[poppsywoppsy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Research into detransitioners is blocked for some reason

https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...ersal-research



Scared of the social media reaction, and the reaction of rabid transactivists.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7965281.html



Could it be that certain people just do not want to acknowledge that there are detransitioners and they are not as rare as unicorns like some would have you believe

Surely ANY research into transgender stuff should be welcomed to understand the whole thing better

I think it should be the same as IVF treatment and has to be paid for if there are no medical reasons.

India could well afford her costs but used NHS facilities anyway.

Surely medical needs should be addressed before sexual needs, if money is short isn't this something the LGBT could fund for their members (No pun intended) by starting a fund for those who need help.

By relying on a very stretched NHS service, would this be a self help idea to put forward which could benefit all.

[Bluelight]

Originally Posted by susie q

The NHS has a limited budget, which means that sometimes tough decisions have to be made. Someone is always going to loose out. More money for the NHS isnt always option either, because that would mean paying more NI, tax etc. Speaking as someone who struggles to make ends meet, I would find this difficult, and wouldnt be happy to fund things that dont require treatment for medically recognised conditions. Im happy for transgender to undergo surgery to achieve there goal, but not at someone elses expense.
Perhaps there are other workable solutions out there that they shoould explore.

Be interesting to know your view if you had a son or daughter who was born with gender dysphoria. I guess then it would become very important. I don’t think we can accept that 50% of people with a particulat condition (whatever it is) will die - when a treatment is there. Only 1% of the world population are transgender. So in terms of funding, it’s tiny. How many people who have transitioned do you onow? Puts it in perspective.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Bluelight

You find what you seek on the internet, in terms of studies. We could play tennis all day. I’ll stick with what the accepted medical view is around the globe, from people who know a good study from a bad one. To be blunt. - it’s clear you do not have respect for transgender people, or take them seriously. So no point in exchanging huff and puff counter arguments.

You can think whatever you like. I have a transsexual woman in my family ffs. I just think there obviously needs to be a hell of a lot more research than there is, especially with so many kids these days identifying as trans.

To be clear, I am not saying SRS should not be an option. I am saying proper research needs to go into the whole thing. And yes, research needs to be done on the growing number of detransitioners too.

I also think for the good of transsexual people, they need to be known as transsexual, not transgender. As the transgender group encompasses so many different groups, fetishists and the likes. I don't see why transsexual people should be associated with crossdressers and drag queens and the likes, as they are nothing alike.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Bluelight

Be interesting to know your view if you had a son or daughter who was born with gender dysphoria. I guess then it would become very important. I don’t think we can accept that 50% of people with a particulat condition (whatever it is) will die - when a treatment is there. Only 1% of the world population are transgender. So in terms of funding, it’s tiny. How many people who have transitioned do you onow? Puts it in perspective.

Its not a medical treatment

[Bluelight]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

You can think whatever you like. I have a transsexual woman in my family ffs. I just think there obviously needs to be a hell of a lot more research than there is, especially with so many kids these days identifying as trans.

To be clear, I am not saying SRS should not be an option. I am saying proper research needs to go into the whole thing. And yes, research needs to be done on the growing number of detransitioners too.

I also think for the good of transsexual people, they need to be known as transsexual, not transgender. As the transgender group encompasses so many different groups, fetishists and the likes. I don't see why transsexual people should be associated with crossdressers and drag queens and the likes, as they are nothing alike.

Think you make some good points ❤️

[Bluelight]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Its not a medical treatment

What is it then? It’s listed as a medical condition by the World Health Organisation. You need to see pyscotherapists, doctors, surgeons...you go to hospital.
Tell me why gender dysphoria and the resulting treatment is not medical?

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

I think it should be the same as IVF treatment and has to be paid for if there are no medical reasons.

India could well afford her costs but used NHS facilities anyway.

Surely medical needs should be addressed before sexual needs, if money is short isn't this something the LGBT could fund for their members (No pun intended) by starting a fund for those who need help.

By relying on a very stretched NHS service, would this be a self help idea to put forward which could benefit all.

Totatly agree with IVF should not be funded by the NHS and only plastic surgery after fires,crash .,cancer etc . no nose jobs ,eye lifts, boob reductions ...India stood in the garden talking about the surgeon book of fannys that he chose from ( what a load of BS ) and they fact she took over Ł14,000 for the NHS which could have saved lives ,when as you say he had a good job and could afford to pay

[Bluelight]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Totatly agree with IVF should not be funded by the NHS and only plastic surgery after fires,crash .,cancer etc . no nose jobs ,eye lifts, boob reductions ...India stood in the garden talking about the surgeon book of fannys that he chose from ( what a load of BS ) and they fact she took over Ł14,000 for the NHS which could have saved lives ,when as you say he had a good job and could afford to pay

“He”.

It did save India’s life.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Bluelight

“He”.

