Light at the end of the tunnel - Covid [vaccine news]

[Kizzy]

Nothing in that article is particularly reassuring ... at all .

Half dose followed by a full dose 21 days later ... both to be kept at below 70C ...


Whilst I appreciate our surgeons are brilliant I don’t quite as much faith in the over worked , often inexperienced nurses..

In one hospital stay I was nearly given a DOUBLE dose ( two injections ) of Warfarin - luckily I queried the second one !!

Whilst on another occasion an inexperienced nurse gave me EIGHT Piriton tablets with a glass of water ... luckily I knew to only take TWO ... but she didn’t !!

She’d mistakenly given me a whole days supply !!

This was ten years ago when the health service was NOT as stretched or underfunded.


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How can you run down an entire profession due to two incidents years apart?...

How silly. It's like saying you don't ride public transport because a driver was at fault in an accident once...

[Zizu]

How can you run down an entire profession due to two incidents years apart?...



How silly. It's like saying you don't ride public transport because a driver was at fault in an accident once...



Well one was potentially life threatening and the other the 8 piriton tablets would have probably put me to sleep for quite some time .. not ideal when I was in for breathing problems !!

So pardon me for being slightly cautious...



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[Cherie]

FDA approve Pfizer vaccine for emergency use

[Kizzy]

Well one was potentially life threatening and the other the 8 piriton tablets would have probably put me to sleep for quite some time .. not ideal when I was in for breathing problems !!

So pardon me for being slightly cautious...



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Again they were 2 incidents years apart.. a little perspective?

Does that colour your view of the millions of medical treatments carried out by nurses or just inoculations?

[Zizu]

Again they were 2 incidents years apart.. a little perspective?



Does that colour your view of the millions of medical treatments carried out by nurses or just inoculations?



Both incidents were in the space of two months actually... and yes it has made me cautious of the ‘little things’ like administering medicine..


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[arista]

FDA approve Pfizer vaccine for emergency use

Yes but USA
has had the Worse Deaths in one day.
So they are far too slow getting their vaccine going.


China was first.

[bots]

they are now doing trials combining the russian vaccine with the Astra zeneca one to see if they can improve it. Thats not going to increase peoples confidence in getting vaccinated, i wouldnt trust anything coming out of Russia

[Zizu]

they are now doing trials combining the russian vaccine with the Astra zeneca one to see if they can improve it. Thats not going to increase peoples confidence in getting vaccinated, i wouldnt trust anything coming out of Russia



Great ... combining two completely separate, unproven vaccines TOGETHER !!

What could go wrong !?


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[Cherie]

Great ... combining two completely separate, unproven vaccines TOGETHER !!

What could go wrong !?


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They are just starting the trial now, they will not be rolling it out untested :laugh:

They will be looking for recruits, fancy it Zizu?

[bots]

They are just starting the trial now, they will not be rolling it out untested :laugh:

They will be looking for recruits, fancy it Zizu?

they are trialing it in Russia .... good luck to them :laugh:


Its actually not as daft as it sounds as they both use the same technology, ie a genetically modified cold virus

[Kizzy]

Both incidents were in the space of two months actually... and yes it has made me cautious of the ‘little things’ like administering medicine..


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OK 2 incidents 10 yes ago. I'm not saying it wasn't important or downplaying the severity of what could have happened, however when you tar a whole profession due to a bad experience it is a tad extreme.

[Zizu]

OK 2 incidents 10 yes ago. I'm not saying it wasn't important or downplaying the severity of what could have happened, however when you tar a whole profession due to a bad experience it is a tad extreme.



I certainly didn’t intend to ‘tar’ anyone .... just explained what happened to me on two occasions when the NHS was in a far better state and not overwhelmed ...


This kind of thing ..

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201212/d0f6096a5e71da8ee601887b772061bd.jpg
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[Nicky91]

https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/status/1337433345668636674

information regarding vaccine procedures for the EU countries

[Kizzy]

I certainly didn’t intend to ‘tar’ anyone .... just explained what happened to me on two occasions when the NHS was in a far better state and not overwhelmed ...


This kind of thing ..

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201212/d0f6096a5e71da8ee601887b772061bd.jpg
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Two not even nearly comparable events . .. :/

[bots]

the mass vaccination of people combined with the very particular way the vaccine has to be handled makes this all very challenging for anyone. People are being vaccinated now, if it has some teething problems, so what ... peoples lives are being saved by the thousands

[Zizu]

Two not even nearly comparable events . .. :/



Of course they’re connected..

The last two bullet points show how there’s confusion .. that’s when mistakes are made


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[Kizzy]

Of course they’re connected..

The last two bulket points show how there’s confusion .. that’s when mistakes are made


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Nope one was a clinical error and the other administrative. .. not the same.

[hijaxers]

My friends dad has had message to say his appointment is imminent ~ he is 89 and has copd.

[Zizu]

Nope one was a clinical error and the other administrative. .. not the same.



The point I was making was the ‘potential’ for errors will be high in the current situation..


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[Zizu]

My friends dad has had message to say his appointment is imminent ~ he is 89 and has copd.



Hope everything goes well ...


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[Kizzy]

The point I was making was the ‘potential’ for errors will be high in the current situation..


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Nope all it shows me is nurses can make mistakes they are human ... to really eff things up royally you need the government.

[user104658]

The point I was making was the ‘potential’ for errors will be high in the current situation..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProI don't necessarily think you're wrong, not due to staff competence but due to the sheer scale of vaccination efforts.

However, I don't think there's huge cause for alarm - any errors are likely to result in ineffective vaccination rather than actual physical harm. The only real errors I can see occurring are clinical in the vaccines not being stored properly (which will just make them not work, it won't make them harmful) and administrative in people missing the second dose or getting it after too long a gap which again would just lessen effectiveness.

If the vaccines themselves are not harmful, then I don't think there's huge risk of harm being caused by staff error.

[Zizu]

Nope all it shows me is nurses can make mistakes they are human ... to really eff things up royally you need the government.



Again my point is people make more mistakes when they are overwhelmed/ overworked / understaffed ..


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[Kizzy]

Inexperienced you said...
A degree not enough for you to administer a vaccine?

[Zizu]

Inexperienced you said...
A degree not enough for you to administer a vaccine?



Not if they’re not used to doing it ...

I’ve had nurses who struggled to take blood before now ..

They’re talking about ‘training’ people to give the injections due to the sheer numbers involved


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[Marsh.]

Great ... combining two completely separate, unproven vaccines TOGETHER !!

What could go wrong !?


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They're "testing" it. How do you think vaccines are made?

[Kizzy]

Not if they’re not used to doing it ...

I’ve had nurses who struggled to take blood before now ..

They’re talking about ‘training’ people to give the injections due to the sheer numbers involved


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Why wouldn't they be used to doing it if it's their profession... Do you ask plumbers if they are 'used' to fixing leaks?

Taking blood is entirely different and depends on the patient as to how difficult or easy it is to find a viable vein.

You weren't discussing training random people, you specifically referred to nurses and alluded to some general incompetence.

[Zizu]

They're "testing" it. How do you think vaccines are made?



They’ve not had time to properly test them individually ( long term effects ) so pardon my apprehension when I learn they are already mixing two together


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[Zizu]

Why wouldn't they be used to doing it if it's their profession... Do you ask plumbers if they are 'used' to fixing leaks?



Taking blood is entirely different and depends on the patient as to how difficult or easy it is to find a viable vein.



You weren't discussing training random people, you specifically referred to nurses and alluded to some general incompetence.



Just try reading between the lines .. or maybe I just didn’t explain my apprehension well enough ...

I’ve explained my stance since then so either move on or just forget what I said ..


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[Marsh.]

They’ve not had time to properly test them individually ( long term effects ) so pardon my apprehension when I learn they are already mixing two together


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To test them.

They're not randomly mixing unknown substances together and injecting the population.

[Kizzy]

Just try reading between the lines .. or maybe I just didn’t explain my apprehension well enough ...

I’ve explained my stance since then so either move on or just forget what I said ..


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No I don't want to 'read between the lines' you've discredited a whole profession due to 2 incidents. It's not right or fair to do that. I'll forget it only due to the fact it was entirely nonsensical.

[Zizu]

No I don't want to 'read between the lines' you've discredited a whole profession due to 2 incidents. It's not right or fair to do that. I'll forget it only due to the fact it was entirely nonsensical.


Yes two incidents that could have killed me though !!


Jesus wept .



Just let it go ....


Edit

I’ve put you on ignore ... Life is stressful enough .

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[user104658]

They’re talking about ‘training’ people to give the injections due to the sheer numbers involved


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They're talking about training people specifically to give the vaccine because, despite what some seem to believe, the rest of the health service hasn't (and can't) grind to a halt for Covid. They can't just snatch a tonne of nurses away from their usual jobs to give Covid vaccines because they still have a job to do like at any other time...

[Zizu]

They're talking about training people specifically to give the vaccine because, despite what some seem to believe, the rest of the health service hasn't (and can't) grind to a halt for Covid. They can't just snatch a tonne of nurses away from their usual jobs to give Covid vaccines because they still have a job to do like at any other time...



