Boris has asked the Queen to suspend Parliment, The Queen has now approved

[Alf]

EU says no :hehe:

once out, Always outHere Here!

[Withano]

Actually people just want out and to be done with it, but going back in the original vote would destroy the country

I think the majority would actually want in and to be done with it because they like food and medicine etc.

[user104658]

How nice ,calling people stupid just because they don't share your views, some youndg people are very astute and know exactly what they voted for, your problem if you don't like that.

I'm not calling anyone stupid for not sharing my views, I'm alling them stupid for voting for something that will directly affect them in extremely negative ways. It's ridiculous. And no they don't know "exactly what they voted for" - they won't know until we're out of the EU and we start to actually see the economic damage that has been caused, the job losses, the devalued £, the lack of any trade deal that doesn't leave us worse off than we were as part of the single market, and the inability to move freely throughout Europe.

Some young people are indeed very astute. Most of them, actually. I am in no way calling people stupid because they're young... most young people voted remain.

I'm calling the Dragon Soup swilling yokels who spend too much time listening to their racist grandad, and not enough time learning about the global economy, stupid. Dumb as a bag of hammers. And no, I'm not sorry, because I'm extremely peeved that the country is going to be severely damaged by the popular vote of idiots.

[user104658]

Lets be real. If there was another referendum, remain would win at least 60:40. Probs way more.

People change their mind when faced with 4 years of migraines... and old people die a lot.

Nah, it would be 50/50 again. Maybe swing 52/48 to remain, maybe stay exactly what it was, because 2% either way is a pretty standard error margin. Nothing has changed in the public mindset. The people who voted for Brexit didn't understand the consequences then, and they don't understand them now.

[Withano]

Nah, it would be 50/50 again. Maybe swing 52/48 to remain, maybe stay exactly what it was, because 2% either way is a pretty standard error margin. Nothing has changed in the public mindset. The people who voted for Brexit didn't understand the consequences then, and they don't understand them now.

I disagree. I know a lot of people my age that wouldn’t dream of voting leave again. And far more leavers have died than remainers. And most of the new voters would be remainers too.

60:40 at least imo.

[Alf]

I'm not calling anyone stupid for not sharing my views, I'm alling them stupid for voting for something that will directly affect them in extremely negative ways. It's ridiculous. And no they don't know "exactly what they voted for" - they won't know until we're out of the EU and we start to actually see the economic damage that has been caused, the job losses, the devalued £, the lack of any trade deal that doesn't leave us worse off than we were as part of the single market, and the inability to move freely throughout Europe.

Some young people are indeed very astute. Most of them, actually. I am in no way calling people stupid because they're young... most young people voted remain.

I'm calling the Dragon Soup swilling yokels who spend too much time listening to their racist grandad, and not enough time learning about the global economy, stupid. Dumb as a bag of hammers. And no, I'm not sorry, because I'm extremely peeved that the country is going to be severely damaged by the popular vote of idiots.Why will it effect us in a negative way by not being in the EU Empire (aka The Dark side) but not effect other countries in a negative way that are not in the EU empire? What makes us special?

[Tom4784]

A delay is the only real option if they aren't going to go for the deal and I don't blame people for not going for Boris' deal since it won't prevent problems from arising with Ireland.

No deal is not an option and they need more time to sort out the backstop issue.

[Twosugars]

EU says no :hehe:

once out, Always out

:joker:

[Tom4784]

If there was another referendum, we'd get similar margins but reversed and then we'd inevitably end up with a third referendum down the line.

There will never be a definitive majority on whether or not we should remain or leave and so how we leave must be a compromise which is with a deal. You cannot justify a no deal brexit with only a few percent difference in votes.

[Twosugars]

You cant make an informed decision without knowing facts

How can you appreciate the backstop without knowing we dont own Ireland for example?

[The Slim Reaper]

Why will it effect us in a negative way by not being in the EU Empire (aka The Dark side) but not effect other countries in a negative way that are not in the EU empire? What makes us special?

This has been explained numerous times. You don't believe the truth.

More importantly than any of the financial implications, it's pretty much impossible for brexit and the good friday agreement to exist at the same time, so all this take back control, whilst we try to screw over a partner in the union, shows how it's purely ideological.

[Cherie]

You are screwing this waaay out of proportion cherie... nobody is wishing death on anyone.
I can't speak for others but personally it is my experience that old more conservative voters have a propensity to xenophobia too...That is my opinion, if you don't agree fine.
It's my observation.

and so because they are 'xenophobic' some people cant wait for them to die, is that where we are at?

JC is old, is it okay for him to die off so we can be done with him? hey why not go the whole hog and euthanise anyone over 70 if they don't care for our views, but this is the tolerant generation, right, we accept everyone and everything and anything goes, expect only it doesn't

[user104658]

Why will it effect us in a negative way by not being in the EU Empire (aka The Dark side) but not effect other countries in a negative way that are not in the EU empire? What makes us special?

Nothing. It will effect the rest of Europe in a negative way and the knock-on impact could well affect other aspects of the global economy.

However; the other countries will be negatively impacted by losing a link with ONE country. We will be affected by losing a direct link with DOZENS of countries, and the single market link with THE ENTIRE WORLD. It's just a bit different. I suspect it's you who believes that we are somehow "special" and that these other countries will be terribly damaged by losing us... comparable to us losing ALL of them?

[user104658]

Though I agree there's no point in trying to "remain" at this point, as it'll only draw the disagreement out forever.

The only sensible option at this point is to leave the "full" EU but maintain a customs and freedom of movement union, and then try to gradually step it up to be as close to full economic membership as possible.

[Twosugars]

and so because they are 'xenophobic' some people cant wait for them to die, is that where we are at?

JC is old, is it okay for him to die off so we can be done with him? hey why not go the whole hog and euthanise anyone over 70 if they don't care for our views, but this is the tolerant generation, right, we accept everyone and everything and anything goes, expect only it doesn't

:laugh:

You milked it for all it's worth and more

Old people die as do their opinions

Here for rejoining the eu in the future :dance:

[Cherie]

:laugh:

You milked it for all it's worth and more

Old people die as do their opinions

Here for rejoining the eu in the future :dance:

and young people are born and have equally vile opinions but they wont die for ages, is that where you are at?

all this being woke must be very tiring when it doesn't apply across the board, only when it suits lol

[Twosugars]

Though I agree there's no point in trying to "remain" at this point, as it'll only draw the disagreement out forever.

The only sensible option at this point is to leave the "full" EU but maintain a customs and freedom of movement union, and then try to gradually step it up to be as close to full economic membership as possible.

Absolutely.

Brexiters need to taste their own medicine first

Let's give them a chance to show us those sun lit uplands of brexit :hee: cant wait

[Cherie]

I am also of the opinion now that there is no point in a second referendum, the show must go on now, come what may

[Twosugars]

and young people are born and have equally vile opinions but they wont die for ages, is that where you are at?

all this being woke must be very tiring when it doesn't apply across the board, only when it suits lol

What are you talking about? Woke?
Theres nothing woke about changing opinions and people of different ages having different perspectives

I realize you try hard to be outraged but death is a biological inevitability

[Alf]

Absolutely.

Brexiters need to taste their own medicine first

Let's give them a chance to show us those sun lit uplands of brexit :hee: cant waitRule Britannia
Brittania rule the waves
Brittons never, never, never shall be slaves

[Twosugars]

Rule Britannia
Brittania rules the waves
Brittons never, never, never shall be slaves

We dont rule the waves anymore. Not for a long while.

But prepare to be slaves to america, china...and the eu :hee:

[The Slim Reaper]

Rule Britannia
Brittania rule the waves
Brittons never, never, never shall be slaves

We just had the contract to move slaves around the world, on those waves we ruled.

[Kazanne]

Not how I read it.
You stated some young people are astute ..... Then added indicating they were the ones who didn't agree with the poster.

Thereby, what does that make those who voted remain.
You can't think them astute too, from your own words.
So I stand by the point I raised.

I'd also dare bet, most of those young voting leave.
In no way, were voting happy to leave with no deal as you advocate, just to get it done.

I'm not arguing with you Joey I know what I meant ,whatever slant you put on it , no need to split hairs, to make it easier I will say the young people who want out are NOT necessarily stupid,they could have various reasons for wanting to leave.

[Cherie]

What are you talking about? Woke?
Theres nothing woke about changing opinions and people of different ages having different perspectives

I realize you try hard to be outraged but death is a biological inevitability

what has death got to do with Brexit?

You are talking about people dying and the UK rejoining... you have no idea what the next generation of young people will think, if we leave they will be born into a country that lies outside the UK and may not want to rejoin, and they will moan about the oldies (you) harking back to the EU membership years ….lol

[arista]

We dont rule the waves anymore. Not for a long while.

But prepare to be slaves to America, China...and the eu :hee:



Never
Silly words from you
even if in jest...................

[Twosugars]

what has death got to do with Brexit?

You are talking about people dying and the UK rejoining... you have no idea what the next generation of young people will think, if we leave they will be born into a country that lies outside the UK and may not want to rejoin, and they will moan about the oldies (you) harking back to the EU membership years ….lol

Death of older voters will be a factor in changing opinions on brexit, like any issue
What's the point in asking if the rest of your post shows you know the answer yourself?

The young are more progressive and open minded. Good for the EU.

[Twosugars]

Never
Silly words from you
even if in jest...................

We will be a junior partner

Silly to deny that, coming from a businessman

[Cherie]

Death of older voters will be a factor in changing opinions on brexit, like any issue
What's the point in asking if the rest of your post shows you know the answer yourself?

The young are more progressive and open minded. Good for the EU.


views that are pretty entrenched in bias for someone in their 30s

[arista]

We will be a junior partner

Silly to deny that, coming from a businessman


You have no idea
what is going down in the Future.


Get more Wider Data.

[joeysteele]

I'm with the Republic of Ireland.
It shouldn't be an assembly, DUP dominated, that should be able to end the single market suggestion if in place.

Definitely Lady Harmen talks the most sense re N Ireland.
As does the Republic of Ireland and all other Parties, except for the extreme DUP.

So without the Republic of Ireland content with any deal, this is a deal then I could not agree with, if I had a vote.

I think it wrong that politicians and some voters across the UK.
Are just dismissing the concerns of N Ireland.

Just about every sector.
Businesses, the majority of voters. The Parties of N Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
Are all really worried except the extremist DUP.

That concern will be ignored to the shame of the UK or what's left of it, after brexit.
IF, any deal is not 100% right for the Irish.

No deal would as near sure as can be, catastrophic.

[Alf]

Death of older voters will be a factor in changing opinions on brexit, like any issue
What's the point in asking if the rest of your post shows you know the answer yourself?

The young are more progressive and open minded. Good for the EU.Every generation of young are more progressive, but then they grow old and think to themselves, "it was all a load of bollox wasn't it? what a dick I must of sounded like at that age"

[Alf]

Listen to Peter Hirchens, a full on Trotskyist, Marxist in his younger days, then he grew up.

[Alf]

Winston Churchill. A Liberal in his younger days, but became a Conservative as he matured.

[Twosugars]

Every generation of young are more progressive, but then they grow old and think to themselves, "it was all a load of bollox wasn't it? what a dick I must of sounded like at that age"

It's the young that push civilisation forward
The old are too lazy

[Twosugars]

You have no idea
what is going down in the Future.


Get more Wider Data.

:laugh: what data? We will still be 60 mln people market
As opposed to over 400 mln eu, 300 mln us and 1.3 bn chinese

[Twosugars]

Listen to Peter Hirchens, a full on Trotskyist, Marxist in his younger days, then he grew up.

