The EU - Referendum - 23rd of June 2016 - in or out?

[arista]

The Labour Leader is meeting the PM with other Leaders
at 6:15PM in her Parliament Private office.

Ref : LBC Live


And a statement from the PM at 8PM.

[Twosugars]

it's getting serious

[arista]

it's getting serious



Yes although
she has only has the EU backing
for 30th of June a Sunday
if her treaty - deal goes through
next week

[smudgie]

Hmmm, so her deal or no deal by the look of it then.

Then she can retire.:hehe:

[Withano]

so much for the EU protecting their own eh?

I have come to the conclusion that no deal with what the UK deserves anyway, 52% of people wanted out, let them have it

I’d imagine only like 12%, max, would have wanted out with no deal. You’d be better off pleasing the 48% if it comes down to that.

[bots]

Hmmm, so her deal or no deal by the look of it then.

Then she can retire.:hehe:

or revoke article 50, if they have the balls to do it

[reece(:]

Could she resign tonight?

[arista]

Could she resign tonight?



Only if all her meetings went wrong.

[MTVN]

The EU have only emboldened the ERG now to oppose the deal as they now think No Deal is within their grasp, I think they were coming round before the last 2 days

If May is making a statement I think she is either going to say she will resign or call a general election providing her deal passes, the former could convince some Tories and the latter some Labour..

[Twosugars]

Nathalie Loiseau, France’s Europe minister, said recently that if she had one, she would call her cat Brexit: “It wakes me up miaowing because it wants to go out. When I open the door, its sits there, undecided. Then it looks daggers at me when I put it out.”

[Alf]

You all sound hysterical.

[bots]

The EU have only emboldened the ERG now to oppose the deal as they now think No Deal is within their grasp, I think they were coming round before the last 2 days

If May is making a statement I think she is either going to say she will resign or call a general election providing her deal passes, the former could convince some Tories and the latter some Labour..

yeah, i think it's red rag to a bull wrt the ERG and the DUP, May has no chance of getting her deal over the line now, she must know that, so she will either resign now (not so likely) or on the 29th .... a certainty if the extension is voted down, and i think it will be.

[Twosugars]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/20/pathetic-incoherent-chaotic-europes-verdict-on-brexit-shambles

Pathetic, incoherent, chaotic: Europe's verdict on Brexit shambles
UK’s reputation for diplomacy, pragmatism and self-restraint has all but gone, say politicians and officials across EU

When he started out as a young civil servant, said Alexander Graf Lambsdorff, a German MP from the liberal Free Democratic party, Britain was “always held up as a model of good diplomacy, of pragmatism and of self-restraint”.

That was then. Now, with the UK’s scheduled exit barely a week away and still no clarity in sight, “No one would sign up to that view,” Lambsdorff said. “Now, the UK is seen as neither pragmatic, self-restrained, nor a model.”

For politicians, diplomats and officials across the continent, the past two-and-a-half years of Britain’s fraught, seemingly interminable and increasingly shambolic departure from the EU have proved an eye-opener.

Some have responded with humour. Nathalie Loiseau, France’s Europe minister, said recently that if she had one, she would call her cat Brexit: “It wakes me up miaowing because it wants to go out. When I open the door, its sits there, undecided. Then it looks daggers at me when I put it out.”

Others have found it harder to laugh. To the shock of many, Brexit has revealed a country they long looked up to locked in a narrative of its own exceptionalism, talking mainly to itself, incoherent, entitled, incapable of compromise (with itself or its neighbours), wholly unrealistic, and startlingly ignorant of the workings of an organisation it has belonged to for nearly 50 years.

“Britain’s reputation is, there’s no denying it, much diminished,” judged Pascal Lamy, one of France’s most senior public officials, a former presidential adviser, European commissioner and World Trade Organization head.

Some British politicians are “on another planet”, Lamy said, incapable of seeing that Brexit is the infinitely complex diplomatic and legal equivalent of “trying to take the eggs out of an omelette. Even today, they spout the most monstrous nonsense. Many have still not landed in a place one could call reality. The cognitive dissonance is … remarkable.”

André Gattolin, vice president of the French senate’s European affairs committee, concurred. “It’s actually pathetic, and distressing for someone like me who has liked and admired Britain all his life, to watch these debates in Westminster,” Gattolin said. “MPs are suggesting solutions, possibilities, that just do not exist in the real world.”

The Brexit process feels like “some weird mix of Anarchy in the UK and one of those Agatha Christie detective stories where all the suspects are locked in a room talking to each other, with no interest in, or grasp of, what’s going on outside,” he said.

In practical negotiating terms, “efficient and knowledgeable” officials had been short-circuited, Lamy said, “cut out of both the decision-making and the action, replaced by people who are ideologically pure – and, of course, have royally messed things up”.

From the outset, recalled Tomáš Prouza, the Czech Republic’s then state secretary for EU affairs, British unpreparedness was clear. “Even before the referendum, when David Cameron met [the then Czech prime minister] Bohuslav Sobotka, I saw a very serious lack of preparation,” he said.

“Sobotka was a very technical person, interested in how to re-open treaties. Cameron had a complete lack of interest in the subject.” Worse followed: “We had meetings with David Davis when he had no idea what he was talking about. No idea of how EU treaties functioned.”

Most damaging of all, Prouza said, was Britain’s “sense of entitlement … It was all: ‘We are the UK, we are the big guys. You need us for business, in terms of security, you export so much to the British market.’” The result? “We always looked up to Britain as an example of how a country could be ideally run. All that has gone up in flames.”

Han ten Broeke, until last year an MP specialising in EU affairs who chaired the Dutch-UK parliamentary friendship group, agreed. “Like many, I’ve long been an admirer,” he said. “But I have to say I’ve been completely baffled by this lack of understanding in the UK.”

From the first hour, Brexiters painted “a wholly unrealistic picture. The belief that ‘WTO rules’ will save you, if sovereignty is shared it’s somehow not real … These are fundamental misunderstandings.” Britain should know, he said, that “from our perspective, it looks like you don’t know what you’re getting out of – let alone what you’re getting into.”

Alexandre Holroyd, a member of the French parliament’s European affairs committee and Franco-British friendship group, said Brexit had laid bare “how little real understanding there is, even in a national parliament, of how the EU works, of its rules and institutions”.

That might not be unique to the UK, Holroyd said. But as a country that had always adopted “a legal, rules-based approach to the EU”, how could Britain ever have imagined that member states and allies “with essentially the same approach wouldn’t maintain it when it came to the UK’s demands”?

Sandro Gozi, an MP from Italy’s centre-left Democratic party and former European affairs minister, said he was “surprised to see such improvisation from a British government on such a vital topic”, but that Brexiters had “presented the British people with a wide, straight, flat path – and are now on a very difficult mountain full of curves and uncertainty”.

The opacity of Britain’s Brexit blinkers has been compounded by an adversarial UK political system that defies compromise, many said, preventing the government from ever arriving at a settled view of what Brexit should mean and tying its hands in talks.

“When the Danes voted against the Maastricht treaty, the no campaign knew exactly what it wanted afterwards,” said Lykke Friis, a former Danish climate and energy minister who likened Brexit to “an endless roller-coaster impossible to get off”.

That clear vision “helped serve as a basis for the national compromise that the country worked hard on, and eventually reached, afterwards,” Friis said. “Sadly, it seems Britain doesn’t really do compromise.” She was “flabbergasted” by the face of a country she knew as “strategic, pragmatic, able to defend its interests”, she said.

Consensus, the basis of all politics in many countries on the continent, really matters, Ten Broeke said: “If the centre cannot hold – country before party – you’ll be taken hostage by the fringes. And if compromise is viewed as treason, not survival …”

Gunther Krichbaum, a Christian Democrat MP and member of the Bundestag’s European affairs committee, said the German public and politicians were “incredibly exasperated. Theresa May would have been well advised to approach the other side, rather than try to convince people in her party who could never be convinced.”

When he was asked in 2016 how Brexit would turn out, Krichbaum said, he had replied that he feared the EU27 would “struggle to put up a coherent front” and warned that the Brits were “excellent negotiators and savvy political communicators. I got it completely the wrong way around, on both counts.”

Some simply cannot believe the sheer spectacle Britain is now offering. In Ireland, where Westminster has long inspired a mix of awe, resentment and loathing, a nation is struggling to reconcile that legacy with today’s chaos.

“There are people who regard it as great television,” said Bobby McDonagh, a former ambassador to London. “But it isn’t funny.” But politicians and officials in Dublin still cannot help rolling their eyes at the present state of the mother of parliaments.

“A ****-show that just goes on and on,” said one official. “Makes you wonder how they ever ran an empire,” said another. “British politics is quite broken at the minute,” said Lisa Chambers, the Brexit spokesperson for Fianna Fáil, the main opposition party, more diplomatically. “People have been surprised just how chaotic it’s been.”

McDonagh, who spoke in a personal capacity, said perhaps Westminster’s venerable history was its drawback. “Part of the risk of being the mother of parliaments is to have an exaggerated sense of your own importance,” he said.

France’s Gattolin agreed. “There’s a reliving of a Churchillian past that no longer applies,” he said. “The world has changed.” Ágnes Vadai, an MP from the opposition Democratic Coalition in Hungary, said she had never seen “such complete uncertainty in Britain. I’ve spoken to MPs who support Brexit, and I think they’re living in an old world that doesn’t exist any more. The problem for Britain was never the EU.”