I understand that but it does mean that thousands of inexperienced people will prob be giving the injections and that could lead to problems.


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[AnnieK]

I understand that but it does mean that thousands of inexperienced people will prob be giving the injections and that could lead to problems.


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It could lead to problems but trying to stretch current already overworked nursing staff to do their own work plus an immunisation project on this scale could lead to further problems.

I am sure any problems would be minimal though zizu. I understand your concerns and anxieties especially after the couple of errors you have experienced in the past and you won't be forced to have it if you are too fearful but I am sure it will be safe :love:

[bots]

the process of giving an injection is very simple, it doesn't need much training. I was taught to give injections years ago, and it is literally a 5 minute exercise. I then proceeded to give a relative injections every day without issue

[AnnieK]

the process of giving an injection is very simple, it doesn't need much training. I was taught to give injections years ago, and it is literally a 5 minute exercise. I then proceeded to give a relative injections every day without issue

I injected myself during some treatment I was having and also had to inject my mum was she was sick. I agree, its fairly straightforward.

[bots]

I injected myself during some treatment I was having and also had to inject my mum was she was sick. I agree, its fairly straightforward.

all those who apply to do ithe vaccinations are all background checked too

[user104658]

Depends, its a bit more complicated than that really. The process of giving an injection (at least into the muscle, so you don't have to find a vein) isn't that difficult - although you do have to make sure it ISN'T in a vein as A) it'll be ineffective and B) you'll cause bleeding and heavy bruising.

Dosage won't be an issue either as they'll be packaged as individual doses, most likely.

However what might be an issue - especially with Pfizer - is that some of these vaccines are li'l snowflakes and need to be handled properly or they won't work as effectively (i.e. Some won't work at all). They won't harm you, but they also won't immunise you. However that's fairly easily solved by having a few experienced staff in charge of handling and distribution, and the less experienced staff just doing the stabbin'.

[user104658]

Also when you're talking of experience giving an injection... They'll be doing so many that they'll have like a year's worth of experience after the first couple of days :joker:.

[AnnieK]

Depends, its a bit more complicated than that really. The process of giving an injection (at least into the muscle, so you don't have to find a vein) isn't that difficult - although you do have to make sure it ISN'T in a vein as A) it'll be ineffective and B) you'll cause bleeding and heavy bruising.

Dosage won't be an issue either as they'll be packaged as individual doses, most likely.

However what might be an issue - especially with Pfizer - is that some of these vaccines are li'l snowflakes and need to be handled properly or they won't work as effectively (i.e. Some won't work at all). They won't harm you, but they also won't immunise you. However that's fairly easily solved by having a few experienced staff in charge of handling and distribution, and the less experienced staff just doing the stabbin'.

The first time I had to inject myself, they were subcutaneous injections in my stomach. I hit a vein every time I think. By the end of the time I looked like I'd been hit with a very big bat, it was hard to find an area that wasn't bruised. The second time, I managed perfectly and had no bruising at all. I found the injections into muscle were far less likely to bruise. :laugh:

[Mystic Mock]

They’ve not had time to properly test them individually ( long term effects ) so pardon my apprehension when I learn they are already mixing two together


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It's good to be cautious, but some of the world's best are involved in making these Vaccines against Covid so I think it's best to try and stay optimistic that there won't be long term effects.

[bots]

Covid vaccinations will start being given to patients from GP surgeries in England as part of the next stage of the rollout of the programme.

GP practices in more than 100 locations will receive their first deliveries of the vaccine later, the NHS said.

Some will start vaccinating on Monday afternoon, with the majority getting under way on Tuesday.

[arista]

https://hvivo.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/COVID-Clear-Logo-thumbnail.jpg

A new Vaccine is being tested in the UK
it is a Nasal spray.
And does not need cold storage

Was on Part of SkyNewsHD Business Report 10:50AM today

[arista]

[Coronavirus vaccine: 137,000 people in UK get
COVID jab in first week]

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-vaccine-137-000-people-in-uk-get-covid-jab-in-first-week-12163995

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EpUeLH1XUAIvJNt?format=jpg&name=medium

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/12/16/22/36935718-9061493-image-a-97_1608158760223.jpg
[Vaccinated: Sir Ian McKellen CBE, 81,
has safely received the Covid-19 vaccine
after the NHS launched its vaccine rollout
earlier this month]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9061493/I-feel-euphoric-Sir-Ian-McKellen-81-safely-receives-COVID-19-vaccine.html

[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/VtoYa6Ok0L8O0ImBwzhuGQ/https/media.fyre.co/j72anxhMQ8WJuaXXAjWh_thesun.jpg

[Cherie]

Moderna vax has been approved in the US

[Kizzy]

I'm hoping my mum didn't miss out on her first dose because her practice notified patients for the 200 doses they had ( yrs thats all) by text!!

She doesn't have a mobile.

[bots]

i hope the other vaccines come on line soon, that will really take the pressure off supply

[Cherie]

I'm hoping my mum didn't miss out on her first dose because her practice notified patients for the 200 doses they had ( yrs thats all) by text!!

She doesn't have a mobile.

Oh no, could she give the practice your mobile number?

[Cherie]

i hope the other vaccines come on line soon, that will really take the pressure off supply

Oxford due any day I think

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqM3SOyU0AAh53U?format=jpg&name=small

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqM3SOAUcAAM-cp?format=jpg&name=small

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqM3SNlVEAAyyRB?format=jpg&name=small

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqM3SNlU8AAUtkG?format=jpg&name=small

[Kizzy]

Oh no, could she give the practice your mobile number?

The practice had mine and my sisters mobile as contacts but on her notes it just had her landlines. .we were not happy! :/

[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/gNH7lhHfQbEuFY4_PT4Asg/https/media.fyre.co/xot0mf1SRYih9ehuoT5s_daily-telegraph-front-2812_1609105689.JPG

[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/re_IyBOPK3KPNMEsWL9QNQ/https/media.fyre.co/zjN6vyyISp6wnls7K5XT_mirror-front-2812_1609106614.JPG

[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/BmbDHCk3FAippojHEgyBgg/https/media.fyre.co/hviHMKl5QRO7xfXliFOt_daily-mail-front-2812_1609107534.JPG

[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/ufn0xKVS9_m5z7-kosjzEA/https/media.fyre.co/3xkDMEn0QnCedahyzPAX_exp.JPG

[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/8rOI0tPGQ8rzS30oONIBKA/https/media.fyre.co/0dBIGrqQToS6Qw1zSeps_sun.JPG

[Zizu]

TalkSport just reported that a German hospital has had to dispose of tens of THOUSANDS of vaccines due to them not being kept at a low enough temperature ..

I was slighted when I mentioned my concerns weeks ago that I had doubts that the vaccines would all go smoothly - as mistakes happen ..


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[user104658]

TalkSport just reported that a German hospital has had to dispose of tens of THOUSANDS of vaccines due to them not being kept at a low enough temperature ..

I was slighted when I mentioned my concerns weeks ago that I had doubts that the vaccines would all go smoothly - as mistakes happen ..


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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

To be fair Zizu, I think people took issue with your suggestion that qualified nurses wouldn't be competent enough to administer the vaccines... adequate storage and transport is another issue - and has always been a concern.

[Zizu]

To be fair Zizu, I think people took issue with your suggestion that qualified nurses wouldn't be competent enough to administer the vaccines... adequate storage and transport is another issue - and has always been a concern.



Maybe I didn’t explain it well enough .. my point was always that people make mistakes... I did mention that they were understaffed / overworked ten years ago and things have gotten a lot worse over the last ten years


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[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/SRbX2Py_rJnBjcZvlpkHTw/https/media.fyre.co/E8d7hidzSS14mHQCeBFQ_Sun%20Tuesday.JPG

[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/Fgvi-OHGGMtHySops1M1Ow/https/media.fyre.co/H5Vni1nIS3Cv0D8t40Cc_Telegraph%20Tues.JPG

[LaLaLand]

BREAKING: The Oxford vaccine has been approved for use here in the UK!!

https://bbc.in/37Y7o9m?fbclid=IwAR1G5O8BHzeOCBrRMz9tzZ1XdigLo8FUv i2Yi01Yb_xXJi211Y9pagqqzWw

Easily stored, easily mass produced. This is extremely encouraging heading into 2021.

[AnnieK]

BREAKING: The Oxford vaccine has been approved for use here in the UK!!

https://bbc.in/37Y7o9m?fbclid=IwAR1G5O8BHzeOCBrRMz9tzZ1XdigLo8FUv i2Yi01Yb_xXJi211Y9pagqqzWw

Easily stored, easily mass produced. This is extremely encouraging heading into 2021.

