[NettoSuperstar!]

Originally Posted by angus58

I can't have a serious debate with someone who thinks £30k a year is peanuts. I and plenty of people I know live on far less, AND in London, AND doing long hours, AND don't expect bloody handouts because they CHOSE to have kids. How dare you sneer at such a wage. You really are living in cloud cuckoo land. I have two sons both in full time employment and one supporting a family of four without handouts, and he is on nowhere near £30k.
You need to get your head out of your arse and join the real world where HARDWORKING people work rather than scrounge and make sensible choices about whether or not they can afford to have children.

So take your elitist opinions and shove them where the sun don't shine.

As for your last point, you can only speculate my dear, so you're the deluded one, going on about what might have been, instead of what actually happened. A bit hypocritical of you isn't it if you want to discuss actual FACTS. You lose the argument already, because here you are whingeing about necessary cuts in public spending which at least the TORIES are tackling. What did you expect after that socialist shower of useless incompetents mortgaging this country for the foreseeable future because of their profligacy? Labour are guilty in the first degree for encouraging feckless, lazy, bone idle benefit scroungers, to the extent that those in genuine need get pushed to the back of the queue, and are forced to jump through hoops to get their entitlements, because they are honest and don't know how to play the system. Why should pensioners who have worked and contributed to the system all their lives be living in poverty whilst layabouts who've never had a job have loads of kids they can't afford to keep themselves? I can't see their offspring being the saviours of this country when they grow up either

Your so called "facts" are laughable - lifted straight from the Labour Book entitled "Do as I say, Not what I do". Lucky you, to be on a salary of over £30k - if you can't manage on that there's something wrong with YOU.

Let's hope the government keeps the cuts coming and end this dependancy culture once and for all.

Again you keep going back to lazy scroungers (which isnt everyone on benefits and also Labour didnt introduce the welfare state in 1997 lol) ...we are NOT talking about that here, we are talking about HONEST WORKING CONTRIBUTING people.

Im sorry but your anecdotal evidence isnt universally applicable, its not a black and white world and whilst many families on 30 k will be comfortable, with the current lack of affordable housing and high childcare costs some wont easliy afford a drop. lets face it 30 k is the combined income of two parents on an unskilled/semi skilled wage (eg/ a support worker and a binman...hardly middle class)...or a single parent paying high rent charges and childcare costs may struggle...particularly those that have to commute a distance to work. claiming child support when you are a contributing member of society is not scrounging, it is what we pay our taxes for, that and a decent education for our kids, a decent healthcare system, police protection etc etc...

http://england.shelter.org.uk/profes...spects_of_life

And the main point is cutting vital services and support for the ordinary working people of Britain whilst ignoring the huges loss in govt income from tax avoidance and the fact that the financial sector have paid little consequence for their actions and are free to carry on as before is a CRIME. And they might want to tackle the disproportionate gap between the highest earners and lowest in the private sector too

http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Documents/PCSTaxGap.pdf

Labours public spending record....hardly any difference from the previous Tory govt (prior to the global finacial crisis and the drop in tax revenue since that time)

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk...ebt_chart.html