Geert Bourgeois, minister-president of the wealthy Belgian region of Flanders, said Belgians had been “astonished. What we have seen is very un-British.” A former senior Belgian diplomat regretted the absence of “the more practical and pragmatic British, the evidence-based policies”. He blamed a lack of responsible political leadership.

Some remain diplomatic in the face of everything. Spain would “not get into an analysis” of whether the UK was still a measured and reasonable place, a foreign policy official said.

But others were brutal. “We are disappointed in the British political class, in the British parliament,” said Marcin Święcicki, a former mayor of Warsaw and a member of the Polish parliament with the centrist Civic Platform party.

In Germany, Lambsdorff said Europe had long smiled on harmless British eccentricities, but had now discovered another kind: “Eton games and Oxbridge rituals that appear to have taken over the House of Commons – and have very little to do with mature political decision-making.”

[arista]

Her Statement is now at 8:15PM
so SkyNewsHD say.

Ch4HDnews said its inside Downing Street

[reece(:]

Tory MP Dominic Grieve says Theresa May’s furious attack on parliament for blocking her Brexit deal has left him “never more ashamed to be a Conservative”, adding: “I could have wept.”

In a powerful speech, the former attorney-general condemned the prime minister for blaming the Commons for the crisis while refusing to accept any responsibility herself.

“I have never felt more ashamed to be a member of the Conservative Party or to be asked to lend her support,” Mr Grieve told MPs.

“She spent most of her time castigating the house for its misconduct. At no stage did she pause to consider whether it is, in fact, the way she is leading this government that might be contributing to the situation.”

The pro-EU Tory said he had long considered Ms May to be “a friend”, but added: “I have to say I could have wept – wept to see her reduced to these straits.

“And wept to see the extent to which she was now simply zig-zagging all over the place, instead of standing up for what the national interest must be.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-dominic-grieve-theresa-may-tory-mp-deal-vote-conservative-party-a8832516.html

[arista]

You all sound hysterical.



Yes blame the Remoaners

[arista]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-dominic-grieve-theresa-may-tory-mp-deal-vote-conservative-party-a8832516.html



Yes he is Standing Strong.
He is a Good MP
but he is only one vote

[arista]

1108412127646306304

[bots]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/20/pathetic-incoherent-chaotic-europes-verdict-on-brexit-shambles

that just highlights the fact that the UK has been at odds with the EU right from the start ... thats a fact.

However, todays politicians from all parties should be ashamed of themselves. They are a laughing stock

[arista]

From LBC Live
The Labour Leader walked out of the PM meetings
as some the Independent Group MP's walked in.....................

[bots]

"Three different sources tell @nickeardleybbc and I that Jeremy Corbyn walked out of the meeting with that PM because Chuka Umunna of TiG was there"

:joker::joker::joker::joker::joker:

[arista]

1108449149287129094

[MTVN]

Corbyn as mature and open minded as ever

[bots]

It's just obscene

1108452563530207232

[Sticks]

Maybe the statement will be confirmation of our victorious leap clear of the EU next Friday unfettered by Scuzzy deals.

I wonder if Ireland will be ordered by the EU to roll out the razor wire across all border roads for the new glorious hard border... :colour:

[smudgie]

or revoke article 50, if they have the balls to do it

She has said no to that, but she does have a penchant for changing her mind.:hehe:

[arista]

The PM has just been driven to
Downing street
so slight delay for her speech

[smudgie]

Corbyn as mature and open minded as ever

Lily livered.:idc:

[arista]

The PM is now Live
inside Downing Street
All media


Nothing new
other than 30 June Sunday date

[Alf]

:shrug:The PM is now Live
inside Downing Street
All mediaDoesn't she know that the nation are watching Coronation Street?

[arista]

:shrug:Doesn't she know that the nation are watching Coronation Street?


She was held up by her meetings

[Wizard.]

Can’t believe Theresa is such a huge fan of Coronation Street she did the statement during the ad break

[reece(:]

That speech was useless :joker: still pushing forwards her botched deal.

[arista]

That speech was useless :joker: still pushing forwards her botched deal.


Yes appears so......................

[The Slim Reaper]

Bloody Corbyn!

[Cherie]

Her deal is going through :omgno:

[reece(:]

"The best deal negotiable"

1108473473544998912

[Wizard.]

I do think trust that she says there won’t be another extension past June 30, how many times did she say we are leaving 29th March?

[Sticks]

Her deal is going through :omgno:

No, it's going to be No Deal Hard Brexit next Friday

[bots]

there is no way May's deal is going through, hence her attack on MP's. She is finished.

She may not like that her deal has been voted down, but that's democracy. She called an election and blew away the majority that she had. She is entirely responsible for the difficulties now.

[Jack_]

Couldn’t stop laughing during that :joker:

She is completely and utterly deluded

[joeysteele]

For goodness sake she kept all waiting for that.
Really, for me this woman is the worst PM the UK has ever had.

For goodness sake.
Vote her agreement through and then force her to resign and fade into political obscurity, where she always should have been in my view anyway.

[MTVN]

Punchy from May

It's not a popular view but I have so much respect for her, most people would have broken a long time ago with the strain she's been under

[The Slim Reaper]

Punchy from May

It's not a popular view but I have so much respect for her, most people would have broken a long time ago with the strain she's been under

:joker::joker:

[reece(:]

Punchy from May

It's not a popular view but I have so much respect for her, most people would have broken a long time ago with the strain she's been under

Not with that pay cheque

[MTVN]

Not with that pay cheque

You could get a lot more for doing a third of the work

[Wizard.]

You could get a lot more for doing a third of the work

Being PM of this great nation should be a privilege not a job.

[MTVN]

:joker::joker:

Another good contribution from the Slim Reaper

[MTVN]

Being PM of this great nation should be a privilege not a job.

She works 20 hours a day and has a greater sense of duty than any other PM I've known. No one else would have wanted the task she's had

[The Slim Reaper]

Another good contribution from the Slim Reaper

I thought you were genuinely joking. The abdication of responsibility, aligning yourself with the people whilst railing against government isn't impressive, it's actually a pretty worrying path to take, especially when you're the leader. If you think that's worthy of praise then that's on you. I didn't try to belittle you, so don't try that BS with me.

[bots]

Punchy from May

It's not a popular view but I have so much respect for her, most people would have broken a long time ago with the strain she's been under

her strength is also her weakness. She learnt nothing from the election where the people delivered a pretty strong message to her

[MTVN]

I thought you were genuinely joking. The abdication of responsibility, aligning yourself with the people whilst railing against government isn't impressive, it's actually a pretty worrying path to take, especially when you're the leader. If you think that's worthy of praise then that's on you, don't make me your issue.

Leading a minority government is near impossible at the best of times never mind when trying to extricate your country from a deeply complex union with 27 other countries when you lead a divided party. Everyone has imposed their own issues on May, she has become the scapegoat for every different faction

I do think her efforts of worthy of praise, you chose to make it an issue by dismissing it with joker smilies - that's on you

[The Slim Reaper]

Leading a minority government is near impossible at the best of times never mind when trying to extricate your country from a deeply complex union with 27 other countries when you lead a divided party. Everyone has imposed their own issues on May, she has become the scapegoat for every different faction

I do think her efforts of worthy of praise, you chose to make it an issue by dismissing it with joker smilies - that's on you

I gave specific reasons that her address was terrible; you may well have valid points about leading a divided government at this time but that wasn't really the issue. I apologise if you thought I was being dismissive but I genuinely thought you were joking - it was the "punchy from May" bit that got me.

[reece(:]

She's getting backlash from all sides online from that disastrous speech

[reece(:]

1108469278410502145

:joker:

[reece(:]

1108469278410502145

:joker:

[MTVN]

I gave specific reasons that her address was terrible; you may well have valid points about leading a divided government at this time but that wasn't really the issue. I apologise if you thought I was being dismissive but I genuinely thought you were joking - it was the "punchy from May" bit that got me.

Well I was maybe being a bit facetious with the punchy comment because I've seen it being used so often recently in political chatter that I adopted it there. I genuinely do respect May though

[The Slim Reaper]

Well I was maybe being a bit facetious with the punchy comment because I've seen it being used so often recently in political chatter that I adopted it there. I genuinely do respect May though

That's fair enough, I've no issue with that.

[The Slim Reaper]

For anyone interested, a petition to revoke A50

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

Already past the consideration for debate stage, but it's there if anyone wants to add on to it.

[Twosugars]

The cheek of the woman!
First she plucks her red lines out of the thin air then takes far too long getting going with negotiations, gets her deal and then throws a strop MPs don't like it.
Her inflexibility is astonishing. She should have spent those years building consensus within the parliament and negotiating something that would have a chance of being accepted.
Instead she ignored all that and got what she deserved.
And now tries to claim she is on the side of the people and therefore implying the parliament is against the people.
It's not about her, it's the about the country.
She's become an obstacle to solving this situation and should resign.

[Cherie]

The cheek of the woman!
First she plucks her red lines out of the thin air then takes far too long getting going with negotiations, gets her deal and then throws a strop MPs don't like it.
Her inflexibility is astonishing. She should have spent those years building consensus within the parliament and negotiating something that would have a chance of being accepted.
Instead she ignored all that and got what she deserved.
And now tries to claim she is on the side of the people and therefore implying the parliament is against the people.
It's not about her, it's the about the country.
She's become an obstacle to solving this situation and should resign.

