[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It is their opinion to believe someone is racist but is not necessarily a proven fact that gives them the right to verbally abuse them by publicly calling them racist. It comes down to abuse in exactly the same way.

I wouldn't call racist an insult, it's an accusation and one that's easily dispelled if it's not true. It does feel a bit rich though as you tend to bandy out phrases such as 'Leftie' 'Remoaner' and other terms for people that don't share your opinions yet you oppose people calling out others as racist. If you consider the latter an insult then does that mean you regularly insult other members too?

As I said when transphobia was a talking point a few weeks back, I don't consider someone saying 'you are transphobic (or in this case, racist) and here's why I think that' to be an insult. That is someone arguing their point. If someone turned around and said 'I think ____ is a transphobic/racist prick' then that is verbal abuse.

I can't consider the accusation of racism or any other forms of bigotry an insult in itself, especially if the accusation is explained fully in a sensible way.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I wouldn't call racist an insult, it's an accusation and one that's easily dispelled if it's not true. It does feel a bit rich though as you tend to bandy out phrases such as 'Leftie' 'Remoaner' and other terms for people that don't share your opinions yet you oppose people calling out others as racist. If you consider the latter an insult then does that mean you regularly insult other members too?

As I said when transphobia was a talking point a few weeks back, I don't consider someone saying 'you are transphobic (or in this case, racist) and here's why I think that' to be an insult. That is someone arguing their point. If someone turned around and said 'I think ____ is a transphobic/racist prick' then that is verbal abuse.

I can't consider the accusation of racism or any other forms of bigotry an insult in itself, especially if the accusation is explained fully in a sensible way.

I agree again, if a name is levelled at you and an explanation given and you are given the opportunity to disprove that label, it is not insulting and goes back to the freedom of speech that we are all afforded. If there is no chance of a reasoned discussion and it is used as a shut down, then it becomes insulting. I believe the only way forward is people discussing uncomfortable topics and then these being debated in a adult manner - not just you called me this so I will call you that etc etc.

I do believe this country i far more tolerant now and will only continue to improve as education and better protection laws develop BUT we still have a long way to go to total tolerance of all

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I wouldn't call racist an insult, it's an accusation and one that's easily dispelled if it's not true. It does feel a bit rich though as you tend to bandy out phrases such as 'Leftie' 'Remoaner' and other terms for people that don't share your opinions yet you oppose people calling out others as racist. If you consider the latter an insult then does that mean you regularly insult other members too?

As I said when transphobia was a talking point a few weeks back, I don't consider someone saying 'you are transphobic (or in this case, racist) and here's why I think that' to be an insult. That is someone arguing their point. If someone turned around and said 'I think ____ is a transphobic/racist prick' then that is verbal abuse.

I can't consider the accusation of racism or any other forms of bigotry an insult in itself, especially if the accusation is explained fully in a sensible way.

Also this.

I have been called transphobic many times. I am aware that to some people my views will come across as transphobic, thats entirely their right to think I am transphobic. I disagree, obviously but I do not class 'you are transphobic' as an insult at all

Transphobia is the only phobia or ism I have been accused of though. And 'transphobia' today literally means 'anyone who does not agree that male people are actually female' so the word is totally meaningless.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I wouldn't call racist an insult, it's an accusation and one that's easily dispelled if it's not true. It does feel a bit rich though as you tend to bandy out phrases such as 'Leftie' 'Remoaner' and other terms for people that don't share your opinions yet you oppose people calling out others as racist. If you consider the latter an insult then does that mean you regularly insult other members too?

As I said when transphobia was a talking point a few weeks back, I don't consider someone saying 'you are transphobic (or in this case, racist) and here's why I think that' to be an insult. That is someone arguing their point. If someone turned around and said 'I think ____ is a transphobic/racist prick' then that is verbal abuse.

I can't consider the accusation of racism or any other forms of bigotry an insult in itself, especially if the accusation is explained fully in a sensible way.

Reactionary, it isn’t complicated - just got sick of people feeling they can call others racist according to their interpretation of their words. You invite that kind of response!

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Reactionary, it isn’t complicated - just got sick of people feeling they can call others racist according to their interpretation of their words. You invite that kind of response!

If I was called a racist, I would look internally for the reason why. I find it interesting that you keep looking for external excuses.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

If I was called a racist, I would look internally for the reason why. I find it interesting that you keep looking for external excuses.

I’m not looking for excuses - you are the one doing that. I only get called ‘racist’ by the same few people who have an agenda. It”s the hypocricy and obvious shut-down tactics that annoy me.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I’m not looking for excuses - you are the one doing that. I only get called ‘racist’ by the same few people who have an agenda. It”s the hypocricy and obvious shut-down tactics that annoy me.

What agenda is that?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I’m not looking for excuses - you are the one doing that. I only get called ‘racist’ by the same few people who have an agenda. It”s the hypocricy and obvious shut-down tactics that annoy me.

I've "called you racist" in the past Brillo and it's not with an agenda or to shut you down. Do I think you are "a racist person"? I obviously don't know you well enough to make a judgement like that - although on calm consideration, I suspect you are not inherently racist for the sake of it, but rather there are certain issues that make you very angry, and that anger sometimes comes out in a "certain way". You have however, made individual posts in the past that have been, in my opinion, racist... and are arguably objectively racist (as you sometimes make assumptions about people based on their race; the definition of racism). This is just a statement of observation / opinion; it's not name calling or even designed to be a put-down, and it's certainly not driven by some other agenda other than to state that opinion, just as you are free to (and frequently do) state your own opinions.

