General Election on Thursday Dec 12th : Conservative Win

[Marsh.]

TS for new TiBB coder. :clap1:

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/17A1A/production/_110149769_sundaytelegraph.jpg

[Oliver_W]

But denying people a choice definitely is.

Honestly, any right wing/tory that's actively against an indyref for Scotland is an utter indefensible hypocrite given that they will bleat on about the importance of democracy when it comes to Brexit but they won't allow Scotland a chance to make their own decision regarding whether THEY want to exit the UK in light of everything.

Democracy is democracy. denying people the right to vote because you fear the result is the antithesis of democracy.
They've had their choice, and they decided to stay.

Even back then Brexit was on the horizon, I think everyone knew a Brexit ref was coming sooner rather than later, and you don't need tealeaves to know that the UK would vote to leave.

Nothing's come to light which couldn't have been predicted.

[SherzyK]

how do countries speak?

and how do you know what they say :joker:

Look at you getting all defensive. I said they “laughed”, nowhere did I say they spoke about it.

I’m sure you’re wise enough to understand what I meant by that

[Twosugars]

They've had their choice, and they decided to stay.

Even back then Brexit was on the horizon, I think everyone knew a Brexit ref was coming sooner rather than later, and you don't need tealeaves to know that the UK would vote to leave.

Nothing's come to light which couldn't have been predicted.

That's simply untrue. Even Farage expected to lose the referendum.
You are rewriting the past but we dont have amnesia Oliver.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Look at you getting all defensive. I said they “laughed”, nowhere did I say they spoke about it.

I’m sure you’re wise enough to understand what I meant by that

no because its a made up statement

laugh or speak its the same thing

[Twosugars]

no because its a made up statement

laugh or speak its the same thing

It's not made up. Only trump, putin and the far right support brexit.

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELyQeIzW4AM2lc1?format=jpg&name=small
RIP Change UK
and loads of LibDems


LibDems now only have 11MP's

[SherzyK]

no because its a made up statement

laugh or speak its the same thing

It’s only a made-up statement because you choose to see it that way. Soon it will be you wishing the country took a different turn with brexit

Oh and they’re not the same thing. Try again

[Tom4784]

They've had their choice, and they decided to stay.

Even back then Brexit was on the horizon, I think everyone knew a Brexit ref was coming sooner rather than later, and you don't need tealeaves to know that the UK would vote to leave.

Nothing's come to light which couldn't have been predicted.

If you applied the same logic to Brexit then the 2016 vote wouldn't have happened.

It's hypocrisy, pure and simple. If the brexiters were in Scotland's position, they'd be demanding another referendum and would be throwing tantrums over it.

You are basically telling a whole country that didn't vote for Brexit or the current government that they have no stay and suffer with the rest of us and you're daring to defend brexit in the same breath like it's something completely different.

Utter hypocrisy.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It’s only a made-up statement because you choose to see it that way. Soon it will be you wishing the country took a different turn with brexit

Oh and they’re not the same thing. Try again

"The other countries in Europe and around the world laugh at the UK"


Countries do not "laugh" and your post was made up to post something negative as you dont like the result of the election

own what you post

[SherzyK]

"The other countries in Europe and around the world laugh at the UK"


Countries do not "laugh" and your post was made up to post something negative as you dont like the result of the election

own what you post

Do you know what a metaphor is? Or do you just choose to act like a petulant child and ignore it? I think the latter

LeatherTrumpet, you voted for SNP in the elections but your posts in this thread suggest otherwise. I sense some duplicity

[arista]

1206250954749857794



and

1206170658356572160

[SherzyK]

LeatherTrumpet, what’s the point in defending a cause you’re supposed to be against. Did you even watch the elections?

[Twosugars]

https://i.imgur.com/b0VCzs1l.jpg

[arista]

Union Boss Len McCluskey
got it right he told them all not to
do another referendum.

Wise Man.

[Twosugars]

McCluskey needs to go, he is a dinosaur

[arista]

McCluskey needs to go, he is a dinosaur



He is
going to stand down.

[SherzyK]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-bbc-bias-complaint-election-tony-hall-andrew-gwynne-a9236181.html

Probably should of watched Sky in hindsight

[Crimson Dynamo]

Do you know what a metaphor is? Or do you just choose to act like a petulant child and ignore it? I think the latter

LeatherTrumpet, you voted for SNP in the elections but your posts in this thread suggest otherwise. I sense some duplicity

Just don't make stuff up

[SherzyK]

Just don't make stuff up

Nothing was made up, don’t let Boris cloud your judgement. Also...

I never did get an answer to this, LT.

Why defend the Tories and pretty much champion them if they oppose your supposed party's goals? Explain it to me. I'm gonna keep reminding you until you do, after all, I answered your question, I expect the same from you.

???

[arista]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-bbc-bias-complaint-election-tony-hall-andrew-gwynne-a9236181.html

Probably should of watched Sky in hindsight

No Ch4HD Alternate Election Night
was the best

[jet]

A joke of an argument and the only one passing the buck here is you for blaming labour when the problem is that the public are wilfully ignorant of the facts.

Stop defending people's stupidity and being so obsessed with Corbyn that you'll probably continue to blame him for everything for years to come. The public made a decision based on ignorance, the public enabled what was going to happen to happen and the tory voters that allowed this to happen deserve every misery that's coming their way.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink, you can't stop gullible people from wilfully disregarding the facts and believing a known conman over a truth they don't want to hear.

The fault lies in the public for voting for a party that has caused so much suffering for the past 9 years, that has let them down constantly and has installed a proven liar as their leader. The warning signs were all there, the facts were in plain view but the public didn't want to see it. They deserve all the suffering that's coming their way.

Stop defending the ignorant masses, all you are doing is trying to shield them from the consequences of their own actions. You can't blame Labour or Corbyn or anyone else for this, people voted for a majority Tory government. They voted for everything that's coming to them and I will never stop reminding people of that.

You made a choice, now you have to live with it.

I didn't make a choice, we have completely different parties in N.Ireland.

The public voted as they did because Corbyn and his hard left clique were seen as more disastrous for the country than Boris Johnson, and that's saying something. Take your blinkers off. The British public showed just how tuned - in and smart they were. They voted for Boris because they didn't want Corbyn.
But you think Corbyn is blameless and its all the fault of the ignorant masses.
Come on now. :laugh:
And really, by the law of averages its impossible for everyone who voted the Tories, (including former Labour voters) and gave them a landslide victory to be gullible and stupid.

You always have to be right, anyone who doesn't have the same views as you is thick and ignorant. Closed mindedness is a bad debating trait.

[SherzyK]

https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/15/british-muslims-start-leaving-uk-boris-johnson-wins-election-11911078/amp/

[jet]

'Embarrassed' Corbyn Road residents call for street name change.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/embarrassed-corbyn-road-residents-call-17417083

:laugh:

[Twosugars]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-bbc-bias-complaint-election-tony-hall-andrew-gwynne-a9236181.html

Probably should of watched Sky in hindsight

The funny thing is bbc is ****ed under cons.

https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/15/british-muslims-start-leaving-uk-boris-johnson-wins-election-11911078/amp/

This will please a lot of bojo's voters, sadly

[Oliver_W]

https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/15/british-muslims-start-leaving-uk-boris-johnson-wins-election-11911078/amp/

V


When you are posting links to news articles etc it would be very helpful to posters who are using mobiles to view the forum if you could post the relevant part of the article in the thread along with the link as it can take a long time for links to load on phones and alot of times people viewing your threads may not bother to click the link because of that. It would also benefit the thread starter as it might encourage more replies on your thread.
:)

[James]

If you use a CSS resize you can right click the image and view it full size in a new tab :suspect:.

Depends how long ago you had resizing, pre-2014 it could be a pain to get it working in a simple form that didn't have bugs on some browsers, or involve using actual plug-ins but since the full release of HTML5 it's literally one (short) line of CSS on the main sheet :fist:.

I'll have a look at it again sometime. I never saw the problem of just putting a large picture as a link that would open in a new tab, instead of an inline image.

[The Slim Reaper]

4 days apart

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EL2YJtvXYAMbINv?format=jpg&name=medium

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EL2YKOHWsAA-JKP?format=jpg&name=large

[SherzyK]

V


:)

:)

[Calderyon]

English Result via D'Hondt:

Conservative (47.25%): 256
Labour (33.92%): 184
Liberal Dems (12.42%): 67
Green (3.05%): 16
Brexit party (2.03%): 10
Others (0.98%): Not enough votes
Yorkshire (0.11%): Not enough votes
UKIP (0.07%): Not enough votes
Liberal (0.04%): Not enough votes
IGC (0.04%): Not enough votes
Monster RL (0.03%): Not enough votes
CPA (0.02%): Not enough votes
Animal W (0.01%): Not enough votes
SDP (0.01%): Not enough votes
ED (0.01%): Not enough votes
Libertarian (0.01%): Not enough votes
Workers R. (0.00%): Not enough votes
Advance T. (0.00%): Not enough votes

[Twosugars]

Cald, you have a fit prime minister now. And she is very young too.

We're stuck with the fat blond slob.

[Toy Soldier]

Everyone knows that when you start earning and owning you take a keener interest in who is spending your money and so the idealism gets shelved for realism..And everyone knows that obviously no one starts earning until they're 45?

[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/ryTkyhQfEAKSa7xVLeenLw/https/media.fyre.co/xsRPTUKVREOfpWjjVtD7_express.JPG

[Twosugars]

BBC must feel pretty stupid. They sacrificed their impartiality for nothing.

[Tom4784]

I didn't make a choice, we have completely different parties in N.Ireland.

The public voted as they did because Corbyn and his hard left clique were seen as more disastrous for the country than Boris Johnson, and that's saying something. Take your blinkers off. The British public showed just how tuned - in and smart they were. They voted for Boris because they didn't want Corbyn.
But you think Corbyn is blameless and its all the fault of the ignorant masses.
Come on now. :laugh:
And really, by the law of averages its impossible for everyone who voted the Tories, (including former Labour voters) and gave them a landslide victory to be gullible and stupid.

You always have to be right, anyone who doesn't have the same views as you is thick and ignorant. Closed mindedness is a bad debating trait.

There is nothing smart about voting for a party that's worse for the country than the party they're protesting against. That's idiotic. You accuse me of having blinkers but you are essentially promoting the ideology of getting into bed with a frenzied bear in fear of a house spider. Ridiculous.

You cannot spin this in a way that benefits your own agenda. The people were convinced, yet again, to vote against their own interests and they deserve to be called out for the morons they are to allow it to happen time and time again.

There's nothing close minded about what I'm saying, I've explained why I think the way I do while your view is, as it's always been, is tainted by Corbyn to the point where you blame him for the decisions that the public have made. The public chose to disregard the facts at hands, to disregard the nine years of suffering they've gone through under this government, to repeat it all again and reward the Tories a majority. Anyone who would do that is pretty ****ing dumb in my eyes.

We have a Tory majority and that's no one's fault but the public for voting that way and I will criticise the public for being ****ing idiots all I want.

Pretty much everything you accuse me of is fuelled by blatant projection.

[jet]

There is nothing smart about voting for a party that's worse for the country than the party they're protesting against. That's idiotic. You accuse me of having blinkers but you are essentially promoting the ideology of getting into bed with a frenzied bear in fear of a house spider. Ridiculous.

You cannot spin this in a way that benefits your own agenda. The people were convinced, yet again, to vote against their own interests and they deserve to be called out for the morons they are to allow it to happen time and time again.

There's nothing close minded about what I'm saying, I've explained why I think the way I do while your view is, as it's always been, is tainted by Corbyn to the point where you blame him for the decisions that the public have made. The public chose to disregard the facts at hands, to disregard the nine years of suffering they've gone through under this government, to repeat it all again and reward the Tories a majority. Anyone who would do that is pretty ****ing dumb in my eyes.

We have a Tory majority and that's no one's fault but the public for voting that way and I will criticise the public for being ****ing idiots all I want.

Pretty much everything you accuse me of is fuelled by blatant projection.

You don’t believe in the law of averages then? :o
The last 2 tory governments barely scraped through and needed the Lib Dems and the dup respectively to prop them up. Now suddenly, people in their droves, including those who usually vote Labour, give the Tories a landslide victory.

According to you, its because they are idiots; a mass epidemic of ignorance has occurred in the space of just a few years. No, the sensible, intelligent answer is obvious - JEREMY CORBYN and his comrade armchair revolutionary’s promising outlandish goodies to the young people he targeted and who followed him like a cult. Wiser heads looked at him and his history, those who he befriended, his failure to reassure people he would keep their streets safe, his ever more unbelievable manifesto. There is a reason why Labour has languished in opposition for long periods in the last century, but Corbyn and his clique were stupid enough to think that an even more radical programme than usual would work.
They kept making the same mistakes and expecting a different outcome.

As the leader of the party, the failure lies with him. That’s what leaders are supposed to do, lead their team to success! Unless you see him as just a weak figurehead?
The wise general public hadn’t much of a choice. To keep out evil, so to speak, they had to vote for the lesser evil, by far. And they did with bells on.

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1206374344353558528/oFG50GP5?format=jpg&name=small

Watch your backs Civil Servants
a Change is on its way

[The Slim Reaper]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/dwp-slash-amputees-benefits-after-21078208?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

DWP slash amputee's benefits after assessor claims missing foot has 'healed'

An amputee's benefits were cut after an assessor claimed a wound on his non-existent foot had “completely healed”.

Despite the evident error in the Department of Work and Pensions report, Tommy Weir’s £479 a month payments were immediately stopped last month.

Tommy, 56, is just one of thousands of people unjustly targeted by Draconian cuts, which have continued unabated even after a supposed end to eight years of Tory austerity policies in 2018.

The swimming pool manager’s life was changed drastically after a bone infection led to sepsis and an eventual amputation of his leg under the knee in October 2017.

He was initially examined at his home and awarded a Personal Independence Payment as he cannot walk without the aid of a prosthetic leg.

He was assessed by Independent Assessment Services (IAS), previously known as ATOS.

He said of the assessor’s later claim: “The reference to my left foot was either gross incompetence or simply a lie because I don’t have a left foot.

“I honestly believe I’m yet another case where IAS have quotas to fulfil that rely on refusing people’s applications for PIP or other benefits, no matter what kind of disability is put in front of them.”

In the IAS assessment, it is recorded in a “current symptoms” section that “the wound on his left foot has healed”.

Tommy, who has worked at the local authority leisure centre in Renfrew for 35 years, said: “My employers have been great and they have made adaptations at work to allow me to do my job.

“I believe IAS takes the opposite view, that they are set up to take things away, not to help.”

A spokesperson from IAS last night apologised to Tommy.

