely don't have a license to be bigoted while trying to call others out for it. In fact, it makes your behaviour worse because you should know better if you are so aware of it all. The hypocrisy was deliberate.

And that was the point being made with the heterophobic quip. I am clarifying it because it clearly went right over your head.

I didn't say anything bigoted.

I know you didn't create the thread and I'm not asking you to answer for them or take responsibility for them. I'm explaining to you why there was a suggestion the thread was transphobic.

I was clarifying it for you, because it clearly went right over your head.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I didn't say anything bigoted.

I know you didn't create the thread and I'm not asking you to answer for them or take responsibility for them. I'm explaining to you why there was a suggestion the thread was transphobic.

I was clarifying it for you, because it clearly went right over your head.

What you posted was as heterophobic as the comments you are so alarmed by are transphobic. And you did so intentionally.

TBH, I am done here with you anyhow, so whatever.

What was actually a decent debate on it all has been derailed with this bottomfeeding bullshit. I regret letting you and Glenn drag me down to your level.

[Glenn.]

What is appalling is the entitlement you have to think you can debate anybody’s fertility.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

What is appalling is the entitlement you have to think you can debate anybody’s fertility.

Calling bigotry an opinion is like calling arsenic a flavour

[Glenn.]

I was using your own logic against you

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by vesavius

What you posted was as heterophobic as the comments you are so alarmed by are transphobic. And you did so intentionally.

TBH, I am done here anyhow, so whatever.

What was actually a decent debate on it all has been derailed with this bottomfeeding bullshit. I regret letting you and Glenn drag me down to your level.

I am heterophobic because I think it's shitty for straight people without fertility issues who choose having a biological child over adoption to judge other straight people with fertility issues (and those who cannot biologically have children together) to do the same.

What awful bigotry (said in defence of other straight people).

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I am heterophobic

There we go.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by vesavius

There we go.

Oh, you're back!

I thought we had broken up.

[Livia]

Zelah and partner are not infertile. You can't really equate this with people going through IVF. Zelah has chosen to live as a man but wants one of his eggs (excuse the screaming paradox there) implanted in his girlfriend. I hope they're paying for this nonsense themselves.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by Livia

Zelah and partner are not infertile. You can't really equate this with people going through IVF. Zelah has chosen to live as a man but wants one of his eggs (excuse the screaming paradox there) implanted in his girlfriend. I hope they're paying for this nonsense themselves.

It's the fact they are paying for it themselves that has people calling them selfish because that money could be spent on an existing child.

Now it's an issue if they're getting done on the NHS.

So they literally can't win. People just don't want trans people to be parents without judgement, it seems.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Yes there will be circumstances where someone's child is taken off them due to extenuating circumstances, such as poor mental health or addiction. But there's also many times when it's simply through poor choice.

What's being said is... straight people who have no fertility issues can keep on having babies without ever being labelled selfish for doing so...

...and it's the job of people who can't have babies biologically without medical help - ie: gay people, trans people and people with fertility issues - to adopt these children before having their own biological babies, or be labelled selfish and weird.

Also, the idea that people think it's okay to turn around to someone they know is struggling with fertility and say "why don't you just adopt" is so insensitive. Regardless of all the other stuff I implore whoever thinks that would be okay to please rethink, many people who are going through the ordeal of IVF would find that so inappropriate.

Tbh, that's not something that I would agree with anyway.

I'm all for supporting whatever decision the particular couple in question chooses to make.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Beso

So ze wants his eggs inside his partner, and then someone has sex to impregnate his partner...

Her a lesbian, forced to have sex with a man, and carry 2 peoples child for nine months...


All sounds very selfish of ze, he seems to be the only one winning here!

And of course the no strings attached sex for the stranger.

This post has made my eyes water.