I suppose, on the positive side, the fact that you consider being called racist "name calling" is encouraging because at the very least, it's clear that you do recognise that racism isn't good. Plenty of people are openly and proudly racist and will happily accept the term being thrown their way, which is much more troubling.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I've "called you racist" in the past Brillo and it's not with an agenda or to shut you down. Do I think you are "a racist person"? I obviously don't know you well enough to make a judgement like that - although on calm consideration, I suspect you are not inherently racist for the sake of it, but rather there are certain issues that make you very angry, and that anger sometimes comes out in a "certain way". You have however, made individual posts in the past that have been, in my opinion, racist... and are arguably objectively racist (as you sometimes make assumptions about people based on their race; the definition of racism). This is just a statement of observation / opinion; it's not name calling or even designed to be a put-down, and it's certainly not driven by some other agenda other than to state that opinion, just as you are free to (and frequently do) state your own opinions.

I suppose, on the positive side, the fact that you consider being called racist "name calling" is encouraging because at the very least, it's clear that you do recognise that racism isn't good. Plenty of people are openly and proudly racist and will happily accept the term being thrown their way, which is much more troubling.

An opinion - but one given with some thought and honesty. You are entitled to it as I am mine.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I’m not looking for excuses - you are the one doing that. I only get called ‘racist’ by the same few people who have an agenda. It”s the hypocricy and obvious shut-down tactics that annoy me.

See, thats an external excuse.. 'I'm racist because other people have an agenda'... nobody else gets called it so often.. maybe theres somethig internal you could think about? Justasuggestion.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

See, thats an external excuse.. 'I'm racist because other people have an agenda'... nobody else gets called it so often.. maybe theres somethig internal you could think about? Justasuggestion.

Coming from you it means nothing. I will never be a racist based on the agenda-driven opinions of that same few.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Coming from you it means nothing. I will never be a racist based on the agenda-driven opinions of that same few.

But you clearly have an issue with being perceived that way by whichever few youre talking about? It would just make more sense from my perspective to try and understand why they regularly call you that and call nobody else that instead of blaming them and their agenda for calling you that.

It just seems more likely that it is something you are doing than their agenda(?) that they have only against you?

I mean ignore this if you dont have a problem with being called it so frequently, it just seems like you do have a problem with it.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Reactionary, it isn’t complicated - just got sick of people feeling they can call others racist according to their interpretation of their words. You invite that kind of response!

People are entitled to call people racists if that's how they feel, Brillo. There's no ifs or buts about it. You can blame the world but it's not going to change the fact that everyone is entitled to freedom of speech, it's not a right that's reserved only for a few.

People are entitled to their thoughts and words even if you don't like them, if you get accused of something that isn't true, it should be easy enough to dispel the accusation. You have accused me of being a terrorist sympathiser multiple times in the past but did I shrink away and cry about it? No I argued my corner and showed you how wrong that accusation was.

If someone accuses you of being racist, it's down to you to defend yourself.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

People are entitled to call people racists if that's how they feel, Brillo. There's no ifs or buts about it. You can blame the world but it's not going to change the fact that everyone is entitled to freedom of speech, it's not a right that's reserved only for a few.

People are entitled to their thoughts and words even if you don't like them, if you get accused of something that isn't true, it should be easy enough to dispel the accusation. You have accused me of being a terrorist sympathiser multiple times in the past but did I shrink away and cry about it? No I argued my corner and showed you how wrong that accusation was.

If someone accuses you of being racist, it's down to you to defend yourself.

No it isn’t - it’s up to you to prove it before you resort to personal insults. At least TS has the honesty and good grace to admit that he doesn’t Know me well enough to make such a sweeping statement.

You on the other hand see your opinion as fact and it isn’t. The burden of proof is the responsibility is on the ‘prosecution’ and if you can’t provide cast iron proof, not just your interpretation of what I have said, but definitive proof your opinion in itself does not justify public personal abuse.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

No it isn’t - it’s up to you to prove it before you resort to personal insults. At least TS has the honesty and good grace to admit that he doesn’t Know me well enough to make such a sweeping statement.

You on the other hand see your opinion as fact and it isn’t. The onus of responsibility is on the ‘prosecution’ and if you can’t provide cast iron proof, not just your interpretation of what I have said, but definitive proof your opinion in itself does not justify public personal abuse.

Right, I'm just gonna say this and I'm done discussing this part of the thread.

You are happy enough to call people remoaners and lefties, you are happy enough to accuse people of being terrorist sympathisers and that they don't like democracy if they voice their opinions about a vote that didn't go the way they wanted.

But you cry foul when people accuse you of racism, even if they justify it.

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/foru...sh+dishes+html

You saw a name and a face and assumed derogatory things about them based on that so , as long as they aren't insulting about it, people can accuse you of racism if they so wish.

It seems to me that this is a case of you being happy enough to dish out accusations and the like but you can't take them in return. You want an uneven playing field where nobody can question your views but you are free to brand people with whatever term you like.

If you seriously want to make a point that being called a racist is an insult then you really need to drop all the terms you bust on people since if racist is considered an insult then most of your phrases are too.

It's a two way street, Brillo. It always has been, you can't complain about things that you are more than guilty of yourself.

I'm done with this branch of the discussion, it will not lead anywhere good.