The spokesperson said: “We are looking into this, we understand this was an error and would like to apologise to Mr Weir, as the wording should have read that his wound had healed.

"We are unable to say if his PIP will be reinstated as it is the DWP who will make that decision.”

A DWP spokesperson said: “PIP is awarded based on someone’s needs arising from a disability or health condition and those needs can change over time with rehabilitation or, in the case of amputees, with the use of prosthetics.

“Decisions are made following consideration of all the information provided, including any assessment report and supporting evidence from a GP or medical specialist. If someone disagrees with the decision, they can of course ask for it to be looked at again.

“Mr Weir has asked us to reconsider our decision and we will contact him as soon as we have looked at his case again.”

https://i2-prod.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article21078213.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/0_JS201061581.jpg

[arista]

Yes Slim
that is wrong.
It appears no one is safe from DWP cuts

[Beso]

There is nothing smart about voting for a party that's worse for the country than the party they're protesting against. That's idiotic. You accuse me of having blinkers but you are essentially promoting the ideology of getting into bed with a frenzied bear in fear of a house spider. Ridiculous.

You cannot spin this in a way that benefits your own agenda. The people were convinced, yet again, to vote against their own interests and they deserve to be called out for the morons they are to allow it to happen time and time again.

There's nothing close minded about what I'm saying, I've explained why I think the way I do while your view is, as it's always been, is tainted by Corbyn to the point where you blame him for the decisions that the public have made. The public chose to disregard the facts at hands, to disregard the nine years of suffering they've gone through under this government, to repeat it all again and reward the Tories a majority. Anyone who would do that is pretty ****ing dumb in my eyes.

We have a Tory majority and that's no one's fault but the public for voting that way and I will criticise the public for being ****ing idiots all I want.

Pretty much everything you accuse me of is fuelled by blatant projection.

Nine years of suffering???

For who?

If anything my life and prospects have increased greatly in the last 8 years...are you saying everyone who voted Tory have suffered for nine years?

[Beso]

Cald, you have a fit prime minister now. And she is very young too.

We're stuck with the fat blond slob.

Who cycles a lot..gets up early and works hour upon hour upon hour for the benifit of others..

Nothing like a slob at all.:nono:

[Oliver_W]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/dwp-slash-amputees-benefits-after-21078208?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

DWP slash amputee's benefits after assessor claims missing foot has 'healed'

An amputee's benefits were cut after an assessor claimed a wound on his non-existent foot had “completely healed”.

Despite the evident error in the Department of Work and Pensions report, Tommy Weir’s £479 a month payments were immediately stopped last month.

Tommy, 56, is just one of thousands of people unjustly targeted by Draconian cuts, which have continued unabated even after a supposed end to eight years of Tory austerity policies in 2018.

The swimming pool manager’s life was changed drastically after a bone infection led to sepsis and an eventual amputation of his leg under the knee in October 2017.

He was initially examined at his home and awarded a Personal Independence Payment as he cannot walk without the aid of a prosthetic leg.

He was assessed by Independent Assessment Services (IAS), previously known as ATOS.

He said of the assessor’s later claim: “The reference to my left foot was either gross incompetence or simply a lie because I don’t have a left foot.

“I honestly believe I’m yet another case where IAS have quotas to fulfil that rely on refusing people’s applications for PIP or other benefits, no matter what kind of disability is put in front of them.”

In the IAS assessment, it is recorded in a “current symptoms” section that “the wound on his left foot has healed”.

Tommy, who has worked at the local authority leisure centre in Renfrew for 35 years, said: “My employers have been great and they have made adaptations at work to allow me to do my job.

“I believe IAS takes the opposite view, that they are set up to take things away, not to help.”

A spokesperson from IAS last night apologised to Tommy.

The spokesperson said: “We are looking into this, we understand this was an error and would like to apologise to Mr Weir, as the wording should have read that his wound had healed.

"We are unable to say if his PIP will be reinstated as it is the DWP who will make that decision.”

A DWP spokesperson said: “PIP is awarded based on someone’s needs arising from a disability or health condition and those needs can change over time with rehabilitation or, in the case of amputees, with the use of prosthetics.

“Decisions are made following consideration of all the information provided, including any assessment report and supporting evidence from a GP or medical specialist. If someone disagrees with the decision, they can of course ask for it to be looked at again.

“Mr Weir has asked us to reconsider our decision and we will contact him as soon as we have looked at his case again.”

https://i2-prod.dailyrecord.co.uk/incoming/article21078213.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/0_JS201061581.jpg

Thank goodness ridiculous mistakes are rare enough to be newsworthy.

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/1240D/production/_110156747_dailymail.jpg

[Oliver_W]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/1240D/production/_110156747_dailymail.jpg

This all sounds pretty good tbh!

Investing in NHS and the North, controlling the borders, culling pointless Cabinet roles, what's not to like?

[Livia]

This all sounds pretty good tbh!

Investing in NHS and the North, controlling the borders, culling pointless Cabinet roles, what's not to like?

Oh no, that can't be good. How can it be good when everyone who voted Conservative is an idiot bent on destroying the NHS and the country. We voted for more austerity. Don't you read this forum, Oliver?

[Oliver_W]

Nine years of suffering???

For who?

If anything my life and prospects have increased greatly in the last 8 years...are you saying everyone who voted Tory have suffered for nine years?
I've never been not working under a Tory government, and I've spent most of that time working in education. I've not seen any noticeable drops in budgets or standards, and I'm getting an unreasonable amount of sick pay aha...


That said, I've always worked in behavioural difficulties units, so they've probably got some form of protected budgets. Plus my illness means I'm currently physically incapable of restraining pupils when needed, so I'd be a chocolate teapot anyway, and they can't exactly fire me for that ...
So I guess all that means it's not generalisable...

[Oliver_W]

Oh no, that can't be good. How can it be good when everyone who voted Conservative is an idiot bent on destroying the NHS and the country. We voted for more austerity. Don't you read this forum, Oliver?

Oh yeah, how could I forget :joker:

[arista]

1206435966577197056

[Livia]

Lord Adonis. A name he could never live up to. It'd be like being called Baroness Wonder Woman.

[arista]

1205314741016641536


She was fighting IDS

[jet]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/1240D/production/_110156747_dailymail.jpg

Looking good. :clap1:

[Crimson Dynamo]

1205314741016641536


She was fighting IDS

:joker:

[Kizzy]

Yep let's all celebrate ids keeping his seat... :/
When all these towns specifically the new northern tory towns are complaining about lack of funding, food bank use and removal of EU grants I'm gonna laugh my arse off.

[Oliver_W]

1205314741016641536


She was fighting IDS

I know how she feels. I couldn't get off the toilet when I was fighting IDS :bawling:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yep let's all celebrate ids keeping his seat... :/
When all these towns specifically the new northern tory towns are complaining about lack of funding, food bank use and removal of EU grants I'm gonna laugh my arse off.

they are not going to and no you wont

[Kizzy]

they are not going to and no you wont

Lets see shall we?

[Tom4784]

You don’t believe in the law of averages then? :o
The last 2 tory governments barely scraped through and needed the Lib Dems and the dup respectively to prop them up. Now suddenly, people in their droves, including those who usually vote Labour, give the Tories a landslide victory.

According to you, its because they are idiots; a mass epidemic of ignorance has occurred in the space of just a few years. No, the sensible, intelligent answer is obvious - JEREMY CORBYN and his comrade armchair revolutionary’s promising outlandish goodies to the young people he targeted and who followed him like a cult. Wiser heads looked at him and his history, those who he befriended, his failure to reassure people he would keep their streets safe, his ever more unbelievable manifesto. There is a reason why Labour has languished in opposition for long periods in the last century, but Corbyn and his clique were stupid enough to think that an even more radical programme than usual would work.
They kept making the same mistakes and expecting a different outcome.

As the leader of the party, the failure lies with him. That’s what leaders are supposed to do, lead their team to success! Unless you see him as just a weak figurehead?
The wise general public hadn’t much of a choice. To keep out evil, so to speak, they had to vote for the lesser evil, by far. And they did with bells on.

There is no point in discussing anything with you, it all begins and ends with Corbyn when it comes to you to the point that his mere presence somehow makes it so that the entire public are not responsible for their own choices because it's all Corbyn's fault. Utterly ridiculous.

People made their choices based on nothing but propaganda, they gave the Tories a landslide win out of nothing but wilful ignorance. I live in Toryville despite the area being working class at heart. I've had poilitical conversations with plenty of people and it all goes the same way, they don't want to hear facts about the Tories that paint them in a bad light and they hate labour because the papers told them to. People are responsible for their own idiotic choices. Many voters chose to be ignorant and so I shall laugh in their faces when their choices bite them in the arse and they suffer the consequences for their ignorance.

Grown ass people made a terrible choice and they will hold the responsibility for that decision and you will not try to alleviate blame from them by blaming a losing party. The information was out there, the facts were damning of the Tories and people chose not to listen. They have no one to blame but themselves.

You speak of 'wiser heads' but I've yet to see anything to support that beyond 'CORBYN BAD! WE BLAME OUR BAD DECISIONS ON HIM!'. It is scapegoating pure and simple, people are responsible for their own votes and when they vote poorly they are free game for criticism.

The reason why Tories have gotten stronger since 2016 is because we are living in an age where the facts no longer matter. We live in a Trump era world where you can ignore facts that go against your beliefs and the idiot rags are becoming more like state propaganda every day. It's not a sudden thing, it didn't happen over night, it's been happening for years and this election is proof of that. People are cattle that willingly voted for the slaughterhouse.

[Tom4784]

Nine years of suffering???

For who?

If anything my life and prospects have increased greatly in the last 8 years...are you saying everyone who voted Tory have suffered for nine years?

If you are of the working or middle class then I simply don't believe you are telling the truth.

[Kazanne]

Are people still throwing things around in here ? I'll come back when it's calmed down and when people accept they cant always win :hee:

[Tom4784]

Are people still throwing things around in here ? I'll come back when it's calmed down and when people accept they cant always win :hee:

Thank you, Kazanne, for providing an example of what's wrong with Tory voters.

This is not a game of football, elections aren't the world cup, you shouldn't be cheering on a party like it's your ****ing football club. It's not a game, you haven't won a single ****ing thing in this election has, no voter has.

It's like the Tory voters are in some sort of cult, they can't be reasoned with, they look at Boris like he's a messiah and they act like this is a victory for them when it's a victory for their overlords that will continue to exploit them.

Political parties should be loyal to the voters, not the other way around. MPs work for the public, we shouldn't kiss their feet like they are gods. Maybe one day, the tory voters will be deprogrammed but I doubt it, they seem to like their chains too much.

[Marsh.]

Are people still throwing things around in here ? I'll come back when it's calmed down and when people accept they cant always win :hee:

I'll come back when posts from The X Factor: The Band thread haven't mistakenly creeped into here. :hee:

[Beso]

If you are of the working or middle class then I simply don't believe you are telling the truth.

And that is your problem....In a nutshell.

Maybe your life is ****, and you need to belittle people's choices and thier reasons for it to make you feel a bit better irl:shrug:

10 years ago I was newly separated living in a one bedroom flat in scotland with little prospects of a new job....I decided to move down to Essex and have been on the up ever since, I'm now renting an affordable house because I get well payed under tory rule.

[Tom4784]

And that is your problem....In a nutshell.

Maybe your life is ****, and you need to belittle people's choices and thier reasons for it to make you feel a bit better irl:shrug:

10 years ago I was newly separated living in a one bedroom flat in scotland with little prospects of a new job....I decided to move down to Essex and have been on the up ever since, I'm now renting an affordable house because I get well payed under tory rule.

I was going to quote that freakout you had in the other thread about people getting personal but it seems like you have the self awareness to edit it to 'bored' at least.

Again, I've got no reason to believe you. I've known so many tory supporters that have convinced themselves that things are good that I can't believe them at their word. They're just speaking the party lines they've been given.

[Oliver_W]

I was going to quote that freakout you had in the other thread about people getting personal but it seems like you have the self awareness to edit it to 'bored' at least.

Again, I've got no reason to believe you. I've known so many tory supporters that have convinced themselves that things are good that I can't believe them at their word. They're just speaking the party lines they've been given.

Why would you not believe Parm? I can believe that someone who buckled down and worked hard is doing okay, while living in a rented home :shrug:

[Beso]

I was going to quote that freakout you had in the other thread about people getting personal but it seems like you have the self awareness to edit it to 'bored' at least.

Again, I've got no reason to believe you. I've known so many tory supporters that have convinced themselves that things are good that I can't believe them at their word. They're just speaking the party lines they've been given.



I don't believe you don't believe me, so we are stuck I guess :shrug:

[Beso]

I might take a picture of all the cash in my wallet I've manged to save this past month...and that's including 2 nights out in london and a hotel

[Crimson Dynamo]

Thank you, Kazanne, for providing an example of what's wrong with Tory voters.

This is not a game of football, elections aren't the world cup, you shouldn't be cheering on a party like it's your ****ing football club. It's not a game, you haven't won a single ****ing thing in this election has, no voter has.

It's like the Tory voters are in some sort of cult, they can't be reasoned with, they look at Boris like he's a messiah and they act like this is a victory for them when it's a victory for their overlords that will continue to exploit them.

Political parties should be loyal to the voters, not the other way around. MPs work for the public, we shouldn't kiss their feet like they are gods. Maybe one day, the tory voters will be deprogrammed but I doubt it, they seem to like their chains too much.


This is a somewhat ironic post given that a few days ago on this thread you posted

The only good thing to come out of all of this is the thought that I'm gonna be telling Tory voters 'I told you so' so much over these next few years.

It's going to be fun to watch these people suffer for their mistakes and remind them that they only have themselves to blame, after all, they have no minor or hung governments to blame. They got what they wanted, a Tory majority, and they will get everything they deserve for it.

[Beso]

Talking of football club politics.....oh oh jer-emy corbyn...oh oh jer-emy corbyn..


At a labour conference as well...rofl

[Tom4784]

This is a somewhat ironic post given that a few days ago on this thread you posted

Aww, an adorable attempt at a 'gotcha' moment but, as always, it hasn't worked.

I hate what voters have decided upon, it doesn't come down to loyalty to me, I'm smart enough to not be loyal to any party as I'll vote depending on whether a party's policies support my views. but most Tory voters look at politics like a sport, they are loyal to their 'clubs' to their detriment and I shall mock them for it.

Now why don't you go back to doing what you do best, mocking teenagers with Asperger's while pretending you could ever have the moral highground against me.

[Twosugars]

And that is your problem....In a nutshell.

Maybe your life is ****, and you need to belittle people's choices and thier reasons for it to make you feel a bit better irl:shrug:

10 years ago I was newly separated living in a one bedroom flat in scotland with little prospects of a new job....I decided to move down to Essex and have been on the up ever since, I'm now renting an affordable house because I get well payed under tory rule.