Great news

[Denver]

The UK has ordered 100 m enough to vaccinate 50m people and it is so much easier to role out as it xan be stored in a normal fridge

[Denver]

With both Vaccines almost the whole of the UK will be vaccinated last year

[bots]

there wont be uptake of the oxford vaccine until the higher immunity figure is confirmed. Someone saying it in the 90's doesn't make it so until the data has been reviewed

[AnnieK]

there wont be uptake of the oxford vaccine until the higher immunity figure is confirmed. Someone saying it in the 90's doesn't make it so until the data has been reviewed

I actually think that people are so fed up they would take a placebo if it gave them vaccinated status. I think we should be using the Pfizer on the elderly and vulnerable and then the Oxford on the younger, less vulnerable age groups for now. Even at a lower efficacy it has to be a step in the right direction :shrug:

[Vanessa]

Things will be better by April. I'm sure if it

[Zizu]

With both Vaccines almost the whole of the UK will be vaccinated LAST year



That’s a tad optimistic :)




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[Vanessa]

This gives us hope.
We could have some kind of normal life very soon!

[Zizu]

This gives us hope.

We could have some kind of normal life very soon!



I’ll settle for not having the threat of death hanging over me ..


The editor of the Lancet has just tried to calm things down a little .. he mentioned that whilst Matt Hancock has said the ‘cavalry’ has arrived in fact it’s just the ‘horses’ as the real challenge will be to get the 16 million at risk over 60’s vaccinated with their first jab by Easter .. roughly one million per week . ( 90% of uk deaths were over 60’s)

He says it’s a hell of a task , something never been done before on such a scale and It will mean surgeries , pharmacies and even schools administering the jabs ..

[arista]

Oxford- AstraZenecca UK Vaccine approval update

Downing St,

Live on Both News Channels. now

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/1A4B/production/_115613760_more_vaccines_compared_v3-nc.png


BBC
How Some vaccines Compare

[arista]

There is only
530,000 of the Oxford Astra Vaccine
ready to go.

Starts to go out on Monday

At £3 a shot it is the cheapest of them all.


Ch4HDnews.

[Zizu]

There is only
530,000 of the Oxford Astra Vaccine
ready to go.

Starts to go out on Monday

At £3 a shot it is the cheapest of them all.


Ch4HDnews.



Yet we were told they can can produce 2 million doses per week ?!?!

( even that would take us around 25 weeks to make a substantial difference)

I was foolishly thinking that there’d at least be a stockpile of the vaccine ready and waiting) .


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[bots]

they will only manufacture a small stockpile of the vaccine until it is approved. The oxford vaccine is much easier to manufacture so it will be ramped up in the new year. They are doubling the number of vaccinations possible by giving everyone the first dose rather than 2 ... that makes a huge difference to hospitalisations and deaths

[Cherie]

I’ll settle for not having the threat of death hanging over me ..


The editor of the Lancet has just tried to calm things down a little .. he mentioned that whilst Matt Hancock has said the ‘cavalry’ has arrived in fact it’s just the ‘horses’ as the real challenge will be to get the 16 million at risk over 60’s vaccinated with their first jab by Easter .. roughly one million per week . ( 90% of uk deaths were over 60’s)

He says it’s a hell of a task , something never been done before on such a scale and It will mean surgeries , pharmacies and even schools administering the jabs ..

So are you taking the vaccine Zizu?

[Cherie]

Yet we were told they can can produce 2 million doses per week ?!?!

( even that would take us around 25 weeks to make a substantial difference)

I was foolishly thinking that there’d at least be a stockpile of the vaccine ready and waiting) .


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Wouldn’t it be nice if they put a positive spin on that number for a change or is it too much to ask! No they want the public squawking that the sky is falling 8n at every opportunity :laugh:

[arista]

"Yet we were told they can produce 2 million doses per week ?!?!"


Yes Typical Conservative Spin.

[Zizu]

So are you taking the vaccine Zizu?



Well apparently I can’t take the existing vaccine even if I’m offered it ( allergic reactions ) so I just hope I get offered the Oxford one before I contract the damn thing ..

If I rejected the existing one would I automatically go to the end of the queue ?


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[Cherie]

Well apparently I can’t take the existing vaccine even if I’m offered it ( allergic reactions ) so I just hope I get offered the Oxford one before I contract the damn thing ..

If I rejected the existing one would I automatically go to the end of the queue ?


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In the press conference today they revised the advice for people with allergies, you can take both as long as you are not allergic to the specific ingredients

Allergies – anyone with a previous history of allergic reactions to the ingredients of the vaccine should not receive it, but those with any other allergies such as a food allergy can now have the vaccine.’

https://www.anaphylaxis.org.uk/covid-19-advice/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-and-allergies/

[Zizu]

In the press conference today they revised the advice for people with allergies, you can take both as long as you are not allergic to the specific ingredients



Allergies – anyone with a previous history of allergic reactions to the ingredients of the vaccine should not receive it, but those with any other allergies such as a food allergy can now have the vaccine.’



https://www.anaphylaxis.org.uk/covid-19-advice/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-and-allergies/



Thank you !


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[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/17624/production/_116308759_sun-nc.png

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/8BC4/production/_116308753_ipaper-nc.png

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/100F4/production/_116308756_express-nc.png

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/B2D4/production/_116308754_dt-nc.png

[arista]

The 2nd Vaccine (after your 1st Vaccine)
is Now going to be up to 12 weeks later.


This not being done by the Government
By the Vaccine people.

Ref: Ch4HDnews.

[bots]

This is not new Arista, when the Oxford vaccine was approved yesterday, they advised that the vaccine worked better if the time between first and second doses was longer than 3 weeks but less than 12. As the vaccine has stopped hospitalisation 10 days after the first jab, it allows us to protect more people quicker

[Zizu]

This is not new Arista, when the Oxford vaccine was approved yesterday, they advised that the vaccine worked better if the time between first and second doses was longer than 3 weeks but less than 12. As the vaccine has stopped hospitalisation 10 days after the first jab, it allows us to protect more people quicker



Phew ... that’s a relief ... although 500,000 people are supposedly wondering when they will actually be getting their second jab .. plus apparently all the ‘modelling’ was done on the basis of a three week gap between doses NOT a 12 week one


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[DouglasS]

Phew ... that’s a relief ... although 500,000 people are supposedly wondering when they will actually be getting their second jab .. plus apparently all the ‘modelling’ was done on the basis of a three week gap between doses NOT a 12 week one


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I think those 500,000 are the Pztzier vaccine which is entirely different, I think the technique for that may be the same of 4 weeks? Not entirely sure

[arista]

This is not new Arista, when the Oxford vaccine was approved yesterday, they advised that the vaccine worked better if the time between first and second doses was longer than 3 weeks but less than 12. As the vaccine has stopped hospitalisation 10 days after the first jab, it allows us to protect more people quicker


Yes but it is a Topic on many
News and Live debates, today

[user104658]

This is not new Arista, when the Oxford vaccine was approved yesterday, they advised that the vaccine worked better if the time between first and second doses was longer than 3 weeks but less than 12. As the vaccine has stopped hospitalisation 10 days after the first jab, it allows us to protect more people quicker

Spin doctoring; a 3 month wait between first and second dose is a disaster and we have no idea if it will create effective long-term immunity. They're taking the verified test data and saying "Umm nah we're going to try something else"... and many GP surgeries are actually refusing to follow the "new advice".

It's likely to end up with people needing a 3rd dose or even needing to restart the entire process, in an environment of limited supply.

Utter mess.

[Zizu]

I think those 500,000 are the Pztzier vaccine which is entirely different, I think the technique for that may be the same of 4 weeks? Not entirely sure



Sky are saying it’s the Pztzier vaccine that they are talking about ... and it’s one million not 500,000 that will have their second jab delayed by 9 weeks

Pztzier are apparently washing their hands of things ... saying all their models and data were based on the 21 day gap and they didn’t test any longer than that


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[user104658]

The advice and process for literally any adult vaccine you might get is that if you miss the 2nd dose window then you have to wait a while and then restart with the first dose again.

This decision goes against the advice of the people who made and tested the vaccine, and there are thousands of doctors speaking out against it, even GP's saying that they will not follow this advice with their patients.

Its an absolute joke. A dangerous shambles. Anyone who agrees to this is volunteering themselves to guinneapig an untested method and will at the end of the day have absolutely no idea if they're protected or not.

My advice is, if you're not in one of the MOST vulnerable groups, WAIT until they abandon this madness and until you're relatively sure that you'll get the proper dosage with the proper spacing as tested.

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqmjHCyUYAEuJZw?format=jpg&name=small

[Kizzy]

What reason have they given for the 3 month gap?

[Zizu]

What reason have they given for the 3 month gap?



The new idea is to vaccine as many people as possible with one dose as soon as possible to slow the infection rate down and worry about the second dose later


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[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/1581B/production/_116319088_ifrontpage1jan.jpg

[user104658]

The new idea is to vaccine as many people as possible with one dose as soon as possible to slow the infection rate down and worry about the second dose later


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProJust ludicrous, knee-jerk, anti-scientific nonsense. The focus should be on rolling out - PROPERLY - as fast as possible.

This is them sticking their thumb in the dam and hoping for the best.