Tbf she has tried to deliver Brexit which 52% of the UK want, and has been blocked at every turn :laugh:

and it must be quite frustrating to be told continually they dont want it, but have no idea what they do want, they are all covering their own jobs rather than delivering something

[reece(:]

For anyone interested, a petition to revoke A50

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

Already past the consideration for debate stage, but it's there if anyone wants to add on to it.

Signed

[Ramsay]

Hahaah

[reece(:]

1108477188079316995
1108492242803716096

[Twosugars]

Tbf she has tried to deliver Brexit which 52% of the UK want, and has been blocked at every turn :laugh:

and it must be quite frustrating to be told continually they dont want it, but have no idea what they do want, they are all covering their own jobs rather than delivering something

But Cherie there's no one brexit, there are many versions of brexit.
She's fixated on her interpretation of it even though not enough MPs support it and just doesn't know when or how to resolve this situation.

[Rob!]

Pretty much certain we’re leaving with No Deal now I guess, not a week since parliament voted to take it completely off the table. Sums it up really.

She’s got some balls giving that speech, I’ll give her that. Literally absconding all blame and saying it’s the MPs fault? She’s a glutton for punishment. I wonder how THAT will go down over the dispatch box.

[Sticks]

We're Leaving without a deal
We're Leaving without a deal
Ee I Adio
We're Leaving without a deal

Next Friday....

[reece(:]

We're Leaving without a deal
We're Leaving without a deal
Ee I Adio
We're Leaving without a deal

Next Friday....
You post the same thing every day and do not contribute to the thread..

is this not considered spamming? :suspect:

[bots]

But Cherie there's no one brexit, there are many versions of brexit.
She's fixated on her interpretation of it even though not enough MPs support it and just doesn't know when or how to resolve this situation.

there is only one negotiated brexit, there is no other.

[AnnieK]

You post the same thing every day and do not contribute to the thread..

is this not considered spamming? :suspect:

Its ****ing childish if not spamming....I'd go as far as to say pathetic

[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/z0ntl9H4EXOJAYdPzvrC6Q/https/d2kmm3vx031a1h.cloudfront.net/UjNTymaRQRiD0Hw7Uw7T_dm.JPG

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/F2D1/production/_106116126_21mar1front01.jpg

[Cherie]

But Cherie there's no one brexit, there are many versions of brexit.
She's fixated on her interpretation of it even though not enough MPs support it and just doesn't know when or how to resolve this situation.

You seem be be forgetting the EU's involvement in this, they wont change the deal and have said so many times?

[bots]

Parliament can shout and argue as much as it likes, but they have a number of choices to choose from:

Accept mays deal
accept no deal
revoke article 50

The default is no deal, so if they want to avoid that, they need to choose one of the other options, and they need to do that within the next week. It's up to them, and I would suggest they think very carefully on it, because if they piss off their constituents, they will be out at the next election.

[Nicky91]

No Deal Brexit here it comes, omg can't wait for all the drama about uk in our news shows :love:

those who voted remain are Always welcome to still come on holiday within our EU borders though

[Northern Monkey]

Parliament can shout and argue as much as it likes, but they have a number of choices to choose from:

Accept mays deal
accept no deal
revoke article 50

The default is no deal, so if they want to avoid that, they need to choose one of the other options, and they need to do that within the next week. It's up to them, and I would suggest they think very carefully on it, because if they piss off their constituents, they will be out at the next election.

True.
I think if they actually do manage to stop Brexit like they want.Many people will just disengage from politics all together.
Plus it won’t be the end of it.We’ll be getting Brexit parties for the next twenty or more years.
I’m in the ‘just vote for May’s crappy deal’ camp now since the EU are playing hardball and there’s no better option.

[Cherie]

True.
I think if they actually do manage to stop Brexit like they want.Many people will just disengage from politics all together.
Plus it won’t be the end of it.We’ll be getting Brexit parties for the next twenty or more years.
I’m in the ‘just vote for May’s crappy deal’ camp now since the EU are playing hardball and there’s no better option.

I'm surprised, as a leaver why don't you want no deal?

[Northern Monkey]

No Deal Brexit here it comes, omg can't wait for all the drama about uk in our news shows :love:

those who voted remain are Always welcome to still come on holiday within our EU borders though

:joker:

How you going to enforce this?

Maybe have in our passports ‘remainer’ and ‘Brexiteer’.

[Rob!]

No Deal Brexit here it comes, omg can't wait for all the drama about uk in our news shows :love:

those who voted remain are Always welcome to still come on holiday within our EU borders though

Yeah. You don’t really know what you’re on about, do you Nicky sweetie?

[Nicky91]

Yeah. You don’t really know what you’re on about, do you Nicky sweetie?

we're getting rid of the weak link within the EU, now Hungary next out of our EU pls :wavey:


we don't need troublemakers in our strong europe

[Cherie]

:joker:

How you going to enforce this?

Maybe have in our passports ‘remainer’ and ‘Brexiteer’.

You will be waving your blue passport around like a badge of honour Monkey :laugh:

[Northern Monkey]

I'm surprised, as a leaver why don't you want no deal?

I did used to think that was a good idea but seeing the incompetence of our politicians I don’t think they could make a success of it.
The deal seems like the best option now.
Also i was/am a leaver but not a passionate one.
Just bored of the stasis we’re in now.
If there was another ref.I’m not sure how i’d vote now.Remain would have a 50% chance.
Edit:Or i’d just boycott a second ref.

[Cherie]

I did used to think that was a good idea but seeing the incompetence of our politicians I don’t think they could make a success of it.
The deal seems like the best option now.
Also i was/am a leaver but not a passionate one.
Just bored of the stasis we’re in now.
If there was another ref.I’m not sure how i’d vote now.Remain would have a 50% chance.
Edit:Or i’d just boycott a second ref.

I get that, I think we are all bored and at this stage if the Irish border wasn't so heavily involved I would say no deal and just go with it (and I am a remainer lol), I think the idea that the UK were ever going to be in the driving seat in negotiations was fallacy 27 v 1, its a huge bloc

I can't even remember what the problem is with the deal, is it just the backstop?

[bots]

I get that, I think we are all bored and at this stage if the Irish border wasn't so heavily involved I would say no deal and just go with it (and I am a remainer lol), I think the idea that the UK were ever going to be in the driving seat in negotiations was fallacy 27 v 1, its a huge bloc

I can't even remember what the problem is with the deal, is it just the backstop?

there were a number of issues with a legally ambiguous possible outcome .... no surprise there.

What people must remember is that this deal only covers the transition period. If we do truly want to leave, its a no brainer. Sure, there may be some things that could be better, but they can be negotiated for the next 100 years if need be ... so what. Any deal will always be renegotiated over time. It's just people playing politics, and they arent even good at that, which is what bores and annoys me in equal measure.

[Northern Monkey]

I get that, I think we are all bored and at this stage if the Irish border wasn't so heavily involved I would say no deal and just go with it (and I am a remainer lol), I think the idea that the UK were ever going to be in the driving seat in negotiations was fallacy 27 v 1, its a huge bloc

I can't even remember what the problem is with the deal, is it just the backstop?

For the hard Brexit side of the Tories(ERG) it’s the possibility that we as a country can’t unilaterally leave the backstop.We could be held prisoner indefinitely.We can only leave it with EU agreement.Obviously from the hard remainer side it’s the fact that they don’t want any Brexit and will do everything they can to stop it.
Labour erm....I don’t know.
They’re just being awkward.Corbyn wants power but they have no definitive position.
A customs union....something something.....general election.....

As I understand it anyway.

[Cherie]

there were a number of issues with a legally ambiguous possible outcome .... no surprise there.

What people must remember is that this deal only covers the transition period. If we do truly want to leave, its a no brainer. Sure, there may be some things that could be better, but they can be negotiated for the next 100 years if need be ... so what. Any deal will always be renegotiated over time. It's just people playing politics, and they arent even good at that, which is what bores and annoys me in equal measure.

Yes, that is it, sorry I have brain fog from too much Brexit news, and you have been saying it for some time, get the deal done then, it is in the MPs hand, May is quite correct in putting the blame on them I feel, back her or sack her, they had the chance to and they bottled it because no one wanted the job, so now they have to back her

[Cherie]

For the hard Brexit side of the Tories(ERG) it’s the possibility that we as a country can’t unilaterally leave the backstop.We could be held prisoner indefinitely.We can only leave it with EU agreement.Obviously from the hard remainer side it’s the fact that they don’t want any Brexit and will do everything they can to stop it.
Labour erm....I don’t know.
They’re just being awkward.Corbyn wants power but they have no definitive position.
A customs union....something something.....general election.....

As I understand it anyway.


Yes they have all been playing politics and I don't think the public will forget that easily, the lib dems are still in the wilderness

[bots]

For the hard Brexit side of the Tories(ERG) it’s the possibility that we as a country can’t unilaterally leave the backstop.We could be held prisoner indefinitely.We can only leave it with EU agreement.Obviously from the hard remainer side it’s the fact that they don’t want any Brexit and will do everything they can to stop it.
Labour erm....I don’t know.
They’re just being awkward.Corbyn wants power but they have no definitive position.
A customs union....something something.....general election.....

As I understand it anyway.

they want a customs union, and a safeguard on workers rights ... thats my understanding.