I'd rather not take a daily hail journo as an example

[Beso]

Well done Boris for pledging to raise the minimum wage to 10.50...That's a massive hike and will make our foreign friends think twice about leaving, thus stopping everyone flapping thier arms about.:clap1:

[arista]

:laugh: what data? We will still be 60 mln people market
As opposed to over 400 mln eu, 300 mln us and 1.3 bn chinese


You need more than Just Guardian,

You still do not know what will happen
in the next few months

[arista]

1179721968683225088

Send him Home
get the under study there

[Twosugars]

You need more than Just Guardian,

You still do not know what will happen
in the next few months

Dont change the subject.

UK is a middle sized European economy, periodt

[Twosugars]

1179721968683225088

Send him Home
get the under study there

One of the greatest speakers, saved our parliamentary democracy together the the supreme court :dance:
In your face bojo

[Kizzy]

and so because they are 'xenophobic' some people cant wait for them to die, is that where we are at?

JC is old, is it okay for him to die off so we can be done with him? hey why not go the whole hog and euthanise anyone over 70 if they don't care for our views, but this is the tolerant generation, right, we accept everyone and everything and anything goes, expect only it doesn't

Wow you're like a dog with a bone stop trying to put words in people's mouths cherie it's ridiculous. :/

[arista]

One of the greatest speakers, saved our parliamentary democracy together the the supreme court :dance:
In your face bojo


He Used to be Good
then he broke the impartial rules

As his Voice has Gone
he is no good
he needs to rest his voice

[arista]

Dont change the subject.

UK is a middle sized European economy, period


Sure
But soon will can be out of the EU mess

[rusticgal]

Lets be real. If there was another referendum, remain would win at least 60:40. Probs way more.

People change their mind when faced with 4 years of migraines... and old people die a lot.


If there was another vote, people who voted Leave would refuse to vote based on the failure of democracy, so it’s pretty obvious who would win...it proves nothing!...but it won’t happen :cheer2:

[Twosugars]

Sure
But soon will can be out of the EU mess

Without a big block behind us. At the mercy of big players

[arista]

1179804006605979648

You Tell them , Love

[arista]

Without a big block behind us. At the mercy of big players

https://www.insidescandinavianbusiness.com/img/big/OW.jpg

[Kazanne]

It's the young that push civilisation forward
The old are too lazy

They weren't too lazy to go out and fight and die for our freedom, have some bloody respect, how are the older generation lazy ? the young ones have it far easier than they ever did.

[Beso]

I don't know one lazy person over the age of 70...what a dreadful thing to say...

[user104658]

They weren't too lazy to go out and fight and die for our freedom, have some bloody respect, how are the older generation lazy ? the young ones have it far easier than they ever did."They fought for our freedom!!"

Kazanne when we talk about old people, we're talking about boomers. The youngest people who "fought for our freedom", WW2 veterans, are now all in their 90's.

Thebolder generation are aged 60 - 90 and have not seen any significant war. So this tired old rhetoric of the older generation being war heroes simply has to be put to bed.

[user104658]

I don't know one lazy person over the age of 70...

Not one? What a heap of utterly ludicrous shyte, Parm.

[The Slim Reaper]

Listen to Peter Hirchens, a full on Trotskyist, Marxist in his younger days, then he grew up.

Or his brother, also a trotskyite that remained of the left, or how about Elizabeth Warren, a conservative in her younger days but now a liberal. It's a myth that people grow into conservatism later in life. Some do, some don't. Same as liberalism.

[joeysteele]

"They fought for our freedom!!"

Kazanne when we talk about old people, we're talking about boomers. The youngest people who "fought for our freedom", WW2 veterans, are now all in their 90's.

Thebolder generation are aged 60 - 90 and have not seen any significant war. So this tired old rhetoric of the older generation being war heroes simply has to be put to bed.


Exactly right.
Also more recent it's young people who lost their lives in Iraq conflicts.
That's chosen to be overlooked.

It's the futures too, (like you pointed out as to your own family TS), of the young that for generations to come will be impacted on, more likely than not, by Brexit.
Particularly a no deal one.

[Beso]

Not one? What a heap of utterly ludicrous shyte, Parm.

Nope..not one..my mum and all her friends are constantly on the golf course or socialising if they ain't looking after the grand kids or picking up the pissed grand daughter from the pub..

My dad's mates are the same..he's gone now but was working away on his bike until a few months before he died..my uncle died a few.months ago..the doctors had to drag him of his push bike and he was 82..


So no I don't know any that are lazy, so to say that old people are is ridiculous.

Im sure there are though , like the ones that prop up the bar along side the coke snorting, pool playing scruffy youths on a Tuesday afternoon though..

[Kazanne]

"They fought for our freedom!!"

Kazanne when we talk about old people, we're talking about boomers. The youngest people who "fought for our freedom", WW2 veterans, are now all in their 90's.

Thebolder generation are aged 60 - 90 and have not seen any significant war. So this tired old rhetoric of the older generation being war heroes simply has to be put to bed.

I don't consider 60 old, but even so to call them lazy is still not nice ,my mom is in her 60s and no way is she lazy ,neither is my nan, and I am sure most of our parents are in that age bracket , should they all die so Brexit cant happen :shrug: as some of them are a pain in the arse for voting to leave.Are 90year olds not allowed to vote ?

[Beso]

How utterly ridiculous to suggest someone who has put 50 adult years into the system should have thier votes nullified in favour of someone barely able to spunk properly.

[Twosugars]

They weren't too lazy to go out and fight and die for our freedom, have some bloody respect, how are the older generation lazy ? the young ones have it far easier than they ever did.

Geez your reading comprehension :facepalm:


When did they fight? When they were young!!
Proves my point

I wasnt talking about a specific generation being lazy but any generation

It's when we are young we are at our boldest and open minded

[Kazanne]

Geez your reading comprehension :facepalm:


When did they fight? When they were young!!
Proves my point

I wasnt talking about a specific generation being lazy but any generation

It's when we are young we are at our boldest and open minded

Oh isn't it terrible that you have to deal with all those old ,lazy ,stupid people who wont fall into line with your views.

[Twosugars]

Oh isn't it terrible that you have to deal with all those old ,lazy ,stupid people who wont fall into line with your views.

You could say the same about brexiters treatment of remainers. Calling us enemies of the people or traitors.
Only bc you got the slimmest of majorities over something you were lied to and had no idea about. Ireland, Kazanne?

[Cherie]

Wow you're like a dog with a bone stop trying to put words in people's mouths cherie it's ridiculous. :/

Am i upsetting you with my wisdom kizzy, too bad..:/

[joeysteele]

Speaking for myself only here.

All are entitled to vote.

However, my Grandparents always when voting thought of the impact of what they voted for on the lives of myself and their Grandchildren,Great Grandchildren and the next generation down too.

I'd like to hope when I am in my ,60s,70s +
If I reach that.

Then when voting, I will not think how things will or will not affect me but what I should be doing for the next and future generations.
As to the example of my own Grandparents.

[Beso]

Speaking for myself only here.

All are entitled to vote.

However, my Grandparents always when voting thought of the impact of what they voted for on the lives of myself and their Grandchildren,Great Grandchildren and the next generation down too.

I'd like to hope when I am in my ,60s,70s +
If I reach that.

Then when voting, I will not think how things will or will not affect me but what I should be doing for the next and future generations.
As to the example of my own Grandparents.



Surely that is what every old person who votes now and in the future vote for, whoever or whatever they vote for.:shrug:

[joeysteele]

Surely that is what every old person who votes now and in the future vote for, whoever or whatever they vote for.:shrug:

No it isn't very sadly.

I've witnessed where young people are dismayed at their Parents and Grandparents who took no heed of their concerns in the referendum.

So no,.I don't agree.

A general election, where it's only for 5 years max.
More fair enough.
Although my Grandparents and Parents looked at long term effects on the next generations.

The referendum, very much will impact on the younger generation for likely many decades.
To reverse it, will cost multi billions in the future.

My own Mum, asked me how I would be voting and my Brothers and their children how they felt.
As just about all were for remain.
She then also voted remain.

So, no I don't agree that the futures of the next generation are considered enough by older voters voting.
Even if the vote will alter dramatically, possibly negatively too, the future.

Climate change too.
The young I think are the growing support as to the issue.
Again with the much older generation dismissing it.
Unfortunately.

[Beso]

No it isn't very sadly.

I've witnessed where young people are dismayed at their Parents and Grandparents who took no heed of their concerns in the referendum.

So no,.I don't agree.

A general election, where it's only for 5 years max.
More fair enough.
Although my Grandparents and Parents looked at long term effects on the next generations.

The referendum, very much will impact on the younger generation for likely many decades.
To reverse it, will cost multi billions in the future.

My own Mum, asked me how I would be voting and my Brothers and their children how they felt.
As just about all were for remain.
She then also voted remain.

So, no I don't agree that the futures of the next generation are considered enough by older voters voting.
Even if the vote will alter dramatically, possibly negatively too, the future.

Climate change too.
The young I think are the growing support as to the issue.
Again with the much older generation dismissing it.
Unfortunately.



Who is to say the young people are correct though, yeah sure they believe they are, but an old person can think they are right as well and vote accordingly..


Edit....and don't take this the wrong way, but your mum...voting the way you wanted to vote astounds me..too much cotton wool upbringing in my opinion these days.


But of course that may have been going on in other houses with kids wanting to exit and the parents wanting to stay, the parents could have voted leave because thier kids wanted to...yes..will that have happened much?


Or would those parents have grounded thier kids on voting day.

[user104658]

Nope..not one..my mum and all her friends are constantly on the golf course or socialising if they ain't looking after the grand kids or picking up the pissed grand daughter from the pub..



My dad's mates are the same..he's gone now but was working away on his bike until a few months before he died..my uncle died a few.months ago..the doctors had to drag him of his push bike and he was 82..





So no I don't know any that are lazy, so to say that old people are is ridiculous.



Im sure there are though , like the ones that prop up the bar along side the coke snorting, pool playing scruffy youths on a Tuesday afternoon though..Running in different circles than me then Parm because in my old job I knew multiple blokes in their 60s and 70s who hadn't worked a full day in their entire life.

Im not saying all, or even many, old people are lazy buggers... I'm just saying that it's ridiculous to claim that there are "none".

[user104658]

I don't consider 60 old, but even so to call them lazy is still not nice ,my mom is in her 60s and no way is she lazy ,neither is my nan, and I am sure most of our parents are in that age bracket , should they all die so Brexit cant happen :shrug: as some of them are a pain in the arse for voting to leave.Are 90year olds not allowed to vote ?I didn't call them lazy in my reply to you or set out to insult them in any way - I just pointed out that the claim that the current older generation "fought for our freedom" is patently wrong. I haven't fought in any wars either, there's nothing immoral about not being a war hero, I'm just pointing out that people often make the mistake of thinking "old people" these days are still the WW2 veterans, but that's not the case. People in their 70s and 80s weren't old enough to have fought in WW2. So they did not "fight for our freedom" ... They are post-war boomers, who had (objectively) the easiest access to employment and housing of any point in history. Which isn't immoral either but it does give them a skewed worldview of how things would be better if they were like "the good old days when we didn't need the EU". We do need European trade now, globalisation is an economic reality that isn't going away, and trying to hide from it is going to leave this country in the dust.

[bots]

was nice of America to slap 25% tariff on whisky :fist:

bodes well for an american trade deal i think

[joeysteele]

Who is to say the young people are correct though, yeah sure they believe they are, but an old person can think they are right as well and vote accordingly..


Edit....and don't take this the wrong way, but your mum...voting the way you wanted to vote astounds me..too much cotton wool upbringing in my opinion these days.


But of course that may have been going on in other houses with kids wanting to exit and the parents wanting to stay, the parents could have voted leave because thier kids wanted to...yes..will that have happened much?


Or would those parents have grounded thier kids on voting day.



I brought my Mum into this, with her permission so its fair game for you to make a ridiculous, though not to you comment.

