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Serious Debates & News Debate and discussion about political, moral, philosophical, celebrity and news topics. |
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03-09-2016, 08:55 AM | #76 | |||
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This Witch doesn't burn
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You are looking at basic NHS salaries, in truth junior doctors dont stay Junior for very long and rise up through the ranks pretty quickly, some can get to Consultant level in their early 30s, there are all sorts of extras they can earn in addition to overtime, they can work for drug companies in an advisory capacity, if they specialise they can be paid to give talks at meeting, where all expenses are by the drug company, they can edit Medical journals and be paid for it, most run private clinics alongside their NHS clinic, the NHS salary is just the basic, good luck to them, they work hard for it but they can earn serious salaries |
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03-09-2016, 09:50 AM | #77 | ||
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Whether that's true or not is irrelevant; if they become consultants they are no longer Junior doctors and so not part of the discussion. A few might have other things going on, and yes I am well aware of the issue with pharmaceutical kickbacks, but millionaires being "common" is just ridiculous. I actually know a lot of junior doctors, as the University I went to has a lot of med students, so the people I knew there have been doctors for 5 to 7 years at this point. None of them are even close to being "millionaires"... They have pretty normal middle class existences and incomes, hectic work lives, and little social time.
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03-09-2016, 09:58 AM | #78 | ||
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Remembering Kerry
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Junior Doctors are expected to be on hand far more than Consultants too, furthermore, a Junior Doctor is only classed as such from the moment they qualify,after all their training etc. That is all after the years of studying for same too. They will also remain Junior Doctors for between 5 and 15 years too, that is hardly rapid advancement to specialist or Consultant level. Many go on to do further specialist training in order to open up more doors to their future. To claim they can become millionaires in a likely general sense is way off the realms of probability in my view. None of my Cousins who have worked in the NHS for the last 3 to 8 years are anything like millionaires. Actually I think they should be able to earn serious salaries anyway, why on earth should they not, they are saving peoples lives day in, day out, year after year for likely the whole of the rest of their working lives too. In fact they should all be getting far better salaries than they actually do in my view anyway, for that fantastic work they do. Last edited by joeysteele; 03-09-2016 at 10:08 AM. |
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03-09-2016, 10:25 AM | #79 | |||
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self-oscillating
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People can try and paint the picture however they like, but the junior doctors are holding the country to ransom. This is not like a train cancellation, this is peoples lives. These are the very people that signed up to being in a position of trust, and they are killing any trust anyone could have in them. Yes, they may well win their battle in the short term, but not in the long term, believe me. No good will come from it.
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03-09-2016, 10:42 AM | #80 | |||
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This Witch doesn't burn
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03-09-2016, 10:47 AM | #81 | |||
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This Witch doesn't burn
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I agree they should be well remunerated so I agree with you on that Joey Last edited by Cherie; 03-09-2016 at 10:48 AM. |
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03-09-2016, 10:49 AM | #82 | |||
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Senior Member
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03-09-2016, 10:53 AM | #83 | |||
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self-oscillating
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The government is not destroying the NHS and it is ridiculous to suggest that they are. Does it approach its running differently from a Labour government? Yes it does, but that doesn't make it wrong. Labour showed all to well how to **** up the NHS during their time in office
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03-09-2016, 10:54 AM | #84 | ||
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Without Junior Doctors we are ****ed. The hours that Hospital Staff work is ridiculous and unsustainable and the Tories know that an they rely on people like you who are quick to blame the Junior Doctors to aid in the destruction of the NHS. Working long hours almost every day is ridiculous and unhealthy and Jeremy Hunt knows it. He's just pushing the whole 7 day plan as a way to destroy the NHS. There aren't enough medical staff to sustain his plans and making them work for less is only going to drive future medical students into the private sector or into another line of work altogether. If you want the NHS to survive you have to support the JD's, swallowing the Tory bull**** will only lead to it's ruin. |
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03-09-2016, 10:55 AM | #85 | |||
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self-oscillating
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03-09-2016, 11:32 AM | #86 | ||
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They are shifting us to private health care through the back door, and making such palatable by creating situations that erode the publics faith in the NHS. There's really no two ways about that. |
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03-09-2016, 11:46 AM | #87 | |||
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Likes cars that go boom
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100% agree with that Hunt is the privatisation tzar.
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03-09-2016, 11:46 AM | #88 | ||
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03-09-2016, 03:03 PM | #89 | ||
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03-09-2016, 03:05 PM | #90 | ||
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..especially when the service still remains free and the service and waiting lists fall...in the end thats all that matters |
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03-09-2016, 03:07 PM | #91 | ||
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hunt is 100% irrelevant...the nhs must become 7 day a week at the same level that means 4 day on 4 day off doctors contracts...it also means in time we must tear up the insane 2004 gp doctors contract allowing them all to avoid all out of hours work
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03-09-2016, 03:07 PM | #92 | |||
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So if jr drs are already stretched how is asking them to work less going to work? Recruit more... Just have wards staffed with nurse practitioners?