The best way to protect workers rights is to get an electable labour party, and if they are not in the EU, they can protect workers without permission from the EU .... its basically saying ... the EU would do it better than the labour party, which is astonishing.

[Sticks]

You post the same thing every day and do not contribute to the thread..

is this not considered spamming? :suspect:

But is that not what May is doing?

Spamming parliament with the same deal, over and over and over again?

Anyway, my little ditty is such an infectious ear worm, especially how it is predicting most likely outcome, whether we wish it or not.

I am just reminding you all of the default position, which has not changed.

[Nicky91]

Yes they have all been playing politics and I don't think the public will forget that easily, the lib dems are still in the wilderness

you guys could've already had a deal many many times, but parliament decided to be a bunch of clowns and be against their common enemy namely your PM May


that parliament doesn't think about the british public in general, cause if they did they would've already accepted a deal tbh

so it will be on them, the consequences of no deal brexit within uk

[The Slim Reaper]

For anyone interested, a petition to revoke A50

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

Already past the consideration for debate stage, but it's there if anyone wants to add on to it.

When I posted this, it was on about 150k signatures, I checked it before I went to sleep and it was about 250k, checked it a short while ago and it was over 600k and now the site has crashed.

[AnnieK]

When I posted this, it was on about 150k signatures, I checked it before I went to sleep and it was about 250k, checked it a short while ago and it was over 600k and now the site has crashed.

The power of TiBB :smug:

[The Slim Reaper]

The power of TiBB :smug:

Probably LT and Alf setting up multiple accounts to try and revoke it :smug:

It's been down most of the morning but it's now approaching 800k

[bots]

Its a bit redundant to force a debate on revoking article 50. If MP's want to revoke it, you can be sure it will be debated this week, it's not something that isn't in the minds of mp's :laugh:

[MTVN]

A petition backed by all of the faces who had been pretending to care about holding another referendum for the sake of ‘democracy’ have been sharing a new petition entitled 'Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.’ They’re not even bothering to pretend to be democrats any more…

The petition saw a suspicious jump in signatures last night, with blatantly fake signatures arising everywhere from Russia, to Afghanistan, to North Korea. Tens of thousands of signatures have also come from EU states including Jean Claude Juncker’s tiny Luxembourg…

https://order-order.com/2019/03/21/foreign-actors-hijack-article-50-petition-fake-signatures/

[bots]

Revoking article 50 at the moment has a 33% chance of being carried out, and the closer we get to next Friday, the more likely it will become. If May's deal gets voted down (again) or not allowed to be re-submitted, it then becomes 50/50

[Cherie]

I don't think we should revoke it at this stage

[The Slim Reaper]

A petition backed by all of the faces who had been pretending to care about holding another referendum for the sake of ‘democracy’ have been sharing a new petition entitled 'Revoke Article 50 and remain in the EU.’ They’re not even bothering to pretend to be democrats any more…

The petition saw a suspicious jump in signatures last night, with blatantly fake signatures arising everywhere from Russia, to Afghanistan, to North Korea. Tens of thousands of signatures have also come from EU states including Jean Claude Juncker’s tiny Luxembourg…

https://order-order.com/2019/03/21/foreign-actors-hijack-article-50-petition-fake-signatures/

Are there any statistics on the numbers of fake vs genuine? Of course there are fake sigs out there as there would be with most polls, but current location isn't a key indicator of anything.

Just out of interest, what isn't democratic about trying to revoke A50?

[MTVN]

Are there any statistics on the numbers of fake vs genuine? Of course there are fake sigs out there as there would be with most polls, but current location isn't a key indicator of anything.

Just out of interest, what isn't democratic about trying to revoke A50?

Not as far as I know but this reminds me of when a petition for a second referendum just after the vote got 2m signatures or something but then thousands of them were found to be fake

Revoking article 50 without even having a public vote on it? How is that democratic? At least before the argument was that 'it needs to go back to the people' rather than just 'cancel Brexit'

[bots]

I don't think we should revoke it at this stage

i would rather revoke than go no deal, and push the thing back to a referendum

[Cherie]

i would rather revoke than go no deal, and push the thing back to a referendum

that would be okay, but to revoke it without a plan about what to do if it was revoked would be as bad as anything we have seen so far

[arista]

Labour's Leader Jeremy Corbyn does not want Revoke
he says he can get a deal?

Live in Brussels on all media.

[Cherie]

I have been harping on about a 2nd ref since the day of the first result :laugh: I must HAVE MY WAY.... sorry Arista

[Cherie]

Labour's Leader Jeremy Corbyn does not want Revoke
he says he can get a deal?

Live on all media.

So he wants a general election so he can get a deal?

[bots]

that would be okay, but to revoke it without a plan about what to do if it was revoked would be as bad as anything we have seen so far

the true choice of a referendum should be hard brexit or remain, then people are in no doubt what they are voting for, and that is what it should have been first time around

[arista]

I have been harping on about a 2nd ref since the day of the first result :laugh: I must HAVE MY WAY.... sorry Arista


No he wants to leave
under his Labour rules



It would be a Rigged 2nd Referendum, anyway,
as no one wants her treaty deal.

[The Slim Reaper]

Not as far as I know but this reminds me of when a petition for a second referendum just after the vote got 2m signatures or something but then thousands of them were found to be fake

Revoking article 50 without even having a public vote on it? How is that democratic? At least before the argument was that 'it needs to go back to the people' rather than just 'cancel Brexit'

How about this, we revoke A50 to give those in favour of brexit to actually get a proper plan together that would pass and then put that plan on a ref with remain?

Could equally be argued that 35% of the possible electorate and 25% of the population also isn't a democratic process, especially when voting on the futures of those too young to vote, and A50 was never a legally binding resolution.

I'd rather have a new vote on it, but we're getting worryingly close to committing an act of extreme stupidity.

[arista]

So he wants a general election so he can get a deal?


Yes he is there in Brussels to get his plan ready.
And a General Election would wash away all those in the Indie group MP's - that are not a party

[Twosugars]

You seem be be forgetting the EU's involvement in this, they wont change the deal and have said so many times?

May chose her red lines and got the deal based on that. It's like choosing one colour in a rainbow for everybody without consulting and then throwing a strop others prefer a different one. Well, you should have asked first shouldn't you.

Same with May, she should have made it a cross-party issue at the start and build consensus in parliament and then negotiated based on that.
Instead she chose party politics, established her red lines based on appeasing Tory hardliners and DUP and now she's hostage to their approval or lack of. A stupid game if your majority is so slim.

[MTVN]

How about this, we revoke A50 to give those in favour of brexit to actually get a proper plan together that would pass and then put that plan on a ref with remain?

Could equally be argued that 35% of the possible electorate and 25% of the population also isn't a democratic process, especially when voting on the futures of those too young to vote, and A50 was never a legally binding resolution.

I'd rather have a new vote on it, but we're getting worryingly close to committing an act of extreme stupidity.

Well that stance would invalidate the vast majority of democratic votes but more people voted in this referendum than on anything else in our history and the turnout was greater than the vote which originally took us into the common market

I think the idea that 'a proper plan' could form following a revoking of article 50 is unrealistic and it's pretty clear that's not the agenda of those in favour of this petition anyway

[Twosugars]

they want a customs union, and a safeguard on workers rights ... thats my understanding.

The best way to protect workers rights is to get an electable labour party, and if they are not in the EU, they can protect workers without permission from the EU .... its basically saying ... the EU would do it better than the labour party, which is astonishing.
Your argument would be true if Labour could guaranteed being in power for ever.
Whis obviously it is not. So of course EU-enforced workers protection is better bc it can't be unpicked on a whim of a next government.

[bots]

May chose her red lines and got the deal based on that. It's like choosing one colour in a rainbow for everybody without consulting and then throwing a strop others prefer a different one. Well, you should have asked first shouldn't you.

Same with May, she should have made it a cross-party issue at the start and build consensus in parliament and then negotiated based on that.
Instead she chose party politics, established her red lines based on appeasing Tory hardliners and DUP and now she's hostage to their approval or lack of. A stupid game if your majority is so slim.

From the moment of the election result, May knew what she was going to do. People can criticise her, but there is no consensus, that's pretty obvious to everyone by now. Each has their own agenda, so she has to stick with the deal that meets with EU conditions and satisfies her political leanings. No-one else could do it differently.

We have a deal, that is for the transition period. It is of no consequence to serious politicians are lawyers, provided it allows a smooth transition.

People are being hoodwinked by MP's and believing the bull that one particular perspective is better than another. They don't matter at all. The are just showing how to play political games, nothing more, and the people have woken up to it now and see it for what it is.

In my opinion, both the tories and the labour party have ****ed themselves good and proper with their behaviour, and its unlikely that either party is sustainable going forward with their current makeup.

[The Slim Reaper]

Well that stance would invalidate the vast majority of democratic votes but more people voted in this referendum than on anything else in our history and the turnout was greater than the vote which originally took us into the common market

I think the idea that 'a proper plan' could form following a revoking of article 50 is unrealistic and it's pretty clear that's not the agenda of those in favour of this petition anyway

So democracy is imperfect? Agreed.

What is unrealistic about it? It would actually be the sensible thing to do. Brexiteers all voted for different reasons and different results, so it would also be democratic to give those people a chance to vote for something concrete as opposed to lies and false promises of the original Brexit.

The agenda's of people isn't the issue, we all have agendas. What I don't get is the desire to force something through immediately with absolutely no regards for the consequences, just because. That seems absurd to me.