Far from being wrapped in cotton wool, my Parents were strict, a little less so with me as I came around 20 years after the next Brother to me.
She cared and cares about the futures of her family..
Actually, maybe possibly not to.you, I consider that fully commendable.

As to the young maybe being wrong.
Well past generations have got things wrong also.

Leaving the EU undoubtedly will impact on the young now, in the near future and for many decades into their future.
So if they're wrong, they'd have had to live and learn on that.
From their own choice made.
Not have that forced on them however by those they may never be able to hold to account for it.

You can disagree and head into unnecessary digs all you like.
I disagree with you and always will, on the referendum and the EU and the way it all impacts on the young and future generations for the rest of their lives.

[Twosugars]

Surely that is what every old person who votes now and in the future vote for, whoever or whatever they vote for.:shrug:

The day after the referendum I was talking to an old couple. They literally said that their reason for voting brexit was "bc the young ones have it too easy" !
I didnt continue the convo after that.
My partner's parents had no idea what they voted for, just followed what the Daily Fail told them to do. Last year they voted for brexit party in euro elections bc theres too many blacks in the country!
A friend in her 50s voted brexit bc she is pro GM food
Stupid, stupid and stupid.

So paint them as you like, my experience tells me something else

[Beso]

Running in different circles than me then Parm because in my old job I knew multiple blokes in their 60s and 70s who hadn't worked a full day in their entire life.

Im not saying all, or even many, old people are lazy buggers... I'm just saying that it's ridiculous to claim that there are "none".

Even though I said I don't know any, I have known the ones that prop up the bar in the past..they looked 70 but looking back i dont think that they were much older than 40-50...this was scotland 1985-91

[Beso]

I brought my Mum into this, with her permission so its fair game for you to make a ridiculous, though not to you comment.

Far from being wrapped in cotton wool, my Parents were strict, a little less so with me as I came around 20 years after the next Brother to me.
She cared and cares about the futures of her family..
Actually, maybe possibly not to.you, I consider that fully commendable.

As to the young maybe being wrong.
Well past generations have got things wrong also.

Leaving the EU undoubtedly will impact on the young now, in the near future and for many decades into their future.
So if they're wrong, they'd have had to live and learn on that.
From their own choice made.
Not have that forced on them however by those they may never be able to hold to account for it.

You can disagree and head into unnecessary digs all you like.
I disagree with you and always will, on the referendum and the EU and the way it all impacts on the young and future generations for the rest of their lives.



Not a dig at all....we shall leave it there.

[Beso]

The day after the referendum I was talking to an old couple. They literally said that their reason for voting brexit was "bc the young ones have it too easy" !
I didnt continue the convo after that.
My partner's parents had no idea what they voted for, just followed what the Daily Fail told them to do. Last year they voted for brexit party in euro elections bc theres too many blacks in the country!
A friend in her 50s voted brexit bc she is pro GM food
Stupid, stupid and stupid.

So paint them as you like, my experience tells me something else


I bet they walked of relieved...when you shut up

[James]

I disagree. I know a lot of people my age that wouldn’t dream of voting leave again. And far more leavers have died than remainers. And most of the new voters would be remainers too.

60:40 at least imo.

I think another referendum would be as close as before.

The trouble with it is that it is being promoted by people who supported remain before and still want to remain, rather than people who voted leave before and have changed their minds.

A lot of leave voters, in the event of a new referendum, would think that their vote didn't count the first time.

I think leave would be the favourite to win again - I don't see much evidence of many changed minds.

I'd give remain no more than a 1 in 3 chance of winning.

But even in the event of remain winning a new vote we have consider the after effects - what you would get is a block of voters who vote for an anti-EU party at every forthcoming election, and the issue would never go away.

The best option is to leave with a deal.

[Beso]

I was talking to the young apprentice at work 2 mins ago, I asked him about brexit...


He said..."I want to remain cause Boris has a silly haircut bruv"

Double tea duties tomorrow for young Lewis.

[Beso]

Leave would walk a new vote..the sleeping masses would come out in droves....but it won't happen so it's a mute point.

[Tom4784]

what has death got to do with Brexit?

You are talking about people dying and the UK rejoining... you have no idea what the next generation of young people will think, if we leave they will be born into a country that lies outside the UK and may not want to rejoin, and they will moan about the oldies (you) harking back to the EU membership years ….lol

Considering that the younger demographics were almost entirely supported Remain and there's about 60-70 years ahead of them before their generation dies, it's not really likely that the viewpoint will change, especially when all the analysts agree that Post-Brexit Britain will be fraught with difficulty.

I think that if we were to do another referendum now, it would be Remain that would take Leave's narrow majority but to do so would just mean more referendums that won't lead anywhere.

[Tom4784]

As for the bull**** about liberal viewpoints being something you grow out of, if that was true it would still be illegal to be gay and segregation would still be a thing but it's not. In the past 20 years alone, there's been more victories in the battle for gay rights then there's been in the decades preceding it. Not since the days of the Stonewall riots and the legalisation of gay sex has there been such an explosion of progress for the LGBT cause.

If what you were saying was true, Alf, none of that progress would have ever come to pass.

[Twosugars]

As for the bull**** about liberal viewpoints being something you grow out of, if that was true it would still be illegal to be gay and segregation would still be a thing but it's not. In the past 20 years alone, there's been more victories in the battle for gay rights then there's been in the decades preceding it. Not since the days of the Stonewall riots and the legalisation of gay sex has there been such an explosion of progress for the LGBT cause.

If what you were saying was true, Alf, none of that progress would have ever come to pass.

Very true
Otherwise the civilisation would never progress

Back in prehistoric times, a bunch of all farts talking: this new fangled round thing, the wheel, will never catch on!

[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/jcuPE5nmLnBhn-dKiV8Q_g/https/media.fyre.co/IU36t8dQWqQBKj35QnAm_i.JPG

[bots]

i think it is simplistic to say that the younger generation support close ties with the EU when that's all they have ever known and therefore have no reference to compare against. If an independent UK exists for 4 decades lets see what the demographics reflect then.

[Kizzy]

Am i upsetting you with my wisdom kizzy, too bad..:/

It's not wisdom when you're just making wild accusations.

Conservatives have relied on the grey vote for years, come the next election it's a given that many might not be here to vote and I don't see there being as many minded to replace them.

[Cherie]

It's not wisdom when you're just making wild accusations.

Conservatives have relied on the grey vote for years, come the next election it's a given that many might not be here to vote and I don't see there being as many minded to replace them.

so you are saying all the current con voters voted that way all their life?

there is no such thing as a life long supporter any more, apart from some entrenched hardliners

I've voted for everyone but the cons over the years, I am sure a lot of people have done the same, as people get older they tend to vote on polices, ask Nick Clegg why the lib dems did so well when their policy was to axe tuition fees, ask Mrs May why she did so badly in the last election...was it not something to do with her social care policy? it certainly wasn't turkeys voting for Christmas that is for sure, the grey vote just like any other vote can go anywhere

[Cherie]

I remember a certain member at the last election saying it was pointless voting as there were too many old people, I won't mention his name to spare his blushes.... I suggested Mays social policy and Corbyns popularity with the youth might suggest otherwise...he was having none of it, probably didn't vote either

[Kazanne]

so you are saying all the current con voters voted that way all their life?

there is no such thing as a life long supporter any more, apart from some entrenched hardliners

I've voted for everyone but the cons over the years, I am sure a lot of people have done the same, as people get older they tend to vote on polices, ask Nick Clegg why the lib dems did so well when their policy was to axe tuition fees, ask Mrs May why she did so badly in the last election...was it not something to do with her social care policy? it certainly wasn't turkeys voting for Christmas that is for sure, the grey vote just like any other vote can go anywhere

This is true Cherie,I can say from experience we were always Labour supporters, but the last couple of times we have gone for the Conservatives, I didn't want to follow what the family had just done for years, I wanted to make my own mind up and I did, I guess it happens all the time, why would anyone vote for a party because their parents did :shrug:

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1179153952509714432/3n6fOW48?format=jpg&name=small
Sexy American Hottie
back in the Day

[Kizzy]

so you are saying all the current con voters voted that way all their life?

there is no such thing as a life long supporter any more, apart from some entrenched hardliners

I've voted for everyone but the cons over the years, I am sure a lot of people have done the same, as people get older they tend to vote on polices, ask Nick Clegg why the lib dems did so well when their policy was to axe tuition fees, ask Mrs May why she did so badly in the last election...was it not something to do with her social care policy? it certainly wasn't turkeys voting for Christmas that is for sure, the grey vote just like any other vote can go anywhere

No.. I didn't say they had voted that way all their lives. The old one nation tories pandered to the older voter so they could rely on their support. I don't deny that is changing, not sure if it's policy or party direction.

[Vicky.]

The older vote does tend to go the tories. I expect the reason for this is quite simple..people do not vote on policies as such, they vote on who they would be better off under. Obviously poor people and younger ones are not likely to vote Tory, hwever, as they get older, get more savings, higher wages, own houses, etc...Torys look more appealing, as they tend to look after those well off and only target those very poor for cuts and such. So people turning more and more Tory as they age, makes a lot of sense to me really. I know loads will say they vote on whats best for the country, etc etc, but I do think really..most people vote on whats best for them..and I don't really see a problem with that.

Disclaimer - Not all older people are like that, etc etc. Obvioudly speaking broadly here. Given it seems I have to specify evertime I post that I do not mean every single member of a group thinks the same, and that. Even though that should go without saying..

[arista]

Scotland:
Johnson Lawyers say they will Extend
if he does not get out on a Deal by the 19th of Oct.


https://news.sky.com/story/pm-will-seek-brexit-extension-if-no-deal-agreed-by-19-october-11827149

[arista]

1180089161056968705

[Twosugars]

Scotland:
Johnson Lawyers say they will Extend
if he does not get out on a Deal by the 19th of Oct.


https://news.sky.com/story/pm-will-seek-brexit-extension-if-no-deal-agreed-by-19-october-11827149

So I take he will die in a ditch? :laugh:

That's what happens if you use stupid immature rhetoric

[arista]

No that's not the whole Story
he is still saying the Benn act is not the whole story
and will leave on the 31st.

At the same time as the lawyers
stating he will follow the Benn act.

[Kazanne]

He hasn't got much choice has he ? but I'm guessing some of the remainers will be ready to pounce on him at every opportunity they can, I still think Boris would win a GE whenever that takes place,people will not forget how he was blocked at every turn .

[Tom4784]

Easily led Brexiters will remember whatever fairy tale they want to hear.

If you think Boris is a victim then you aren't paying attention.

[Twosugars]

let's have an extension and a second referendum :dance:

[bots]

The older vote does tend to go the tories. I expect the reason for this is quite simple..people do not vote on policies as such, they vote on who they would be better off under. Obviously poor people and younger ones are not likely to vote Tory, hwever, as they get older, get more savings, higher wages, own houses, etc...Torys look more appealing, as they tend to look after those well off and only target those very poor for cuts and such. So people turning more and more Tory as they age, makes a lot of sense to me really. I know loads will say they vote on whats best for the country, etc etc, but I do think really..most people vote on whats best for them..and I don't really see a problem with that.

Disclaimer - Not all older people are like that, etc etc. Obvioudly speaking broadly here. Given it seems I have to specify evertime I post that I do not mean every single member of a group thinks the same, and that. Even though that should go without saying..

i think the old political allegiances have gone out the window. What was true even 5 years ago no longer holds true. I will never vote tory or labour again as a matter of principle. It's anyones guess if I will find a party i am willing to get behind at the next GE

[Vicky.]

i think the old political allegiances have gone out the window. What was true even 5 years ago no longer holds true. I will never vote tory or labour again as a matter of principle. It's anyones guess if I will find a party i am willing to get behind at the next GE

Am in the same boat. Been politically homeless for a year or so now. Theres huge issues with every party..need a new one really, with sensible people.

[joeysteele]

Easily led Brexiters will remember whatever fairy tale they want to hear.