Plus you'll have a bunch of people heading out after their first shot thinking they're "probably protected" and half of them catching Covid.

I'm honestly low-key furious. There's bad decisions and then there's this catastrophe.

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/12DEB/production/_116319277_dailymail.png

D.Mail

[bots]

it was the vaccination board together with the Chief medical officers of each country that made the decision on the vaccination strategy so I trust them to have studied the data and made the right decision

[Ammi]

GPs criticise ‘unfair’ decision to delay second dose of Covid vaccines...


https://uk.yahoo.com/news/gps-criticise-unfair-decision-delay-122711416.html

[Ammi]

it was the vaccination board together with the Chief medical officers of each country that made the decision on the vaccination strategy so I trust them to have studied the data and made the right decision

...this is too important to place to ‘trust’, though, I feel...because of the potential lives involved...the delay absolutely should be questioned and assured that the vaccine will still have the same effectiveness...didn’t those same Chief Medical Officers, back in the day last Spring...say that mask wearing for healthy public would be a totally pointless thing...and yet...

[Zizu]

...this is too important to place to ‘trust’, though, I feel...because of the potential lives involved...the delay absolutely should be questioned and assured that the vaccine will still have the same effectiveness...didn’t those same Chief Medical Officers, back in the day last Spring...say that mask wearing for healthy public would be a totally pointless thing...and yet...



Plus they were the ones that took nearly 12 WEEKS to acknowledge that loss/ change in smell or taste were a key / obvious sign of Covid when everyone plus their uncle were reporting it as a symptom ... now it’s listed above the damn cough in the adverts


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[Zizu]

Apparently the new Oxford vaccine will next week hit an immediate ‘red tape’ bottleneck in the form of ‘diversity training’ as all the thousands of volunteers ( ex nurses and doctors) will have to go through that training and have to complete and sign 21 documents , be certified in ‘preventing radicalisation’ and certified in ‘fire safety ‘ and certified in ‘conflict resolution’ ... after all this they are given a one hour online training session ....


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[bots]

...this is too important to place to ‘trust’, though, I feel...because of the potential lives involved...the delay absolutely should be questioned and assured that the vaccine will still have the same effectiveness...didn’t those same Chief Medical Officers, back in the day last Spring...say that mask wearing for healthy public would be a totally pointless thing...and yet...

we don't have access to the vaccine data, most doctors don't either. The vaccine board and the CMO's do.

[Ammi]

we don't have access to the vaccine data, most doctors don't either. The vaccine board and the CMO's do.

...yeah, for sure they do Bots....and for that reason I feel that any huge changes to the vaccine doses and procedures etc, should be fully explained and reassured when life preservation is involved...because in the same way, I’m sure that 2/3 weeks wasn’t something that was just randomly chosen and we totally placed trust in that, did we not...?...so explaining why any effectiveness won’t be lost with the much extended time, is keeping with that trust ...which has to be a two way thing always...and although GP’s are just that ‘general practitioners’ with no specific medical specialisation...they do have enough medical knowledge to also question and ask for clarification, which it seems that many are...

[Mystic Mock]

The new idea is to vaccine as many people as possible with one dose as soon as possible to slow the infection rate down and worry about the second dose later


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That doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

[arista]

That doesn't sound like a good idea to me.



Covid: 12-week vaccine gap defended by UK medical chiefs



[The UK's chief medical officers have
defended the Covid vaccination plan,
after criticism from a doctors' union.
The UK will give both parts of the Oxford and
Pfizer vaccines 12 weeks apart,
having initially planned to leave
21 days between the Pfizer jabs.

The British Medical Association said
cancelling patients booked in for
their second doses was "grossly unfair".

But the chief medical officers said getting
more people vaccinated with
the first jab "is much more preferable".

The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was the first jab
approved in the UK, and 944,539 people
have had their first jab.

The first person to get the jab on 8 December,
Margaret Keenan, has already had her second jab.]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55503739

[user104658]

it was the vaccination board together with the Chief medical officers of each country that made the decision on the vaccination strategy so I trust them to have studied the data and made the right decision

When the counter-voice is the people who made and tested the various vaccines and they are saying it's the wrong way to use it, you might want to consider where to place your trust.

[arista]

Yes TS
its all because the stock level of both vaccines is low.


So their New Long 12 weeks is down to do with Production fails.

[Zizu]

Hope we do not have anyone like this

A Wisconsin hospital worker was fired after they admitted to deliberately damaging hundreds of doses of a Covid vaccine.

According to the Aurora Medical Center in Grafton, Wisconsin, a worker at the hospital admitted to deliberately sabotaging some 500 doses on Wednesday


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[arista]

[Chief medical officer
Chris Whitty warns coronavirus vaccine shortages will last months ]


https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-chief-medical-officer-chris-whitty-warns-coronavirus-vaccine-shortages-will-last-months-12176673

[The Slim Reaper]

OK this is truly appalling; they conned folks into taking the vaccine in a way that wasn't in any way approved, and all for optics. Absolutely shameless and dangerous as we risk an evolutionary mutation, with built up resistance to the vaccine.

Absolute madness.

[arista]

OK this is truly appalling; they conned folks into taking the vaccine in a way that wasn't in any way approved, and all for optics. Absolutely shameless and dangerous as we risk an evolutionary mutation, with built up resistance to the vaccine.

Absolute madness.



Some are saying that.
Others say the 2nd jab is a booster


It all simply because they are not able to increase production
in both vaccines.

[The Slim Reaper]

Some are saying that.
Others say the 2nd jab is a booster


It all simply because they are not able to increase production
in both vaccines.

Well considering the first jab hasn't been proven to provide any resistance beyond 21 days, then the "some" saying it's ok, really need to back that up.

Science isn't a both sides debate.

If they didn't have the vaccines, they shouldn't have tried to tie it to brexit independence (even bots believed brexit was a benefit to the vaccine), and claimed victory.

The government is actually using us as guinea-pigs.

[arista]

Well considering the first jab hasn't been proven to provide any resistance beyond 21 days, then the "some" saying it's ok, really need to back that up.

Science isn't a both sides debate.

If they didn't have the vaccines, they shouldn't have tried to tie it to brexit independence (even bots believed brexit was a benefit to the vaccine), and claimed victory.

The government is actually using us as guinea-pigs.


This was not a Government Decision


The Production of both
the Vaccines have not reached a larger number
thats the problem.

[The Slim Reaper]

This was not a Government Decision


The Production of both
the Vaccines have not reached a larger number

Then don't wheel them out in a victory parade. They didn't need to do it. we're all waiting patiently as it is, but the UK couldn't wait until we had enough, we used it as propaganda instead, and now more people are likely to die because of incompetence, optics, and flag-shagging.

[arista]

Then don't wheel them out in a victory parade. They didn't need to do it. we're all waiting patiently as it is, but the UK couldn't wait until we had enough, we used it as propaganda instead, and now more people are likely to die because of incompetence, optics, and flag-shagging.



Yes its Front page today
The PM is using the Vaccine as the big future.


The Front Page tomorrow
should be Vaccine Shortage

[The Slim Reaper]

Yes its Front page today
The PM is using the Vaccine as the big future.


The Front Page tomorrow
should be Vaccine Shortage

Only one of them can be true, so why support the obvious lie?

[MTVN]

Doesn't sound like that big a scandal to me, just adjusting to what Whitty makes pretty clear is a global issue

[arista]

Only one of them can be true, so why support the obvious lie?



I'm just saying what the PM has done in the Papers
I do not support it.

[arista]

[India is set to approve Oxford Astra zeneca vaccine today
and has already stockpiled 50MILLLION doses – fifty times
amount UK has ready]


This is why we are low in stock.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9104411/India-set-approve-Astrazeneca-vaccine-today.html

[The Slim Reaper]

Not a big scandal to roll out a vaccine in a way that it wasn't intended or tested?

[MTVN]

Not a big scandal to roll out a vaccine in a way that it wasn't intended or tested?

This idea of having longer between doses to enable more people to get the first dose has been talked about a lot in the last few weeks, it's not just suddenly been come up with

[Zizu]

[India is set to approve Oxford Astra zeneca vaccine today
and has already stockpiled 50MILLLION doses – fifty times
amount UK has ready]


This is why we are low in stock.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9104411/India-set-approve-Astrazeneca-vaccine-today.html



How have India got 50 milion doses of a vaccine made in England ( presumably Oxford ?) when we are desperate for them ?!?


This makes no sense .... although I do recall suggesting that things may not go too smoothly .


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[Ammi]

GPs hit out at 'grossly unfair' plan to delay follow-up COVID-19 jabs...


https://www.gponline.com/gps-hit-grossly-unfair-plan-delay-follow-up-covid-19-jabs/article/1703513

[arista]

How have India got 50 milion doses of a vaccine made in England ( presumably Oxford ?) when we are desperate for them ?!?


This makes no sense .... although I do recall suggesting that things may not go too smoothly .


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They paid ahead of us.

[Ammi]

1344411876097142797

[Ammi]

....do we really, really still think that this government may be doing an ok job...