Yeah never mind the country is going to ****. :thumbs:

[Beso]

Yeah never mind the country is going to ****. :thumbs:

It's not though.

[Tom4784]

It's not though.

Tell that to people on the poverty line, tell that to an NHS at breaking point, tell that to the vulnerable people on benefits who are getting themselves deeper into debt and poverty through a predatory system. Tell that to other public services that have been so stripped back that they can barely function.

[arista]

Parliament is Live Tomorrow
at 2:15PM

[arista]

New Sec. Of Wales
is MP Simon Hart.

First Appointment for the PM


https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/6watYPV2dOGUTl3E0kSzAA/https/media.fyre.co/ak8Ka5tRYWZUfPsWGI3G_hart1.jpeg

[Cherie]

I don't get the .. I will laugh in their faces when x and y are cut and I can't wait to rub their noses in it, I thought lefties were suppose to care deeply about their fellow man, I doubt anyone thought they were voting against their own interests by not voting Labour, they voted for what they thought was in their best interests obviously, whether it will pan out to be that remains to be seen :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I don't get the .. I will laugh in their faces when x and y are cut and I can't wait to rub their noses in it, I thought lefties were suppose to care deeply about their fellow man, I doubt anyone thought they were voting against their own interests by not voting Labour, they voted for what they thought was in their best interests obviously, whether it will pan out to be that remains to be seen :laugh:

totally agree its bitter and nasty and is undemocratic

[arista]

Nicky Morgan keeps culture job and gets peerage

["The Rt Hon Nicky Morgan has been
confirmed as Secretary of State
for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport,
" is the latest announcement
from Downing Street.]

Lucky Her,

[smudgie]

Nicky Morgan keeps culture job and gets peerage

["The Rt Hon Nicky Morgan has been
confirmed as Secretary of State
for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport,
" is the latest announcement
from Downing Street.]

Lucky Her,

I thought she was going to quit.:shrug:

[bots]

I thought she was going to quit.:shrug:

she did quit as an mp. She is going to the unelected house of lords and retain a cabinet position. Good work if you can get it

[smudgie]

she did quit as an mp. She is going to the unelected house of lords and retain a cabinet position. Good work if you can get it

Very nice.

[Tom4784]

I don't get the .. I will laugh in their faces when x and y are cut and I can't wait to rub their noses in it, I thought lefties were suppose to care deeply about their fellow man, I doubt anyone thought they were voting against their own interests by not voting Labour, they voted for what they thought was in their best interests obviously, whether it will pan out to be that remains to be seen :laugh:

I care deeply about public services and the NHS and this vote has shown that most voters simply do not. There's nothing I can do now about anything but you can be sure that when the worst happens and the tory voters that allowed it to happen starts to feel the burn, I will make sure they know they did this to themselves. It's about accountability. I'm not going to hug a tory voter that's basically voted for the decimation of the public services when it happpens, I'm gonna let them know that they got what they voted for.

It would be lovely if it's all sunshine and rainbows and I'm wrong, but I'm not going to be wrong. I wasn't wrong about Brexit being a ****show, I wasn't wrong about the damage the Tories have done since Brexit and before and I won't be wrong now because I pay attention to the facts and the facts have never supported the Tories. Hopes and prayers mean jack**** when the NHS is on it's last legs, there's not enough funding for the police to effectively do their jobs and you've got people killing themselves on benefits because a system that's supposed to help them is entrapping them in a vicious cycle.

totally agree its bitter and nasty and is undemocratic

It's undemocratic to voice an opinion? Is that what you're choosing to go with? Really?

[Kizzy]

I don't get the .. I will laugh in their faces when x and y are cut and I can't wait to rub their noses in it, I thought lefties were suppose to care deeply about their fellow man, I doubt anyone thought they were voting against their own interests by not voting Labour, they voted for what they thought was in their best interests obviously, whether it will pan out to be that remains to be seen :laugh:

Lefties are meant to care deeply? Is that opposed to right wingers that don't give a ****?...
Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind, yes we will see cuts will be hard and deep they have the votes to get anything they want through. They'll make the bedroom tax look like a Christmas present!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Lefties are meant to care deeply? Is that opposed to right wingers that don't give a ****?...
Turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind, yes we will see cuts will be hard and deep they have the votes to get anything they want through. They'll make the bedroom tax look like a Christmas present!

Sorry, what?

Stop insulting genuine voters

[Tom4784]

Sorry, what?

Stop insulting genuine voters

I'm still confused as to why a supposed SNP voter is defending a regime that inherently opposes the SNP's M.O. For someone who tried to attack me over democracy, you'll never get the democratic vote that Scotland is crying out for, that you supposedly voted for, by defending tories.

Making out that being displeased with the Tories is somehow undemocratic is a very odd stance for an SNP voter to take since being displeased with the Tories is a large part of why the SNP are so successful.

[Twosugars]

I'm still confused as to why a supposed SNP voter is defending a regime that inherently opposes the SNP's M.O. For someone who tried to attack me over democracy, you'll never get the democratic vote that Scotland is crying out for, that you supposedly voted for, by defending tories.

Making out that being displeased with the Tories is somehow undemocratic is a very odd stance for an SNP voter to take since being displeased with the Tories is a large part of why the SNP are so successful.

:clap1:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm still confused as to why a supposed SNP voter is defending a regime that inherently opposes the SNP's M.O. For someone who tried to attack me over democracy, you'll never get the democratic vote that Scotland is crying out for, that you supposedly voted for, by defending tories.

Making out that being displeased with the Tories is somehow undemocratic is a very odd stance for an SNP voter to take since being displeased with the Tories is a large part of why the SNP are so successful.

I don't like insulting people for having different views . It's why I expose your hateful views each day and those who apologise for you.

[Oliver_W]

I'm still confused as to why a supposed SNP voter is defending a regime that inherently opposes the SNP's M.O. For someone who tried to attack me over democracy, you'll never get the democratic vote that Scotland is crying out for, that you supposedly voted for, by defending tories.

You can like a party and its leader without agreeing with every single aim it has :shrug:

You can also like more than one party, but you only get one vote.

You can also dislike a party but think droning on about how evil and nasty its voters are is a bit distasteful.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You can like a party and its leader without agreeing with every single aim it has :shrug:

You can also like more than one party, but you only get one vote.

You can also dislike a party but think droning on about how evil and nasty its voters are is a bit distasteful.

Indeed Olli. I lived in London for 15 years. I can support west ham and rangers. Members need to open their minds and not be so closeted and Partizan. I hope my inclusive political approach will be an inspiration for members like Two Dezzy. That's us my hope, going forward :)

[Tom4784]

I don't like insulting people for having different views . It's why I expose your hateful views each day and those who apologise for you.

Remember when you made out that a child with aspergers was troubled because you didn't like her environmental message? You do not have the moral highground so stop trying to use it.

You can like a party and its leader without agreeing with every single aim it has :shrug:

You can also like more than one party, but you only get one vote.

You can also dislike a party but think droning on about how evil and nasty its voters are is a bit distasteful.

That's a cop out and it doesn't make sense, SNP and the Tories are as far removed as you can possibly get. SNP is essentially an anti-tory party for a lot of Scottish voters. It'd be like supporting the Lib Dems and the Brexit Party, they represent polar opposites and you cannot reconcile the two.

LT is on the defensive when it comes to the Tory party, I've not seen him voice much support at all for the SNP's goals but plenty of support for the Tories since the election and from before. It just doesn't add up.

He questioned me about my vote and my beliefs and when I answered and asked him the same, he ran away from the discussion and has avoided it since and now he accuses me of being 'nasty' for pointing out a discrepancy that he refuses to acknowledge.

[James]

I think people here are forgetting the SNP are an actual nationalist party.

[Kizzy]

Sorry, what?

Stop insulting genuine voters
Hey I'm a lefty I'm supposed to care ...but I'm trying really hard not to.

[Twosugars]

Indeed Olli. I lived in London for 15 years. I can support west ham and rangers. Members need to open their minds and not be so closeted and Partizan. I hope my inclusive political approach will be an inspiration for members like Two Dezzy. That's us my hope, going forward :)

So you support brexit and are against brexit? :laugh:

Pull another one

[Marsh.]

Indeed Olli. I lived in London for 15 years. I can support west ham and rangers. Members need to open their minds and not be so closeted and Partizan. I hope my inclusive political approach will be an inspiration for members like Two Dezzy. That's us my hope, going forward :)

Or rather... your political leanings and your opinions change depending on the thread?

[Tom4784]

I think people here are forgetting the SNP are an actual nationalist party.

And they vehemently oppose the Tories which is why I made the comparison between Lib Dems and the Brexit Party.

SNP is synonymous with the desire for Scottish independence and it's become the de facto anti-tory party in Scotland. I do not think it's possible to genuinely support both them and the tories. Their ultimate goals, as it stands, are ultimately opposed.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think people here are forgetting the SNP are an actual nationalist party.

Precisely

[Oliver_W]

That's a cop out and it doesn't make sense, SNP and the Tories are as far removed as you can possibly get. SNP is essentially an anti-tory party for a lot of Scottish voters. It'd be like supporting the Lib Dems and the Brexit Party, they represent polar opposites and you cannot reconcile the two.

Which policies of the SNP clash most with the Tories?
Obviously apart from Brexit and Scottish independence - I doubt the SNP are a single issue party when they're Scotland's main party.

From what I've heard hear and there, they're fairly centre-right, and (apart from independence and Brexit) nothing from the SNP would be out of place in the current Tories.

[Crimson Dynamo]

And they vehemently oppose the Tories which is why I made the comparison between Lib Dems and the Brexit Party.

SNP is synonymous with the desire for Scottish independence and it's become the de facto anti-tory party in Scotland. I do not think it's possible to genuinely support both them and the tories. Their ultimate goals, as it stands, are ultimately opposed.

Bit rich from a died in the wool Lib Dem voter like you are

[Tom4784]

Indeed Olli. I lived in London for 15 years. I can support west ham and rangers. Members need to open their minds and not be so closeted and Partizan. I hope my inclusive political approach will be an inspiration for members like Two Dezzy. That's us my hope, going forward :)

Again with the political/sports comparisons. Parties are not teams to support and pledge loyalty to. It's a dangerous cultish attitude to have towards politics that should be completely discouraged.

You can't support polar opposite stances on issues, it's simply not possible. You are being disingenuous.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Again with the political/sports comparisons. Parties are not teams to support and pledge loyalty to. It's a dangerous cultish attitude to have towards politics that should be completely discouraged.

You can't support polar opposite stances on issues, it's simply not possible. You are being disingenuous.

You don't understand sport, it's ok but others do

[Twosugars]

Which policies of the SNP clash most with the Tories?
Obviously apart from Brexit and Scottish independence - I doubt the SNP are a single issue party when they're Scotland's main party.

From what I've heard hear and there, they're fairly centre-right, and (apart from independence and Brexit) nothing from the SNP would be out of place in the current Tories.

SNP are centre left not right.

Brexit issue is central to all other policies and these two are directly opposed.

You cant be in favour of brexit and vote to in fact rejoin the EU like snp promises.

[Twosugars]

You don't understand sport, it's ok but others do

And you scored an own goal mate :joker:

[Tom4784]

Bit rich from a died in the wool Lib Dem voter like you are

I've voted labour for the past two elections. I've pledged never again to vote for Lib Dems after they sold their souls for the coalition with the Tories. I will likely go with my gut in future and vote Green even though they have no hope of winning simply because I'm tired of trying to change the status quo. I'd rather go with Green because I often agree with their stances but considered voting for them to be a waste because this election has proved that it's a waste to vote for anything other than Tories as we have become a single party state.

See? I answered your accusation and completely demolished it, now why don't you try to solve the discrepency I've pointed out between your words and your supposed actions.

[Crimson Dynamo]

SNP are centre left not right.

Brexit issue is central to all other policies and these two are directly opposed.

You cant be in favour of brexit and vote to in fact rejoin the EU like snp promises.

You can have any view you wish, how on earth can you tell people you can't?

Awful

[Oliver_W]

I've pledged never again to vote for Lib Dems after they sold their souls for the coalition with the Tories.

Why? That's like never voting for Labour again because of Tony Blair's war crimes. I think we all know which has been the worst!
How many Lib Dem MPs do you think will be standing in the next election who were in the Coalition even made the decision?

[Cherie]

I care deeply about public services and the NHS and this vote has shown that most voters simply do not. There's nothing I can do now about anything but you can be sure that when the worst happens and the tory voters that allowed it to happen starts to feel the burn, I will make sure they know they did this to themselves. It's about accountability. I'm not going to hug a tory voter that's basically voted for the decimation of the public services when it happpens, I'm gonna let them know that they got what they voted for.

It would be lovely if it's all sunshine and rainbows and I'm wrong, but I'm not going to be wrong. I wasn't wrong about Brexit being a ****show, I wasn't wrong about the damage the Tories have done since Brexit and before and I won't be wrong now because I pay attention to the facts and the facts have never supported the Tories. Hopes and prayers mean jack**** when the NHS is on it's last legs, there's not enough funding for the police to effectively do their jobs and you've got people killing themselves on benefits because a system that's supposed to help them is entrapping them in a vicious cycle.



It's undemocratic to voice an opinion? Is that what you're choosing to go with? Really?

One of the few policies in the Tory manifesto is to invest in the NHS, and put police officers back on the street, the manifesto was pretty light in content so the few things they did ‘promise’ resonated with voters, they didn’t promise another 9 years of austerity, Johnson and Co very cleverly distanced themselves from the last 9 years and promised investment, so it’s not like voters voted for the status quo, plus many wanted Brexit done which only the Tories were offering

[Marsh.]

Boris hasn't quite decided where he stands on the NHS since he gives a different answer every time the question is asked. A clear sign of a good leader and not at all a sign of a dangerous liar.

[jet]

There is no point in discussing anything with you, it all begins and ends with Corbyn when it comes to you to the point that his mere presence somehow makes it so that the entire public are not responsible for their own choices because it's all Corbyn's fault. Utterly ridiculous.

People made their choices based on nothing but propaganda, they gave the Tories a landslide win out of nothing but wilful ignorance. I live in Toryville despite the area being working class at heart. I've had poilitical conversations with plenty of people and it all goes the same way, they don't want to hear facts about the Tories that paint them in a bad light and they hate labour because the papers told them to. People are responsible for their own idiotic choices. Many voters chose to be ignorant and so I shall laugh in their faces when their choices bite them in the arse and they suffer the consequences for their ignorance.

Grown ass people made a terrible choice and they will hold the responsibility for that decision and you will not try to alleviate blame from them by blaming a losing party. The information was out there, the facts were damning of the Tories and people chose not to listen. They have no one to blame but themselves.