If you think Boris is a victim then you aren't paying attention.

They will indeed.

I doubt anyone being really serious would ever see Johnson as a victim.
Only his extreme hardline diehard supporters could think that.
Not a chance is he.

After his plotting, deceit, lies and backstabbing against his 2 former Prime Miinister leaders.

Victim indeed.
It's those who oppose him who are the real victims, of his actions.

[Alf]

They will indeed.

I doubt anyone being really serious would ever see Johnson as a victim.
Only his extreme hardline diehard supporters could think that.
Not a chance is he.

After his plotting, deceit, lies and backstabbing against his 2 former Prime Miinister leaders.

Victim indeed.
It's those who oppose him who are the real victims, of his actions.Extreme die hard supporters? They're such extreme die hard supporters of his, that if he delays, they'll abandon him and put their support behind Farage.

[Vicky.]

This country cannot be a member of eu for as long as the half/half split exist.
So show us all the good times you promised and we will see.
If and when it proves to be ****, as many of remainers believe, a new generation can make a better informed decision about rejoining

I seriously doubt the EU would take us back after all this bollocks mind, and I don't blame them one bit. Rejoining when things go wrong is like putting a plaster on

[joeysteele]

I seriously doubt the EU would take us back after all this bollocks mind, and I don't blame them one bit. Rejoining when things go wrong is like putting a plaster on

I agree with all that.
From Labour's referendum in 1975 as to staying in the EEC.

We, in this Country have elected government after government, Con and Lab.
Under numerous PMs, who have all signed treaties forming the EU.
Never once asking the voters if they agreed with those treaties to be signed.
Yet we elected those governments over and over.

Margaret Thatcher was of the main supporters of the single market.
She won a rebate, left in place ever since.
We were given by the EU an opt out on joining the Euro.

Then like all other EU member Nations we had a veto.
Nothing we didn't want or support in the EU we could veto.
Only one Nation needs to use their veto to stop something.

After putting all that in place for ALL the member EU Nations, we are now walking off blaming the EU, even for things they haven't actually been responsible for re the EU court.

It's actually tragic.

[Alf]

Boris just tweeted

"New deal or no deal, but no delay."

[Kazanne]

I really cannot stand this man, he will do anything to get into power .
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/jeremy-corbyn-urges-labour-mps-not-to-vote-for-boris-johnsons-brexit-proposal-sparking-fears-he-will-remove-the-whip-from-those-who-disobey-him/ar-AAIfLGn?ocid=spartanntp

[Vicky.]

Nah, it would be 50/50 again. Maybe swing 52/48 to remain, maybe stay exactly what it was, because 2% either way is a pretty standard error margin. Nothing has changed in the public mindset. The people who voted for Brexit didn't understand the consequences then, and they don't understand them now.

Well, given they write every little thing off as 'fear mongering'. Heads in sand, purposely.

[Tom4784]

Extreme die hard supporters? They're such extreme die hard supporters of his, that if he delays, they'll abandon him and put their support behind Farage.


The only benefit from this scenario is that when Brexit gets delayed and we inevitably have another Election, the brexiters will end up hurting themselves by splitting the vote between the Brexit party and the Tories. With a bit of luck, the split will take them both out of the running.

It's not surprising that Brexiters would jump ship to the next con man though. The phrase' Fool me once, shame on you...' would be perfect for Brexiters if there was about 50 more lines of it to take into account all the times that Brexiters have allowed themselves to be fooled by things they want to hear.

[Tom4784]

Well, given they write every little thing off as 'fear mongering'. Heads in sand, purposely.

I think there'd be enough of a percentage of swing voters that would swing things back to Remain but, tbh, that would just lead to years and years of Brexiter tantrums and enough tears of red faced manchildren to salt the water supply.

Another referendum would just lead to another and another. Leaving with a deal is the only real option we have.

[Kizzy]

I cannot stand this man...he really will do anything to give trump power.

'Boris Johnson*is scrapping a commitment by*Theresa May*to stick to EU rules on environment, safety standards, and workers' rights – to raise his chances of getting a trade agreement with Donald Trump," writes Brussels correspondent Jon Stone.


"The so-called "level playing field", included in the Brexit deal negotiated by the former prime minister, were a commitment to abide by similar rule to the EU in exchange for market access.'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-news-live-today-brexit-latest-eu-plan-proposal-a9142606.html

[Twosugars]

I cannot stand this man...he really will do anything to give trump power.

'Boris Johnson*is scrapping a commitment by*Theresa May*to stick to EU rules on environment, safety standards, and workers' rights – to raise his chances of getting a trade agreement with Donald Trump," writes Brussels correspondent Jon Stone.


"The so-called "level playing field", included in the Brexit deal negotiated by the former prime minister, were a commitment to abide by similar rule to the EU in exchange for market access.'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-news-live-today-brexit-latest-eu-plan-proposal-a9142606.html

There we are. We are ****ed, as predicted.
Maybe when brexiters lose their annual holiday the penny will drop?

[Tom4784]

It's utterly hilarious that Brexiters are acting this is about freedom when all they are doing is lubing themselves up for Trump.

Brexiters have been told what to think, they've been told that the EU is bad and horrible and they simply can't think for themselves and now they're being led to believe that no deal is the best option when all it benefits are the elites that have led them to that decision like cattle to the ****ing slaughter house.

[Beso]

The remainers have thier heads so far up thier own arses they believe normally sane people can be led by slogans.


Brainwashed idiots...I pity the lot of them.

[Tom4784]

The remainers have thier heads so far up thier own arses they believe normally sane people can be led by slogans.


Brainwashed idiots...I pity the lot of them.

'I know you are but what am I?' Doesn't really work when everything that has happened so far has been stuff that's been predicted beforehand, that brexiters were told to ignore by Micheal 'We have had enough of experts' Gove.

Suggesting I'm brainwashed is just silly considering the reality of the situation we're in. I'm not the one with my head in the sand hoping it'll all be okay in the end. I'd rather know the reality of the situation we face because ignorance is never bliss.

[Beso]

'I know you are but what am I?' Doesn't really work when everything that has happened so far has been stuff that's been predicted beforehand, that brexiters were told to ignore by Micheal 'We have had enough of experts' Gove.

Suggesting I'm brainwashed is just silly considering the reality of the situation we're in. I'm not the one with my head in the sand hoping it'll all be okay in the end. I'd rather know the reality of the situation we face because ignorance is never bliss.

I'm not suggesting you are brainwashed dezzy, I'm suggesting that people outside the forum should be lumped into one category..like you do,.


I know the reality of the situation, and I firmly believe my reality isn't one of a brainwashed mass, like the labour party requires to survive in power in the UK.

[Cherie]

I think there'd be enough of a percentage of swing voters that would swing things back to Remain but, tbh, that would just lead to years and years of Brexiter tantrums and enough tears of red faced manchildren to salt the water supply.

Another referendum would just lead to another and another. Leaving with a deal is the only real option we have.

tbf this is what remainers are currently doing, so we really couldn't complain too much if that happened

I do agree leaving with a deal is now the only palatable option

[Kizzy]

There we are. We are ****ed, as predicted.
Maybe when brexiters lose their annual holiday the penny will drop?

This is why I think Boris will fail... I think the EU know what his plan is and why they are refusing to accept his deal regardless of the Irish issue.
Boris was terrified of the full details being revealed even to other EU states let alone us he knows the jig would be up and he'd be outed as selling us lock stock and NHS to the USA...:/
I still have faith he can be stopped.

[Beso]

It's utterly hilarious that Brexiters are acting this is about freedom when all they are doing is lubing themselves up for trump.



So you ain't as bothered about brexit as you make out?

[Beso]

This is why I think Boris will fail... I think the EU know what his plan is and why they are refusing to accept his deal regardless of the Irish issue..


Just a game to them huh..leaving us hanging...laughing away...


not in this house I'm afraid:fist:

[Twosugars]

The remainers have thier heads so far up thier own arses they believe normally sane people can be led by slogans.


Brainwashed idiots...I pity the lot of them.

I've seen the level of knowledge displayed by brexiters. So yes, it's all slogans and magical thinking.
That's why no serious expert supports brexit, only ideological nutters or the gullible.

[Beso]

I've seen the level of knowledge displayed by brexiters. So yes, it's all slogans and magical thinking.
That's why no serious expert supports brexit, only ideological nutters or the gullible.

Where have you seen this...are you a lip reader?..

[Kizzy]

Just a game to them huh..leaving us hanging...laughing away...


not in this house I'm afraid:fist:

Yes.. they've given boris every opportunity to come up with something that ensures protection for all and he can't. . So he is stuck, they don't want his rubbish deal and we don't want no deal so he's failed...nobody else.

[Beso]

Yes.. they've given boris every opportunity to come up with something that ensures protection for all and he can't. . So he is stuck, they don't want his rubbish deal and we don't want no deal so he's failed...nobody else.

Really?

Who is it that demands a border with Ireland?

It's not the UK, it's the EU protecting thier borders from outsiders...whilst letting outsiders in in all other corners..


Does that not sound stubborn to you?

[Twosugars]

Where have you seen this...are you a lip reader?..

Here for starters.:D
All these months of talking and have not heard a single convincing or even well constructed argument in favour of brexit.
All mouth, no trousers.
Either gullible or ideological

[Niamh.]

1179874904017125379?s=20

[Tom4784]

I'm not suggesting you are brainwashed dezzy, I'm suggesting that people outside the forum should be lumped into one category..like you do,.


I know the reality of the situation, and I firmly believe my reality isn't one of a brainwashed mass, like the labour party requires to survive in power in the UK.

Ah, now this is another example of what Brexiters like to do, focus on Corbyn because that will help them focus on something other than their regrets.

[Cherie]

Yes.. they've given boris every opportunity to come up with something that ensures protection for all and he can't. . So he is stuck, they don't want his rubbish deal and we don't want no deal so he's failed...nobody else.

Do you have a proposal as to how it can be resolved to protect all?

[Tom4784]

tbf this is what remainers are currently doing, so we really couldn't complain too much if that happened

I do agree leaving with a deal is now the only palatable option

Not really, Remainers who don't want Brexit to become a reality have been doing things the democratic way. It's very much a case of enlightened centrism if you think that the remainers compare to the redfaced gammon that spout **** like 'opposing brexit is treason! You're a traitor if you don't think as I do!' Typically most of what Alf tends to say tbh.

The only way this ends decently is with a deal but let's be real, you can't say that both sides are as bad as each other with a straight face considering everything that has happened.

[Cherie]

Not really, Remainers who don't want Brexit to become a reality have been doing things the democratic way. It's very much a case of enlightened centrism if you think that the remainers compare to the redfaced gammon that spout **** like 'opposing brexit is treason! You're a traitor if you don't think as I do!' Typically most of what Alf tends to say tbh.

The only way this ends decently is with a deal but let's be real, you can't say that both sides are as bad as each other with a straight face considering everything that has happened.

I actually can, it’s embarrassing to be a remainer at times, the name calling is beyond childish

[Tom4784]

Do you have a proposal as to how it can be resolved to protect all?

Kizzy isn't the Prime Minister, I always find that kind of questioning to be utterly pointles. None of us have the answer, we aren't in charge. We (are supposed) to elect governments to find the answers and we can have our views on those answers without someone screeching 'WELL IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, GO AND SOLVE A PROBLEM LIFE LONG POLITICIANS HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO SOLVE'. It's dismissive of any arguments and it only shuts down discussions, not encourages them.

[Tom4784]

I actually can, it’s embarrassing to be a remainer at times, the name calling is beyond childish

More enlightened centrism.

[Twosugars]

Do you have a proposal as to how it can be resolved to protect all?

Why should she? Did she break it? Why should remainers think up solutions for something they disagree on?

It's the leavers who broke it so let them fix it. After all it was all going to be so easy :fist:

[Kizzy]

Do you have a proposal as to how it can be resolved to protect all?

