Israel declares 'state of war' : Hamas fire '5,000' rockets

[Livia]

They'd still have the fresh water through the system the EU paid £100 million for if they hadn't dismantled it to make homemade rockets.

[Vanessa]

That's all very sadly true DemRed.

I just see this getting worse, even moreso as long as Netanyahu stays in control.
It's frightening and desperately sad for the ordinary citizens of both sides.

Netanyahu won't even listen to his strongest allies.
Only the dangerous voices making up his despicable government.

The guy is a monster.
Neither parties have covered themselves with glory, but this is genocide now and I can't support it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

They'd still have the fresh water through the system the EU paid £100 million for it they hadn't dismantled it to make homemade rockets.

Silly Livia

Hamas/Palestine are the innocence oppressed
Don't you watch telegram and Chinese tiktok

[Beso]

I haven't twisted anything! Protests haven't just happened on memorial day. There are regular protests.

As for the Palestinians, if they aren't dead, injured, starved or diseased and if they still had their homes and access to warm clothing, who knows what they would do, but right now, they have their own despair.

The ones elsewhere could..

[Livia]

Silly Livia

Hamas/Palestine are the innocence oppressed
Don't you watch telegram and Chinese tiktok

I get my news from Hamas press releases, just like the BBC do. They wouldn't lie to us, would they?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I get my news from Hamas press releases, just like the BBC do. They wouldn't lie to us, would they?

Well we did find out today they lied by double the deaths of Palestinian people

But hey ho, these things happen...

:skull:

[joeysteele]

The guy is a monster.
Neither parties have covered themselves with glory, but this is genocide now and I can't support it.

He absolutely is Vanessa.

As soon as I saw him taking over as PM again.
I expected some conflict.

However nothing like this.
Nor the blatant murder of the 7 international aid workers .

I cannot support Netanyahu and his really atrocious government.
It seems neither can the Israeli citizens.
I hope whenever this is concluded that Netanyahu will be out of power for goo

It is heartbreaking to think of the slaughtering going on now
October last year was pure evil from Hamas.
However there comes a point where 2 wrongs DON'T make a right.

I cannot now support this continuing.
What really worries me is what too our own PM Sunak stated at the start of Israel's retaliation.
When he said we stand with Israel ALWAYS''.
Virtually giving a blank cheque to them.

He's never retracted those words .

It's hard to look at this now and not think International law has been broken.
Even possibly war crimes too.
The frightening this is just where this is going to go and for how long too.
It's now wrong what Israel is doing.
It greatly saddens me to say that but I don't support it now either.

[Livia]

I've taken the liberty of copying LT's post in the Gary Lineker thread and posting it in here. Something to think about...




Gary Lineker, the BBC’s chief political commentator, believes it’s unfair that
he receives so much criticism for his comments on Israel and Gaza. “The
minute you raise your voice against what they’re now doing there,” he
complained during an interview with the Left-wing journalist Mehdi Hasan,
“you get accused of being a supporter of
Hamas.”

Any such accusation is clearly outrageous. I’m quite sure St Gary doesn’t
support Hamas, or indeed any other genocidal Islamist terror group.

I do, however, think he suffers from the same problem as an awful lot of
Western progressives. Which is that, when it comes to Israel, he has
absolutely no idea how biased he sounds.

As a matter of fact, he demonstrated this during the very same interview.
Speaking about the war in Gaza, St Gary said: “I can’t think of anything that
I’ve seen worse in my lifetime.”

This is a remarkable statement. Not least because St Gary was born all the
way back in November 1960. And, during the 63 and a half years since, the
world has endured quite a large number of brutal conflicts. Take the Second
Congo War (1998-2003), which
claimed an estimated 5.4m lives. And the Vietnam War (1955-75), which
claimed an estimated 3.5m. And the Soviet-Afghan War (1979-89), which
claimed an estimated 2m. To name but a few.