You speak of 'wiser heads' but I've yet to see anything to support that beyond 'CORBYN BAD! WE BLAME OUR BAD DECISIONS ON HIM!'. It is scapegoating pure and simple, people are responsible for their own votes and when they vote poorly they are free game for criticism.

The reason why Tories have gotten stronger since 2016 is because we are living in an age where the facts no longer matter. We live in a Trump era world where you can ignore facts that go against your beliefs and the idiot rags are becoming more like state propaganda every day. It's not a sudden thing, it didn't happen over night, it's been happening for years and this election is proof of that. People are cattle that willingly voted for the slaughterhouse.


So the area you live in has some stupid people, in your opinion, and that automatically means that the millions who voted Tory are cattle, idiots, are full of wilful ignorance and have only themselves to blame. Probably a small percentage were clueless, by that law of averages that you don't believe in.
However, one man, Corbyn, the Saint, whose job it was to win an election is completely blameless according to you and isn't responsible at all for the dodgy views he holds that worried decent people and the choices he made that led to his party failing those who supported him miserably...

That makes no sense at all, in fact your views are just childish churlishness....and the way you portray anyone who doesn't think like you do is hateful and spiteful. I just can't with you...:inamood:

[Tom4784]

Why? That's like never voting for Labour again because of Tony Blair's war crimes. I think we all know which has been the worst!
How many Lib Dem MPs do you think will be standing in the next election who were in the Coalition even made the decision?

Lib Dems have never recovered from that coalition in my eyes and every leader they've had since Clegg has been underwhelming and their policies even more so. I just don't really believe in them. The party has no direction other than stopping Brexit and I honestly can't bring myself to care about Brexit anymore. It'll happen, it'll be horrible and that's that. I'll never say never on voting Lib Dem but they've got a lot to do before I'd consider giving them my vote again.

Green has been the party I've identified most with but never could bring myself to vote for since I didn't want to waste my vote, this election convinced me that every vote that isn't for the Tory is a wasted vote so I'm better off following my heart.

[Tom4784]

One of the few policies in the Tory manifesto is to invest in the NHS, and put police officers back on the street, the manifesto was pretty light in content so the few things they did ‘promise’ resonated with voters, they didn’t promise another 9 years of austerity, Johnson and Co very cleverly distanced themselves from the last 9 years and promised investment, so it’s not like voters voted for the status quo, plus many wanted Brexit done which only the Tories were offering

It doesn't exactly fill me with confidence for the public that they want to 'get brexit done' when by all accounts it'll be a disaster. It's just what I've been saying all along really, facts and qualified analysis does not matter to voters.

Trusting a Tory manifesto is utterly foolish considering the past nine years, the only way Boris' administration will be different is that it'll probably be even more shambolic then what came before. The fact that they scored a majority after so many screw ups is what fuels my disdain for the voting public. They are incapable of learning.

[Tom4784]

So the area you live in has some stupid people, in your opinion, and that automatically means that the millions who voted Tory are cattle, idiots, are full of wilful ignorance and have only themselves to blame. Probably a small percentage were clueless, by that law of averages that you don't believe in.
However, one man, Corbyn, the Saint, whose job it was to win an election is completely blameless according to you and isn't responsible at all for the dodgy views he holds that worried decent people and the choices he made that led to his party failing those who supported him miserably...

That makes no sense at all, in fact your views are just childish churlishness....and the way you portray anyone who doesn't think like you do is hateful and spiteful. I just can't with you...:inamood:

Does the day begin and end with Corbyn in your eyes? I haven't seen you make one post in which you haven't included him whether it makes sense to or not. You say I make him out to be a saint but I've only ever mentioned him when you've tried to shove him down my throat. Corbyn is old news, deal with the fact you're gonna have to try and find a new scapegoat to blame everything on.

You just can't accept that people made a choice and they are responsible for that choice and I can have whatever opinion I like on that choice. It's always Corbyn's fault with you and it's boring. Grown adults are responsible for their own choices and I can hold them accountable for those choices. You're the one that can't accept that view point which is why you're screaming that I'm childish when you're doing nothing but feeding your Corbyn obsession and projecting your issues onto me.

You can't blame an outside force for your own decisions, you can't shield the nation from the consequences of their actions by placing them at the feet of Corbyn. That's the difference between me and you, the Tories are scum but I don't hold them responsible for winning, it was the people that made the choice to give them a majority. The only thing a party can do is make an argument and hope for votes. The Tory arguments and manifesto reeked of bull****, had many holes poked in them by fact checkers and analysts and more yet the people still voted for them since they wanted to believe a fantasy over reality and I will continue to criticise the public for making such a poor decision because, ultimately, they made that decision, it wasn't any party or one person that won the election. The public decided, so they have to shoulder the responsibility for what they've enabled.

That viewpoint is certainly less childish than 'CORBYN IS TO BLAME FOR EVERY BAD THING THAT HAPPENS!' so if you're gonna try and throw insults around, make sure you aren't projecting first.

[jet]

Does the day begin and end with Corbyn in your eyes? I haven't seen you make one post in which you haven't included him whether it makes sense to or not. You say I make him out to be a saint but I've only ever mentioned him when you've tried to shove him down my throat. Corbyn is old news, deal with the fact you're gonna have to try and find a new scapegoat to blame everything on.

You just can't accept that people made a choice and they are responsible for that choice and I can have whatever opinion I like on that choice. It's always Corbyn's fault with you and it's boring. Grown adults are responsible for their own choices and I can hold them accountable for those choices. You're the one that can't accept that view point which is why you're screaming that I'm childish when you're doing nothing but feeding your Corbyn obsession and projecting your issues onto me.

You can't blame an outside force for your own decisions, you can't shield the nation from the consequences of their actions by placing them at the feet of Corbyn. That's the difference between me and you, the Tories are scum but I don't hold them responsible for winning, it was the people that made the choice to give them a majority. The only thing a party can do is make an argument and hope for votes. The Tory arguments and manifesto reeked of bull****, had many holes poked in them by fact checkers and analysts and more yet the people still voted for them since they wanted to believe a fantasy over reality and I will continue to criticise the public for making such a poor decision because, ultimately, they made that decision, it wasn't any party or one person that won the election. The public decided, so they have to shoulder the responsibility for what they've enabled.

That viewpoint is certainly less childish than 'CORBYN IS TO BLAME FOR EVERY BAD THING THAT HAPPENS!' so if you're gonna try and throw insults around, make sure you aren't projecting first.

Apart from your Saint Corbyn. (bolded part). :hee:

.... and your never - ending theme is insulting those who don't agree with you over and over again.. Tory voters and Leavers are stupid, idiots, have mass ignorance, they are sheep. Always clutching their Pearls, yadda yadda.
At least my disdain is for one person for my own valid reasons, your disdain is for millions you know nothing about, other than they voted differently to you.

I certainly dislike Corbyn intensely for my own reasons, but I don't think 'he is to blame for every bad thing that happens' in the world; shouting that makes you sound like a petulant child.
I will not be looking for another 'scapegoat' as you put it, there is no - one else I dislike enough to bother - I don't have time to sit here posting much, so when I do I make it count, for me... and I wasn't shoving him down your throat - you responded to me in a post I made to someone else, which started our dialogue in the first place. :nono:

Soon, he'll be completely irrelevant, a passing has -been, shoved to the back benches he should never have left - and when he did it was to the horror of many of his Labour peers - but meanwhile I'm enjoying his utter humiliation and defeat, which was richly deserved. I'm not enjoying the disappointment of his decent Labour supporters; they deserve a new leader who isn't anything like the horror that Corbyn was.
But oh did the old goat get his comeuppance at last - in spades! Happy days! :dance:

[Tom4784]

Apart from your Saint Corbyn. (bolded part). :hee:

.... and your never - ending theme is insulting those who don't agree with you over and over again.. Tory voters and Leavers are stupid, idiots, have mass ignorance, they are sheep. Always clutching their Pearls, yadda yadda.
At least my disdain is for one person for my own valid reasons, your disdain is for millions you know nothing about, other than they voted differently to you.

I certainly dislike Corbyn intensely for my own reasons, but I don't think 'he is to blame for every bad thing that happens' in the world; shouting that makes you sound like a petulant child.
I will not be looking for another 'scapegoat' as you put it, there is no - one else I dislike enough to bother - I don't have time to sit here posting much, so when I do I make it count, for me... and I wasn't shoving him down your throat - you responded to me in a post I made to someone else, which started our dialogue in the first place. :nono:

Soon, he'll be completely irrelevant, a passing has -been, shoved to the back benches he should never have left - and when he did it was to the horror of many of his Labour peers - but meanwhile I'm enjoying his utter humiliation and defeat, which was richly deserved. I'm not enjoying the disappointment of his decent Labour supporters; they deserve a new leader who isn't anything like the horror that Corbyn was.
But oh did the old goat get his comeuppance at last - in spades! Happy days! :dance:

Shock horror, your first sentence is about Corbyn and you're still trying to paint me as revering him as some kind of saint when I clearly say that he's old news. You are determined to push a certain narrative and it's just sad at this point. Corbyn this, Corbyn that, this conversation is a ****ing bore.

I do not even know why you're basically ranting at me about him either and quite frankly, it's weird.

You are refusing to let millions take responsibility for their own actions because you want your obsession to be held solely responsible which is foolishness. How can you call me childish in a previous post and yet believe people aren't accountable for their own decisions?

My disdain is simple and justifiable, most people that voted Tory inevitably voted against themselves and people more vulnerable then they are and they ignored plenty of red flags that told them as much because they have a weird cultish love for the Tories that borders on worship and to them, the Tories can do no wrong. I don't really blame the rich and the upper classes for voting Tory, it benefits them to do so but anyone that is working class and votes Tory is essentially taking a blade to their own wrist and watching themselves bleed. I can't stand such foolishness so I will criticise such decisions, as is my right to do so.

If you don't like that, tough ****. If it even looks like your next post is another rant about Corbyn then I won't bother reading it. I'm not enabling your obsession.

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/13B63/production/_110193708_telegraph.jpg

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/CBB5/production/_110194125_4cf0f4ab-62ba-402e-8339-49e891074d80.jpg

[Ammi]

...this is a very interesting article...it’s one of many which I’ve been reading this morning ...it’s written by Francesca Newton, a freelance Jewish journalist...and it supports Dezzy’s thoughts that ‘many will vote against their own self interest’...I’m finding it fascinating because by the many articles I’ve read, it seems like it’s a common theory that has been greatly researched in the past...one of the main things that is touched on here in the article which is something that I find difficult to understand...is why so much that has been criticises and scrutinised with Corbyn...has been overlooked with Johnson....this is a man who has voiced prejudice to many section of society...and his father believes the U.K. voter as a generalisation to be illiterate ...obviously there were many voters capable of doing ‘x’ marks the spot, so all was well and good for his son...

The article...

I’m Jewish And I Fear Living In A Country Led By Boris Johnson

I’m Jewish. I’ve talked, written and thought about that fact and its implications probably more in the last two months than I expected to in my whole career.

Two years ago, being Jewish didn’t feel like a political issue. But over the course of this election, Judaism and anti-Semitism were forced into an uncomfortable political spotlight by a media and an electorate that seemed to have suddenly decided they cared very, very strongly about the wellbeing of jews.

The spotlight has been hot. While those of us who supported Labour were hurt as cases of internal anti-Semitism came to light, worse to watch by far was the co-option of Jewish concerns about Labour by the Conservatives.

To Johnson, Jewish fear presented an opportunity to pop on a cheap mask of anti-racism. You don’t need me to recount the things that the prime minister has said and written – you know about the “letterboxes” and the “picanninies”, so you know that concern for minorities isn’t really on his radar. If you need more evidence that his concern for Jews, specifically, is a farce, just think about the fact that he’s publicly aligned himself with a US president who thinks that neo-nazis carrying torches and chanting “Jews will not replace us” are “very fine people”.

Nonetheless, people were apparently convinced. Various high-ranking Jewish officials and institutions including Chief Rabbi Ephraim Mirvis, the Jewish Chronicle and the Board of Deputies came out against Labour. The gentile public were urged to support the Jewish cause by voting Tory.

Rabbi Mirvis and the JC are entitled to their political views. They’re entitled, too, to speak them on a public platform. What they did, however, was present a homogenised picture of Jewish political sentiment, despite Jewish politics being as varied and complex as that of the rest of the nation. This homogenisation was then amplified by the mainstream press who, because of their already entrenched opposition to Corbyn, happily touted a narrative of a collective Jewish hatred of Labour.

Some of us tried to fight it. Various Jewish organisations aimed to draw attention to the ridiculous irony of Johnson characterising himself as an anti-racist option. Jews have historically been heavily involved with progressive politics, and this year was no different: left-wing Jews canvassed, published articles, wrote to newspapers. We were widely ignored.

Thanks to our community leaders and our national media, the story will stand that Jews, in the 2019 election, were decidedly in the Conservative camp.

Labour lost – spectacularly and heartbreakingly – and the consequences seem evident. Pressure on public services will continue to increase. Poverty levels will continue to rise. More people will become homeless. Multi-national corporations will continue to shirk their social and environmental responsibility. And Brexit almost definitely won’t be done by the end of 2020.

People, soon, are going to be angry, and they’ll want someone to be angry at.

Common anti-Semitic tropes revolve around Jews being rich, greedy, money-grabbers who manipulate global affairs without accountability. When Jews are depicted as unanimously supporting a party that is also generally believed to represent the rich and powerful, these tropes come all too easily to mind. A theory of Jewish conspiracy to keep the rich rich and the poor poor by blocking the first truly socialist national project in decades writes itself.

Many people who voted Conservative in this election did so against their own interests. When they come to ask themselves in whose interests they voted for, they may find an answer that seems to validate centuries-old stereotypes.

That puts Jewish existence truly in danger.

In fact, it’s already happening. Ken Livingstone was the first public figure to observe on Twitter that “the Jewish vote wasn’t very helpful” in Thursday night’s results. He was criticised widely for it, but this kind of sentiment is likely to become increasingly commonplace in coming weeks, as frustration with the new government grows.

What anti–Semitism already existed on the left will be amplified. But if the Jewish establishment look to Johnson for continued support, they will be disappointed. With the election won, it’s no longer in the Tories’ interests to feign concern about racism. Johnson’s most extreme right-wing followers are galvanised.

The reality is that British Jews’ leading figures and institutions fell shamefully easily for a false display of tolerance by a man famous for his lack of it. They have shown incredible myopia in aligning the British Jewish community with a right wing whose general disdain for minority groups does not exclude us – the opposite, in fact – and in creating a false image of a collective Jewish opposition to progressive, egalitarian political projects.

For this, regardless of personal politics, we are all going to pay the price. I wasn’t scared by the thought of a Corbyn-led government, but I am scared now.