I criticise the government so I must know better?... no cherie strangely I don't have a proposal on how best to exit the EU.

[Kizzy]

Really?

Who is it that demands a border with Ireland?

It's not the UK, it's the EU protecting thier borders from outsiders...whilst letting outsiders in in all other corners..


Does that not sound stubborn to you?

And so they should...look at today's news, compromises on Standards to ensure trade deals with the US. The EU don't want our clorinated chicken!

[Beso]

Here for starters.:D
All these months of talking and have not heard a single convincing or even well constructed argument in favour of brexit.
All mouth, no trousers.
Either gullible or ideological

Maybe it's cause everyone's fed up arguing with you.:shrug:

[Beso]

I actually can, it’s embarrassing to be a remainer at times, the name calling is beyond childish

Shush now you "silly woman"

People like you should never be heard.:nono:


:joker:

[Beso]

And so they should...look at today's news, compromises on Standards to ensure trade deals with the US. The EU don't want our clorinated chicken!

Pathetic. .saying that as you sit surrounded by items crafted by the hands of poor children...

[Kizzy]

Maybe it's cause everyone's fed up arguing with you.:shrug:

It's the debate section the clue is in the name... how can you have a debate if nobody disagrees?

Just as childish as name calling is the 'well why don't you do better' non argument.

[Beso]

It's the debate section the clue is in the name... how can you have a debate if nobody disagrees?

Just as childish as name calling is the 'well why don't you do better' non argument.

Don't blame me...2shoogs has hung around for months and not heard a constructive argument to his opinions on brexit..Im just as bored as him..

[Twosugars]

Maybe it's cause everyone's fed up arguing with you.:shrug:

Feel free to ignore me, you will be doing both of us a favour :D

[jet]

Why should she? Did she break it? Why should remainers think up solutions for something they disagree on?

It's the leavers who broke it so let them fix it. After all it was all going to be so easy :fist:

But...but, I thought the point was that the leavers were all stupid and clueless, and you expect them to fix it! :laugh:
Surely all you remainers who lord it over the poor deluded ones can come up with something to save them. You all post about the future disasters with such certainty and knowledge, educating the silly little Brexiters. I'm sure even Boris would appreciate your pearls of wisdom about the doom and gloom ahead. :think: Have any of you contacted him yet?

[Twosugars]

But...but, I thought the point was that the leavers were all stupid and clueless, and you expect them to fix it! :laugh:
Surely all you remainers who lord it over the poor deluded ones can come up with something to save them. You all post about the future disasters with such certainty and knowledge, educating the silly little Brexiters. I'm sure even Boris would appreciate your pearls of wisdom about the doom and gloom ahead. :think: Have any of you contacted him yet?

The leavers own this ****show and will own it for eternity.
They've been warned but apparently it was project fear. Ok then.
No good asking for advice now. The people have spoken. :laugh:

[Tom4784]

But...but, I thought the point was that the leavers were all stupid and clueless, and you expect them to fix it! :laugh:
Surely all you remainers who lord it over the poor deluded ones can come up with something to save them. You all post about the future disasters with such certainty and knowledge, educating the silly little Brexiters. I'm sure even Boris would appreciate your pearls of wisdom about the doom and gloom ahead. :think: Have any of you contacted him yet?

Hardline Leavers tend to live in a fantasy land where everything will be okay because, in their minds, Britain is still a superpower and we still have an empire and the world will come running to us as soon as we leave to beg for our help because the planet will collapse without us. In truth we are a small country who is destined to become the US' bitch because those leavers are too arrogant to realise that they're leaving a union in which they could effect change to become reliant on the US when it's currently run by an orange mad man. Too arrogant to realise the UK's actual standing in the world and gullible enough to believe what a snake oil salesman is pitched to them about Brexit.

[Tom4784]

The leavers own this ****show and will own it for eternity.
They've been warned but apparently it was project fear. Ok then.
No good asking for advice now. The people have spoken. :laugh:

There's not much to do when we live in an age of stupidity, really.

[Kizzy]

Pathetic. .saying that as you sit surrounded by items crafted by the hands of poor children...

You want more trade with countries that exploit people don't you... you want what boris wants deregulation and a reversal of workers rights?
We are moving away from basic protections, yes the BRIC countries that use child labour will continue to do so. Not sure why that's my issue. I'm not the one who wants closer trade links with them :/

[Kizzy]

Don't blame me...2shoogs has hung around for months and not heard a constructive argument to his opinions on brexit..Im just as bored as him..

No I haven't heard a constructive response to his opinions on brexit either. The best we get here though it 'well you suggest how we do it then' .. so what do you expect?

[Cherie]

Kizzy isn't the Prime Minister, I always find that kind of questioning to be utterly pointles. None of us have the answer, we aren't in charge. We (are supposed) to elect governments to find the answers and we can have our views on those answers without someone screeching 'WELL IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, GO AND SOLVE A PROBLEM LIFE LONG POLITICIANS HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO SOLVE'. It's dismissive of any arguments and it only shuts down discussions, not encourages them.

I am sure kizzy doesn’t need you to respond to a question put directly to her

Btw the only one screeching here is you, I asked a polite question of kizzy and you responded by screeching at me, then you have the nerve to say I’m shutting down ‘debate’

[Cherie]

More enlightened centrism.

If only there were more of us we might not be on this merry go round of abuse

[arista]

1180148038649700358

His Coded Tweet

[Cherie]

I criticise the government so I must know better?... no cherie strangely I don't have a proposal on how best to exit the EU.

What a shame kizzy I thought you might have had the answer

[arista]

1180024488886452224

Last weeks TV broadcast Part Political Conservative
Very Clever to start with a Baby.

[Kizzy]

What a shame kizzy I thought you might have had the answer

Shutting down the debate with sarcasm now?

[Kizzy]

1180024488886452224

Last weeks TV broadcast Part Political Conservative
Very Clever to start with a Baby.

That baby looks like boris! Has he been spreading the love again?...

[Cherie]

Shutting down the debate with sarcasm now?

Not at all kizzy

[Withano]

But...but, I thought the point was that the leavers were all stupid and clueless, and you expect them to fix it! :laugh:
Surely all you remainers who lord it over the poor deluded ones can come up with something to save them. You all post about the future disasters with such certainty and knowledge, educating the silly little Brexiters. I'm sure even Boris would appreciate your pearls of wisdom about the doom and gloom ahead. :think: Have any of you contacted him yet?

Well yes, but they all vote against remaining in the European Union.

[lime]

I still can't get my head around the fact that those with an a opinion and vote have no idea about the EU or Ireland.

Cummings wants no deal..and that's clear by his latest proposal...It gives the DUP a recurent opporunity to decide the future of NI without being repersentavie of those in NI:fist:
Cummings knew this wouldn't fly

[Kizzy]

I still can't get my head around the fact that those with an a opinion and vote have no idea about the EU or Ireland.

Cummings wants no deal..and that's clear by his latest proposal...It gives the DUP a recurent opporunity to decide the future of NI without being repersentavie of those in NI:fist:
Cummings knew this wouldn't fly

Did you expect unionists to care about NI?

[Kizzy]

But...but, I thought the point was that the leavers were all stupid and clueless, and you expect them to fix it! :laugh:
Surely all you remainers who lord it over the poor deluded ones can come up with something to save them. You all post about the future disasters with such certainty and knowledge, educating the silly little Brexiters. I'm sure even Boris would appreciate your pearls of wisdom about the doom and gloom ahead. :think: Have any of you contacted him yet?
Here's a pearl, forward this for me.... don't feck us over for a deal with trump!!
There you are..You're welcome.

[Tom4784]

I am sure kizzy doesn’t need you to respond to a question put directly to her

Btw the only one screeching here is you, I asked a polite question of kizzy and you responded by screeching at me, then you have the nerve to say I’m shutting down ‘debate’

She doesn't need me to respond but I hate the tactics you resorted to. How am I shutting down debate by responding to you basically saying that Kizzy can't criticise a government unless she, a private citizen, can solve a political crisis that lifelong politicians can't? That's the definition of shutdown tactics.

[Tom4784]

If only there were more of us we might not be on this merry go round of abuse

Jobs and livelihoods are at stake, Cherie. People's lives will be ruined if Boris tries to force No Deal. Even the government's own Yellowhammer report said as much and we've only seen the best case scenario of that report, there are worse ones yet to be revealed. With that in mind, I can't be all like 'aw, poor Brexiters are upset' when it's likely my own livelihood at stake as well as the livelihoods of plenty of people throughout the UK. Brexiters can get the **** over being told some uncomfortable truths but lives will be ruined by a no deal Brexit.

Enlightened centrism gets us nowhere.

[Alf]

It ain't been a picnic inside the EU.

Jobs and livelihoods have always been at stake. People's lives have always been ruined.

Unless you have proof it's all been perfect?

[jet]

Here's a pearl, forward this for me.... don't feck us over for a deal with trump!!
There you are..You're welcome.

Project fear mark 2.

I certainly don't want a no deal, but neither do I buy into the hysteria of the dire consequences of Brexit. You'd think it was the end of the world. Perhaps you shouldn't rely on your chosen newspapers and biased media and read a wider variety of opinions instead of just those that reinforce your views of doom and gloom.

[Kizzy]

It ain't been a picnic inside the EU.

Jobs and livelihoods have always been at stake. People's lives have always been ruined.

Unless you have proof it's all been perfect?

What's been the biggest downside in relation to lives and jobs from being in the EU?

[lime]

Did you expect unionists to care about NI?

No

But listening to the British in the Uk I thought they would have a basic understanding of Ireland ..sadly not.

There is an ich in the air here in Irleand that I can't explain.

The false repersentation of us in the the British tabloids is viewed with shock Globally
:sad::sad:

[The Slim Reaper]

Project fear mark 2.

I certainly don't want a no deal, but neither do I buy into the hysteria of the dire consequences of Brexit. You'd think it was the end of the world. Perhaps you shouldn't rely on your chosen newspapers and biased media and read a wider variety of opinions instead of just those that reinforce your views of doom and gloom.

Everything included in project fear mk 1, is now being defended as what leavers wanted all along.

[The Slim Reaper]

One for Alf, I know he cited the abuse of our fishing industries as a reason for wanting to leave.

1180405515068870656

[Kizzy]

Project fear mark 2.

I certainly don't want a no deal, but neither do I buy into the hysteria of the dire consequences of Brexit. You'd think it was the end of the world. Perhaps you shouldn't rely on your chosen newspapers and biased media and read a wider variety of opinions instead of just those that reinforce your views of doom and gloom.

Should I read ones that perpetuate buzz words like 'project fear' like you?...

[jet]

Everything included in project fear mk 1, is now being defended as what leavers wanted all along.

You certainly paint everyone with broad brush strokes, don't you?

[lime]

Project fear mark 2.

I certainly don't want a no deal, but neither do I buy into the hysteria of the dire consequences of Brexit. You'd think it was the end of the world. Perhaps you shouldn't rely on your chosen newspapers and biased media and read a wider variety of opinions instead of just those that reinforce your views of doom and gloom.

Ah Jet ..you were nearly there....


You just missed out on "fake news" "libtards Tears".


Nobody ..I repeat nobody think's Brexit is the end of the world.

But to deny what it does to NI.

Maybe Arlene you should step away ..and take a walk.

[Kizzy]

No

But listening to the British in the Uk I thought they would have a basic understanding of Ireland ..sadly not.

There is an ich in the air here in Irleand that I can't explain.

The false repersentation of us in the the British tabloids is viewed with shock Globally
:sad::sad:
The English conservative government have never liked you...they don't want anyone to understand or sympathise with you. Why are you surprised they'll do down their own granny for the right wing demigods.

[The Slim Reaper]

You certainly paint everyone with broad brush strokes, don't you?