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03-09-2016, 03:11 PM | #93 | ||
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remember the endless cover ups and abuses? 1500 patients died of thirst in stafford....doctors admitted they were bullied and intimidated not to complain, the ombudsmen and complaints system collapsed....endless cover ups, in wales they took body parts without authorisation....the waiting lists in wales under labour are insane compared to england....the way its run with these monstrous trusts is totally wasteful and corrupt and in many ways plain stupid....their block booking systems are crazy, you cant get scanned at weekends, you cant get your test results for simple things like eye tests for up to 6 to 10 weeks? in england you get the results the same day the welsh nhs is an absolute shambles |
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03-09-2016, 03:13 PM | #94 | ||
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again its really simple maths...at present less than a third work weekends and the mass of workload falls on those few junior doctors who overwork up to 91 hours..under the new contracts they all work some weekends so the workload is spread more evenly throughout ALL junior doctors...please understand this basic fact. forget tory v labour for a moment. this is why all huge organizations use these 4 day on 4 day off continental work shift patterns. the nhs should of course do exactly the same.
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03-09-2016, 03:16 PM | #95 | ||
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03-09-2016, 03:33 PM | #96 | ||
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However to pay them more money where does that money come from? well Id suggest 1) we abolish the GP contract of 2004 to get more GPs doing some out fo hours. This is in effect takes massive rpessure off all hospitals and all junior doctors, which would save the nhs a fortune , especially in extra staffing hours and overtime now were out fo the bankrupt EU we will finally be allowed to recruit the 10,000s of nurses and doctors we need outside of europe. get recruiting. this will not only improve everything it will save the nhs billions in recruting tmeporary staff cover at double the rates massively reduce the trusts and the trust members and staff. I have dealth with these dreadful people they add nothing to the nhs, they save nothing, they are not medically qualified they simply bleed money out of the nhs....reduce the salaries of the CEO's too.....Matrons are good they are on £81,000 thats a hefty salary. strengthen the obudsmen and the complaints procedures , this is far better than cover ups. the problems must be addressed honestly and openly or they are never fixed pump more money into the front end. i.e in getting millions more people scanned far quicker with results in many cases the same day. this will save billions in the long run. billions saved in bed blocking, in taking excess medicataions, in seeing people get sicker....get people scanned quicker, get them diagnosed , treated and better...atm many multi million pound machines are simply not used...in my local one machine that finds kidney stones is used 3 hours a week? a lot of this is common sense practice |
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03-09-2016, 03:40 PM | #97 | |||
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Likes cars that go boom
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03-09-2016, 03:43 PM | #98 | ||
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When you consider the amount of study that goes into becoming a doctor, and the hours required to progress, all you're going to do is make it an unattractive profession for the most able and intelligent applicants. Intelligent young people will have less incentive to apply themselves to the pursuit of that career and will go into other industries where they can make the same or better money. Fewer of the best minds going into medicine, worse doctors, more misdiagnosis and treatment errors, more death. A race to the bottom. Simple as that.
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03-09-2016, 03:55 PM | #99 | ||
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if you read what i said properly, you dont need extra money, money is not always the answer , you just change where the money is going...
1) scrap some health boards and concentrate more into less 2) massive overhaul of who sits on these boards and earns a fortune. why do we need so many people on massive salaraies who are not medically qualified and do not save lives 3) when we build hospital lifts ensure all parts are available long term in this country. many hospital lifts become extoncy effectively after a few yrs as we cant get the parts. this is mindless 4) 4 day on 4 day off work shifts for EVERYONE. this ensures the standards are maintaiend, this massively reduces the waiting lists as hospitals dont half close down at weekends then start up again monday 5) early testing will save a fortune in medication, in staffing, in bed blocking etc 6) getting people scanned and cured ealrier means more people working paying into the system, less people needing sickness benefits...both put more money into the system 7) the stronger ombudesmen will allow contructive criticisms to be made privately and then acted on to improve the system 8) write an nhs constitution so that every buys into the culture and has an over view of what the nhs is for and what its mant to achieve. its for the patients , period 9) gp 2004 contracts scrapped so they must do some out of hours. again takes pressure off the nhs and saves them money long term 10) recruiting staff outside the eu will save billions , at the moment billions are wasted on paying for temporary staffing. outside the eu we can recuit as many doctors and nurses permanently outside the eu , this will save tens of billions There are almost infinite inefficiencies in the nhs....having a uk wide database for all waiting lists is the best way forward....if you need urgent scanning for kidney stones go on the uk national database and guess what you may get seen in a week rather than 6 months....wouldnt you travel to north wales for a day if it saved you 6 months of agony? one other massive area they are getting it right in scotland and wrong everywhere else is in scotland where they have merged the social care with the nhs care udner 1 roof in england and wales the social are permanently at war with the nhs over who covers what care and who pays for it its insane and it destroys families too all under 1 roof....this saves the endless back and forth it saves the endless ridiculous battles over caring for people at home too furthermore the nhs need to ensure all patients who do have private care policies actually utilise these policies to cover some of these expenses for example if you had a £20,000 per annum care policy but your care at home costs £40,000 there is no reason why the patients cant use £20,000 of his policy then the nhs covers the rest....this saves them £20,000 a year multiply that by the millions cared for at home and your taling billions per annum this saldy is NOT the way its done now...usually this private policy money is not cashed in and the nhs loses billions and the insurance companies are let off the hook its just stupid |
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03-09-2016, 03:55 PM | #100 | ||
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