Francesca Newton is a freelance journalist.


https://uk.news.yahoo.com/boris-johnson-election-130306832.html


...(..it’s a long article, but a very interesting read...)..

[bots]

i knew very quickly that none of the parties were going to deliver what i consider to be acceptable policy. I refused to fall into the trap of voting for the least worse option, so I actively chose not to vote. Clearly, someone has to win, but I can at least live with my own decisions

[Niamh.]

Deleted some posts in here, can you all please try to stick to the topic and stop getting personal

[arista]

Deleted some posts in here, can you all please try to stick to the topic and stop getting personal

Thank you for your Hard Work
and Time.

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1206688360393261060/PbFW2ces?format=jpg&name=small
Yesterday
: the PM with his massive new MP's

[arista]

11:07AM
Barry Gardiner MP
is moaning and the BBCnewsHD reporter
in the studio.

But he understands
Labour can not Stop the New Brexit plans
that mean the 2020 December date
will not be extended in law.

[arista]

1206887859669667840

[Kizzy]

He's taking the piss... Let's see what happens over 100 days.

[Livia]

We will increase the National Living Wage to £10.50 by 2024 ending low pay – giving a full-time worker a £4,000 earnings boost. We will expand the National Living Wage to those over the age of 21 and we’ve confirmed the Low Pay Commission’s remit for the National Living Wage to reach two thirds of median earnings by 2024. This will give full-time workers on the National Living Wage a £4,000 income boost.

We will not to raise the rate of income tax, VAT or National Insurance throughout the lifetime of the next Parliament. This tax lock will benefit families across the country, helping them with the cost of living and ensuring they will get the full benefit of economic growth in their pay packets .

We will increase the National Insurance threshold to £9,500 next year saving 31 million people approximately £100. We will lift hundreds of thousands of people out of paying tax completely by raising the national insurance threshold from £8,632 this year to £9,500 next year. That will be a tax cut for 31 million of approximately £100 per worker

We will continue to lead the way and set high standard on workers’ rights, building on the biggest upgrade of rights for a generation. This People’s Government will create a single enforcement body to better protect and enhance rights, improve support for working parents and carers.

From Tory HQ.

The b*stards, right?

[Marsh.]

"You aint seen nothing"

No, and we won't do you blithering idiot.

[jet]

Shock horror, your first sentence is about Corbyn and you're still trying to paint me as revering him as some kind of saint when I clearly say that he's old news. You are determined to push a certain narrative and it's just sad at this point. Corbyn this, Corbyn that, this conversation is a ****ing bore.

I do not even know why you're basically ranting at me about him either and quite frankly, it's weird.

You are refusing to let millions take responsibility for their own actions because you want your obsession to be held solely responsible which is foolishness. How can you call me childish in a previous post and yet believe people aren't accountable for their own decisions?

My disdain is simple and justifiable, most people that voted Tory inevitably voted against themselves and people more vulnerable then they are and they ignored plenty of red flags that told them as much because they have a weird cultish love for the Tories that borders on worship and to them, the Tories can do no wrong. I don't really blame the rich and the upper classes for voting Tory, it benefits them to do so but anyone that is working class and votes Tory is essentially taking a blade to their own wrist and watching themselves bleed. I can't stand such foolishness so I will criticise such decisions, as is my right to do so.

If you don't like that, tough ****. If it even looks like your next post is another rant about Corbyn then I won't bother reading it. I'm not enabling your obsession.

Of course people are responsible for their own actions - I have never said they weren’t - and the vast majority of people got it right and voted correctly because they had the sense to see the alternative would be disastrous for the country. My posts were as much about your awful propensity to label anyone who doesn’t think like you as vastly inferior to what you perceive as your highly superior self.
I’d much rather show my disdain of one person over and over than rant about and show my disdain for millions I know nothing about over and over again, including members of this forum, which you do.

I admitted that, by the law of averages, a small minority of people could have voted in ignorance, but you don’t believe in the law of averages and insist on mass ignorance.

Your refusal to put any blame at all on Steptoe (see what I did there), :smug: for Labours failure gives the impression you see him as a saint. As him being blameless is just ridiculous, your not - so -secret adoration is showing….
You responded to a post of mine initially, and have responded to my replies every time, your choice, so I don’t know what you are complaining about.

[Zizu]

"You aint seen nothing"

No, and we won't do you blithering idiot.



He’s a lot of things but he certainly isn’t an idiot and to be honest it’s pure foolishness to peddle that nonsense


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Tom4784]

Of course people are responsible for their own actions - I have never said they weren’t - and the vast majority of people got it right and voted correctly because they had the sense to see the alternative would be disastrous for the country. My posts were as much about your awful propensity to label anyone who doesn’t think like you as vastly inferior to what you perceive as your highly superior self.
I’d much rather show my disdain of one person over and over than rant about and show my disdain for millions I know nothing about over and over again, including members of this forum, which you do.

I admitted that, by the law of averages, a small minority of people could have voted in ignorance, but you don’t believe in the law of averages and insist on mass ignorance.

Your refusal to put any blame at all on Steptoe (see what I did there), :smug: for Labours failure gives the impression you see him as a saint. As him being blameless is just ridiculous, your not - so -secret adoration is showing….
You responded to a post of mine initially, and have responded to my replies every time, your choice, so I don’t know what you are complaining about.

If you actually bothered to read my posts properly, you'd have seen that I don't blame any parties for how the vote turned out and that includes the Tories. People made their choice and it's my ****ing right whether you like it or not to comment on that decision. The Tories wouldn't have any power if they weren't enabled by the people. It is the people who are responsible for vindicating all the **** the Tories pulled by voting for them. The Tories wouldn't have gotten anywhere without public support so the public are at fault for letting it happen. You can blame he who shall not be named all you want but at the end of the day, the public decided and they decided poorly. Now stop projecting your own ****ing obsession onto me, it's tiresome and false. Argue against what I am actually saying, not what you want me to say. You've tried to make out that I'm a bad debater but you are literally ignoring what I'm saying in favour of the fiction in your head. More projection on your part.

Either respond to what I'm actually saying or don't bother, this is pointless if you're just gonna disregard what I'm saying and shove words I never said down my throat instead.

Weak attempts at character assassination and obsession is all you've had to offer in this debate, give me an argument with some actual meat on it for once.

[Zizu]

He’s a lot of things but he certainly isn’t an idiot and to be honest it’s pure foolishness to peddle that nonsense


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191217/48e09c9090fae61e3b1d6782b57a163a.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Tom4784]

Also, Jet. You keep making out that I'm insulting members of the forum with my views on Tories but WHERE is your condemnation for your friends' comments suggesting that people who don't support Tories are scroungers? Where's your condemnation for such sweeping statements when it refers to the other side?

You won't hear me crying out about it because I'd rather argue properly against such ****, not claim faux offense in order to silence a view I don't like.

[SherzyK]

"You aint seen nothing"

No, and we won't do you blithering idiot.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191217/48e09c9090fae61e3b1d6782b57a163a.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

You could have at least copied the link so people can read it.

[Zizu]

You could have at least copied the link so people can read it.



Google is your friend ..

https://www.google.com/search?q=boris+johnson+is+inteligent&rlz=1CDGOYI_enGB855GB855&oq=boris+johnson+is+inteligent&aqs=chrome..69i57.25366j1j7&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191217/bb1ce1fb2c8f9ed4d57a21a114f5970f.png

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191217/d83c8d3e13e4c88203aa8ca4a5084a9c.jpg
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[arista]

He's taking the piss... Let's see what happens over 100 days.


Yes we will
Meanwhile In Fighting
with New and Old Labour

[Marsh.]

He’s a lot of things but he certainly isn’t an idiot and to be honest it’s pure foolishness to peddle that nonsense


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

He is an idiot. Pure foolishness to think otherwise.

[Marsh.]

He has a degree in classics... :joker:

[Marsh.]

You could have at least copied the link so people can read it.

:suspect: Why did you quote me?

[SherzyK]

:suspect: Why did you quote me?

My iPhone did that :shame:

[arista]

He is an idiot. Pure foolishness to think otherwise.

He is PM
with massive new power


Embrace that.

[jet]

If you actually bothered to read my posts properly, you'd have seen that I don't blame any parties for how the vote turned out and that includes the Tories. People made their choice and it's my ****ing right whether you like it or not to comment on that decision. The Tories wouldn't have any power if they weren't enabled by the people. It is the people who are responsible for vindicating all the **** the Tories pulled by voting for them. The Tories wouldn't have gotten anywhere without public support so the public are at fault for letting it happen. You can blame he who shall not be named all you want but at the end of the day, the public decided and they decided poorly. Now stop projecting your own ****ing obsession onto me, it's tiresome and false. Argue against what I am actually saying, not what you want me to say. You've tried to make out that I'm a bad debater but you are literally ignoring what I'm saying in favour of the fiction in your head. More projection on your part.

Either respond to what I'm actually saying or don't bother, this is pointless if you're just gonna disregard what I'm saying and shove words I never said down my throat instead.

Weak attempts at character assassination and obsession is all you've had to offer in this debate, give me an argument with some actual meat on it for once.

Spoiler alert! I mention Corbyn a few times, so don't read if you can't stomach it! :hee:

I know exactly what you are saying and it is that those who voted Tory are idiots and stupid, its hard NOT to know what you are saying when you endlessly repeat it. You think they did so in the knowledge that it would be against their best interests. But you don’t consider the thought that they must have felt that voting for Corbyn and Labour would be worse for the country and their best interests and that is very, very telling indeed.
The general concensus, backed up by polls say that people cite the leadership as the main reason they didn’t vote for Labour. That is a devastating indictment of Corbyn yet you insist he is blameless. That is where you duck and dive and your argument falls down. It's at the crux of WHY people decided to vote Tory.

Johnson hasn’t had a chance yet, I could understand it if in a years time your dire predictions had all come true. You assume all Tory leaders and policies are going to be the same into infinity. Labour wasn’t always a carbon copy of itself - look at it under Tony Blair. So maybe people preferred to give Johnson a chance, seeing that the alternative was very obviously NOT what they wanted.

If the Labour party from now on keep choosing new leaders of the same far left, extremist, armchair revolutionary ilk, then they are going to be out of power for far longer than another 10 years. People don’t want it - this is the UK, not Russia...and they said so, loud and clear!
Accept it, reflect on where Corbyn and Labour went wrong and WHY people turned their back on them without resorting to the one -size - fits all 'idiots' and 'mass ignorance'. Stop blaming everyone else who used their right to vote how they saw fit without being looked down on by you.

[arista]

Parliament is Live Now

Packed - so many Conservatives to fit in.


Corbyn got Jeered
as he rushed into his seat.

[Twosugars]

Parliament is Live Now

Packed - so many Conservatives to fit in.


Corbyn got Jeered
as he rushed into his seat.

What the house shrunk ?

Enjoy the honeymoon, it soon be over. Bojo is unfit for office. As are some of his mps.

[arista]

What the house shrunk ?

Enjoy the honeymoon, it soon be over. Bojo is unfit for office. As are some of his mps.


There is No Honeymoon.

The Northern Conservative MP's
connected well up north.
ref:BBC2HD Politics Live

[Tom4784]

Spoiler alert! I mention Corbyn a few times, so don't read if you can't stomach it! :hee:

I know exactly what you are saying and it is that those who voted Tory are idiots and stupid, its hard NOT to know what you are saying when you endlessly repeat it. You think they did so in the knowledge that it would be against their best interests. But you don’t consider the thought that they must have felt that voting for Corbyn and Labour would be worse for the country and their best interests and that is very, very telling indeed.
The general concensus, backed up by polls say that people cite the leadership as the main reason they didn’t vote for Labour. That is a devastating indictment of Corbyn yet you insist he is blameless. That is where you duck and dive and your argument falls down.

Johnson hasn’t had a chance yet, I could understand it if in a years time your dire predictions had all come true. You assume all Tory leaders and policies are going to be the same into infinity. Labour wasn’t always a carbon copy of itself - look at it under Tony Blair. So maybe people preferred to give Johnson a chance, seeing that the alternative was very obviously NOT what they wanted.

If the Labour party from now on keep choosing new leaders of the same far left, extremist, armchair revolutionary ilk, then they are going to be out of power for far longer than another 10 years. People don’t want it - this is the UK, not Russia...and they said so, loud and clear!
Accept it, reflect on where Corbyn and Labour went wrong and WHY people turned their back on them without resorting to the one -size - fits all 'idiots' and 'mass ignorance'. Stop blaming everyone else who used their right to vote how they saw fit without being looked down on by you.

You keep making out that I'm saying **** about Corbyn when I haven't even ****ed mentioned him unless you have prompted me to. YOU are the one trying to shove words down my throat. Control your goddamn obsession for once.

Your argument is that the public aren't foolish because.... they disregarded policies and experience and voted the Tories, not because doing so is beneficial to their existence.... But because they disliked Corbyn that much... You're not really making a compelling argument, buddy. You're just adding fuel to my fire that the public made a dumb decision based on bad faith and motivations.

Who is ducking and diving? You're the one that keeps focusing on **** I've not said so it's just another case of YOU projecting your own flaws onto me. Stop living in your fantasy world and actually argue against what I'm saying for once, come deal with reality for once.

Your next paragraph is basically 'We don't know so let's hope and pray he'll do well because hopes and prayers are more important than experience and analysis! He has been a terrible prime minister so far, the tories have been woeful since they took power at the start of the decade and the whole 'let's wait and see!' attitude is a waste of time when we already know what's ahead of us. Pretty much everything that's happened since 2016 has been predicted by analysts and experts that the Tories and their supporters have been desperate to ignore. I speak with confidence because, unlike most of the public, I am willing to pay attention to bad news and forecasts and learn from them. After all, you did have Micheal Gove telling leavers to disregard the words of experts because they weren't saying what leavers wanted to hear. There's no point in hopes and prayers, it's a nothing answer and a weak one to boot. No matter who's been leading the party since 2010, the path the Tory government has taken has been consistent. Constant cutting of funds of public services and the NHS, the demonisation of the vulnerable and the implementation of a predatory benefits system that thrives on punishing the people in need of it and more.

Whether it's Cameron, May or Boris, it's been the same and it will continue to be the same and it's foolishness to think otherwise when the writing is on the walls and it's been there for years. I value knowledge over living in ignorance and hoping for the best.

