[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I actually totally have to disagree that informed decisions were made in voting, on both sides too, although those voting remain knew things would probably go on as before.
However in even my own family, of whom very few voted to leave, talking to just 5 of them, 1 only voted to stop free movement of people from the EU, 2 voted for powers to be returned back to the UK parliament and the other 2 voted just for a change, no specifics as to why.

There were several factors of voting leave with not all voting for one set of things either.
That is my view and you can discount that but even from that small number in my family who did so, they did not vote for instance,believing we would leave the single market..
Also neither were they voting for that when they voted leave.

Needless to say I disagree too with your fist part of your post sadly, I see no reasons for personal attacks on others and stating they appear to know nothing.
Everyone has opinions, they do not need to be offensive,.

But what makes those examples that you give of leave voters you know any more valid than those that Kirk knows?All are equally valid.There are many who researched what they were voting for aswell as many who did'nt on both sides.I don't discount your view as you shouldn't discount Kirks on those examples.There are implications on here that most leavers are unimformed or racists or xenophobes etc(i'm not saying that you've suggested that).These are offensive to leavers.
I saw no personal attacks in his post towards any person.Just an opinion on posts on here.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

But what makes those examples that you give of leave voters you know any more valid than those that Kirk knows?All are equally valid.There are many who researched what they were voting for aswell as many who did'nt on both sides.I don't discount your view as you shouldn't discount Kirks on those examples.There are implications on here that most leavers are unimformed or racists or xenophobes etc(i'm not saying that you've suggested that).These are offensive to leavers.
I saw no personal attacks in his post towards any person.Just an opinion on posts on here.

They are not more valid, where do I say that?
That is exactly what I was saying.

However in the post I responded to that post that does not say anywhere in there any acknowledgement of an opposing view.
Where on earth though did I say my findings were any more valid than Kirk's, it was merely another take on actual leave voters and voting.

What is sure however,in my view,is that neither him, you or I can be sure that 'everyone' who voted leave, voted for 'all' the same reasons or even just one reason.

They voted to leave yes, the make up of leaving is an entirely different thing.

By the way, there's been plenty of abuse thrown at remain voters on here too, very unpleasantly too at times.
Very much directly against myself personally as well.
Leave actually does not have a monopoly on that happening either.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

They are not more valid, where do I say that?
That is exactly what I was saying.

However in the post I responded to that post that does not say anywhere in there any acknowledgement of an opposing view.
Where on earth though did I say my findings were any more valid than Kirk's, it was merely another take on actual leave voters and voting.

What is sure however,in my view,is that neither him, you or I can be sure that 'everyone' who voted leave, voted for 'all' the same reasons or even just one reason.

They voted to leave yes, the make up of leaving is an entirely different thing.

By the way, there's been plenty of abuse thrown at remain voters on here too, very unpleasantly too at times.
Very much directly against myself personally as well.
Leave actually does not have a monopoly on that happening either.

It seems we agree that many leave voters made an informed and researched decision just as many didn't.
You began your post with -
"I actually totally have to disagree that informed decisions were made in voting, on both sides too, although those voting remain knew things would probably go on as before."
And then continued with examples of people you know who voted leave without any or many actual reasons.
Maybe if you'd said 'I actually totally have to disagree that informed decisions were made in voting FROM SOME leave voters' then I wouldn't have misunderstood your meaning.

Kirks post didn't have any acknowledgement of an opposing view because he was giving a rebuttal with examples of leavers who he knows to a post which was covertly implying 'Joe public'(people who voted leave) were uninformed idiots who were about to get some big shock or 'kick in the nads'.

The rest of your post I agree with.Although i haven't seen you abused Personally it may have happened.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

It seems we agree that many leave voters made an informed and researched decision just as many didn't.
You began your post with -
"I actually totally have to disagree that informed decisions were made in voting, on both sides too, although those voting remain knew things would probably go on as before."
And then continued with examples of people you know who voted leave without any or many actual reasons.
Maybe if you'd said 'I actually totally have to disagree that informed decisions were made in voting FROM SOME leave voters' then I wouldn't have misunderstood your meaning.

Kirks post didn't have any acknowledgement of an opposing view because he was giving a rebuttal with examples of leavers who he knows to a post which was covertly implying 'Joe public'(people who voted leave) were uninformed idiots who were about to get some big shock or 'kick in the nads'.

The rest of your post I agree with.Although i haven't seen you abused Personally it may have happened.

I am rather confused that there was any difficulty in understanding my statement.
Since I myself included no quantifying at all of the comment because like everyone else, I do not know how many voted that were in fact who could be termed not informed.
Hence no figures of any quantity even as to minority, half or majority in my post at all.

Just as I equally, which is why I also included both for leave and remain in my posts, have no idea if the minority, half or majority, of remain voters voted remain with the full knowledge of the workings of the EU itself either.

With respect neither have you or anyone else as to that.

Also finally, the abuse I mentioned did happen, not 'may have happened', it did,since I was on the receiving end I know it did.

I was hammered on here accused of being someone who pestered people and invaded their privacy by canvassing knocking at their doors during the EU referendum, a duty I and hoards of other people were supposed to carry out as a part of a canvassing team.
Just to mention one instance.

You didn't see it, so you just say maybe it happened, it did happen.
I balance my views on here whenever can, I never need to make anything up.

However,I have held back as a member on here but the getting at done on here,jumping at any little thing for whatever reasons,is a turn off.
Some are getting a raw deal just for who they are on the forum, that is sad to see anywhere, not just on this forum.
So I felt the need to defend someone today just as it seems you did too.

Except no insults were flying from me as to all their posts on any of the points I made or raised.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I am rather confused that there was any difficulty in understanding my statement.
Since I myself included no quantifying at all of the comment because like everyone else, I do not know how many voted that were in fact who could be termed not informed.
Hence no figures of any quantity even as to minority, half or majority in my post at all.

Just as I equally, which is why I also included both for leave and remain in my posts, have no idea if the minority, half or majority, of remain voters voted remain with the full knowledge of the workings of the EU itself either.

With respect neither have you or anyone else as to that.

Also finally, the abuse I mentioned did happen, not 'may have happened', it did,since I was on the receiving end I know it did.

I was hammered on here accused of being someone who pestered people and invaded their privacy by canvassing knocking at their doors during the EU referendum, a duty I and hoards of other people were supposed to carry out as a part of a canvassing team.
Just to mention one instance.

You didn't see it, so you just say maybe it happened, it did happen.
I balance my views on here whenever can, I never need to make anything up.

However,I have held back as a member on here but the getting at done on here,jumping at any little thing for whatever reasons,is a turn off.
Some are getting a raw deal just for who they are on the forum, that is sad to see anywhere, not just on this forum.
So I felt the need to defend someone today just as it seems you did too.

Except no insults were flying from me as to all their posts on any of the points I made or raised.

Yeah,When i said 'it may have happened' I wasn't doubting that it did.Maybe i worded that incorrectly.I do believe you that it did and i don't think you make anything up.I often enjoy and learn much from your posts.I was just saying that I didn't see it.I also try and stay out of all the drama and bickering on here(i get enough of that irl from the misses).However i believe you Possibly misunderstood or misrepresented Kirks post in saying he was trying to have some kind of 'monopoly' in knowing people on the leave side from all different backgrounds when this was not the case.He was simply refuting an imo underhanded dig at leave voters.
Anyway i'm sure we'll all be warring about some other issue in a few weeks and then CBB.It's all entertainment.