Indeed, far from being the bloodiest conflict since 1960, the war in Gaza isn’t
even the bloodiest being fought right now. The Syrian civil war, which began
in 2011, has so far killed more than 600,000 people. Then there’s the small matter of Russia’s war in
Ukraine. And, as mentioned in Saturday’s Way of the World, the ongoing
conflict in Sudan. To give just one small glimpse of the horror: a 17-year-old
Sudanese boy told Human Rights Watch that he’d witnessed paramilitaries
shooting children and then flinging
their corpses into a river.

St Gary, however, says he can’t think of anything that he’s seen worse in his
lifetime than what Israel is currently doing in Gaza, in its efforts to destroy
Hamas. I’ve no doubt that he’s being entirely sincere. I merely wonder how
he came to such a conclusion,
given that so many other conflicts in his lifetime have been even more
horrifying, and killed vastly more people.

Perhaps, during his glorious playing days, St Gary was so relentlessly focused
on his football that he never watched the news or opened a newspaper – and
therefore simply didn’t hear about these other conflicts. I suppose that’s one
possibility.

Even so, it is curious that Western progressives in general always seem so
very much louder in their condemnation of Israel than in their condemnation
of other warring nations. What exactly is it about Israel that makes them
constantly single it out like this?

I fear we may never know.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/14/gary-lineker-latest-israel-outburst-is-his-worst-yet/

[user104658]

I feel like the article is trying to suggest it's because of antisemitic bias but, I think it's just the same thing I was talking about before. Cause du jour. Why are the public focussed on this and not the myriad other conflicts around the world? Because that's where focus has been drawn for now. And that's where it'll stay - until it's drawn somewhere else, for other reasons. Then Palestine will just be another colour on the ever-morphing "flag of support" and the marching will be for [insert tomorrow's all-consuming issue here].

It's not just the flag wavers of course... the vast majority of pro-Israel chatter will disappear long before the conflict ends as well. Out of the news cycle, out of mind. And of course there's the ever-glaring and oh-so-sad reality that most heavily pro-Israel commenters doing the rounds (on and offline :hee: ) don't really care about Israel all that much - they care about "sticking it to the libtards" - so when the flags are onto the next topic... the counter-warriors will be too.

[Vanessa]

He absolutely is Vanessa.

As soon as I saw him taking over as PM again.
I expected some conflict.

However nothing like this.
Nor the blatant murder of the 7 international aid workers .

I cannot support Netanyahu and his really atrocious government.
It seems neither can the Israeli citizens.
I hope whenever this is concluded that Netanyahu will be out of power for goo

It is heartbreaking to think of the slaughtering going on now
October last year was pure evil from Hamas.
However there comes a point where 2 wrongs DON'T make a right.

I cannot now support this continuing.
What really worries me is what too our own PM Sunak stated at the start of Israel's retaliation.
When he said we stand with Israel ALWAYS''.
Virtually giving a blank cheque to them.

He's never retracted those words .

It's hard to look at this now and not think International law has been broken.
Even possibly war crimes too.
The frightening this is just where this is going to go and for how long too.
It's now wrong what Israel is doing.
It greatly saddens me to say that but I don't support it now either.

Definitely. What he's doing is genocide.
The world has learnt nothing from the past.

[user104658]

It's bizarre really - no matter what one believes about the nuance and rights/wrongs of the response from Israel, there is NO denying that the PR for Israel is absolutely shocking. And I fear unfixable. For a country that, let's face it, really is physically surrounded by hostility and relies heavily on international support to remain viable it's a very odd choice to be going in as hard and (at least, apparently) heavy-handedly. Moral high-ground posteuring and surgical strikes minimising collateral damage and offering maximum support to the civilian population would have been a politically far better choice in terms of "what comes next". When this is all over - whether Hamas is eliminated and Gaza reduced to dust or not - the future landscape looks fairly bleak and (despite what some disingenuous individuals would like to suppose from certain song contest results) international support for Israel is now at an all-time low.

[Cherie]

I don't know how he could forget the Bosnian War :umm2:

During the subsequent civil war that lasted from 1992 to 1995, an estimated 100,000 people were killed. Approximately 80 percent of the civilians killed during the war were Bosniaks. In July 1995, Bosnian Serb forces killed as many as 8,000 Bosniak men and boys from the town of Srebrenica. It was the largest massacre in Europe since the Holocaust.