[Twosugars]

It is an idiotic situation.
Let's remember that simply saying we would remain in the customs union would get rid of the effing backstop and probably pass the deal no problem.
During the ref, among many things people wanted in brexit, I don't recall anybody calling for tariffs with Europe or saying European goods are no good.
The only reason for this is hardliners dreaming of free trade. I doubt that dream is widely shared by voters. So May's red line on the customs union for example is purely political party issue, not something people asked for. A clear example of her not being on the people's side.

[bots]

It is an idiotic situation.
Let's remember that simply saying we would remain in the customs union would get rid of the effing backstop and probably pass the deal no problem.
During the ref, among many things people wanted in brexit, I don't recall anybody calling for tariffs with Europe or saying European goods are no good.
The only reason for this is hardliners dreaming of free trade. I doubt that dream is widely shared by voters. So May's red line on the customs union for example is purely political party issue, not something people asked for. A clear example of her not being on the people's side.

there is no consensus for a customs union, Labour tried to get it through twice and were defeated twice.

The backstop is a complete red herring, no-one seriously not wanting to break the political system would have rejected the agreement.

[Twosugars]

From the moment of the election result, May knew what she was going to do. People can criticise her, but there is no consensus, that's pretty obvious to everyone by now. Each has their own agenda, so she has to stick with the deal that meets with EU conditions and satisfies her political leanings. No-one else could do it differently.

We have a deal, that is for the transition period. It is of no consequence to serious politicians are lawyers, provided it allows a smooth transition.

People are being hoodwinked by MP's and believing the bull that one particular perspective is better than another. They don't matter at all. The are just showing how to play political games, nothing more, and the people have woken up to it now and see it for what it is.

In my opinion, both the tories and the labour party have ****ed themselves good and proper with their behaviour, and its unlikely that either party is sustainable going forward with their current makeup.

May's role was to negotatie the thing successfully. It was not for her to narrowly interpret the ref result and negotiate herself out of the deal bc that's what she effectively done.
It's not good negotiating something most people don't want. She had almost 3 years to make sure whatever she's cooking up with the EU will pass in parliament. It was her duty as pm to build a wide enough support in the parliament along the way.
She failed. That's why she will never be called a statesman (or stateswoman). She's ****ed it up and is too stubborn, even now. She needs to go.

[bots]

May's role was to negotatie the thing successfully. It was not for her to narrowly interpret the ref result and negotiate herself out of the deal bc that's what she effectively done.
It's not good negotiating something most people don't want. She had almost 3 years to make sure whatever she's cooking up with the EU will pass in parliament. It was her duty as pm to build a wide enough support in the parliament along the way.
She failed. That's why she will never be called a statesman (or stateswoman). She's ****ed it up and is too stubborn, even now. She needs to go.

i think you have missed the point, what May has done was planned by her from the beginning. As the government and as prime minister she has the right to negotiate on the country's behalf. She has the right to pick the direction. The opposition can object, that's all good, but they can't do anything else unless they make amendments or whatever, which is what they have attempted.

One has to put politics aside, realise that this brexit deal lasts 2 years only, by which time a labour government could come in to power and say, ok, we are joining the customs union. If they won the next election, that would be their right. This is NOT some end of days deal where things cant change when the transition period is over.

[Twosugars]

there is no consensus for a customs union, Labour tried to get it through twice and were defeated twice.

The backstop is a complete red herring, no-one seriously not wanting to break the political system would have rejected the agreement.

Bc they voted on party lines. That's been the problem from the start.
It could have been avoided by making it a non-party issue from the start.
The best example of how party politics poisoned the issue were last week's votes where Labour voted against 2nd ref and Tories voted for no deal. It's party politics.

[Cherie]

Whatever happens, MPs need to spell out the plan they have for after

No point revoking article 50 and then running around like headless chickens

Same with No deal....what is the plan for after no deal

[Twosugars]

i think you have missed the point, what May has done was planned by her from the beginning. As the government and as prime minister she has the right to negotiate on the country's behalf. She has the right to pick the direction. The opposition can object, that's all good, but they can't do anything else unless they make amendments or whatever, which is what they have attempted.

One has to put politics aside, realise that this brexit deal lasts 2 years only, by which time a labour government could come in to power and say, ok, we are joining the customs union. If they won the next election, that would be their right. This is NOT some end of days deal where things cant change when the transition period is over.

Let me repeat: it's no good negotiating something not enough people want. Forget Labour. Even her own party doesn't agree in enough numbers.
An outstanding PM would realize Brexit is for life not for the term of this or that government. Therefore it needs to be based on a broad consensus of all parties in parliament. She didn't do that, played party politics and now is a victim of party politics. Serves her right. That woman has always been a pedestrian, unimaginative politician. Her 6 years at the HO proved that. No surprise she turned out to be a pedestrian and unimaginative PM.

[MTVN]

So democracy is imperfect? Agreed.

What is unrealistic about it? It would actually be the sensible thing to do. Brexiteers all voted for different reasons and different results, so it would also be democratic to give those people a chance to vote for something concrete as opposed to lies and false promises of the original Brexit.

The agenda's of people isn't the issue, we all have agendas. What I don't get is the desire to force something through immediately with absolutely no regards for the consequences, just because. That seems absurd to me.

Well if the purpose of revoking article 50 is in order to hold a referendum that's one thing but I can't see the EU then being prepared to restart negotiations for another 2 years with a different PM and I can't see what other plan of Brexit could carry enough MPs with it. In any case the petition does make clear that the intention of revoking article 50 is to 'remain in the EU'. If we don't leave then it won't solve anything, Brexit will still loom over our politics for decades and define pretty much every general election we have in the future.

[reece(:]

1108478956947341313

:joker:

[The Slim Reaper]

Well if the purpose of revoking article 50 is in order to hold a referendum that's one thing but I can't see the EU then being prepared to restart negotiations for another 2 years with a different PM and I can't see what other plan of Brexit could carry enough MPs with it. In any case the petition does make clear that the intention of revoking article 50 is to 'remain in the EU'. If we don't leave then it won't solve anything, Brexit will still loom over our politics for decades and define pretty much every general election we have in the future.

We can revoke A50 at any time though. If we can't negotiate another deal then we can hard brexit anytime we want to, so I don't get the desire to force something through now, when we know that people weren't given a choice of what they would be voting for/against. It's not a now or never situation.

The deal we have now is better than any of the brexit deals, so we're already trying to force through a best of the rest kind of deal. Sometimes there just isn't a deal to be made and we either walk away from the EU or we stay.

Brexit will loom over our politics for decades regardless of whichever way this process goes. The referendum has achieved little else other than dividing the country completely at this stage.

It basically comes down to what people think is the least damaging proposition at this stage. There is no part of me that believes leaving the EU was ever the right thing to do, and even the most stringent of leavers must admit that the whole situation is a complete and unsatisfactory mess that no one can be happy with. It needs to be rethought.

[bots]

It basically comes down to what people think is the least damaging proposition at this stage. There is no part of me that believes leaving the EU was ever the right thing to do, and even the most stringent of leavers must admit that the whole situation is a complete and unsatisfactory mess that no one can be happy with. It needs to be rethought.

Appearances can be very deceptive. If there was an ounce of honesty among MP's they would have gotten behind the deal, if they were actually concerned with the democracy of the referendum.

There is a sea change going on in politics around the world driven by foreign government interference. May has not once mentioned that Russia were caught red handed interfering in the referendum .... why not? because she would probably destroy her party, and labour are infected just as badly

These forces thrive and encourage upheaval, just like Trumps doing.

I cn tell you straight, that what we have witnessed in parliament over the last 2 years has nothing to do with brexit, if it were, it would have been approved on the first vote.

[The Slim Reaper]

Appearances can be very deceptive. If there was an ounce of honesty among MP's they would have gotten behind the deal, if they were actually concerned with the democracy of the referendum.

There is a sea change going on in politics around the world driven by foreign government interference. May has not once mentioned that Russia were caught red handed interfering in the referendum .... why not? because she would probably destroy her party, and labour are infected just as badly

These forces thrive and encourage upheaval, just like Trumps doing.

I cn tell you straight, that what we have witnessed in parliament over the last 2 years has nothing to do with brexit, if it were, it would have been approved on the first vote.

Except there is no evidence of Russia helping left wing politicians in any way, and we've actually seen the opposite in France, USA, and they even funded a politicians election campaign in Italy.

Not sure you can remove brexit from the mess of the last 2 years; it actually seems pretty integral, and I completely disagree that people should just be expected to hop on board with a deal they think is bad. If anything it just highlights the false advertising of the brexit campaign, who were telling everyone that Germany would be begging us for a deal the day after the referendum.

[The Slim Reaper]

For anyone interested, a petition to revoke A50

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

Already past the consideration for debate stage, but it's there if anyone wants to add on to it.

Now over 1m Afghanies and Russians have signed it. Around 900,000 since TM's disastrous speech yesterday.

[bots]

Now over 1m Afghanies and Russians have signed it. Around 900,000 since TM's disastrous speech yesterday.

the entire population that voted remain would be likely to sign it .... it means nothing

[The Slim Reaper]

the entire population that voted remain would be likely to sign it .... it means nothing

Probably, but the fact it got 100,000 signatures means the government have to consider a debate on the topic, and maybe we can start to turn this into an honest conversation.

[bots]

Probably, but the fact it got 100,000 signatures means the government have to consider a debate on the topic, and maybe we can start to turn this into an honest conversation.

