[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Our problem is being too lenient and accepting? I mean one of these guys was a C4 docu about the Jihadi next door, how did that even happen? was it assumed because he was so out in the open about it that he was like a reality star looking for 5 minute of fame...oh look at him with his outrageous views and Isis flag...its just too cute...

But Maru has already explained that in the US, free speech means free speech, and so hate preaching is straight up "allowed" there. doesn't seem to be adding up.

All I see is you making excuses, maybe there in lies the problem? too many liberals making excuses...? I consider myself quite liberal but in my view there is nothing that happens in society that justifies people knifing people on a night out whether that be as part of a gang or as in this case to cause terror there is just no excuses to be made, we don't make excuses for other murderers, I don't know how we can even begin to make excuses for these people, first it was our fault for getting involved in war, now its own our fault for not doing enough to integrate people, English as a second language is taught in every College around me and its generally free!

If you see me making excuses then there is very little point in continuing the discussion because you're arguing against something that isn't happening. I am not making excuses or justifying killings. I am (fruitlessly) trying to get at the root of why these attacks happen so that we (as a society, not us personally on TiBB) might actually stand a chance of reducing the number of attacks and deaths. Unlike most, it seems, I'm not willing to stand stomping my feet, raging into the thunderstorm, screaming at it to "cut it out". All you can see is "excuses"; I feel this is an emotional response. It's not about excuses. Understanding the causes is not about making excuses for those who have already killed - it's about finding solutions to stop more killing. What do people not understand about that? What does anyone actually get out of just mindlessly screeching "BUT I AM ANGRY ABOUT THIS!"? We are all angry. But anger isn't helpful. Directing anger at a community will result in a backlash, will result in young alienated members of that community looking for a sense of belonging elsewhere, and finding a preacher saying "Come over here! You're welcome here!". It's not even complicated, I honestly can't comprehend why people just don't "get it" yet.

as Brillo pointed out some people don't want to integrate they are happy to live in their own communities and not embrace the wider community

But WHY. WHY Cherie. WHY don't they want to integrate, WHY don't they want to embrace the wider community, when as we have discussed, there are countries with immigrants from the same places where they do not have the same problem to the same extent. Stop just "saying stuff that is" and start thinking about the reasons!