Not really, a no-deal was project fear, but now it's "we must leave on 31st regardless" Farage pushed a norway model as an example.

There is no glorious brexit that was promised. Where are all these countries begging us for deals because WWII? You didn't even try to address it, you made it about me. :smug:

[jet]

Should I read ones that perpetuate buzz words like 'project fear' like you?...

I read those buzz words here only, used as a stick to beat those 'clueless' leavers with.

[Kizzy]

I read those buzz words here only, used as a stick to beat those 'clueless' leavers with.

I hate to suggest you might be perpetuating falsehoods but the term project fear is widely used .. not only on here, I could find you some direct quotes from mps if you'd like?

[Kizzy]

You certainly paint everyone with broad brush strokes, don't you?

Project fear is in itself a broad brush stroke...... :hehe:

[Twosugars]

I read those buzz words here only, used as a stick to beat those 'clueless' leavers with.
Here only? Where were you during the referendum campaign? It was promised everything would be easy. All concerns expressed by remainers have been branded as project fear.
Ok then. If they know better let them do it.
But they cant bc reality gets in the way. And so they get angry and lash out at remainers. Again.
Too late.

Dont blame remainers bc your dream was just that, only a dream. Take responsibility for your actions.

[jet]

Not really, a no-deal was project fear, but now it's "we must leave on 31st regardless" Farage pushed a norway model as an example.

There is no glorious brexit that was promised. Where are all these countries begging us for deals because WWII? You didn't even try to address it, you made it about me. :smug:

For me personally there is no point in addressing anything in any depth here regarding Brexit as everyone's opinions are entrenched and the same negative and depressing views are repeated ad nauseum. The few leavers that are still here have the hearts of lions to put up with being vilified and sneered at,fair play to them! :facepalm:

[jet]

I hate to suggest you might be perpetuating falsehoods but the term project fear is widely used .. not only on here, I could find you some direct quotes from mps if you'd like?

Well, I am of the impression I just heard it here, maybe because its mentioned so often. You needn't look for quotes, I'll take your word on it.

[arista]

I still can't get my head around the fact that those with an a opinion and vote have no idea about the EU or Ireland.

Cummings wants no deal..and that's clear by his latest proposal...It gives the DUP a recurent opporunity to decide the future of NI without being repersentavie of those in NI:fist:
Cummings knew this wouldn't fly


The DUP were fast to go on TV News and Radio
to back it.
So many say let Ireland Change their borders

[lime]

For me personally there is no point in addressing anything in any depth here regarding Brexit as everyone's opinions are entrenched and the same negative and depressing views are repeated ad nauseum. The few leavers that are still here have the hearts of lions to put up with being vilified and sneered at,fair play to them! :facepalm:

I think msot likely you have me on ignore for simply pointing out there was loved ones lost by many..not just you.

"heart of lions"?....but cowardce away from a debate?


"Villified" "sneered".

have you heard yourself.

[jet]

Here only? Where were you during the referendum campaign? It was promised everything would be easy. All concerns expressed by remainers have been branded as project fear.
Ok then. If they know better let them do it.
But they cant bc reality gets in the way. And so they get angry and lash out at remainers. Again.
Too late.

Dont blame remainers bc your dream was just that, only a dream. Take responsibility for your actions.

I'm neutral actually. I can see advandages and disadvantages to remaining or leaving. Reading here has put me a bit more on the leave side HERE because of the way they are treated.

[Kazanne]

For me personally there is no point in addressing anything in any depth here regarding Brexit as everyone's opinions are entrenched and the same negative and depressing views are repeated ad nauseum. The few leavers that are still here have the hearts of lions to put up with being vilified and sneered at,fair play to them! :facepalm:

One reason I cant be arsed Jet,its pointless but I wont be changing my mind on the contrary :wavey: people cant debate in a polite manner.

[jet]

The English conservative government have never liked you...they don't want anyone to understand or sympathise with you. Why are you surprised they'll do down their own granny for the right wing demigods.

Dear Lord...:rolleyes:

[The Slim Reaper]

For me personally there is no point in addressing anything in any depth here regarding Brexit as everyone's opinions are entrenched and the same negative and depressing views are repeated ad nauseum. The few leavers that are still here have the hearts of lions to put up with being vilified and sneered at,fair play to them! :facepalm:

Brexiteers - like Christians in the colosseum of TIBB. You can't simultaneously represent the will of the British people and wilt under the pressure of a few counterpoints.

I've actually made a lot of in depth appeals to the reason of brexit supporters, but the problem here is that it's not a discussion that ever takes place in good faith. I see lots of people posting evidence, statistics, and facts on the anti-brexit side, and I see meaningless phrases like will of the people, and very little information to back up the pro-brexit argument.

When people are happy to feast on slogans rather than facts, then it's no wonder you make your posts about posters rather than issues.

[Kizzy]

The DUP were fast to go on TV News and Radio
to back it.
So many say let Ireland Change their borders

Yeah my view is that will go down like a sack of **** covered potatoes.

[jet]

I think msot likely you have me on ignore for simply pointing out there was loved ones lost by many..not just you.

"heart of lions"?....but cowardce away from a debate?


"Villified" "sneered".

have you heard yourself.

I don't have you on ignore....you are just another voice of many, I don't recall any debate I may have had with you specifically. :shrug:

[Kizzy]

I don't have you on ignore....you are just another voice of many, I don't recall any debate I may have had with you specifically. :shrug:

Yes that's the way to conduct a debate...put anyone with whom you disagree on ignore, genius!

[The Slim Reaper]

the dup were fast to go on tv news and radio
to back it.
So many say let ireland change their borders

1179887234583072768

[jet]

Yes that's the way to conduct a debate...put anyone with whom you disagree on ignore, genius!

Read what I said again. I have never put anyone on ignore. :fist:

[jet]

Brexiteers - like Christians in the colosseum of TIBB. You can't simultaneously represent the will of the British people and wilt under the pressure of a few counterpoints.

I've actually made a lot of in depth appeals to the reason of brexit supporters, but the problem here is that it's not a discussion that ever takes place in good faith. I see lots of people posting evidence, statistics, and facts on the anti-brexit side, and I see meaningless phrases like will of the people, and very little information to back up the pro-brexit argument.

When people are happy to feast on slogans rather than facts, then it's no wonder you make your posts about posters rather than issues.

Not everyone is an in - depth discussion sort of person. I certainly can be - but I wouldn't even try here if I was definately pro - leave. It's too one - sided. I wouldn't fancy being bombarded with posts refuting my views and making me feel inferior, and feeling I have to spend hours debating all of them to make them understand my points, when really, nobody is going to change their minds anyway. I have better things to do with my time. :shrug:

[jet]

One reason I cant be arsed Jet,its pointless but I wont be changing my mind on the contrary :wavey: people cant debate in a polite manner.

Wise words Kaz! :wavey:

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGDS-vkXUAUfY8S?format=jpg&name=small

[lime]

I don't have you on ignore....you are just another voice of many, I don't recall any debate I may have had with you specifically. :shrug:

Well let's not call it a debate ...more a discussion.?
You spoke about your loss during the war..but paid no heed to those who lost loved ones by actions who are loyal to the crown.


Yes I am a voice..I'm A Boer..you have a very simular attitude to UVF who don't forget were armed by AWB

[lime]

The DUP were fast to go on TV News and Radio
to back it.
So many say let Ireland Change their borders

The first thing to do is stop calling it an Irish border.


It is a British border

[Alf]

I've got a compromise.

We stay in the EU, but we're in charge and the EU parliament moves to the UK, and the people vote the top people into office. And the other countries send us billions of their money so we can dish it out.

?

[Niamh.]

The first thing to do is stop calling it an Irish border.





It is a British borderI know yeah, sort out "their" border indeed

[Nicky91]

I've got a compromise.

We stay in the EU, but we're in charge and the EU parliament moves to the UK, and the people vote the top people into office. And the other countries send us billions of their money so we can dish it out.

?

other words we give billions to britain, so we can fill the british elite their pockets even more

dumbest idea of ideas i've heard so far :laugh2:

[Alf]

other words we give billions to britain, so we can fill the british elite their pockets even more

dumbest idea of ideas i've heard so far :laugh2:I know, who'd be dumb enough to fall for that?

[Twosugars]

For me personally there is no point in addressing anything in any depth here regarding Brexit as everyone's opinions are entrenched and the same negative and depressing views are repeated ad nauseum. The few leavers that are still here have the hearts of lions to put up with being vilified and sneered at,fair play to them! :facepalm:

Well excuse us for caring and protesting when the country is about to be wrecked!
We should just roll over right? And you claim to care about the irish peace process? Dont make me laugh! The best deal for the UK and peace in ireland is no brexit at all

[Tom4784]

It ain't been a picnic inside the EU.

Jobs and livelihoods have always been at stake. People's lives have always been ruined.

Unless you have proof it's all been perfect?

It's already been said by others that you won't accept proof, All the analysts in the world could tell you the same thing and you'll assume they've all been paid off to tell you what you don't want to hear. There's always an excuse for you not to pay attention to something that derails your argument.

No deal is a disaster and one that will not benefit anyone who isn't an elite that's after a tax break. There's a reason why the pound keeps falling every time we take a step towards no deal, there's a reason why every analyst worth their salt is predicting the worst and why even Boris' own government have risk assessments painting a grim picture of what No Deal will entail.

There's very little point in trying to tell you anything because you've proven time and time again that you'll plug your ears to it.

[Alf]

Why does the single market (which is what we signed up for) need a flag, an anthem and an army?

[Twosugars]

I'm neutral actually. I can see advandages and disadvantages to remaining or leaving. Reading here has put me a bit more on the leave side HERE because of the way they are treated.

Bc they have no good argument for leaving, that's why!

Their arguments dont stack up or are based on lies they were told.

Just by accident we found out for example that Kazanne, one of the leavers, thought uk owned all of ireland. People cant tell the difference between EU, single market and customs union.

[Kizzy]

Dear Lord...:rolleyes:

What part of that do you disagree with?

[Tom4784]

Project fear mark 2.

I certainly don't want a no deal, but neither do I buy into the hysteria of the dire consequences of Brexit. You'd think it was the end of the world. Perhaps you shouldn't rely on your chosen newspapers and biased media and read a wider variety of opinions instead of just those that reinforce your views of doom and gloom.

How can you claim not to want no deal when you are painting all the analysts whose reputations rely on being correct to be apart of some 'biased media'?

When someone whose career revolves around making accurate predictions about the state of the economy warns against a disaster and when that view is shared among most economic experts from around the world, you listen to what they have to say. They know more than any of us and it's nothing but arrogance to brush their warnings aside because it's not something you want to hear. Are the government in on it too? Is the Yellowhammer report just part of 'Project Fear' too?

Everything that's come to pass so far has been predicted since 2016. Our economy is lurching every time No Deal becomes more of a possibility every expert is pretty much warning against the same thing. I like to live in the real world, I like to know what's coming so I can try to prepare for it, this isn't the work of biased media, all the 'doom and gloom' predictions will come to pass and no amount of hoping the grass is greener on the other side will change that.

The only way we'll make it through Brexit without triggering another recessions or worse, is by going with a deal and even that has it's own pitfalls considering the border situation.

[Cherie]

She doesn't need me to respond but I hate the tactics you resorted to. How am I shutting down debate by responding to you basically saying that Kizzy can't criticise a government unless she, a private citizen, can solve a political crisis that lifelong politicians can't? That's the definition of shutdown tactics.

Hardly, I was interested to know if she might have a solution, it was genuine question, encouraging response rather than denying it

[Twosugars]

Hardly, I was interested to know if she might have a solution, it was genuine question, encouraging response rather than denying it

I have a solution

No brexit bc the best deal is staying in the EU

[arista]

I have a solution

No Brexit because the best deal is staying in the EU


No the LibDem idea
is Dead.