[arista]

1344411876097142797


No, The Cock is busy
as an MP and Minister

[The Slim Reaper]

This idea of having longer between doses to enable more people to get the first dose has been talked about a lot in the last few weeks, it's not just suddenly been come up with

There's a reason why the medical profession objects to not completing a course of basic antibiotics. We have no idea how this virus could evolve with mutate, neither do the government, so trialling this on all of us is pretty dangerous even if nothing goes wrong.

The vaccine was designed to work in a specific fashion, so straying away from that is, or should be a scandal.

[Zizu]

They paid ahead of us.



This is bordering on insanity ..

Surely an English company should have our country as a priority !?

It’s practically the equivalent of our munitions factories sending weapons and ammo over to the Germans in WW11


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[bots]

....do we really, really still think that this government may be doing an ok job...

this wasn't a decision made by the government. It was made by the vaccine group and the cmo's of EACH country .... the way the government get blamed for absolutely anything is getting beyond a joke

[bots]

How have India got 50 milion doses of a vaccine made in England ( presumably Oxford ?) when we are desperate for them ?!?


This makes no sense .... although I do recall suggesting that things may not go too smoothly .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

India have got 50 million doses, because they have a factory in India manufacturing it. One of the benefits of the AZ vaccine is that it has manufacturing plants across the world

[The Slim Reaper]

this wasn't a decision made by the government. It was made by the vaccine group and the cmo's of EACH country .... the way the government get blamed for absolutely anything is getting beyond a joke

Ahh yes, why blame the people in charge of this sh1tshow when it's their actions that have lead us here to this fcuked up tier bollox that no one understands and doesn't work?

I tell you what is getting beyond a joke, people defending this absolute shower through everything they do to us.

[The Slim Reaper]

This is bordering on insanity ..

Surely an English company should have our country as a priority !?

It’s practically the equivalent of our munitions factories sending weapons and ammo over to the Germans in WW11


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It was developed by immigrants. :blush:

[Zizu]

It was developed by immigrants. :blush:



Ahh .. I simply presumed that being the Oxford vaccine and it being widely acclaimed by the government as our saviour that it was OURS ...

I give up ..


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[Cherie]

India have got 50 million doses, because they have a factory in India manufacturing it. One of the benefits of the AZ vaccine is that it has manufacturing plants across the world

I saw this guy interviewed about 6 weeks ago, he took a punt in the Oxford vaccine back in June and started ramping up


Good job he wasn’t reading the media here who were saying a vaccine would never be made as recently as October

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eqmqo5CWMAAVBrc?format=jpg&name=medium

[arista]

Amazing Some Doctors are going to do the 2 Jabs
at the original time.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqrcDk9UUAAeA2-?format=jpg&name=small

[Zizu]

Amazing Some Doctors are going to do the 2 Jabs
at the original time.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqrcDk9UUAAeA2-?format=jpg&name=small


Interesting and understandable

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[Mystic Mock]

This was not a Government Decision


The Production of both
the Vaccines have not reached a larger number
thats the problem.

What I don't get is while production for both Vaccines is low in the UK, why don't we just focus on giving the second Jab to the people that have already taken the first rather than trying to do so many people at once?

It's not a race.

[user104658]

Amazing Some Doctors are going to do the 2 Jabs
at the original time.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqrcDk9UUAAeA2-?format=jpg&name=small

GP surgeries are privately run, they can dispense as they see fit.

[arista]

What I don't get is while production for both Vaccines is low in the UK, why don't we just focus on giving the second Jab to the people that have already taken the first rather than trying to do so many people at once?

It's not a race.



They appear to think
get many more done with just the first jab,
matters more.

But there is a problem with Pfizer USA Vaccine
they say it should not be 12 weeks gap.



And it is a Race
as the less protected is danger to the old folks.

[user104658]

What I don't get is while production for both Vaccines is low in the UK, why don't we just focus on giving the second Jab to the people that have already taken the first rather than trying to do so many people at once?

It's not a race.

That's absolutely what they should be doing - focussing on getting vulnerable groups fully vaccinated. Instead they're ****ing around trying to get an unpredictable number of people and unpredictable level of immunity in the hopes that it catalyses some form of herd immunity and reduces NHS strain.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but I think it may well go down in history as an absolutely massive blunder.

[Mystic Mock]

That's absolutely what they should be doing - focussing on getting vulnerable groups fully vaccinated. Instead they're ****ing around trying to get an unpredictable number of people and unpredictable level of immunity in the hopes that it catalyses some form of herd immunity and reduces NHS strain.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but I think it may well go down in history as an absolutely massive blunder.

Well it just makes the most common sense I feel.

I get what Arista is trying to say (and I hope he is right about this method working) but like you I sense and worry that the history books will look on this really badly.

[arista]

Many papers say the Vaccine makers say there is no Shortage?

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/D19E/production/_116326635_thetimes-nc.png

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/58EA/production/_116326722_star-nc.png

[Garfie]

Spin doctoring; a 3 month wait between first and second dose is a disaster and we have no idea if it will create effective long-term immunity. They're taking the verified test data and saying "Umm nah we're going to try something else"... and many GP surgeries are actually refusing to follow the "new advice".

It's likely to end up with people needing a 3rd dose or even needing to restart the entire process, in an environment of limited supply.

Utter mess.

Yes, yet another, and such a predictable utter mess. But this will allow the government to claim they've been successful as more people will have been 'vaccinated'. Such a short sighted and risky move.

This is just another example of creating false hope in an attempt to maintain support. They boasted about the numbers of people who were being tested, whilst concealing the fact that results were not being returned in adequate time because the test and trace system was not functioning effectively.

They can have as many million vaccines as they like, but unless they have the systems in place to ensure vaccinations can take place safely and quickly, it means nothing. A bit like all the PPE they had but failed to deliver effectively...

Dismal.

[Garfie]

The advice and process for literally any adult vaccine you might get is that if you miss the 2nd dose window then you have to wait a while and then restart with the first dose again.

This decision goes against the advice of the people who made and tested the vaccine, and there are thousands of doctors speaking out against it, even GP's saying that they will not follow this advice with their patients.

Its an absolute joke. A dangerous shambles. Anyone who agrees to this is volunteering themselves to guinneapig an untested method and will at the end of the day have absolutely no idea if they're protected or not.

My advice is, if you're not in one of the MOST vulnerable groups, WAIT until they abandon this madness and until you're relatively sure that you'll get the proper dosage with the proper spacing as tested.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Garfie]

Just ludicrous, knee-jerk, anti-scientific nonsense. The focus should be on rolling out - PROPERLY - as fast as possible.
I'm honestly low-key furious. There's bad decisions and then there's this catastrophe.

This totally sums up my response. I'm swinging between feelings of utter dismay and anger. Yes sadly, none of these decisions surprise me any more. It's what I've learnt to expect from this government. Foolish decision after foolish decision...

[Garfie]

.....didn’t those same Chief Medical Officers, back in the day last Spring...say that mask wearing for healthy public would be a totally pointless thing...and yet...

They chose to say this because we didn't have enough PPE or the effective system to distribute it, and they couldn't risk the general public buying masks when they didn't have enough for those on the front line.

Logic told us back then that masks would help. That's why medical staff wear them and why people in countries that experience more viruses wear them as a matter of course.

I think it's obvious at times that the government's chosen medical officers are not entirely comfortable with what they are coerced into saying, but know they have to comply. Often more is revealed by what they don't say. I get the impression that JVT has, on occasions, said more than politicians are happy about. I simply don't fully trust what they are saying and base my opinions on what is said by independent medical and scientific experts.

[Garfie]

Then don't wheel them out in a victory parade. They didn't need to do it. we're all waiting patiently as it is, but the UK couldn't wait until we had enough, we used it as propaganda instead, and now more people are likely to die because of incompetence, optics, and flag-shagging.

They've done this repeatedly throughout the virus, repeatedly giving false hope to people with their spin. Time and time again we have seen the same story unfold. Boris is trying to present himself as some sort of superhero who is going to save us all, whilst not having a clue what he's doing. He is out of his depth and our country and its people are sadly suffering the consequences.

[Garfie]

Well it just makes the most common sense I feel.

I get what Arista is trying to say (and I hope he is right about this method working) but like you I sense and worry that the history books will look on this really badly.

I think the history books will look on the whole handling of this crisis badly.

[Zizu]

It’s interesting to hear that the one million people who’ve had the first injection are all in possession of documentation which is presumably legally binding ??

::::::

One of the above mentioned million people just rang into Radio LBC Live and quoted the following .
——-
Page 2 , second paragraph.

The second dose should be administered 21 days after the first injection.
Protection may not be effective until 7 days AFTER the second dose .


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[arista]

Its Great some Doctors will do the 2nd injection
and ignore the Gov. Confusion.

[Cherie]

Its Great some Doctors will do the 2nd injection
and ignore the Gov. Confusion.

I think that’s the right way to go...get people as immunised as possible before moving to the next cohort

My aunt ..85 has not been contacted as yet

[user104658]

It’s interesting to hear that the one million people who’ve had the first injection are all in possession of documentation which is presumably legally binding ??