If parliament were to have a debate on article 50 on Monday, its a certainty that the majority to save face would say nope, not doing that. thats going against democracy. If the debate was scheduled after May's deal is off the table, most would have to take it seriously because they are on record as saying a no deal is not acceptable. :laugh:

[Sticks]

The runes are still saying No Deal Hard Brexit next Friday.

I feel a song coming on...

[arista]

The runes are still saying No Deal Hard Brexit next Friday.

I feel a song coming on...


You are Aware
The PM is going for 30th of June
Extension from the EU
today in Brussels?

[arista]

Probably, but the fact it got 100,000 signatures means the government have to consider a debate on the topic, and maybe we can start to turn this into an honest conversation.


Yes debate all you want
no change

[Northern Monkey]

The runes are still saying No Deal Hard Brexit next Friday.

I feel a song coming on...

We're Leaving without a deal
We're Leaving without a deal
Ee I Adio
We're Leaving without a deal?

Leaping gloriously into a No deal Brexit hard border?

[The Slim Reaper]

Yes debate all you want
no change

We'll see; the longer this is being screwed up and the closer we get to a no deal, there are going to be some politicians that realise what they're about to subject the country to. If we can build up the pressure (supposed to be a march in london on saturday) then we can try to give those politicians a backbone to stop this madness.

You'd make a great motivational speaker.

[Sticks]

You are Aware
The PM is going for 30th of June
Extension from the EU
today in Brussels?

But dependent on May getting her deal through parliament a third time, which Bercow has vetoed. The votes indicate she will never get it through.

Still on course for Hard Brexit next Friday, with no deal

[arista]

We'll see; the longer this is being screwed up and the closer we get to a no deal, there are going to be some politicians that realise what they're about to subject the country to. If we can build up the pressure (supposed to be a march in london on saturday) then we can try to give those politicians a backbone to stop this madness.

You'd make a great motivational speaker.


Yes that March set up by Blair's mate (A.C.)
but when Millions marched against the Iraq War/Invasion
New Labour did not give a FECK


Full Circle

[arista]

But dependent on May getting her deal through parliament a third time, which Bercow has vetoed. The votes indicate she will never get it through.

Still on course for Hard Brexit next Friday, with no deal


Yes she could avoid a vote
Upset the remoaners


Also if she goes past 23rd May
loads in the EU say then UK must enter EU Elections


Complicated Day

[bots]

In the published draft conclusions of their meeting, the EU 27 say:

1. The European Council takes note of the letter of Prime Minister May of 20 March 2019.

2. In response, the European Council approves the Instrument relating to the Withdrawal Agreement and the Joint Statement supplementing the Political Declaration agreed beteween the European Commission and the government of the United Kingdom in Strasbourg on 11 March 2019.

3. The European Council commits to agreeing, before 29 March 2019, to an extension until 22 May 2019, provided the Withdrawal Agreement is approved by the House of Commons next. Given that the United Kingdom does not intend to hold elections to the European Parliament, no extension is possible beyond that date.

4. The European Council reiterates that there can be no reopening of the Withdrawal Agreement that was agreed between the Union and the United Kingdom in November 2018. Any unilateral commitment, statement or other act should be compatible with the letter and the spirit of the Withdrawal Agreement.

5. The European Council calls for work to be continued on preparedness and contingency at all levels for the consequences of the United Kingdom's withdrawal, taking into account all possible outcomes.

[arista]

[MPs urged not to travel home alone as tensions rise
Deputy Speaker Lindsay Hoyle has written
to all MPs ahead of potentially crunch Brexit
votes next week.
"I have never felt this level of tension during
my time in the House and I am aware
other colleagues feel the same," wrote Mr Hoyle.
He said regional police forces have been
told to be aware of tensions both at
Westminster and locally.
He added that the Metropolitan Police has
been told it must take a lead to ensure MPs
can vote without fear. ]



Yes Hire Security

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47659410

[arista]

Yes bitontheslide
not 30th of June

She can have a extension until 22nd of May.

[Northern Monkey]

Overkill?

The armed forces have activated a team in a nuclear-proof bunker under the Ministry of Defence as the government prepares next Monday to enter "very high readiness mode" for a no-deal Brexit, Sky News can reveal.

Control of overall planning for the impact of the UK leaving the European Union without a withdrawal agreement next week shifts from the Cabinet Office to the government's emergency committee Cobra.

[Northern Monkey]

They never told us we’d be nuked :joker:

[arista]

They never told us we’d be nuked :joker:



No Nukes
just good area land - safe
away from the PLEBS


Operation Yellow Hammer

[smudgie]

Noticed an ad on telly earlier, on about preparing for Brexit.
Didn’t catch it all.
Probs be online somewhere.

[arista]

Noticed an ad on telly earlier, on about preparing for Brexit.
Didn’t catch it all.
Probs be online somewhere.


Its out of date already

[Twosugars]

they shouldn't be raising hysteria like that.
So far people limit themselves to marches and demos. Don't see brexit OAPs building barricades

[bots]

Overkill?

The armed forces have activated a team in a nuclear-proof bunker under the Ministry of Defence as the government prepares next Monday to enter "very high readiness mode" for a no-deal Brexit, Sky News can reveal.

Control of overall planning for the impact of the UK leaving the European Union without a withdrawal agreement next week shifts from the Cabinet Office to the government's emergency committee Cobra.

they are preparing for riots, there are 3,500 people involved

[Alf]

The only retaliation from Brexiters, if they're ignored, will be at the ballot box.

Be careful what you wish for.

[arista]

they shouldn't be raising hysteria like that.
So far people limit themselves to marches and demos. Don't see brexit OAPs building barricades


Of course
there are also Young Brexit Folk.


Hysteria can not be stopped
look all those folks stocking up with food?

[arista]

The only retaliation from Brexiters, if they're ignored, will be at the ballot box.

Be careful what you wish for.



Yes a General Election is needed
Getting rid of the Indie Group 13 MP's
who REFUSE to be a party

[Twosugars]

Of course
there are also Young Brexit Folk.


Hysteria can not be stopped
look all those folks stocking up with food?
Stockpiling food is sensible in case of no brexit, there may be shortages due to customs delays etc.
Yes a General election is needed
Getting rid of the Indie Group
who REFUSE to be a party

:laugh: you do have it in for them huh

[reece(:]

Meanwhile Our Anna clocked!

1108731861931565061

[arista]

Stockpiling food is sensible in case of no brexit, there may be shortages due to customs delays etc.

:laugh: you do have it in for them huh



Yes the Indie Group refuse to be a Party
that is WRONG.

In a General Election
many of the 13 will get KICKED OUT of being a MP
and they know that

[The Slim Reaper]

Petition now past 1.2m signatures

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

[arista]

Petition now past 1.2m signatures

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584


Yes so fecking what?

[arista]

1108792819999797248

[The Slim Reaper]

Yes so fecking what?

You of all people dismissing news updates? C'mon my brother.

[arista]

You of all people dismissing news updates? C'mon my brother.

The Number will keep going up.

Its not important news

[The Slim Reaper]

The Number will keep going up.

Its not important news

Neither is some of your BS but I don't just dismiss it.

Do unto others news updates as you would have them do unto your news updates.

[arista]

The PM is expected to give a statement and take questions from the media after the EU's news conference, expected soon

[Twosugars]

Neither is some of your BS but I don't just dismiss it.

Do unto others news updates as you would have them do unto your news updates.


:laugh:
Arista the news dictator?

[arista]

Neither is some of your BS but I don't just dismiss it.

Do unto others news updates as you would have them do unto your news updates.


OK Mate
I hear you

[arista]

Meanwhile Our Anna clocked!

1108731861931565061


Yes I watched the whole show
I record it.


And All Out Politics
SkyNewsHD 2 hours long 9AM - 11AM
also recorded

[arista]

EU are now saying 7th of May

[smudgie]

EU are now saying 7th of May

Ooh dear.
Better get shopping for more loo rolls.:hehe:

[arista]

1108793979489972226

[arista]

1108826546888937479

[Cherie]

So in the cross party meeting last night the general consensus was the people voted for pain and that is what they will get, there is a definitive lurch to No deal and Mrs May has left EU leaders in no doubt that she is not bluffing

Sky News just now


The EU leaders are locked way to discuss this latest development

[smudgie]

Looks like same old same old.
Different dates, but her deal or go back for more negotiation:shrug:

[James]

-ErOz3_ARgI

(The Day Today - early 90s)

[TomC]

does anyone know the name of the cutie who was on with another woman speaking to the main presenter just before theresa may came on yesterday? I was watching on BBC news channel. pls and thank you x

[reece(:]

does anyone know the name of the cutie who was on with another woman speaking to the main presenter just before theresa may came on yesterday? I was watching on BBC news channel. pls and thank you x

Henry Newman from Open Europe? :skull:

[reece(:]

Petition at 2.2 million

[Alf]

Petition at 2.2 millionJust over 15 million to go.

A no deal petition would drown 2,2m.

[reece(:]

Just over 15 million to go.

A no deal petition would drown 2,2m.

Then why hasn’t it?

[Rob!]

Just over 15 million to go.

A no deal petition would drown 2,2m.

There is one which has been live since yesterday and it has 392,966 votes compared to the revoke vote which has 2,281,326 so....