[Cherie]

Jobs and livelihoods are at stake, Cherie. People's lives will be ruined if Boris tries to force No Deal. Even the government's own Yellowhammer report said as much and we've only seen the best case scenario of that report, there are worse ones yet to be revealed. With that in mind, I can't be all like 'aw, poor Brexiters are upset' when it's likely my own livelihood at stake as well as the livelihoods of plenty of people throughout the UK. Brexiters can get the **** over being told some uncomfortable truths but lives will be ruined by a no deal Brexit.

Enlightened centrism gets us nowhere.


Gosh, nobody knew the above until you told us, it's not like its been rammed down our throats ad infinitum 24 hours a day

the point I am making is if you want to someone to come round to your way of thinking, abusing them is not going to make them in any way amenable,

gammon, remoaner, bigot, racist, undemocratic, stupid, deluded ect ect what's the point in trotting out these insults, and then expecting the other side to nod along with what you are saying, the problem we have here is people take a childish delight in slinging out as many insults as they can to describe the people on the opposing side, then they expect that side to actually listen to what they are saying....incredible! and then have the nerve to call people stupid

[lime]

I know yeah, sort out "their" border indeed

How is it that those born and raised in UK and have a vote bout the Irish..but have no comprehension about the Irish ?

[Cherie]

I have a solution

No brexit bc the best deal is staying in the EU

That is of course a solution, but will require MPs to actually vote for a 2nd referendum, they have already voted against it ...and then for the people to actually vote to stay



I was in favour of a second referendum for ages, not any more,

given the insults traded on both sides, everyone's backs are up, everyone wants their side to 'win'

the only way out of this now is to leave with a deal of some description

[Twosugars]

No the LibDem idea
is Dead.

Then come up with something better

Your side broke it so now fix it

Asking remainers for a solution is like asking the victim of a car accident to fix the car that caused it.

[Alf]

How is it that those born and raised in UK and have a vote bout the Irish..but have no comprehension about the Irish ?Because we've been learning about genders instead.

[Twosugars]

Gosh, nobody knew the above until you told us, it's not like its been rammed down our throats ad infinitum 24 hours a day

the point I am making is if you want to someone to come round to your way of thinking, abusing them is not going to make them in any way amenable,

gammon, remoaner, bigot, racist, undemocratic, stupid, deluded ect ect what's the point in trotting out these insults, and then expecting the other side to nod along with what you are saying, the problem we have here is people take a childish delight in slinging out as many insults as they can to describe the people on the opposing side, then they expect that side to actually listen to what they are saying....incredible! and then have the nerve to call people stupid

Dont you get it? Theres no argument to be had bc leavers are not interested. Their opinions are not based on facts but on blind faith.

[lime]

That is of course a solution, but will require MPs to actually vote for a 2nd referendum, they have already voted against it ...and then for the people to actually vote to stay



I was in favour of a second referendum for ages, not any more,

given the insults traded on both sides, everyone's backs are up, everyone wants their side to 'win'

the only way out of this now is to leave with a deal of some description
Yikes Cherie

It must not be a deal of some description.It must be an acceptable deal for all,

What BJ is offering is good for DUP...not for Ireland:bawling::bawling::bawling:

[Tom4784]

Gosh, nobody knew the above until you told us, it's not like its been rammed down our throats ad infinitum 24 hours a day

the point I am making is if you want to someone to come round to your way of thinking, abusing them is not going to make them in any way amenable,

gammon, remoaner, bigot, racist, undemocratic, stupid, deluded ect ect what's the point in trotting out these insults, and then expecting the other side to nod along with what you are saying, the problem we have here is people take a childish delight in slinging out as many insults as they can to describe the people on the opposing side, then they expect that side to actually listen to what they are saying....incredible! and then have the nerve to call people stupid

I don't care if someone that's wilfully ignorant comes around to my way of thinking. Reality is reality, Brexiters can either face up to it or bury their head in the sand like cowards. I am beyond patience with people who are wilfully ignorant. I'm not here to change minds, I'm telling people to get with reality or continue to be deep dicked by the elite that are using their gullibility to further their own ends.

It doesn't matter if people listen or not, reality is reality and clutching your pearls in faux outrage won't change that. Boo ****ing hoo if someone is upset because I think Brexiters are easily led, their actions and their continued ignorance is leading to bad times for us all. **** their feelings when they are leading us all off a cliff for a shallow sense of victory.

[Cherie]

Yikes Cherie

It must not be a deal of some description.It must be an acceptable deal for all,

What BJ is offering is good for DUP...not for Ireland:bawling::bawling::bawling:


Lime the deal will of course have to satisfy all otherwise it will not be passed so that goes without saying ?:shrug: no yikes about it

[Cherie]

I don't care if someone that's wilfully ignorant comes around to my way of thinking. Reality is reality, Brexiters can either face up to it or bury their head in the sand like cowards. I am beyond patience with people who are wilfully ignorant. I'm not here to change minds, I'm telling people to get with reality or continue to be deep dicked by the elite that are using their gullibility to further their own ends.

It doesn't matter if people listen or not, reality is reality and clutching your pearls in faux outrage won't change that. Boo ****ing hoo if someone is upset because I think Brexiters are easily led, their actions and their continued ignorance is leading to bad times for us all. **** their feelings when they are leading us all off a cliff for a shallow sense of victory.

you use that pearls analogy so often you must have a drawerful of them by now, try a different analogy maybe, it might have more impact. No one is outraged, just sick and tired of the abuse being hurled on both sides, you revel in in obviously

Given Parliament are striving to take no deal off the table, only a handful want to drive us off a cliff

[Kazanne]

Bc they have no good argument for leaving, that's why!

Their arguments dont stack up or are based on lies they were told.

Just by accident we found out for example that Kazanne, one of the leavers, thought uk owned all of ireland. People cant tell the difference between EU, single market and customs union.

I never thought that at all , dont twist and lie !!!

[Twosugars]

I never thought that at all , dont twist and lie !!!

You did. You didnt know Ireland was an independent country. Own your mistakes

[The Slim Reaper]

One for Alf, I know he cited the abuse of our fishing industries as a reason for wanting to leave.

1180405515068870656

Because we've been learning about genders instead.

In case you missed it from earlier in the thread.

[Kazanne]

You did. You didnt know Ireland was an independent country. Own your mistakes

I never ever thought the UK owned Ireland, its pointless explaining to you my thoughts on it,as you know it all in your own head.

[AnnieK]

I think the name calling on here is as indicative as real life. The split between leave / remain has left a huge chasm. The Politicians can't keep it civil so the public have followed suit. Both sides think they are right, people feel their lives and livelihoods are at risk, it was bound to get emotive. I know who people have fallen out in real life over this so was bound to spill over into online life. My facebook and twitter is full if it too....

[Alf]

Just laugh at him Kaz, he'll boil your blood otherwise.

[The Slim Reaper]

I think the name calling on here is as indicative as real life. The split between leave / remain has left a huge chasm. The Politicians can't keep it civil so the public have followed suit. Both sides think they are right, people feel their lives and livelihoods are at risk, it was bound to get emotive. I know who people have fallen out in real life over this so was bound to spill over into online life. My facebook and twitter is full if it too....

Twat

[AnnieK]

Twat

I know I am :smug:

[Kazanne]

Just laugh at him Kaz, he'll boil your blood otherwise.

:laugh: It would take more than him Alf,I'm made of strong stuff:hehe:

[Kazanne]

I think the name calling on here is as indicative as real life. The split between leave / remain has left a huge chasm. The Politicians can't keep it civil so the public have followed suit. Both sides think they are right, people feel their lives and livelihoods are at risk, it was bound to get emotive. I know who people have fallen out in real life over this so was bound to spill over into online life. My facebook and twitter is full if it too....

The thing is Annie people could respond in a friendly way but they don't,I don't think its worth falling out over especially in real life, we all have our own opinions just some of us get shouted down everytime we post one so it's kind of pointless, and woe betide we make a mistake ! it would just be nice to get some friendly banter like Alfs and aristas ,not the veiled insults all the time.Happy to say I haven't fell out with anyone about it in real life..yet:laugh:

[jet]

Well let's not call it a debate ...more a discussion.?
You spoke about your loss during the war..but paid no heed to those who lost loved ones by actions who are loyal to the crown.


Yes I am a voice..I'm A Boer..you have a very simular attitude to UVF who don't forget were armed by AWB

How dare you align my attitudes in any way to the UVF! Any time I have been discussing the Troubles on here it is mainly in reference to Corbyn's involvement to the IRA.
If he had been on the side of the UVF I would have been referring to those murderous pigs instead, but he wasn't.
I have many times past and present denounced ALL terrorism.

[AnnieK]

The thing is Annie people could respond in a friendly way but they don't,I don't think its worth falling out over especially in real life, we all have our own opinions just some of us get shouted down everytime we post one so it's kind of pointless, and woe betide we make a mistake ! it would just be nice to get some friendly banter like Alfs and aristas ,not the veiled insults all the time.Happy to say I haven't fell out with anyone about it in real life..yet:laugh:

It would be nice Kaz, I completely agree but it just won't happen. I have had some heated discussions with people but they have always ended with a laugh BUT when people are frustrated that they don't think they are being heard, it will get heated and if we do crash out with no deal, I fear it will lead to an awful lot more. If the Yellowhammer warnings start to happen, there will be an awful lot of very angry people,people who lose their jobs, homes etc. I am genuinely frightened of what could happen

[lime]

Lime the deal will of course have to satisfy all otherwise it will not be passed so that goes without saying ?:shrug: no yikes about it

Cherie I do wish you were consisted.

a deal of some sorts is what you said??


Right now Cummings deal is a no go.Of course you know this as a woman from the Rebel county..right??

[lime]

Because we've been learning about genders instead.

So your still in school.My apolgagies..I thought you were an adult.Sorry

out of interest ..what is the class you sit in to learn genders?

[Twosugars]

I never ever thought the UK owned Ireland, its pointless explaining to you my thoughts on it,as you know it all in your own head.


Really? Why are you lying? It was only a few pages back, in this very thread
Let's refresh your memory



Sorry lime I would have answered you earlier, as far as I know Ireland is part of the UK, not the EU but now you point it out, I see what you mean,but hopefully Ireland,England,Wales and Scotland can stay United, no way was I wanting to push Ireland out, I am half Irish myself and have lots of relatives there, so imo you are part of us.:wavey:

I think Lime is in Republic of Ireland, not Northern Kaz, so they are not part of the UK and so a member of the EU in their own right.

Oh right Annie,thanks for telling me, I didn't realize.:wavey: I learn something new everyday Annie x

[Tom4784]

you use that pearls analogy so often you must have a drawerful of them by now, try a different analogy maybe, it might have more impact. No one is outraged, just sick and tired of the abuse being hurled on both sides, you revel in in obviously

Given Parliament are striving to take no deal off the table, only a handful want to drive us off a cliff

I don't care if you think my terminology lacks impact, if it fits, I use it.

I don't revel in anything, I just don't care to waste my time being touchy feely with people who, like Twosugars said, place blind faith above knowledge.

Reality is a harsh bitch and it's gonna come down on the Brexiters whether they've buried their heads in the sand or not. Better to face it head on knowing everything there is to know then to cover their eyes and hope for the best. The train that is the Brexit mess has left the station, we can't take it off the tracks without constantly repeating the process of leaving and remaining. There's no point in convincing people who choose ignorance over reality. The best we can hope for is that, when this train crashes, it doesn't burst into flames so we can fix it. The crash has to happen but knowing a crash is coming let's us be better prepared for it.

[jet]

How can you claim not to want no deal when you are painting all the analysts whose reputations rely on being correct to be apart of some 'biased media'?