::::::

One of the above mentioned million people just rang into Radio LBC Live and quoted the following .
——-
Page 2 , second paragraph.

The second dose should be administered 21 days after the first injection.
Protection may not be effective until 7 days AFTER the second dose.



Indeed.

It's not legally binding though, you'll notice they've said "should be" not "will be". They're careful about the wording of documents for this very reason.

[Kizzy]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/england-health-officials-defend-contingency-plan-to-mix-covid-vaccines

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/wp-content/uploads/sites/52/2020/12/C0994-System-letter-COVID-19-vaccination-deployment-planning-30-December-2020.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjknOLmxf3tAhUDQhUIHV-9BZQQFjAUegQIDBAC&usg=AOvVaw0qyPEwPqLLujEcwQ4bZ3tj

Completely conflicting advice here... one says they are interchangeable, the other not.

[Cherie]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/england-health-officials-defend-contingency-plan-to-mix-covid-vaccines

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/wp-content/uploads/sites/52/2020/12/C0994-System-letter-COVID-19-vaccination-deployment-planning-30-December-2020.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjknOLmxf3tAhUDQhUIHV-9BZQQFjAUegQIDBAC&usg=AOvVaw0qyPEwPqLLujEcwQ4bZ3tj

Completely conflicting advice here... one says they are interchangeable, the other not.

This question was asked at the Press conference, it was a categorical no to mixing ..at the very least they are two different methods used to make the vaccines so if the second shot is a booster of the first jab, it as to be the same vaccine

Although that Guardian article says ‘exceptional circumstances’ so it’s not mixing across the board

[Zizu]

This question was asked at the Press conference, it was a categorical no to mixing ..at the very least they are two different methods used to make the vaccines so if the second shot is a booster of the first jab, it as to be the same vaccine

Although that Guardian article says ‘exceptional circumstances’ so it’s not mixing across the board



This all sounds like pure madness


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[Kizzy]

This question was asked at the Press conference, it was a categorical no to mixing ..at the very least they are two different methods used to make the vaccines so if the second shot is a booster of the first jab, it as to be the same vaccine

Although that Guardian article says ‘exceptional circumstances’ so it’s not mixing across the board
Then it would be a question of checking in 3 months who has had which jab... if they're going ahead with inoculation of everyone with an initial dose then when the Pfizer vaccine's are all used how will they receive their 2nd dose?

Surely it would be better to have used one vaccine waited the
4 weeks gave the 2nd jab and then started with the astrazenica one?

[Cherie]

Then it would be a question of checking in 3 months who has had which jab... if they're going ahead with inoculation of everyone with an initial dose then when the Pfizer vaccine's are all used how will they receive their 2nd dose?

Surely it would be better to have used one vaccine waited the
4 weeks gave the 2nd jab and then started with the astrazenica one?

No I think the NHS are more than capable of rolling out two, three, four different vaccines at the same time, and they will have to, they can not rely on supply of just one product as already evidenced by Pfizer themselves

[Cherie]

India has approved the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine for use

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/india-prepares-for-vast-covid-vaccination-push-ahead-of-astrazeneca-oxford-jab-approval

[Zizu]

India has approved the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine for use



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/india-prepares-for-vast-covid-vaccination-push-ahead-of-astrazeneca-oxford-jab-approval



Hopefully THEY haven’t paid in advance for their ‘allocation’ .... they will need nearly 3 BILLION doses ( two doses each)




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[arista]

India has approved the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine for use

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/india-prepares-for-vast-covid-vaccination-push-ahead-of-astrazeneca-oxford-jab-approval



Yes 50million stockpiled
from their own Plant

[user104658]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/02/england-health-officials-defend-contingency-plan-to-mix-covid-vaccines

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/wp-content/uploads/sites/52/2020/12/C0994-System-letter-COVID-19-vaccination-deployment-planning-30-December-2020.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjknOLmxf3tAhUDQhUIHV-9BZQQFjAUegQIDBAC&usg=AOvVaw0qyPEwPqLLujEcwQ4bZ3tj

Completely conflicting advice here... one says they are interchangeable, the other not."British officials seem to have abandoned science completely now and are just trying to guess their way out of a mess"

Basically this.

[Kizzy]

No I think the NHS are more than capable of rolling out two, three, four different vaccines at the same time, and they will have to, they can not rely on supply of just one product as already evidenced by Pfizer themselves

Then they will have to be very careful to have enough of the Pfizer vaccine's left in 4 weeks to give those who have already had it their booster.
I'm not denigrating the NHS here at all... please don't get it twisted.

[Cherie]

Then they will have to be very careful to have enough of the Pfizer vaccine's left in 4 weeks to give those who have already had it their booster.
I'm not denigrating the NHS here at all... please don't get it twisted.

I am sure they will be super careful

[bots]

if people actually read the guidance that has been given, they will see that the vaccine authority have given a window of time for the 2nd jab. It is 4-12 weeks. Which means that those giving the injections have the freedom to choose when to do the vaccine

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/01/02/16/37520202-0-image-m-16_1609605945676.jpg


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9106461/Oxford-vaccine-arrives-UK-hospitals-batches-ready-use-Monday.html

[Kizzy]

if people actually read the guidance that has been given, they will see that the vaccine authority have given a window of time for the 2nd jab. It is 4-12 weeks. Which means that those giving the injections have the freedom to choose when to do the vaccine

Then why are they cancelling appointments? . ..

Why are doctors actively saying they are going against govt/ PHE advice to give boosters after 4 weeks as per Pfizer recommendations?

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/5E3B/production/_116332142_express.jpg

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/FA7B/production/_116332146_times.jpg

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/1403/production/_116332150_mail.jpg

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqxWU3SXcAE-qq_?format=jpg&name=medium

[Cherie]

y Sudarshan Varadhan and Krishna N. Das

CHENNAI/NEW DELHI (Reuters) - India's drugs regulator on Saturday recommended for emergency use a locally developed coronavirus vaccine called COVAXIN, which is expected to be a backup to the AstraZeneca/Oxford shot.

COVAXIN has been developed by Bharat Biotech, a company based in Hyderabad, with backing from the state-run Indian Council of Medical Research (ICMR).

Not much is known about the safety and efficacy of COVAXIN. The company says it has submitted all data to the drugs regulator.

The head of India's drugs regulator is expected to share details about it at a news conference on Sunday, when its formal approval is likely to be announced.

Here are some major developments related to COVAXIN:

June 30, 2020 - The Drugs Controller General of India (DGCI) approves COVAXIN for human trials, making it the country's first domestic vaccine candidate. (https://reut.rs/3hJ1j40)

July 3 - An official at ICMR, India's top clinical research agency, says in a leaked letter it envisages launching a coronavirus vaccine by Aug. 15, India's independence day, leading to questions from some health experts about the short timeline.

The same day, Bharat Biotech shares its target of producing up to 300 million doses of the vaccine if its trials succeed.

July 4 - ICMR says its decision to fast-track development of a potential coronavirus vaccine is in line with international standards.

Oct 23 - Bharat Biotech says it is in discussions with more than 10 countries that have shown an interest in its vaccine candidate. It says Phase 1 and 2 trials have found the vaccine to be safe.

Nov 01 - Bharat Biotech says it is planning to launch the vaccine in the second quarter of 2021.

Nov 16 - Bharat Biotech says it is starting phase III trials.

Nov 20 - Bharat Biotech offers Brazil the vaccine and a possible technology-transfer partnership.

Dec 07 - Bharat Biotech seeks emergency use approval for COVAXIN.

Dec 22 - U.S.-based drug developer Ocugen Inc says it has partnered with Bharat Biotech to co-develop the vaccine candidate for the U.S. market.

Jan 2 - Experts at India's drug regulator approve the vaccine "for restricted use in emergency situation in public interest as an abundant precaution, in clinical trial mode, specially in the context of infection by mutant strains".

Bharat Biotech says it has recruited 23,000 volunteers out of its target of 26,000 for an ongoing Phase-3 trial of COVAXIN in India that began in mid-November. It is the largest Phase III efficacy trial conducted for any vaccine in India.

(Reporting by Sudarshan Varadhan in CHENNAI and Krishna N. Das in NEW DELHI; Editing by Christina Fincher)

[arista]

Yes Good news in India their own Vaccine (COVAXIN) as well
the OxfordAstraZenneca one.

[Mystic Mock]

Yes Good news in India their own Vaccine (COVAXIN) as well
the OxfordAstraZenneca one.

Exactly.

The more Vaccines the better.

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eq2GbMLUwAAWZDZ?format=jpg&name=small

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eq2GbMOVEAAUfEu?format=jpg&name=small

[Ammi]

...’Jabby Monday’...?...I miss Dress Down Fridays so much...

[bots]

...’Jabby Monday’...?...I miss Dress Down Fridays so much...

:joker:

[AnnieK]

...’Jabby Monday’...?...I miss Dress Down Fridays so much...

