[Livia]

Originally Posted by lostalex

If we don't take it literally then how can we hold them accountable? It's a cop out to just let them get away with their violent beliefs if we just say "well maybe they don't believe all of the horrible hate filled violent things in their religion". It's important to hold people accountable for their beliefs.

Most KKK members don't go lynching black people, that doesn't mean that the KKK isn't racist.

I don't personally know anyone, including devout people, who would advocate killing children - or anyone else for that matter. Religious people don't have the monopoly on killing... or on beating children.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't personally know anyone, including devout people, who would advocate killing children - or anyone else for that matter. Religious people don't have the monopoly on killing... or on beating children.

but they do have the monopoly on advocating it. Are there secular people who are abusive? yes. but they don't justify it with their secularism. They don't feel justified for doing it, and they were never Taught to do it in the name of secularism.

Unlike Xtians and Jews and Muslims who are taught that being abusive is okay and even required. They are taught from an early age to be submissive and that anyone who rebels deserves punishment.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by lostalex

but they do have the monopoly on advocating it. Are there secular people who are abusive? yes. but they don't justify it with their secularism. They don't feel justified for doing it, and they were never Taught to do it in the name of secularism.

Unlike Xtians and Jews and Muslims who are taught that being abusive is okay and even required. They are taught from an early age to be submissive and that anyone who rebels deserves punishment.

I was never taught that being abusive is okay - never, ever. So when you say "they", I'm not really sure who you're talking about. Certainly not me... and certainly not anyone I know.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Livia

I was never taught that being abusive is okay - never, ever. So when you say "they", I'm not really sure who you're talking about. Certainly not me... and certainly not anyone I know.

but you were taught that you should be submissive. and that people who don't submit deserve to be punished.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by lostalex

but you were taught that you should be submissive. and that people who don't submit deserve to be punished.

Do I seem submissive to you?

Really Alex, this is a thread about a moron who beat his child till he was bloody. It's got bugger-all to do with me or with religion. There's only one person to blame and that's the idiot who obviously doesn't know right from wrong.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Livia

Do I seem submissive to you?

Really Alex, this is a thread about a moron who beat his child till he was bloody. It's got bugger-all to do with me or with religion. There's only one person to blame and that's the idiot who obviously doesn't know right from wrong.

well i certainly agree with that point, that individuals should be held accountable for their own behavior. you won't hear me disagree with that point.

I was also talking about the larger issue of corporal punishment though, because others brought it up. that's how conversations work Livia, sometimes individual cases lead to larger philosophical issues. I thought we were talking in a more conversational tone, not just specifically about this one guy.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by lostalex

well i certainly agree with that point, that individuals should be held accountable for their own behavior. you won't hear me disagree with that point.

I was also talking about the larger issue of corporal punishment though, because others brought it up. that's how conversations work Livia, sometimes individual cases lead to larger philosophical issues. I thought we were talking in a more conversational tone, not just specifically about this one guy.

Well, beating a child the way he did should end up with him serving time for assault in my opinion. And the contention that people should believe that naughty children should be killed because it says so in the Torah is just ridiculous. As ridiculous as saying you should be stoned to death for planting two different crops in one field, or wearing two different cloths, or cutting your hair, or being gay are all equally ridiculous. These are ancient texts from a time when pagans were making blood sacrifices on a regular basis. It also says in the Torah that I can keep a slave so long as he is not a Jew. It might have been acceptable 5000 years ago but it's not acceptable today. Society moves on and so does religion and the interpretation of texts.