It did save India’s life.

India was Jonathon before the op ( We paid for) and during looking at a book which had photos of 20,000 different Mucky Marys in it

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Its not a medical treatment

It is a medical treatment, as its done to relieve dysphoria.

The 50% figure is a bit wrong though, 50% of transpeople will not actually kill themselves. They will attempt to though, which is obviously a problem. Its unclear whether this is because of the sex dysphoria or because of underlying mental health issues that seem extremely prevalent though.

People took the piss when I mentioned my family member before (in a serious debates thread) as it was a long introduction, so I will instead say cousin. She has had hormones for the past 10 years and has had a boob job (paid for herself, before you go off on one) but has had absolutely huge issues finding a suitable therapist to try and work through her issues as apparently they absolutely have to go down the affirmation route. She wants to come to terms with being male, and while she does want genital surgery, her partner says that...bluntly...she wants a penis to shag as she is not a lesbian. So my cousin is between a rock and a hard place, wanting full SRS but if she gets it she will be single. So has been trying to find a counsellor to help her try and get over the dysphoria. And found it ridiculously hard to do so. She does have one now though, but it took forever.

I do not see it the same as gay conversion therapy at all. Gay people are gay. Where male people are male. Female people are female. So basically...gay conversion therapy is trying to get someone to get over what they are. Where therapy to help trans people come to terms with their sex, it trying to help them to come to terms with what they are. So I guess this would be, when equated to gay people, the same as having a counselor to help you accept being gay. Obviously this kind of approach would not work for all trans people, maybe not even many...but the option should be there, and easy to find.

[Bluelight]

Originally Posted by poppsywoppsy

I think it should be the same as IVF treatment and has to be paid for if there are no medical reasons.

India could well afford her costs but used NHS facilities anyway.

Surely medical needs should be addressed before sexual needs, if money is short isn't this something the LGBT could fund for their members (No pun intended) by starting a fund for those who need help.

By relying on a very stretched NHS service, would this be a self help idea to put forward which could benefit all.

Few things. Transgender has nothing to do with sexuality, or needs. This was India’s point about being grouped with LGB.

LGBT is not a union. There is no HQ. You do not pay money in every month.

Honestly, I’m shocked at some of the level of understanding here.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

It is a medical treatment, as its done to relieve dysphoria.

The 50% figure is a bit wrong though, 50% of transpeople will not actually kill themselves. They will attempt to though, which is obviously a problem. Its unclear whether this is because of the sex dysphoria or because of underlying mental health issues that seem extremely prevalent though.

People took the piss when I mentioned my family member before (in a serious debates thread) as it was a long introduction, so I will instead say cousin. She has had hormones for the past 10 years and has had a boob job (paid for herself, before you go off on one) but has had absolutely huge issues finding a suitable therapist to try and work through her issues as apparently they absolutely have to go down the affirmation route. She wants to come to terms with being male, and while she does want genital surgery, her partner says that...bluntly...she wants a penis to shag as she is not a lesbian. So my cousin is between a rock and a hard place, wanting full SRS but if she gets it she will be single. So has been trying to find a counsellor to help her try and get over the dysphoria. And found it ridiculously hard to do so. She does have one now though, but it took forever.

I do not see it the same as gay conversion therapy at all. Gay people are gay. Where male people are male. Female people are female. So basically...gay conversion therapy is trying to get someone to get over what they are. Where therapy to help trans people come to terms with their sex, it trying to help them to get over what they are not. Obviously this kind of approach would not work for all trans people, maybe not even many...but the option should be there, and easy to find.

My point and the subject of this thread and poll is, people can have whatever op they want,as long as they pay for it

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

My point and the subject of this thread and poll is, people can have whatever op they want,as long as they pay for it

I get thats the point of the poll. Just felt I had to reply to that as its false that its not a medical treatment. It clearly is a medical treatment. Jurys out on if it should be actually paid for on the NHS. I don't know how I feel about that myself and do think that this whole thing is going to get worse as the NHS becomes more and more skint.

I think my opinion on this is probably that the therapies and hormones and such should be provided on the NHS. But actual SRS should be means tested. If its deemed to be absolutely necessary and the person cannot afford it then yes, NHS. But if they can afford to pay then thats how it should be.

That opens the door though to many many issues and a whole other debate though. Should everything on the NHS be means tested? Quite possibly, would ease the pressure on the NHS for sure. Either that, or the government can start funding the NHS properly...which is not likely to happen

[Bluelight]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

My point and the subject of this thread and poll is, people can have whatever op they want,as long as they pay for it

Including cancer and heart operations.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Bluelight

Including cancer and heart operations.

Don't be ridiculous .... have you voted in the poll which is about sex change ops, nothing else

[Bluelight]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I get thats the point of the poll. Just felt I had to reply to that as its false that its not a medical treatment. It clearly is a medical treatment. Jurys out on if it should be actually paid for on the NHS. I don't know how I feel about that myself and do think that this whole thing is going to get worse as the NHS becomes more and more skint.