Jabby Mondays....has a ring to it.
They need a Bez dancing with maracas at each of the vaccine stations

[Zizu]

Jabby Mondays....has a ring to it.

They need a Bez dancing with maracas at each of the vaccine stations



Done ..
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210104/6c1d7093e5c9cd666f71cf967999ea66.jpg


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[Vanessa]

Jabby Mondays....has a ring to it.
They need a Bez dancing with maracas at each of the vaccine stations

:joker:

[Withano]

Why doesn’t it feel like light at the end of the tunnel yet

[Ammi]

Why doesn’t it feel like light at the end of the tunnel yet

....the tunnel building was delayed because of COVID ...?...

[Zizu]

....the tunnel building was delayed because of COVID ...?...



Well we have ordered the materials for the bridge and they were supposed to have arrived but they haven’t ...


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[Nicky91]

Why doesn’t it feel like light at the end of the tunnel yet

i am feeling more and more optimistic now

and i do feel like we're getting to the light at the end of the tunnel

as long as people socially distance, stay home as much as they can, and there is enough vaccinating done to build up herd immunity

[bots]

i think there is a lot of reason for optimism if we can ramp up the vaccination program. I don't believe it will happen as quickly as people are thinking it will though

[user104658]

i think there is a lot of reason for optimism if we can ramp up the vaccination program. I don't believe it will happen as quickly as people are thinking it will thoughMy concern is that it's increasingly looking like the world is simply not going to keep up with the spread of the virus in terms of how fast they can roll out vaccination. Unsurprisingly, the quoted schedule was a lot of big talk and the vaccination rate isn't close to the numbers that were quoted and won't reach the numbers being quoted now any time soon. We knew this would be the case because we had exactly the same hot air about "how many tests would be done per day" less than 6 months ago.

[bots]

My concern is that it's increasingly looking like the world is simply not going to keep up with the spread of the virus in terms of how fast they can roll out vaccination. Unsurprisingly, the quoted schedule was a lot of big talk and the vaccination rate isn't close to the numbers that were quoted and won't reach the numbers being quoted now any time soon. We knew this would be the case because we had exactly the same hot air about "how many tests would be done per day" less than 6 months ago.

the way the infection rate is rising at the moment, we will hit 100k per day by the end of January unless there is a severe lockdown. With a 100k a day rate, its not going to take much time until we reach saturation of those likely to get infected and the numbers are going to just drop on their own. I have a feeling this is the strategy Boris will follow. That then gives breathing space until it all kicks off again in the autumn

[arista]

Why doesn’t it feel like light at the end of the tunnel yet


No

Big Fears the Oxford Vaccine can not stop
the New South African Varient Covid.



Blood tests in the Oxford Lab
being done now.


But Travel from South Africa has not been stopped?

[Mystic Mock]

No

Big Fears the Oxford Vaccine can not stop
the New South African Varient Covid.



Blood tests in the Oxford Lab
being done now.


But Travel from South Africa has not been stopped?

This is getting too much now.

Why are countries not shutting their borders with South Africa? If we can't vaccinate their variant then we (the rest of us) shouldn't be allowing them into our countries.

[bots]

This is getting too much now.

Why are countries not shutting their borders with South Africa? If we can't vaccinate their variant then we (the rest of us) shouldn't be allowing them into our countries.

they are all tested and quarantined ... thats all that is required

[Mystic Mock]

they are all tested and quarantined ... thats all that is required

Apparently that was the case with the Italians and the Chinese that came into all of our countries and look at us now.

[user104658]

No

Big Fears the Oxford Vaccine can not stop
the New South African Variant Covid.



Blood tests in the Oxford Lab
being done now.


But Travel from South Africa has not been stopped?

This was always the gamble of the traditional viral-vector vaccines (Oxford, Russian etc.) vs the newer, more expensive mRNA vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna). They are less likely to be as effective on new strains. They're likely to still be somewhat effective but might be a lower percentage (and thus no herd immunity).

HOWEVER even if they are still effective just in limiting severity, that's the biggest concern. If it still runs through the population but non-mild cases are extremely rare, then that's half the battle.

[Zizu]

No

Big Fears the Oxford Vaccine can not stop
the New South African Varient Covid.



Blood tests in the Oxford Lab
being done now.


But Travel from South Africa has not been stopped?



I just heard that last bit on LBC !!

This is pure madness ... they knew about the SA variant 10 to 14 days ago .. I presumed they’d stopped all flights from SA at that time !!!!


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[Zizu]

This was always the gamble of the traditional viral-vector vaccines (Oxford, Russian etc.) vs the newer, more expensive mRNA vaccines (Pfizer, Moderna). They are less likely to be as effective on new strains. They're likely to still be somewhat effective but might be a lower percentage (and thus no herd immunity).



HOWEVER even if they are still effective just in limiting severity, that's the biggest concern. If it still runs through the population but non-mild cases are extremely rare, then that's half the battle.



So OUR Oxford vaccine is likely to be one of the vaccines that will NOT be so effective against the SA variant ?


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[Cherie]

I just heard that last bit on LBC !!

This is pure madness ... they knew about the SA variant 10 to 14 days ago .. I presumed they’d stopped all flights from SA at that time !!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro#]

This is dated 24/12

BRITAIN has issued a ban on all travel from South Africa to halt the spread of a new, more infectious strain of coronavirus.

The Department of Transport last night confirmed that all passengers travelling from South Africa to England from 9am this morning would not be permitted to enter the country.

[bots]

So OUR Oxford vaccine is likely to be one of the vaccines that will NOT be so effective against the SA variant ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

the testing has only started on the new strain, no-one can possibly know yet whether it will be less effective or not. It's not a binary switch with these things. So, yes, it's another complexity, but its not all doom and gloom either. The media thrive on stuff like this and honestly, they have no idea what they are talking about

[Zizu]

#]



This is dated 24/12



BRITAIN has issued a ban on all travel from South Africa to halt the spread of a new, more infectious strain of coronavirus.



The Department of Transport last night confirmed that all passengers travelling from South Africa to England from 9am this morning would not be permitted to enter the country.



LBC presenter was just going mad after learning that flights coming from SA hadn’t stopped .. hopefully she has been misinformed and flights in had creased


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[user104658]

the testing has only started on the new strain, no-one can possibly know yet whether it will be less effective or not. It's not a binary switch with these things. So, yes, it's another complexity, but its not all doom and gloom either. The media thrive on stuff like this and honestly, they have no idea what they are talking about

Indeed, it's currently just a "we don't know because we haven't tested", not "we don't think it'll work".

However, broadly speaking, these new mRNA vector vaccines have a greater likelihood of still being highly effective against multiple strains than the "more traditional" viral vector vaccines, because they direct antibodies to a specific feature of the virus (and thus in theory to any virus with that feature) rather than directing them to the virus "as a whole".

With the latter it's less a case of "antibodies will attack if it still has that specific feature" and more a case of "antibodies will attack if it still looks more or less like the same virus".

The benefit of the former over the latter is that the part of the virus these vaccines recognise and attack is essential to viral reproduction (i.e. if that feature mutates out, that strain is unlikely to be able to spread anyway). With viral vector the virus could (in theory) mutate in other ways to look different enough to not be recognised by the vaccine-created antibodies whilst STILL HAVING the feature that lets it spread.

tl;dr whether or not Oxford still works depends on how different the strain looks overall. Whether or not the mRNA vaccines still work depends on the strain having a specific feature - and in theory, it NEEDS that feature.

[user104658]

The other consideration is %age of effectiveness. The faster a virus can spread, the larger the proportion of population higher efficacy is needed in the vaccine to be effective for herd immunity, so if the Oxford one is indeed lower...

[Nicky91]

The other consideration is %age of effectiveness. The faster a virus can spread, the larger the proportion of population higher efficacy is needed in the vaccine to be effective for herd immunity, so if the Oxford one is indeed lower...

who are the creators of the Oxford vaccine anyway?

[user104658]

who are the creators of the Oxford vaccine anyway?

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic Nicky? :joker:

... Oxford University ... in partnership with AstraZeneca (UK/Swedish BioPharma company)

[Ammi]

the testing has only started on the new strain, no-one can possibly know yet whether it will be less effective or not. It's not a binary switch with these things. So, yes, it's another complexity, but its not all doom and gloom either. The media thrive on stuff like this and honestly, they have no idea what they are talking about

...yeah, the media do tend to thrive on things like this...but equally I think it’s misleading when we’re told that ‘there is no reason to think the vaccines won’t be effective’..when the new variant was only known about for hours...

[user104658]

...yeah, the media do tend to thrive on things like this...but equally I think it’s misleading when we’re told that ‘there is no reason to think the vaccines won’t be effective’..when the new variant was only known about for hours...

I don't think that's misleading really - there is no specific reason to think they won't work (it's actually more likely that they will work). We just can't say FOR SURE that they will work or be as effective, because there is no test data to base that claim on.

[Ammi]

who are the creators of the Oxford vaccine anyway?