You keep acting offended by my words about the public by making out that I'm branding them with the same brush while it seems like anyone who disagrees with you is some sort of Corbyn stan when, if you actually paid attention to what I'm saying. You'd know that I ultimately don't give a **** about Corbyn. I voted for Labour because they had the most realistic chance of saving the NHS and public services which is the main issue I vote on. From now on, I will most likely vote Green unless Labour can rebuild itself into a party that can challenge Tories which I doubt will ever happen since the Tory Cult is in full operation and will never be convinced to vote for themselves and not for the benefit of their overlords. As always, you have real issues with projecting your own flaws onto other people. You don't have an opinion that doesn't involve Corbyn and I'm honestly a bit worried for you for when your main scapegoat steps down. What will you do without Corbyn? You have a real dependency issue when it comes to him.

[arista]

The PM is speaking Live
in Parliament now

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EL_cpXwXUAEs3Xs?format=jpg&name=small
AM today
Conservative Cabinet Meeting

[arista]

The SNP Blackford
is now talking

[Crimson Dynamo]

It is fitting that almost all the MPs who reduced our politics to paralysis have lost their seats

The House of Commons returns today, and one of the most striking changes
will be who is no longer there.


John Bercow is tending to his new career as a television personality, replaced
as Speaker by the less self-aggrandising figure of Sir Lindsay Hoyle. From
Dominic Grieve and David Gauke to Sir Oliver Letwin and Philip Hammond, the
ex-Tory rebels are out, either losing their seats in doomed bids to win as
independents or having pre-emptively decided to leave politics for good.


Those Conservatives who defected to the Lib Dems to campaign for a second
referendum all failed in their attempts to re-enter Parliament. Remainer Labour
MPs for Brexit areas, meanwhile, were kicked out in their dozens.


These are the politicians responsible for turning the last parliament into a log-
jammed, paralysed mess. No constitutional norm or established procedure was
safe from their single-minded determination to thwart Brexit. They hoped to
keep Boris Johnson a prisoner in Downing Street, incapable of moving forward
with his agenda and yet unable to go to the country for a new mandate.


That aspect of their plan fell apart when the Liberal Democrats and the SNP
decided to accept the need for a general election, pressuring Labour to do
the same. In the parallel universe where the general election never happened,
we would be staring at a miserable Christmas of yet more stasis followed by
yet another failure to get Brexit done in January.


It is small wonder that most of the country is relieved. The 365 Conservative
MPs who will take their seats today all ran on a platform of voting for Mr
Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement, and the Prime Minister has been clear that
he wants to complete negotiations for the trade deal by the end of next
year. The Government has also indicated that it will repeal the Fixed-Term
Parliaments Act, the ill-conceived piece of legislation that enabled the
dysfunction of the past few years.


The people really to be congratulated, however, are the voters. With a few
exceptions, particularly on the Labour front-bench, last Thursday’s election
saw nearly all of those MPs who turned the last parliament into a chaotic
sixth-form debating society of self-indulgent grandstanding and undemocratic
manoeuvring removed from office. For all the talk of the country’s constitution
being broken, at least one part of it has worked exactly as it needed to.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2019/12/17/thank-voters-ridding-us-grandstanding-parliament/

[Zizu]

He is an idiot. Pure foolishness to think otherwise.



Clearly not .. he had great success and achieved an awful lot at Uni not least a degree in one of THE hardest subjects..



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191217/6a4f8931df868727cb1a05cca9844a78.jpg

[The Slim Reaper]

Can a good mod rename this thread to tory w@nkathon?

[arista]

The House Of Lords
on her first woman speaker
at the first walk to the House of Lords
you buggered her words up reading the wrong sheet.


Also
Johnson PM is looking to reform the House of Lords

[Zizu]

He has a degree in classics... :joker:


Are you really qualified to judge him on his degree ?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191217/e7f2e47679f4bb5a94ce60a80d602794.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Twosugars]

It is fitting that almost all the MPs who reduced our politics to paralysis have lost their seats

The House of Commons returns today, and one of the most striking changes
will be who is no longer there.


John Bercow is tending to his new career as a television personality, replaced
as Speaker by the less self-aggrandising figure of Sir Lindsay Hoyle. From
Dominic Grieve and David Gauke to Sir Oliver Letwin and Philip Hammond, the
ex-Tory rebels are out, either losing their seats in doomed bids to win as
independents or having pre-emptively decided to leave politics for good.


Those Conservatives who defected to the Lib Dems to campaign for a second
referendum all failed in their attempts to re-enter Parliament. Remainer Labour
MPs for Brexit areas, meanwhile, were kicked out in their dozens.


These are the politicians responsible for turning the last parliament into a log-
jammed, paralysed mess. No constitutional norm or established procedure was
safe from their single-minded determination to thwart Brexit. They hoped to
keep Boris Johnson a prisoner in Downing Street, incapable of moving forward
with his agenda and yet unable to go to the country for a new mandate.


That aspect of their plan fell apart when the Liberal Democrats and the SNP
decided to accept the need for a general election, pressuring Labour to do
the same. In the parallel universe where the general election never happened,
we would be staring at a miserable Christmas of yet more stasis followed by
yet another failure to get Brexit done in January.


It is small wonder that most of the country is relieved. The 365 Conservative
MPs who will take their seats today all ran on a platform of voting for Mr
Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement, and the Prime Minister has been clear that
he wants to complete negotiations for the trade deal by the end of next
year. The Government has also indicated that it will repeal the Fixed-Term
Parliaments Act, the ill-conceived piece of legislation that enabled the
dysfunction of the past few years.


The people really to be congratulated, however, are the voters. With a few
exceptions, particularly on the Labour front-bench, last Thursday’s election
saw nearly all of those MPs who turned the last parliament into a chaotic
sixth-form debating society of self-indulgent grandstanding and undemocratic
manoeuvring removed from office. For all the talk of the country’s constitution
being broken, at least one part of it has worked exactly as it needed to.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2019/12/17/thank-voters-ridding-us-grandstanding-parliament/

Luckily SNP are still there in force:D

[Marsh.]

Are you really qualified to judge him on his degree ?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191217/e7f2e47679f4bb5a94ce60a80d602794.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

From Balliol College. :joker:

[Marsh.]

Clearly not .. he had great success and achieved an awful lot at Uni

Aww, bless him. He got through uni, give him number 10.

[Twosugars]

Bojo is just a dishonest hack with a talent for bamboozling people.

Looking forward to his premiership. The prorogation on false premises was just a taster

[jet]

You keep making out that I'm saying **** about Corbyn when I haven't even ****ed mentioned him unless you have prompted me to. YOU are the one trying to shove words down my throat. Control your goddamn obsession for once.

Your argument is that the public aren't foolish because.... they disregarded policies and experience and voted the Tories, not because doing so is beneficial to their existence.... But because they disliked Corbyn that much... You're not really making a compelling argument, buddy. You're just adding fuel to my fire that the public made a dumb decision based on bad faith and motivations.

Who is ducking and diving? You're the one that keeps focusing on **** I've not said so it's just another case of YOU projecting your own flaws onto me. Stop living in your fantasy world and actually argue against what I'm saying for once, come deal with reality for once.

Your next paragraph is basically 'We don't know so let's hope and pray he'll do well because hopes and prayers are more important than experience and analysis! He has been a terrible prime minister so far, the tories have been woeful since they took power at the start of the decade and the whole 'let's wait and see!' attitude is a waste of time when we already know what's ahead of us. Pretty much everything that's happened since 2016 has been predicted by analysts and experts that the Tories and their supporters have been desperate to ignore. I speak with confidence because, unlike most of the public, I am willing to pay attention to bad news and forecasts and learn from them. After all, you did have Micheal Gove telling leavers to disregard the words of experts because they weren't saying what leavers wanted to hear. There's no point in hopes and prayers, it's a nothing answer and a weak one to boot. No matter who's been leading the party since 2010, the path the Tory government has taken has been consistent. Constant cutting of funds of public services and the NHS, the demonisation of the vulnerable and the implementation of a predatory benefits system that thrives on punishing the people in need of it and more.

Whether it's Cameron, May or Boris, it's been the same and it will continue to be the same and it's foolishness to think otherwise when the writing is on the walls and it's been there for years. I value knowledge over living in ignorance and hoping for the best.

You keep acting offended by my words about the public by making out that I'm branding them with the same brush while it seems like anyone who disagrees with you is some sort of Corbyn stan when, if you actually paid attention to what I'm saying. You'd know that I ultimately don't give a **** about Corbyn. I voted for Labour because they had the most realistic chance of saving the NHS and public services which is the main issue I vote on. From now on, I will most likely vote Green unless Labour can rebuild itself into a party that can challenge Tories which I doubt will ever happen since the Tory Cult is in full operation and will never be convinced to vote for themselves and not for the benefit of their overlords. As always, you have real issues with projecting your own flaws onto other people. You don't have an opinion that doesn't involve Corbyn and I'm honestly a bit worried for you for when your main scapegoat steps down. What will you do without Corbyn? You have a real dependency issue when it comes to him.

Nope, I don’t think everyone who disagrees with me is some sort of Corbyn ‘stan’ - (what a silly word) just you really,(and Kizzy!) :hehe: as you STILL won’t admit he even shares a fraction of the blame. It is weird that you can’t do that, even when polls and many in his own party say he shared a large part. I have never said he was 100% to blame, I said that the far left armchair revolutionary policies of the party itself played a part too. Why do you ignore that? People didn’t believe and didn’t want their outlandish policies so they voted Tory because they felt it would be in their better interests. YOU are putting words into my mouth and once again using avoidance tactics.

You can’t possibly know, nobody can, how things are going to turn out, no matter how much of a Mystic Meg you think you are. Analysts can only predict, they can’t KNOW. Analysts also predicted how disastrous for the country Labours loony policies would be but perhaps you paid no heed to them. Many obviously did. I don’t know why you think Labour in power would do fantastic things when they are also completely unproven. Unless you believe everything they say automatically.
Johnson has put the NHS at the top of his priorities but you totally ignore that because it seems you don’t want to believe it. You say he's been a terrible PM so far, so what does that say about people rejecting old Steptoe?

FYI I only post here sporadically (and never on social media) mostly because some people here think the Saint can do no wrong, has never done any wrong, and I like to refute that because it’s far from the truth. That's not an obsession, thats an enjoyment of filling people in on their missing information. Many have even thanked me with 'omg, I didn't know that' privately. :smug: Blame them for encouraging me....

Anyway, maybe it’s time to leave it now, because you have your views and I have mine and never the twain shall meet.
….and don’t come back with your usual ‘you are ducking out because you are losing’ as you did to another poster, yesterday I think, who remarked to you that there was no point talking to you ‘because it’s always your way or the highway’....

[Twosugars]

I disagree with you Jet too :)

Labour have good policies, for example renationalisation of railways

64% of the 1,500 adults polled in June 2018 said they would support renationalising the railways. 19% said they would oppose it, and 17% said they didn’t know. The results are similar to other polls done on the question.
https://fullfact.org/economy/do-public-want-railways-renationalised/

Tories cant be trusted with nhs

[arista]

UK unemployment falls to lowest level since 1975

Take Note
Twosugars

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50820280

[Twosugars]

UK unemployment falls to lowest level since 1975

Take Note
Twosugars

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50820280

Yeah and people cant make ends meet. Gig economy

[arista]

Yeah and people cant make ends meet. Gig economy


"Some" People are having problems
sure,
its a Worldwide Problem.

[Zizu]

Nope, I don’t think everyone who disagrees with me is some sort of Corbyn ‘stan’ - (what a silly word) just you really,(and Kizzy!) :hehe: as you STILL won’t admit he even shares a fraction of the blame. It is weird that you can’t do that, even when polls and many in his own party say he shared a large part. I have never said he was 100% to blame, I said that the far left armchair revolutionary policies of the party itself played a part too. Why do you ignore that? People didn’t believe and didn’t want their outlandish policies so they voted Tory because they felt it would be in their better interests. YOU are putting words into my mouth and once again using avoidance tactics.



You can’t possibly know, nobody can, how things are going to turn out, no matter how much of a Mystic Meg you think you are. Analysts can only predict, they can’t KNOW. Analysts also predicted how disastrous for the country Labours loony policies would be but perhaps you paid no heed to them. Many obviously did. I don’t know why you think Labour in power would do fantastic things when they are also completely unproven. Unless you believe everything they say automatically.

Johnson has put the NHS at the top of his priorities but you totally ignore that because it seems you don’t want to believe it. You say he's been a terrible PM so far, so what does that say about people rejecting old Steptoe?



FYI I only post here sporadically (and never on social media) mostly because some people here think the Saint can do no wrong, has never done any wrong, and I like to refute that because it’s far from the truth. That's not an obsession, thats an enjoyment of filling people in on their missing information. Many have even thanked me with 'omg, I didn't know that' privately. :smug: Blame them for encouraging me....



Anyway, maybe it’s time to leave it now, because you have your views and I have mine and never the twain shall meet.

….and don’t come back with your usual ‘you are ducking out because you are losing’ as you did to another poster, yesterday I think, who remarked to you that there was no point talking to you ‘because it’s always your way or the highway’....



Some great points you made there ..
I found it very irritating to see and hear Corbyn slagging Boris and the Tories off after the embarrassing defeat .. Corbyn was somehow able to see into the future ( when it was far too late) as he told us about all the terrible things that are going to happen now .. joker !!


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[Zizu]

Aww, bless him. He got through uni, give him number 10.



Love him or hate him the evidence is there to show he’s an intelligent guy ..

You’re just showing yourself in poor light by mocking his IQ all the time .

Its like suggesting Messi is a rubbish footballer .. just daft


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[jet]

Also, Jet. You keep making out that I'm insulting members of the forum with my views on Tories but WHERE is your condemnation for your friends' comments suggesting that people who don't support Tories are scroungers? Where's your condemnation for such sweeping statements when it refers to the other side?

You won't hear me crying out about it because I'd rather argue properly against such ****, not claim faux offense in order to silence a view I don't like.

Just seeing this post now...
As I said, I'm not here that much and I haven't seen such posts.
I can't see any of my friends saying that people who don't support Tory's are scroungers, I certainly wouldn't agree with that.
Unless they said that SOME who don't support Tory's are scroungers, which, given the law of averages :smug:, is certainly possible. Likewise, there could be some people who don't support Labour who are also scroungers. :shrug:

[Twosugars]

Love him or hate him the evidence is there to show he’s an intelligent guy ..

You’re just showing yourself in poor light by mocking his IQ all the time .

Its like suggesting Messi is a rubbish footballer .. just daft


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yeah bc what we need now is someone who read Ovid or Homer in original :joker:

[Zizu]

Yeah bc what we need now is someone who read Ovid or Homer in original :joker:



Its not the ‘degree’ as such in itself- it is simply the fact that he was able to pass one of THE most difficult subjects available which ironically seems to be lost on a few around here ..all the more impressive considering given he also gave a great deal of time and energy to the student union and student journalism

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191217/f4a4e1c1f9529035b1c214df1a985e6f.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Marsh.]