I think my opinion on this is probably that the therapies and hormones and such should be provided on the NHS. But actual SRS should be means tested. If its deemed to be absolutely necessary and the person cannot afford it then yes, NHS. But if they can afford to pay then thats how it should be.

That opens the door though to many many issues and a whole other debate though. Should everything on the NHS be means tested? Quite possibly, would ease the pressure on the NHS for sure. Either that, or the government can start funding the NHS properly...which is not likely to happen

Good post - and very fair I think ❤️

[Bluelight]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Don't be ridiculous .... have you voted in the poll which is about sex change ops, nothing else

So you’re starting point is that dying from a heart condition is worse than dying from gender dysphoria? You are not treating it as the serious situation it is - but on a par with botox or a boob job. It’s not. As the NHS or any medical organisation will tell you.

[Bluelight]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

Don't be ridiculous .... have you voted in the poll which is about sex change ops, nothing else

You love Ann. There is nothing more to say on this matter. And your ridiculous, offensively titled introduction to this thread. Gender Dysphoria IS just as “medical” as cancer or heart treatments, and is not a “fancy.” Don’t forget your copy of the Daily Mail.

[poppsywoppsy]

Originally Posted by Bluelight

Few things. Transgender has nothing to do with sexuality, or needs. This was India’s point about being grouped with LGB.

LGBT is not a union. There is no HQ. You do not pay money in every month.

Honestly, I’m shocked at some of the level of understanding here.

I know it is not, but they do have influence enough to start a fund. But no, let it be a drain on the NHS, when other people have to pay for their procedures.


There is a woman who has crowd funded for her own medical fees for transitioning and other procedures.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...n-surgery.html

She has over Ł21,000 pounds already, now that's the way forward and I respect that woman for her not using the NHS but doing it herself.

So the moral is put your money where your mouth is and cough up.

What's not to like?

[susie q]

Originally Posted by Bluelight

Be interesting to know your view if you had a son or daughter who was born with gender dysphoria. I guess then it would become very important. I don’t think we can accept that 50% of people with a particulat condition (whatever it is) will die - when a treatment is there. Only 1% of the world population are transgender. So in terms of funding, it’s tiny. How many people who have transitioned do you onow? Puts it in perspective.

My opinion wouldnt change, but as mother would support my child and do what I to help them achieve their goal, and would probably look into fund raising loans etc.

So does this mean that you would be happy to give up your sick childs place on the surgical waiting list, so that a transgender person could have there surgery instead? Like I said a limited budget sometimes means making harsh decisions.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Bluelight

So you’re starting point is that dying from a heart condition is worse than dying from gender dysphoria? You are not treating it as the serious situation it is - but on a par with botox or a boob job. It’s not. As the NHS or any medical organisation will tell you.

How bloody dramatic ?

[jaxie]

Of course Ann is right that people who have life threatening illness should come first. While it seems to help in making those with this problem happy, gender reassignment is basically just cosmetic and doesn't in reality 'change sex' so is no more than a band aid. You will not die from gender dysphoria. If you commit suicide, people do that for a variety of reasons.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by susie q

My opinion wouldnt change, but as mother would support my child and do what I to help them achieve their goal, and would probably look into fund raising loans etc.

So does this mean that you would be happy to give up your sick childs place on the surgical waiting list, so that a transgender person could have there surgery instead? Like I said a limited budget sometimes means making harsh decisions.

Exactly my point ,its about priorities and a sex change is not a medical condition and certainly not a priority for NHS money ... If you want this type of op pay for it ....Simples

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

Of course Ann is right that people who have life threatening illness should come first. While it seems to help in making those with this problem happy, gender reassignment is basically just cosmetic and doesn't in reality 'change sex' so is no more than a band aid. You will not die from gender dysphoria. If you commit suicide, people do that for a variety of reasons.

[susie q]

Originally Posted by susie q

My opinion wouldnt change, but as mother would support my child and do what I to help them achieve their goal, and would probably look into fund raising loans etc.

So does this mean that you would be happy to give up your sick childs place on the surgical waiting list, so that a transgender person could have there surgery instead? Like I said a limited budget sometimes means making harsh decisions.

Forgot to add that I am an ex nurse, who once nursed (in her old age) the first ever British person to undergo transition surgery. It wasnt done on the NHS nor did she expect it. She was a lovely, caring, lively lady, who didnt expect everything to be handed to her on a plate, (ok that was probably a generational thing) she led an interesting life, and I was glad to have known her. I dont blame you for making genrelisations about people you dont know, its easy on line, its just not for me. Furthermore Im pretty sure that Im not the onlly one who finds it hard to make ends meet, without paying extra taxes. perhaps you dont work as yet.