[arista]

The EU has had enough Prime Minister May of the UK and reset 2 new dates

Friday 12th April Options for the UK to decide

and

Wednesday 22 May to leave the EU


https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-delayed-uk-gets-two-new-deadlines-after-midnight-crisis-talks-11672302

[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/maU8iDpMkzfF_xmcwZXyMw/https/d2kmm3vx031a1h.cloudfront.net/JnsFGVbVRkqXdXoI1tRm_i.JPG

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/Pyo4L_qKB0EgvRlNYwQsPQ/https/d2kmm3vx031a1h.cloudfront.net/RqNuusqWRXC4SloCetzM_guardian.JPG

[Nicky91]

29th March no deal brexit here we come :)

[Cherie]

29th March no deal brexit here we come :)

I think so, according to Vince Cable this is the way MPs are seeing out of the mess now, and by doing that they can blame the people because apparently at the cross party meeting they said they voted for pain so it looks like they will deliver that ! but make no mistake there is pain in store for the EU too because it will cut both ways


Anyway I am past caring now

[Elliot]

This has gotten so embarrassing lmao

[bots]

it's not that simple, it's conceivable that the commons will vote down May's bill and then request a very long extension. This thing could now potentially go on for another year or 2 with us putting up mep's to the EU. I'm just sick of it now

[arista]

it's not that simple, it's conceivable that the commons will vote down May's bill and then request a very long extension. This thing could now potentially go on for another year or 2 with us putting up mep's to the EU. I'm just sick of it now




Yes no one wants
2 more years of this lot.
Also we would Have to enter EU Elections

And this paper has another view
https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/uABK2xrexJDWSwWJnUkIhg/https/d2kmm3vx031a1h.cloudfront.net/mrZX9SlxTL2XbQaq8MCn_dalymail.JPG

[Nicky91]

This has gotten so embarrassing lmao

how, next week you guys are out of EU it's that simple


just ignore and say no to that delay offer by eu leaders, 29th march leaving the eu is what people voted for tbh

[Cherie]

how, next week you guys are out of EU it's that simple


just ignore and say no to that delay offer by eu leaders, 29th march leaving the eu is what people voted for tbh

yes I think so

[Cherie]

Yes no one wants
2 more years of this lot.
Also we would Have to enter EU Elections

And this paper has another view
https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/uABK2xrexJDWSwWJnUkIhg/https/d2kmm3vx031a1h.cloudfront.net/mrZX9SlxTL2XbQaq8MCn_dalymail.JPG

Well done Mrs May, finally taking the bull by the horns, I think she is past caring now, she is being passed from pillar to post with everyone blaming her and taking no responsiblity for their own actions, she will probably quit on 29th March

[Cherie]

What is the bunker for>?

[smudgie]

What is the bunker for>?

Self explanatory.....to let the EU know she means business.

[Cherie]

Self explanatory.....to let the EU know she means business.

but why would the government need a bunker when they delivered the will of the people?

[smudgie]

but why would the government need a bunker when they delivered the will of the people?

All political shenanigans.....
Seems to have worked as well.
Mr Macron was full of what was going to happen, deal or no deal blah blah, then the EU blinked.:hehe:
Not sure if the bunker is a reality or just a well placed rumour.

[arista]

What is the bunker for>?

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/vwsAZI7xx583NaJqpJpnGQ/https/d2kmm3vx031a1h.cloudfront.net/ndPAO1tbRgSEiZLqAK9D_metro.JPG
Another Front Page on it.


Make plans
away from Plebs

[bots]

What is the bunker for>?

the bunker is a command post for potential riots. The Mp for Brighton was attacked last night, there is more of this to come. If ever there was a time for radical groups to exploit the circumstances, it is now

[arista]

Well done Mrs May, finally taking the bull by the horns, I think she is past caring now, she is being passed from pillar to post with everyone blaming her and taking no responsiblity for their own actions, she will probably quit on 29th March

That would be good

[bots]

That would be good

the odds of May being PM on 1st April are 1/25 :laugh:

[Cherie]

the odds of May being PM on 1st April are 1/25 :laugh:

I can see it, I think she is biding her time, but internally she is furious with the lack of support

[arista]

By the 11th of April Thursday
the UK must state if its going to be part
of the EU Elections or Not?


So Friday the 12th of April is what the EU say is our new date.

[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/Pf14cIWQtrfu-ERmfCqWXw/https/d2kmm3vx031a1h.cloudfront.net/xs8Dk3ZhTMqBsMXcjWiY_tele.JPG

And now they want her gone

[Nicky91]

all that claims in UK of a ''project fear'' of EU while that hasn't been the case at all

EU has given the UK plenty of choices and still have now, they were pretty much patient for a long time, but now they are annoyed (for right reasons if you ask me)



btw no deal brexit means shortage on food, medicine so those who are in need of daily medication (for example people with diabetes) will suffer since they can't get access to this medication due to the no deal

let parliament think of that and then i wonder if they still want their ''no deal'' no scare tactics, just plain simple reality check for them with some facts

[smudgie]

all that claims in UK of a ''project fear'' of EU while that hasn't been the case at all

EU has given the UK plenty of choices and still have now, they were pretty much patient for a long time, but now they are annoyed (for right reasons if you ask me)



btw no deal brexit means shortage on food, medicine so those who are in need of daily medication (for example people with diabetes) will suffer since they can't get access to this medication due to the no deal

let parliament think of that and then i wonder if they still want their ''no deal'' no scare tactics, just plain simple reality check for them with some facts

Wise diabetics have plenty of insulin in the fridge..and tablets in the cupboard.:hehe:

[Cherie]

Wise diabetics have plenty of insulin in the fridge..and tablets in the cupboard.:hehe:

They stockpiled anyway, and I am pretty sure there wont be any shortages anyway

[Cherie]

all that claims in UK of a ''project fear'' of EU while that hasn't been the case at all

EU has given the UK plenty of choices and still have now, they were pretty much patient for a long time, but now they are annoyed (for right reasons if you ask me)



btw no deal brexit means shortage on food, medicine so those who are in need of daily medication (for example people with diabetes) will suffer since they can't get access to this medication due to the no deal

let parliament think of that and then i wonder if they still want their ''no deal'' no scare tactics, just plain simple reality check for them with some facts


I am sure they will find a way around it, the EU wont want their fresh produce spoiling at the ports

[bots]

They stockpiled anyway, and I am pretty sure there wont be any shortages anyway

there was a loan company that just got their fingers wrapped for suggesting people could get a no deal brexit loan so they could stockpile stuff.

Look at the shelves at Christmas, emptied when shops are closed for a day. That will happen on a no deal for sure

[smudgie]

They stockpiled anyway, and I am pretty sure there wont be any shortages anyway

I have enough for a good while.
No doubt I could run short of other meds, but I will worry about that if and when it happens.

[smudgie]

there was a loan company that just got their fingers wrapped for suggesting people could get a no deal brexit loan so they could stockpile stuff.

Look at the shelves at Christmas, emptied when shops are closed for a day. That will happen on a no deal for sure

Strewth.
I think that’s terrible.
I reckon we should all put extra in the food banks to help for emergencies for those that are struggling.

[arista]

Petition now past 1.2m signatures

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584



Yes Corruption as Usual

"I voted 33,000 times"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36640459?SThisFB&fbclid=IwAR04G7WetZi6NmpP3u4lJHDBW77xhPBMYfIaIv26p 4UUWUepoP-UaMbIiIc

[The Slim Reaper]

Yes Corruption as Usual

"I voted 33,000 times"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36640459?SThisFB&fbclid=IwAR04G7WetZi6NmpP3u4lJHDBW77xhPBMYfIaIv26p 4UUWUepoP-UaMbIiIc

Chuff made this post in the other thread. I'll repeat, 4chan are alt-right trolls, they are doing this to try and affect the credibility of the petition, not to boost the numbers. This is on behalf of your side, Arista.

[arista]

Chuff made this post in the other thread. I'll repeat, 4chan are alt-right trolls, they are doing this to try and affect the credibility of the petition, not to boost the numbers. This is on behalf of your side, Arista.


They are Feck all to do with me.


My Side is Honest


And this is the EU thread

[The Slim Reaper]

They are Feck all to do with me.


My Side is Honest


And this is the EU thread

Arista, your side has been appallingly dishonest. I'm not saying you are before you get your knickers in a twist, but do you accept that this was done by right wingers in order to affect the credibility rather than boost the numbers?

[Twosugars]

The Leave side is honest? :laugh:
why have they been investigated and fined then?

[The Slim Reaper]

The Leave side is honest? :laugh:
why have they been investigated and fined then?

It was not me

Feckin honest

fines for being too

honest

[Twosugars]

All political shenanigans.....
Seems to have worked as well.
Mr Macron was full of what was going to happen, deal or no deal blah blah, then the EU blinked.:hehe:
Not sure if the bunker is a reality or just a well placed rumour.
how did you worked it out that EU blinked?
all comentators say EU has taken charge of the calendar, granted May far less than she asked for
Macron got what he wanted, a shorter extension.

[Twosugars]

It was not me

Feckin honest

fines for being too

honest

:laugh:

[arista]

Arista, your side has been appallingly dishonest. I'm not saying you are before you get your knickers in a twist, but do you accept that this was done by right wingers in order to affect the credibility rather than boost the numbers?


Look
I am not part of any group


I am a individual voter.

[arista]

The Leave side is honest? :laugh:
why have they been investigated and fined then?


They paid their fines
its normal.