Love him or hate him the evidence is there to show he’s an intelligent guy ..

You’re just showing yourself in poor light by mocking his IQ all the time .

Its like suggesting Messi is a rubbish footballer .. just daft


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Mocking his IQ all the time? When exactly?

Are you inventing things like Boris?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Love him or hate him the evidence is there to show he’s an intelligent guy ..

You’re just showing yourself in poor light by mocking his IQ all the time .

Its like suggesting Messi is a rubbish footballer .. just daft


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

to have a go at a guy who has been mayor of London and PM in terms of drive and intelligence is madness - both positions are democratically elected

i mean come on

:facepalm:

[Marsh.]

Its not the ‘degree’ as such in itself- it is simply the fact that he was able to pass one of THE most difficult subjects available which ironically seems to be lost on a few around here .

What's "ironic" about it?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I would suggest that most if not all of the negativity is class based hatred

just my opinion of course

:)

[Marsh.]

to have a go at a guy who has been mayor of London and PM in terms of drive and intelligence is madness - both positions are democratically elected

i mean come on

:facepalm:

Trump was elected and he's as thick as two short planks.

Get all giddy over someone's expensive education all you like.

[Marsh.]

I would suggest that most if not all of the negativity is class based hatred

just my opinion of course

:)

I agree. Your negativity does tend to have a classism about it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Trump was elected and he's as thick as two short planks.

Get all giddy over someone's expensive education all you like.

Yes both put their necks on the line and worked hard

May i ask have you ever put yourself forward for public service to help others?

[Marsh.]

Yes both put their necks on the line

Yes, both get gold stars for turning up.


May i ask

No. Unless you can explain what relevance it has. The discussion isn't about me or you. It's about Boris.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes, both get gold stars for turning up.



No. Unless you can explain what relevance it has. The discussion isn't about me or you. It's about Boris.

If you continue to slander a man you have never met with illogical and nasty accusations its is most certainly about you and why you are doing this

Iam asking, rightly, if you can appreciate what he has achieved, feel empathy for his journey ?

[Marsh.]

If you continue to slander a man you have never met with illogical and nasty accusations its is most certainly about you and why you are doing this

Slander? :laugh2: Oh calm down.

Iam asking, rightly, if you can appreciate what he has achieved, feel empathy for his journey ?

Feel empathy for a man who has ZERO for the vulnerable in our society? Not really no.

[Twosugars]

If you continue to slander a man you have never met with illogical and nasty accusations its is most certainly about you and why you are doing this

Iam asking, rightly, if you can appreciate what he has achieved, feel empathy for his journey ?

You should move to North Korea if you dont like criticising politicians.

[Zizu]

He is an idiot. Pure foolishness to think otherwise.

"You aint seen nothing"

No, and we won't do you blithering idiot.





You must have memory issues ..


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[Crimson Dynamo]

You should move to North Korea if you dont like criticising politicians.

Why do they know the difference between criticism and name calling there?

[Oliver_W]

to have a go at a guy who has been mayor of London and PM in terms of drive and intelligence is madness - both positions are democratically elected

i mean come on

:facepalm:
We don't elect our PMs remember.

Yeah bc what we need now is someone who read Ovid or Homer in original :joker:

The ability to do so needs a certain level of intelligence and mental agility, and perhaps you've heard the term "transferable skills"?

[Crimson Dynamo]

:hehe:

[Marsh.]

You must have memory issues ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

The point you're trying to make is?

[Crimson Dynamo]

The point you're trying to make is?

cant you remember?


:hehe:

[jet]

Its not the ‘degree’ as such in itself- it is simply the fact that he was able to pass one of THE most difficult subjects available which ironically seems to be lost on a few around here ..all the more impressive considering given he also gave a great deal of time and energy to the student union and student journalism

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191217/f4a4e1c1f9529035b1c214df1a985e6f.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Impressive indeed! :thumbs: Intelligence and the ability to work very hard aren't qualities some people can relate to if they don't have those qualities themselves. Too much effort maybe?

[Marsh.]

Have no response so resort to personal insults. Not surprised.

I love how the word "idiot" has people clamouring for his qualifications. It takes more than a classics degree to make a leader.

[Toy Soldier]

Boris is a very intelligent man but that doesn't mean he isn't going to completely **** the country - he's set for life either way and probably sees it all as "a great bit of sport". I'm not even saying he WANTS to wreck the country... just that he'll be A) reckless and experimental and B) uncaring to those with the least, who will suffer first.

[Marsh.]

Exactly. Treats it like a sport like the idiot he is.

[Twosugars]

We don't elect our PMs remember.



The ability to do so needs a certain level of intelligence and mental agility, and perhaps you've heard the term "transferable skills"?

Not really. Languages are picked up easily by all children. He learned Latin and Greek at Eton.
And went there bc daddy could afford it. Nothing to do with intelligence Ollie

[Oliver_W]

Not really. Languages are picked up easily by all children. He learned Latin and Greek at Eton.
And went there bc daddy could afford it. Nothing to do with intelligence Ollie

And then he applied the skills he learned, and got a degree. In Oxford.

[Twosugars]

And then he applied the skills he learned, and got a degree. In Oxford.

And then became a hack. And got sacked twice for lying.

Spare me :sleep:

[Oliver_W]

And then became a hack. And got sacked twice for lying.

Spare me :sleep:

He's a person who's lost some jobs ... Who also happens to have a brilliant degree :)

Why are you trying to take that away from him, plenty of people i don't like are highly educated, who cares :shrug:

[Twosugars]

He's a person who's lost some jobs ... Who also happens to have a brilliant degree :)

Why are you trying to take that away from him, plenty of people i don't like are highly educated, who cares :shrug:

I love education. But also know its limitations. Education and intelligence are only loosely connected.

Why you trying to make out he is something he is not :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I love education. But also know its limitations. Education and intelligence are only loosely connected.

Why you trying to make out he is something he is not :shrug:

I love education

Is there anyone who doesn't?

[Oliver_W]

I love education. But also know its limitations. Education and intelligence are only loosely connected.

Why you trying to make out he is something he is not :shrug:

They're loosely connected when it comes to rubbish like Gender Studies, but not heady stuff like Classics at Oxford.

I'm not trying to make make out he's anything, but to act like his degreeis meaningless is just churlish.

[Twosugars]

I love education

Is there anyone who doesn't?

Idk. Ask every human on earth and find out :pat:

[Marsh.]

He's a person who's lost some jobs ... Who also happens to have a brilliant degree :)

Why are you trying to take that away from him, plenty of people i don't like are highly educated, who cares :shrug:

Why are you bleating on about his degree anyway?

[Twosugars]

They're loosely connected when it comes to rubbish like Gender Studies, but not heady stuff like Classics at Oxford.

I'm not trying to make make out he's anything, but to act like his degreeis meaningless is just churlish.

It's not meaningless, it's a degree :shrug:
Nothing more and nothing less.

I have one and know from experience it means not a lot as an indicator of "intelligence"

Idgi why you're in awe of a degree. Some sort of snobism?

[Oliver_W]

It's not meaningless, it's a degree :shrug:
Nothing more and nothing less.

I have one and know from experience it means not a lot as an indicator of "intelligence"

Idgi why you're in awe of a degree. Some sort of snobism?

I have a degree too, and what separated the wheat from the chaffe wasn't intelligence but how we fared in the placements. So i agree with you there.

[Twosugars]

I have a degree too, and what separated the wheat from the chaffe wasn't intelligence but how we fared in the placements. So i agree with you there.

Some of my former colleagues studying medicine are now actual doctors treating people. That thought chills my blood, I can tell you.

[Oliver_W]

Some of my former colleagues studying medicine are now actual doctors treating people. That thought chills my blood, I can tell you.

Ha! Nearly everyone from my course who i didn't think should be near a classroom gradually disappeared over the years, and none ended up in my chosen speciality (SEN) so I'm not too worried.I

That said, I'm sure one thing we can agree on is how we appear when facing patients or pupils isn't exactly how we are in daily life, so they might be better than we think:)

[Toy Soldier]

Some of my former colleagues studying medicine are now actual doctors treating people. That thought chills my blood, I can tell you.

Indeed; there are people I knew at University who are now doctors and it's just terrifying.

There's also a guy from my high school who now drives tanks and I... I just... I mean... ****.

[jet]

They're loosely connected when it comes to rubbish like Gender Studies, but not heady stuff like Classics at Oxford.

I'm not trying to make make out he's anything, but to act like his degreeis meaningless is just churlish.

All this mocking is because he has a great degree, and old Steptoe hasn't got one, even though he was sent to posh grammar schools. He was a university drop out, the lazy sod. You have to laugh. :laugh:

[Tom4784]

Nope, I don’t think everyone who disagrees with me is some sort of Corbyn ‘stan’ - (what a silly word) just you really,(and Kizzy!) :hehe: as you STILL won’t admit he even shares a fraction of the blame. It is weird that you can’t do that, even when polls and many in his own party say he shared a large part. I have never said he was 100% to blame, I said that the far left armchair revolutionary policies of the party itself played a part too. Why do you ignore that? People didn’t believe and didn’t want their outlandish policies so they voted Tory because they felt it would be in their better interests. YOU are putting words into my mouth and once again using avoidance tactics.

You can’t possibly know, nobody can, how things are going to turn out, no matter how much of a Mystic Meg you think you are. Analysts can only predict, they can’t KNOW. Analysts also predicted how disastrous for the country Labours loony policies would be but perhaps you paid no heed to them. Many obviously did. I don’t know why you think Labour in power would do fantastic things when they are also completely unproven. Unless you believe everything they say automatically.
Johnson has put the NHS at the top of his priorities but you totally ignore that because it seems you don’t want to believe it. You say he's been a terrible PM so far, so what does that say about people rejecting old Steptoe?

FYI I only post here sporadically (and never on social media) mostly because some people here think the Saint can do no wrong, has never done any wrong, and I like to refute that because it’s far from the truth. That's not an obsession, thats an enjoyment of filling people in on their missing information. Many have even thanked me with 'omg, I didn't know that' privately. :smug: Blame them for encouraging me....

Anyway, maybe it’s time to leave it now, because you have your views and I have mine and never the twain shall meet.
….and don’t come back with your usual ‘you are ducking out because you are losing’ as you did to another poster, yesterday I think, who remarked to you that there was no point talking to you ‘because it’s always your way or the highway’....

So, I write a whole paragraph explaining my political views and you disregard it to carry on suggesting that I'm as obsessed with Corbyn as you. You are a fanatic of hate and there is no talking to you since you wake up and you think of Corbyn and you go to sleep thinking of Corbyn and you don't understand that no one's life revolves around Corbyn as much as yours' does. If you can't even be bothered to read what I'm saying then there's no point in talking to you, you might as well go argue with a wall and pretend it said what you want me to say because you aren't responding to anything I am actually saying.

I'm going to address the rest of your post though, mainly because it's laughable.

I have already addressed that I don't actually blame any parties for the result. Parties are nothing without votes and it's the people who vote. Tories are scum but they wouldn't have power if the people didn't give it to them with their votes. I'm not gonna blame parties for the mistakes of voters, that's dumb. I've explained this multiple times but it's still not sinking in because you don't read what I write, you read what you want to hear so you can keep pushing your fanaticism on other people. The fact that you keep projecting your issues onto me is just pitiful at this point. It's not worked so far so why keep trying?

You can't know how things will turn out because you likely only hear what you want to hear. I listen to the analysts whose careers and reputations depend on them being accurate, I listen to the experts. You let your hatred of some soon to be irrelevant MP dictate your life. I'm not making out I'm psychic, I'm just informed wile you obviously subscribe to the Micheal Gove thought process when it comes to Analysts. Most analysts worth their salt were in agreement about brexit and they were mostly in agreement about the vague promises of the Tory Manifesto.

Unlike Tory voters, I don't believe anything I'm told automatically, I'm just aware enough to notice that the Tory regimes since 2010 have been utter dog**** and we are overdue a change. When something is broken, I replace the broken parts, while you'll argue for waiting and hoping that the parts will fix themselves. Why would I believe the Tories when we've had three different Tory governments since 2010 and they've all embodied the same problems? You can hope and pray all you want for something to change, or you can try to make a change.

The Tories always say that the NHS is their top priority and every government cuts back on it's funding more every time. You may like to swallow the lies you're told but I certainly don't.

You are in a debate, it's quite pathetic to cry about me defending my views just because you can't overcome what I'm saying. I have never tried to shut someone down with the whole 'wah! you're not accepting my opinion and that means you're trying to silence me!!!' bull****. If I see a viewpoint I disagree with, I'll argue against it and I expect people to do the same when they disagree with me. I actually have conviction in my views, can't say the same about anyone that would enter a debate and then cry when the other person isn't giving up. Such entitlement. You don't like my viewpoints and you haven't been able to argue against me, that's why you've had to throw out insults first (I only respond to them by saying you are projecting) and that's why you're flouncing off now and trying to claim a moral victory because you can't get one on your own merit.

[Oliver_W]

All this mocking is because he has a great degree, and old Steptoe hasn't got one, even though he was sent to posh grammar schools. He was a university drop out, the lazy sod. You have to laugh. :laugh:

Eh, I'm not gonna agree here. I don't care whether or not someone has a degree or not.

[Marsh.]

All this mocking is because he has a great degree, and old Steptoe hasn't got one, even though he was sent to posh grammar schools. He was a university drop out, the lazy sod. You have to laugh. :laugh:

Except degrees were brought up in response to my post and I didn't vote labour, so where does Corbyn come into it?

Seems, like Boris, you struggle to join the dots.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Except degrees were brought up in response to my post and I didn't vote labour, so where does Corbyn come into it?

Seems, like Boris, you struggle to join the dots.

You voted Lib Dem?

[jet]

[QUOTE]So, I write a whole paragraph explaining my political views and you disregard it to carry on suggesting that I'm as obsessed with Corbyn as you. You are a fanatic of hate and there is no talking to you since you wake up and you think of Corbyn and you go to sleep thinking of Corbyn and you don't understand that no one's life revolves around Corbyn as much as yours' does.

Hey, you don't want me to think I've a reputation to live up to do you? A bit counter - productive of you, eh? I'll feel obliged to come on here as soon as I wake up, and all day every day to disparage the awful Corbyn, and I just don't have the time. :bawling:

You don't think I'm listening to what you are saying, and I was.
I don't think you are listening to what I'm saying either.
Stalemate.
I kind of enjoyed the dialogue with you for what its worth, but I know you would go on for ever, and I can't invest that much time, so....
I know that losing is impossible for you to stomach and its important to you to be always right, so I'll flounce off and give you the victors crown to get rid. You can wear it all evening. Enjoy!:dance:

[jet]

Eh, I'm not gonna agree here. I don't care whether or not someone has a degree or not.