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic Nicky? :joker:

... Oxford University ... in partnership with AstraZeneca (UK/Swedish BioPharma company)

...Nicky..:love:...making sure those facts are fact proven for us again and again...

[Ammi]

I don't think that's misleading really - there is no specific reason to think they won't work (it's actually more likely that they will work). We just can't say FOR SURE that they will work or be as effective, because there is no test data to base that claim on.

...the situation is that it’s being tested atm so until those assessments have been made, it’s all unnecessary information, I feel...because if it actually wasn’t effective on the variant, then it absolutely would have been misleading in its ‘knee jerk reassurances’...

[Cherie]

There are quite a number of vaccines in progress for instance Imperial, so who knows where we will be vaccine wise in a a few months time

[Mystic Mock]

#]

This is dated 24/12

BRITAIN has issued a ban on all travel from South Africa to halt the spread of a new, more infectious strain of coronavirus.

The Department of Transport last night confirmed that all passengers travelling from South Africa to England from 9am this morning would not be permitted to enter the country.

That's good news.

[Nicky91]

any incoming travel here in Netherlands must be thoroughly screened, tested, quarantined and people can only enter upon ''negative tests only'' so no questionable cases either (who first got positive test, then negative test)

but there is a negative travel advice anyways, with the code orange


shame certain dutch people still have to go to germany, sneak into there to shop :rolleyes: many cases in german towns have come from that

[Zizu]

#]



This is dated 24/12



BRITAIN has issued a ban on all travel from South Africa to halt the spread of a new, more infectious strain of coronavirus.



The Department of Transport last night confirmed that all passengers travelling from South Africa to England from 9am this morning would not be permitted to enter the country.


That was dated 24/12 ...

Is this still in force though as LBC radio suggested otherwise earlier today


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[Kizzy]

I'm not a cynic. ... as you know....

But does anyone else think that this is why they postponed the 2nd Pfizer jabs for the vulnerable?

If they are proven the more effective of the 2, then they are going to be in greater demand.
I really can't see any other reason that makes any sense to have cancelled appointments for it.

[Zizu]

On a serious note ... now I’m not certain which vaccines they are producing BUT I just heard someone on LBC report that India have tonight put a total ban on exporting vaccines produced in their country ..

This may or not be disastrous for the uk I really can’t say but it doesn’t sound like a good development ..


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[Zizu]

I'm not a cynic. ... as you know....

But does anyone else think that this is why they postponed the 2nd Pfizer jabs for the vulnerable?

If they are proven the more effective of the 2, then they are going to be in greater demand.
I really can't see any other reason that makes any sense to have cancelled appointments for it.



As I understand it .. there’s a shortage of available vaccines so they want to give as many people as possible an initial dose to try and slow this virus down ... then worry about the second dose whenever possible .


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[Kizzy]

As I understand it .. there’s a shortage of available vaccines so they want to give as many people as possible an initial dose to try and slow this virus down ... then worry about the second dose whenever possible .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Nah... I don't buy it we had 60m doses of Pfizer and 100m of Oxford, plenty to carry on with the inoculation of those already receiving Pfizer whilst rolling out the Oxford jabs simultaneously.

[Zizu]

Nah... I don't buy it we had 60m doses of Pfizer and 100m of Oxford, plenty to carry on with the inoculation of those already receiving Pfizer whilst rolling out the Oxford jabs simultaneously.



Really ??

Maybe we ORDERED all those ...


Pretty sure I heard that the only things slowing down the vaccine program is shortage of vaccines and shortage of staff available to administer them ..


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[smudgie]

#]

This is dated 24/12

BRITAIN has issued a ban on all travel from South Africa to halt the spread of a new, more infectious strain of coronavirus.

The Department of Transport last night confirmed that all passengers travelling from South Africa to England from 9am this morning would not be permitted to enter the country.

Yep. A schoolteacher mate of my daughters went over to see his family.
After being advised not to.

[Zizu]

Wow the Oxford one only offers 70% immunity after the first jab? That’s a lot lower than I thought. They made out that two jobs offer 90-95% immunity and that there was barely any difference between 1 jab and 2 jabs. Maybe the Oxford vaccine just has the lowest immunity of all of them?


Is that correct .. ..

I don’t suppose you get a choice when the call comes though ..



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[user104658]

Nah... I don't buy it we had 60m doses of Pfizer and 100m of Oxford, plenty to carry on with the inoculation of those already receiving Pfizer whilst rolling out the Oxford jabs simultaneously.

We have ORDERED hundreds of millions of doses. They haven't actually been manufactured or delivered.

[Zizu]

Sobering thoughts from Thomas Moore Sky Science correspondent

So we know that the recent rise in infections is solely due to this new more virulent variant - it is 50% more transmittable .

The virus is staying one step ahead of the science .
It’s basically a race now between the ‘injections’ versus ‘infections’ ‘

90% of deaths are over 65 and we have 17 million people over 65 .

The dilemma is how quickly can we get an initial dose into 17 million people ... as the virus ain’t sitting around waiting ..


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[Kizzy]

We have ORDERED hundreds of millions of doses. They haven't actually been manufactured or delivered.

Really? Pfizer said millions of doses had been sent and the government reported recieving 22 deliveries on Christmas day.

[bots]

Really? Pfizer said millions of doses had been sent and the government reported recieving 22 deliveries on Christmas day.

the pfizer manufacture/distribution is much slower than the oxford vaccine due to its complexities. They will speed up but at the moment it is a challenge.

If we get the vulnerable vaccinated by the autumn, i think that should be considered a good result.

[Ammi]

Why Experts Are Warning Against Drinking Booze When You Have The Vaccine...


https://uk.yahoo.com/style/alcohol-and-the-covid-vaccine-120535616.html

[bots]

you should also get a good nights sleep before getting the jab as your body is more likely to generate good quantities of anti bodies.

[Ammi]

you should also get a good nights sleep before getting the jab as your body is more likely to generate good quantities of anti bodies.

...as if we’re all going to sleep like babies and be totally relaxed and calm the Eve before Jabber Day...:laugh:...

[Zizu]

the pfizer manufacture/distribution is much slower than the oxford vaccine due to its complexities. They will speed up but at the moment it is a challenge.



If we get the vulnerable vaccinated by the autumn, i think that should be considered a good result.



They’re saying they will achieve that by 6th Feb aren’t they or was that a different thing ?




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[Zizu]

Why Experts Are Warning Against Drinking Booze When You Have The Vaccine...





https://uk.yahoo.com/style/alcohol-and-the-covid-vaccine-120535616.html



Hopefully this will be mentioned to everyone or there’s going to be a lot of wasted vaccines


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[bots]

They’re saying they will achieve that by 6th Feb aren’t they or was that a different thing ?




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i'm classifying the vulnerable as 55 and over and those with existing conditions

[Zizu]

i'm classifying the vulnerable as 55 and over and those with existing conditions



Wonder what he was referring to yesterday then .. achieving ‘something’ by 6th Feb ??


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[user104658]

Why Experts Are Warning Against Drinking Booze When You Have The Vaccine...



https://uk.yahoo.com/style/alcohol-and-the-covid-vaccine-120535616.html
Whew! I don't drink so the vaccine will work much better for...

you should also get a good nights sleep before getting the jab

Oh never mind :bawling:

[user104658]

Wonder what he was referring to yesterday then .. achieving ‘something’ by 6th Feb ??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ProI think it was over-85's or maybe over-80's? By FAR the largest group for Covid deaths but only a small proportion of what's considered still "in a vulnerable group".

[Ammi]

...I believe that he was referring to over 70s in age and all of the other medically vulnerables etc...but as per Boris, it’s quite an ambitious hoped for in time span...let’s see how it goes with any potential delays being allowed for as well...

[Cherie]

Wonder what he was referring to yesterday then .. achieving ‘something’ by 6th Feb ??




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

didnt hear 6th Feb specifically, think he might have said mid Feb

The first 4 priority groups

Care homes, care staff
front line workers
over 80s
clinically vulnerable

[Ammi]

...I’m confused, he did say over 70yrs would all be vaccinated by mid February as well...I felt sure that I’d heard that, unless I’m misunderstanding something....?...

...from 5:44 in his speech...

MFEHemIYdaQ


...actually, what I did miss is that he said those were the ‘realistic projections’ from the NHS ...

[arista]

didnt hear 6th Feb specifically, think he might have said mid Feb

The first 4 priority groups

Care homes, care staff
front line workers
over 80s
clinically vulnerable


Gove MP has said today
it could be until March, now.

[Ammi]

...yeah, we have learned that with Boris, it all tends to be...a rough, maybe, possible guideline of a potential that might occurrence...other than that he’s almost spot on once he’s u-turned etc...

[Vanessa]

Why Experts Are Warning Against Drinking Booze When You Have The Vaccine...


https://uk.yahoo.com/style/alcohol-and-the-covid-vaccine-120535616.html

That's ok. I don't drink.

[arista]

The World Health Org.
Pfizer The 2 Vaccines must be done within 21 days.

Not the long UK 12 weeks

SkyNewsHD
said they stated that while the PM did his Conference, just now.