[The Slim Reaper]

Look
I am not part of any group


I am a individual voter.

But you came on here shouting about corruption of the remain campaign. Whether you like it or not, you are part of the leave group, just as I am part of the remain group. It's obviously not your fault that alt-right trolls are doing this on behalf of your group, but all I did was give you the truth.

[Twosugars]

They paid their fines
its normal.
what, cheating is normal?

Arista, don't disappoint me like that :bawling:

[arista]

But you came on here shouting about corruption of the remain campaign. Whether you like it or not, you are part of the leave group, just as I am part of the remain group. It's obviously not your fault that alt-right trolls are doing this on behalf of your group, but all I did was give you the truth.


Yes Fecking Corruption
of a Revoke Petition that you keep pushing


Sort It OUT

[arista]

what, cheating is normal?

Arista, don't disappoint me like that :bawling:



On Both Sides of the House

[The Slim Reaper]

Yes Fecking Corruption
of a Revoke Petition that you keep pushing


Sort It OUT

Can you read?

The corruption on that poll is from alt-right trolls, not from remainers.

[Twosugars]

.Macron revised down chances of May winning vote to just 5% after hearing her at summit

According to Reuters, Emmanuel Macron, the French president, told fellow EU leaders during the EU27 discussion (ie, after Theresa May had left the room) that he thought May had only a 10% chance of winning the vote next week before he arrived at the summit. After hearing her address the meeting, he was revising that down to 5%, he said.

Donald Tusk, the European council president, said Macron was being “very optimistic”, Reuters says.

[The Slim Reaper]

Brexiteers: so May called their bluff and won :smug:

[Smithy]

Yes Corruption as Usual

"I voted 33,000 times"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-36640459?SThisFB&fbclid=IwAR04G7WetZi6NmpP3u4lJHDBW77xhPBMYfIaIv26p 4UUWUepoP-UaMbIiIc

You have you confirm your vote via email, so that’s not possible, it’s just people trolling

[Twosugars]

Brexiteers: so May called their bluff and won :smug:

Shows how disconnected from reality they are.
but wait, does it mean their promise of sunny brexit uplands is also not true? :bawling:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Shows how disconnected from reality they are.
but wait, does it mean their promise of sunny brexit uplands is also not true? :bawling:


you still sound a bit bitter at not winning the referendum of 2 years ago?

is that a fair assessment?

[The Slim Reaper]

you still sound a bit bitter at not winning the referendum of 2 years ago?

is that a fair assessment?

It's not an issue of winning or losing an election. All sides have done that throughout politics.

The fact that leavers see this as purely about winning an election as opposed to the good of everyone is illuminating, and not surprising.

[Twosugars]

I'm disappointed, LT, not bitter.

[Twosugars]

one of the op pieces in the guardian

The terms of the extension are not drafted for the prime minister’s benefit. They contain a message from the EU direct to the House of Commons. In crude terms: piss or get off the pot. If you want to leave with a deal, vote for the damned deal. If you are foolish enough to leave without a deal, do not blame us. Have a couple more weeks to think about it. But if you want something else, a referendum or a softer Brexit, work it out soon. And then send someone who isn’t May to talk to us about it.

EU leaders cannot say explicitly that they no longer want to deal with the current prime minister. Urging regime change is beyond the pale of normal diplomacy among democratic states. But there is no effort to conceal the frustration in May or the evacuation of confidence in her as a negotiating partner. The one thing everyone in Brussels, Berlin and Paris had most wanted to avoid from an article 50 extension was giving May a licence to carry on behaving as she has done for what feels like an eternity. They could no longer tolerate the hollow shell of a prime minister shuttling back and forth between Tory hardliners demanding fantasy Brexits and Brussels negotiators who trade in realities.

There is a difference between patience with the prime minister and readiness to help her country navigate through its current crisis. There are still stores of goodwill available for Britain in Brussels, but they cannot be unlocked by May.

[Cherie]

there was a loan company that just got their fingers wrapped for suggesting people could get a no deal brexit loan so they could stockpile stuff.

Look at the shelves at Christmas, emptied when shops are closed for a day. That will happen on a no deal for sure

I find myself curiously calm about it all :laugh:

Maybe people will lost a few lbs and that will help the NHS :hehe:

[Cherie]

one of the op pieces in the guardian

well her party had an opportunity to oust her and they bottled it so......also its interesting that the EU say this now at the 11th and a half hour just when it becomes clear May is willing to go out on no deal

[The Slim Reaper]

From yesterday:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2MnCsaWkAA0wf-.jpg

[Twosugars]

well her party had an opportunity to oust her and they bottled it so......also its interesting that the EU say this now at the 11th and a half hour just when it becomes clear May is willing to go out on no deal
you do realize it is a journalist's interpretation not EU's words?
but anyway why would they be saying it earlier when situation was different?
Idg your logic

[Twosugars]

The petition goes over 3 million

[Twosugars]

.The Conservative party’s second biggest donor has called for a government of national unity to be formed as soon as possible to solve the Brexit crisis.

John Griffin, the taxi tycoon who has given £4m to the Tories over the last six years, said the party should reach out to MPs from Labour, the Lib Dems and the Scottish National Party if it is to emerge from EU negotiations with a successful deal.

[Cherie]

you do realize it is a journalist's interpretation not EU's words?
but anyway why would they be saying it earlier when situation was different?
Idg your logic

No its not a journalists interpretation, according to Sky News last night the EU were seeking a way to negotiate around May but only after it became clear she was ready to trigger no deal,they have had no issue dealing with May for the last two years, but suddenly when they realise she cant enforce their crappy deal she is the wrong person for the job

[bots]

one of the op pieces in the guardian

honestly, that is complete nonsense. The EU know exactly who they are dealing with, they have an agreement that they have said wont be renegotiated. Any new leader wont change that.

There is no way the british public or the leave mp's will allow customs union to be added because that means free movement, that just will not happen. Corbyn tried twice already to get that added and it was voted down twice. It won't pass on a 10th try

If Mp's vote down May's deal again, i will happily support a no deal

[The Slim Reaper]

1109052365850714113

[Cherie]

1109052365850714113

I posted this last night, Vince Cable was at the cross party conference and he said the lurch to no deal from many MPs was alarming, basically as above the people voted for pain so that is what they will get

I think it has become a personal battle for May not she has steadily said we will leave on 29th March and she is going to enforce it no matter what, exacting revenge for all the strong and stable taunts, I think she is having a let them eat cake moment lol

[Twosugars]

honestly, that is complete nonsense. The EU know exactly who they are dealing with, they have an agreement that they have said wont be renegotiated. Any new leader wont change that.

There is no way the british public or the leave mp's will allow customs union to be added because that means free movement, that just will not happen. Corbyn tried twice already to get that added and it was voted down twice. It won't pass on a 10th try

If Mp's vote down May's deal again, i will happily support a no deal

wrong. they would be happy to grant a long extension if there was a consensus to look for a new deal with different red lines
how do you know what the british public would support if there was another ref?

[arista]

Can you read?

The corruption on that poll is from alt-right trolls, not from remainers.




Yes
But they are Feck all to do with me.

[arista]

The petition goes over 3 million


Yes half are Corrupted Auto Bot Votes
though...........................

[TomC]

Henry Newman from Open Europe? :skull:

...yes https://media.giphy.com/media/mS3jA0z4oEc5q/200.gif

[bots]

wrong. they would be happy to grant a long extension if there was a consensus to look for a new deal with different red lines
how do you know what the british public would support if there was another ref?

a ref is not going to list more than 2 options, also, MP's will not support leaving the EU and joining the customs union AND most importantly, the leave side would never allow leave to be tied to being part of the customs union in a ref .... your concept is a complete non starter

[The Slim Reaper]

Yes half are Corrupted Auto Bot Votes
though...........................

C'mon my brother, you keep coming back to this insanity. It's not half, it's a tiny percentage.

I know the petition can't compare to Farage's 1 man and his dog march, but it's a start, and we'll see if the London March tomorrow manages to bring out more than a guy with a blue passport.

[Twosugars]

a ref is not going to list more than 2 options, also, MP's will not support leaving the EU and joining the customs union AND most importantly, the leave side would never allow leave to be tied to being part of the customs union in a ref .... your concept is a complete non starter
wrong
there's enough support in parliament for a soft brexit, cross-party support

[Twosugars]

Yes
But they are Feck all to do with me.
nobody's accusing you personally Arista

[arista]

nobody's accusing you personally Arista



Of course.
I know that.

[Twosugars]

.No advice in place for patients in England if drug supplies dry up

Neither the Department of Health and Social Care nor NHS England has any official advice for patients in England about what they should do if they are left unable to get hold of their normal drugs.

The Patients Association campaign group is advising people who cannot access drugs from their GP or pharmacy to contact their local clinical commissioning group (CCG).

“Patients are in a very difficult position. The end result of Brexit could mean no change to their medicine supply at all, or potentially serious disruption,” said Rachel Power, the chief executive of the Patients Association.

[arista]

...yes https://media.giphy.com/media/mS3jA0z4oEc5q/200.gif



Yes I have met Henry
he is Fit , Sharp and Clever.


https://twitter.com/HenryNewman

[arista]

1109036880241324032

[The Slim Reaper]

1071078003780870146

[reece(:]

...yes https://media.giphy.com/media/mS3jA0z4oEc5q/200.gif

It's just a shame his opinions are trash!