Neither do I so fair enough...neither would I disparage someones degree because I don't like them.

[Tom4784]

[QUOTE=Jet;10736971]

Hey, you don't want me to think I've a reputation to live up to do you? A bit counter - productive of you, eh? I'll feel obliged to come on here as soon as I wake up, and all day every day to disparage the awful Corbyn, and I just don't have the time. :bawling:

You don't think I'm listening to what you are saying, and I was.
I don't think you are listening to what I'm saying either.
Stalemate.
I kind of enjoyed the dialogue with you for what its worth, but I know you would go on for ever, and I can't invest that much time, so....
I know that losing is impossible for you to stomach and its important to you to be always right, so I'll flounce off and give you the victors crown to get rid. You can wear it all evening. Enjoy!:dance:

This translates to:

'I lack the capacity to win so I'm gonna pretend to walk away while demeaning your victory because I'm a sore loser that can't admit I've lost so I'll pretend to take the moral highground when I'm just being petty af.'

Don't enter a debate with someone if you're gonna lose your **** when they stand their ground.

Also, you're still deflecting. It's obvious I'm reading what you are saying because I respond to it directly. You just disregard what I say completely.

[Marsh.]

Neither do I so fair enough...neither would I disparage someones degree because I don't like them.

Nobody's disparaged a degree. They simply balked at a degree being used as a counter argument to someone's idiocy.

[jet]

[QUOTE=jet;10737005]

This translates to:

'I lack the capacity to win so I'm gonna pretend to walk away while demeaning your victory because I'm a sore loser that can't admit I've lost so I'll pretend to take the moral highground when I'm just being petty af.'

Don't enter a debate with someone if you're gonna lose your **** when they stand their ground.

Also, you're still deflecting. It's obvious I'm reading what you are saying because I respond to it directly. You just disregard what I say completely.

You are a piece of work and no mistake. :joker:

[Oliver_W]

Nobody's disparaged a degree. They simply balked at a degree being used as a counter argument to someone's idiocy.

What proof is there that he's an idiot?

I contend that he's a skilful tactition who created the "Buffoon Boris" image which got lapped up and probably helped his win, while he has a sharp and intelligent mind behind it all.

[Twosugars]

What proof is there that he's an idiot?

I contend that he's a skilful tactition who created the "Buffoon Boris" image which got lapped up and probably helped his win, while he has a sharp and intelligent mind behind it all.

Going by what people in the Foreign Office said about him he is extremely lazy and can't be arsed to master his brief.

[Marsh.]

I contend that he's a skilful tactition

Proof?

[Kizzy]

Nope, I don’t think everyone who disagrees with me is some sort of Corbyn ‘stan’ - (what a silly word) just you really,(and Kizzy!) :hehe: as you STILL won’t admit he even shares a fraction of the blame. It is weird that you can’t do that, even when polls and many in his own party say he shared a large part. I have never said he was 100% to blame, I said that the far left armchair revolutionary policies of the party itself played a part too. Why do you ignore that? People didn’t believe and didn’t want their outlandish policies so they voted Tory because they felt it would be in their better interests. YOU are putting words into my mouth and once again using avoidance tactics.

You can’t possibly know, nobody can, how things are going to turn out, no matter how much of a Mystic Meg you think you are. Analysts can only predict, they can’t KNOW. Analysts also predicted how disastrous for the country Labours loony policies would be but perhaps you paid no heed to them. Many obviously did. I don’t know why you think Labour in power would do fantastic things when they are also completely unproven. Unless you believe everything they say automatically.
Johnson has put the NHS at the top of his priorities but you totally ignore that because it seems you don’t want to believe it. You say he's been a terrible PM so far, so what does that say about people rejecting old Steptoe?

FYI I only post here sporadically (and never on social media) mostly because some people here think the Saint can do no wrong, has never done any wrong, and I like to refute that because it’s far from the truth. That's not an obsession, thats an enjoyment of filling people in on their missing information. Many have even thanked me with 'omg, I didn't know that' privately. :smug: Blame them for encouraging me....

Anyway, maybe it’s time to leave it now, because you have your views and I have mine and never the twain shall meet.
….and don’t come back with your usual ‘you are ducking out because you are losing’ as you did to another poster, yesterday I think, who remarked to you that there was no point talking to you ‘because it’s always your way or the highway’....
Yep I'm a Corbyn Stan. ..still.
What did the polls say about our newly elected PM? They couldn't trust him an inch.. and I don't blame them!
They voted Tory to brexit, nothing else... there was no other reason to.

You've thrown your weight behind Johnson in the vain hope he'll deliver for the NHS...You've chosen to believe that 'automatically' despite the fact he is a proven liar?

The only good thing to come out of the election is getting the DUP out of government, not that you ever had any pearls of wisdom about their past involvement with terrorist organisations strangely.

[Oliver_W]

Proof?

He got a 2:1 in one of the hardest degrees out there. He has a carefully cultivated image, and is good with words to the point where he could lead his party to a win with a mere slogan.

[Kizzy]

He got a 2:1 in one of the hardest degrees out there. He has a carefully cultivated image, and is good with words to the point where he could lead his party to a win with a mere slogan.

He had an education that cost more than some earn in 20yrs! I should think it would get him a degree there would be something seriously amiss if he didn't. :/

[Kizzy]

What a slogan... brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit tampons brexit

[Oliver_W]

He had an education that cost more than some earn in 20yrs! I should think it would get him a degree there would be something seriously amiss if he didn't. :/

What a slogan... brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit brexit tampons brexit

And yet I'm still to hear any justification for calling him stupid!

[jet]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-given-20-minute-21116560

Jeremy Corbyn given 20-minute 'hairdryer' dressing down by MP who lost seat

Jeremy Corbyn was given the “hairdryer” treatment in a 20-minute, public dressing-down from an MP who lost her seat.
Mary Creagh, the former MP for Wakefield, had been clearing out her Commons office when she saw the Labour leader posing for selfies with young people.
She told the Times she approached Mr Corbyn and gave him a stern talking-to.
“I told him he shouldn’t be having his photo taken with young people because he had betrayed their future,” she said. “I asked him to apologise for what he’d done.”
She says she unloaded on Mr Corbyn, branding Labour’s manifesto a “joke” and accusing him of alienating Labour voters.
Ms Creagh said she also took issue with Mr Corbyn’s decision to call the election without consulting the Shadow Cabinet and challenged him to go too Wakefield to apologise.
“He needs to know what he has done,” she added. “He needs to own his failure. He must apologise for what he has done. I told him ‘why are you still sat in your office when all my staff have just lost their jobs?’”

He's a disgrace.

[Oliver_W]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-given-20-minute-21116560

Jeremy Corbyn given 20-minute 'hairdryer' dressing down by MP who lost seat


He's a disgrace.

I wouldn't even say he's a disgrace. He was very "tunnel visioned" and couldn't or wouldn't see what he was focusing on. He didn't realise that almost everything he was doing was cutting off his nose to spite the faces of his MPs, and he did nothing to dampen the muck raked by the tabloids.

[Kizzy]

And yet I'm still to hear any justification for calling him stupid!

There are other forms of intelligence, being able to parrot text and memorise Latin phrases don't mean he is rounded. Academics can be emotionally stunted, that's being generous.

[Kizzy]

I wouldn't even say he's a disgrace. He was very "tunnel visioned" and couldn't or wouldn't see what he was focusing on. He didn't realise that almost everything he was doing was cutting off his nose to spite the faces of his MPs, and he did nothing to dampen the muck raked by the tabloids.

He was clear he didn't entertain personal attacks, which is what a lot of his MPS appear to be doing now... The manifesto was well recieved, pepole liked his policies. They did not engage with the divided Labour brexit stance, he can't absorb all the blame for that.
Many MPs were out and out leavers and some determined to remain. The neutral stance meant he could best aid everyone.
But he was never going to be able to please everyone...

[Kizzy]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-given-20-minute-21116560

Jeremy Corbyn given 20-minute 'hairdryer' dressing down by MP who lost seat


He's a disgrace.

THIS is a disgrace...



https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/17/equalities-professor-to-head-tory-inquiry-into-discrimination-in-party

[Oliver_W]

There are other forms of intelligence, being able to parrot text and memorise Latin phrases don't mean he is rounded. Academics can be emotionally stunted, that's being generous.

"Some people with good degrees can be stupid" isn't the same as "Boris Johnson is stupid", for which I've still not heard any proof.

I don't even have a strong opinion either way, but there's more to say he's not-stupid than is-stupid.

[jet]

He was clear he didn't entertain personal attacks, which is what a lot of his MPS appear to be doing now... The manifesto was well recieved, pepole liked his policies. They did not engage with the divided Labour brexit stance, he can't absorb all the blame for that.
Many MPs were out and out leavers and some determined to remain. The neutral stance meant he could best aid everyone.
But he was never going to be able to please everyone...

Wrong.The polls say his failure was due to:

His leadership 43%
His Brexit stance 17%

[Oliver_W]

He was clear he didn't entertain personal attacks, which is what a lot of his MPS appear to be doing now... The manifesto was well recieved, pepole liked his policies. They did not engage with the divided Labour brexit stance, he can't absorb all the blame for that.
Many MPs were out and out leavers and some determined to remain. The neutral stance meant he could best aid everyone.
But he was never going to be able to please everyone...
You can't please all people all of the time so I think he should have had a definitive Brexit stance, whichever way that was. He's right to not let things get personal, and I think people on all sides of the fence should follow suit.

[Marsh.]

He got a 2:1 in one of the hardest degrees out there. He has a carefully cultivated image, and is good with words to the point where he could lead his party to a win with a mere slogan.

Yes, "Get it Done", worth every penny of that Oxford education. :joker:

[Marsh.]

Next, I'll be told Trump isn't a childish moron because he made billions in business. :joker:

[Oliver_W]

Yes, "Get it Done", worth every penny of that Oxford education. :joker:

It seems to have worked when it came to winning votes for his party. A simple slogan was all he needed. "For the many, not the few" and "strong and stable" are more examples of simple slogans - even if the second was an outright lie :joker:

And I'm still not hearing how you can justify the fact that he's stupid?

[Twosugars]

It seems to have worked when it came to winning votes for his party. A simple slogan was all he needed. "For the many, not the few" and "strong and stable" are more examples of simple slogans - even if the second was an outright lie :joker:

And I'm still not hearing how you can justify the fact that he's stupid?

Oliver what makes you think he invented those slogans?
That's the job of the campaign advisers

[Marsh.]

It seems to have worked when it came to winning votes for his party. A simple slogan was all he needed. "For the many, not the few" and "strong and stable" are more examples of simple slogans - even if the second was an outright lie :joker:

And I'm still not hearing how you can justify the fact that he's stupid?

I still haven't heard you justify him not.

"He had an expensive degree at Oxford" has absolutely no bearing on the buffoon currently sitting in number 10.

The only substantial thing you've credited him with is coming up with a three word slogan "Get Brexit Done". This doesn't convince me he isn't stupid.

[Oliver_W]

I still haven't heard you justify him not.

"He had an expensive degree at Oxford" has absolutely no bearing on the buffoon currently sitting in number 10.

The only substantial thing you've credited him with is coming up with a three word slogan "Get Brexit Done". This doesn't convince me he isn't stupid.
I've suggested reasons he might not be stupid, and this was after someone (you or 2S) said he was, without any reasoning.

[Marsh.]

I don't really need reasoning, the man is an idiot, his so called policies are idiotic. Just take a look at every contradictory comment he's made about Brexit and the NHS.

[Twosugars]

I've suggested reasons he might not be stupid, and this was after someone (you or 2S) said he was, without any reasoning.

Not quite.
I called into question the usefulness of his knowledge of Latin and greek and then you started going on how that proves he was intelligent. Which I questioned. That (in itself) does not prove he is particularly intelligent.
Considering the number of blunders he's made in his career like getting caught lying repeatedly and losing his job twice etc etc etc his case doesn't look that great.

[Oliver_W]

I don't really need reasoning, the man is an idiot, his so called policies are idiotic. Just take a look at every contradictory comment he's made about Brexit and the NHS.
I've not heard everything he's said. All I've heard him say is that the NHS isn't on the table, and that it's getting a funding boost :shrug:

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/116E9/production/_110210417_metro18decreal.jpg

[arista]

A Cartoon for
Twosugars

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1207010445804081152/3SwZ9Z1z?format=jpg&name=small

[Tom4784]

[QUOTE=Dezzy;10737012]

You are a piece of work and no mistake. :joker:

More insults, to be expected.

[bots]

I don't think Boris is lacking intelligence, and just because someone doesn't agree with his policies does not make him any less intelligent.

However, intelligence and stupidity are not mutually exclusive, and stupidity in itself is a subjective term.

I disagree with many of his policies, I object to the fact that he is dishonest as a person, I don't like him and I don't trust him. He may still be a good prime minister though, only time will tell

[Kizzy]

How can a dishonest person be a good pm? What an oxymoron...He is not the standard I expect from the person who represesents us as a country. He is and ever will be a national embarrassment.

[Zizu]

I don't think Boris is lacking intelligence, and just because someone doesn't agree with his policies does not make him any less intelligent.



However, intelligence and stupidity are not mutually exclusive, and stupidity in itself is a subjective term.



I disagree with many of his policies, I object to the fact that he is dishonest as a person, I don't like him and I don't trust him. He may still be a good prime minister though, only time will tell



You make some good points as it’s widely accepted that ‘clever’ people quite often lack simple common sense ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EMA9V0zXsAEexyH?format=jpg&name=small

[arista]

1207255301470203905



Bang On Right

[Twosugars]

1207255301470203905



Bang On Right

To be ruled by Dominic Cummings, an unelected bureaucrat

[Toy Soldier]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EMA9V0zXsAEexyH?format=jpg&name=small

Gross. Is it juxtaposition to make Boris look better?

[arista]

Gross. Is it juxtaposition to make Boris look better?



He is Most Polite
to the SNP
in Our Westminster Parliament

[Twosugars]

He is Most Polite
to the SNP
in Our Westminster Parliament

His manners are neither here nor there.

[Oliver_W]

His manners are neither here nor there.

What's your issue with him? As far as I can tell he's just a Bertie Wooster figure who floated to the top.

[Toy Soldier]

What's your issue with him? As far as I can tell he's just a Bertie Wooster figure who floated to the top.

:omgno: Are you calling Jacob Ree Smog a floater?

[Oliver_W]

:omgno: Are you calling Jacob Ree Smog a floater?

Sometimes it's cream that floats to the top, and sometimes it's scum. I've not heard any reason to assume he's either. I'm not going to use his politeness as a deciding factor, because among certain classes it is unthinkable to be ill mannered in public.

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/ad_img/1207297976907059204/FewFBJ1r?format=jpg&name=small