When someone whose career revolves around making accurate predictions about the state of the economy warns against a disaster and when that view is shared among most economic experts from around the world, you listen to what they have to say. They know more than any of us and it's nothing but arrogance to brush their warnings aside because it's not something you want to hear. Are the government in on it too? Is the Yellowhammer report just part of 'Project Fear' too?

Everything that's come to pass so far has been predicted since 2016. Our economy is lurching every time No Deal becomes more of a possibility every expert is pretty much warning against the same thing. I like to live in the real world, I like to know what's coming so I can try to prepare for it, this isn't the work of biased media, all the 'doom and gloom' predictions will come to pass and no amount of hoping the grass is greener on the other side will change that.

The only way we'll make it through Brexit without triggering another recessions or worse, is by going with a deal and even that has it's own pitfalls considering the border situation.

I have read the analysts predictions for remaining, and the analysts case for leaving. They all claim to be experts, yet both sides sound convincing and plausible. Who is right and who is wrong? I think it all might fall in the middle.

I make a point of reading a wide variety of newspapers (not the out and out tabloids though!) and watching a wide variety of programmes. If you just read papers that align with your views you won't get any balance, and it appears you just read the doom merchants take on it all.
That's why I am not strongly on one side or the other, more like 'wait and see'.
Whatever will happen will happen and all the hand wringing in the world won't change a thing.

[Kazanne]

Really? Why are you lying? It was only a few pages back, in this very thread
Let's refresh your memory

That does not mean I thought Ireland was owned by the UK ,I said it was part of the UK as I view Scotland and Wales to be PART of the UK not OWNED by the UK, that was all I meant , but carry on trying to put people down,you're very good at it, must be annoying that some of us don't give a **** what you think though,. :laugh:

[Tom4784]

I have read the analysts predictions for remaining, and the analysts predictions for leaving. They all claim to be experts, yet both sides sound convincing and plausible. Who is right and who is wrong? I think it all might fall in the middle.

I make a point of reading a wide variety of newspapers (not the out and out tabloids though!) and watching a wide variety of programmes. If you just read papers that align with your views you won't get any balance, and it appears you just read the doom merchants take on it all.
That's why I am not strongly on one side or the other, more like 'wait and see'.
Whatever will happen will happen and all the hand wringing in the world won't change a thing.

You assume that I think the way I do because I have a confirmation bias which is just not realistic. I don't have any kind of allegiance to one news source or the other. The reason why I hold analytical view points in high esteem is because there's so many all over the world that are saying the same thing and when that view is reinforced by the Yellowhammer report and so far, they have no been wrong once.

I'm certainly not wringing my hands, my viewpoint has always been the same, you can't run from reality and hoping for the best without preparing for the worst is pointless.

[Twosugars]

That does not mean I thought Ireland was owned by the UK ,I said it was part of the UK as I view Scotland and Wales to be PART of the UK not OWNED by the UK, that was all I meant , but carry on trying to put people down,you're very good at it, must be annoying that some of us don't give a **** what you think though,. :laugh:

When a territory is part of a country it is owned by that country.

I dont care what you think about me, dear. I just care about facts in a discussion I'm a part of. If you carry on spreading falsehoods I will carry on correcting you. Nothing personal :)

[Kazanne]

When a territory is part of a country it is owned by that country.

I dont care what you think about me, dear. I just care about facts in a discussion I'm a part of. If you carry on spreading falsehoods I will carry on correcting you. Nothing personal :)

Don't call me dear, I am not :fist:

[Alf]

So your still in school.My apolgagies..I thought you were an adult.Sorry

out of interest ..what is the class you sit in to learn genders?Where is your argument going here?

You wondered why the people of the UK didn't know about Ireland, and I give you a suggestion as to why it might be.

[joeysteele]

When a territory is part of a country it is owned by that country.

I dont care what you think about me, dear. I just care about facts in a discussion I'm a part of. If you carry on spreading falsehoods I will carry on correcting you. Nothing personal :)


It is.
Scotland Wales and N Ireland have assemblies but are still governed and controlled more fully by the UK and its government.

The Republic of Ireland, obviously, as it should be clear to all on these shores, is NOT part of the UK.
Therefore neither owned or governed by the UK and the UK government.

I'm pretty sure the great Republic of Ireland is really glad of that fact too.

[lime]

How dare you align my attitudes in any way to the UVF! Any time I have been discussing the Troubles on here it is mainly in reference to Corbyn's involvement to the IRA.
If he had been on the side of the UVF I would have been referring to those murderous pigs instead, but he wasn't.
I have many times past and present denounced ALL terrorism.

You see Jet ...I have being living in Ireland since 1999...now a proud Irish citizen.

no matter what side you come from I'm sure we can agree..Corbyn is irrelevant.

He is a pathetic man who played no part in the peace process.


I stand by my word ...you consitley critizice the Irish ..never the British for their part,,

So yeah I guess I do dare...show me a post where you called out a massacre carried by the British here in Ireland

[jet]

Well excuse us for caring and protesting when the country is about to be wrecked!
We should just roll over right? And you claim to care about the irish peace process? Dont make me laugh! The best deal for the UK and peace in ireland is no brexit at all

Did you miss the word 'personally' in my post. Good debating skills require good comprehension abilities. Being continually misrepresented is another reason I don't personally want to get into discussions about Brexit.
Living in N.Ireland,I care deeply about the peace process, unlike some, who pretend to care to bolster their arguments.

[lime]

Where is your argument going here?

You wondered why the people of the UK didn't know about Ireland, and I give you a suggestion as to why it might be.

Not an argument.I would never do that with a child.


You didn't give me a suggestion..you told me you were learning about genders in school.

We will end this now as I don't feel comfortable talking to a child of school going age

[Alf]

Not an argument.I would never do that with a child.


You didn't give me a suggestion..you told me you were learning about genders in school.

We will end this now as I don't feel comfortable talking to a child of school going ageAre you taking the Mick?

[jet]

Gosh, nobody knew the above until you told us, it's not like its been rammed down our throats ad infinitum 24 hours a day

the point I am making is if you want to someone to come round to your way of thinking, abusing them is not going to make them in any way amenable,

gammon, remoaner, bigot, racist, undemocratic, stupid, deluded ect ect what's the point in trotting out these insults, and then expecting the other side to nod along with what you are saying, the problem we have here is people take a childish delight in slinging out as many insults as they can to describe the people on the opposing side, then they expect that side to actually listen to what they are saying....incredible! and then have the nerve to call people stupid

:clap1:

[user104658]

I have read the analysts predictions for remaining, and the analysts case for leaving. They all claim to be experts, yet both sides sound convincing and plausible. Who is right and who is wrong? I think it all might fall in the middle.

If you have genuinely read any analysts predicting good things about a no-deal Brexit then by all means PLEASE post them here, because it's starting to become a very real - and very scary - prospect and we could all do with some reassurance.

If you haven't actually read any then stop giving people false hope :nono:.

[jet]

If you have genuinely read any analysts predicting good things about a no-deal Brexit then by all means PLEASE post them here, because it's starting to become a very real - and very scary - prospect and we could all do with some reassurance.

If you haven't actually read any then stop giving people false hope :nono:.

Stop playing the I'm so scared innocent TS. Several papers, eg the Times, give widespread balanced views as do many online articles. I'm sure you don't need me to do your research for you, you are one of the most informed people on here on a wide range of subjects. (no sarcasm invovled).

[user104658]

Stop playing the I'm so scared innocent TS. Several papers, eg the Times, give widespread balanced views as do many online articles. I'm sure you don't need me to do your research for you, you are one of the most informed people on here on a wide range of subjects. (no sarcasm invovled).

I do like to think I am Jet and I'm not being sarcastic or joking; I haven't seen any economic analysis of no-deal Brexit that shows it being anything but damaging. The range is from "Definite recession but manageable" to "huge economic shock with global knock-on effect". I genuinely haven't seen any that suggest a positive economic effect, or even anything approaching "negligible". I'm not talking about newspaper articles, those are spinning off in all directions, you said economic analysis so that's what I asked about. Fairly conservative estimates show that over time the likely impact on the UK could easily be 8 - 10% of GDP which is frankly huge.

I have done my research. I can't find any economic report (NOT article) that in any way shows anything promising. I'm not having a go, or keyboard-battling, the situation is immensely stressful and I'm worried about my own and my family's futures. So like I said if you really have seen economic analysis that is in any way reassuring, I'd want to see it, but yes I am very skeptical that it exists. The most level-headed reports from economists who have nothing to do with the UK or EU and no vested political interests are saying recession is inevitable. The only debate is over "how bad".

[jet]

You see Jet ...I have being living in Ireland since 1999...now a proud Irish citizen.

no matter what side you come from I'm sure we can agree..Corbyn is irrelevant.

He is a pathetic man who played no part in the peace process.


I stand by my word ...you consitley critizice the Irish ..never the British for their part,,

So yeah I guess I do dare...show me a post where you called out a massacre carried by the British here in Ireland

As the leader of the opposition Corbyn is unfortunately not irrelevant (btw if he cares about this country and no deal he should have stepped down.)

As for me constantly criticising the Irish, you are talking s...... :crazy:
Maybe you are mixing it up with me criticising the IRA. :suspect:
It's up to you to prove I have in all these mythical posts. Good luck on your search.

[The Slim Reaper]

1180485540543713280

[jet]

I do like to think I am Jet and I'm not being sarcastic or joking; I haven't seen any economic analysis of no-deal Brexit that shows it being anything but damaging. The range is from "Definite recession but manageable" to "huge economic shock with global knock-on effect". I genuinely haven't seen any that suggest a positive economic effect, or even anything approaching "negligible". I'm not talking about newspaper articles, those are spinning off in all directions, you said economic analysis so that's what I asked about. Fairly conservative estimates show that over time the likely impact on the UK could easily be 8 - 10% of GDP which is frankly huge.

I have done my research. I can't find any economic report (NOT article) that in any way shows anything promising. I'm not having a go, or keyboard-battling, the situation is immensely stressful and I'm worried about my own and my family's futures. So like I said if you really have seen economic analysis that is in any way reassuring, I'd want to see it, but yes I am very skeptical that it exists. The most level-headed reports from economists who have nothing to do with the UK or EU and no vested political interests are saying recession is inevitable. The only debate is over "how bad".

There are a lot of articles by experts saying how dire things are going to be, that we face years of hardship and might never recover, our place in the world is damaged forever etc etc. Then other experts predict that there will be only very short term teething problems and in the long run we will prosper.

This is one I read recently:
https://www.finance-monthly.com/2017/03/your-thoughts-the-long-term-impact-of-brexit/

Your thoughts on it?

[The Slim Reaper]

1180493487566983169

The reignition of the Scottish independence movement.

[Beso]

Spurs got beat again.

[user104658]

There are a lot of articles by experts saying how dire things are going to be, that we face years of hardship and might never recover, our place in the world is damaged forever etc etc. Then other experts predict that there will be only very short term teething problems and in the long run we will prosper.

This is one I read recently:
https://www.finance-monthly.com/2017/03/your-thoughts-the-long-term-impact-of-brexit/

Your thoughts on it?

I mean... for a start, the article is from 2017 and the entire premise on it is based on trying to predict "what the terms are of the deal we secure with the EU". Two years ago a deal was very much still expected and now it's looking impossible so that immediately makes the article less relevant to the current situation. Secondly, the focus is on the long-term prospects which really apply more to business and the wealthy who can afford to "ride the waves". The short-term impact is looking to be a disaster for the middle and working classes, i.e., "normal people with normal lives".

The current situation is unprecedented. I wasn't particularly worried in 2017. I thought Brexit was a mistake but fully expected there to be a trade deal in place by the point of exit - just one that would be a bit of a drag on the economy. I am extremely worried right now. I don't trust that the current government is "prepared" for no-deal in the slightest and I think it's going to happen. I think there will be very noticeable immediate food and medicine shortages. I know that jobs will be lost. I think people and families will end up in debt/poverty spirals. I think lives will be ruined.