On May 25, 1993, while the conflict in Bosnia continued—and a full year before the genocide at Srebrenica—the UN Security Council created the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY) to prosecute the perpetrators of the atrocities. It was the first such tribunal since Nuremberg and the first mandated to prosecute the crime of genocide, among other offenses.

Fighting ended after a NATO bombing campaign forced Bosnian Serbs to the negotiating table, and a peace agreement, the Dayton Accords, was signed in 1995. The agreement established two state “entities” joined by a weak central government: the Serb Republic, which includes Srebrenica, and the Bosnian Federation. Refugees were guaranteed the right to return to their homes, but only a fraction of the prewar Bosniak population has gone back to Srebrenica.

In 2001, the ICTY ruled that genocide had occurred in Srebrenica. Efforts to achieve justice for the victims at Srebrenica are still ongoing in Serbia and internationally. The genocide in Srebrenica continues to challenge us to learn from the past, to hold the perpetrators of mass atrocities accountable, and to prevent these horrific crimes from happening in the future.

Last Edited: Apr 12, 2019

[Cherie]

It's bizarre really - no matter what one believes about the nuance and rights/wrongs of the response from Israel, there is NO denying that the PR for Israel is absolutely shocking. And I fear unfixable. For a country that, let's face it, really is physically surrounded by hostility and relies heavily on international support to remain viable it's a very odd choice to be going in as hard and (at least, apparently) heavy-handedly. Moral high-ground posteuring and surgical strikes minimising collateral damage and offering maximum support to the civilian population would have been a politically far better choice in terms of "what comes next". When this is all over - whether Hamas is eliminated and Gaza reduced to dust or not - the future landscape looks fairly bleak and (despite what some disingenuous individuals would like to suppose from certain song contest results) international support for Israel is now at an all-time low.

I don't think its disingenuous to claim that most normal people can seperate normal Israelis from their government.... the public vote speak for themselves ...the bullying of that 20 year old girl by fellow contestants was low, even you must agree with that surely? Also after the Manchester bombing I seem to recall Mancunians coming together against terrorism, that was allowed but your bog standard Israeli it seems are supposed to take mass massacre on the chin...because of....something something Nethanyahu

[Beso]

We can also add the persecution and slaughter of the Rohingya Muslims, by the Burmese government..to the long list if things st gary doesn't see as heartbreaking.

[Ammi]

…the Telegraph article (imo…)…is pretty awful tbh…it talks about ‘bias’, while referring to him as St Gary …so very much a bias article in itself …I think Gary Lineker in his wording…(…whatever his intent…)…the Hamas attack of 7th October and I don’t think that was good at all, I think for anyone speaking out as a humanitarian, it’s important to know the weight of words and how important they are…but so far as ‘anything he’s seen in his lifetime…’… is concerned, I think that has more to do with how we have access to world news in terms of visuals and the internet and the how that impacts the world …a missile is launched…?…we see that immediate impact as it finds its target etc…we are ‘live witnesses’ in a way that is quite recent in terms of technology…so again, I think it’s just his choice of wording is my opinion/ my own take and interpretation…

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GDZok9TWYAAxO-E?format=jpg&name=large

[user104658]

I don't think its disingenuous to claim that most normal people can seperate normal Israelis from their government.... the public vote speak for themselves ...the bullying of that 20 year old girl by fellow contestants was low, even you must agree with that surely? Also after the Manchester bombing I seem to recall Mancunians coming together against terrorism, that was allowed but your bog standard Israeli it seems are supposed to take mass massacre on the chin...because of....something something Nethanyahu

I don't recall groups of Mancs carpet bombing any hospitals or obliterating entire cities in retribution to be fair so I don't see how this is a helpful comparison, other than to point out that many nations have experienced terrorist catastrophes and not used it as justification for the careless bombing of civilians.

Anyway... I've gone over why the standalone number is irrelevant as a statistic in the absence of a directly opposite choice in the Eurovision threads but that doesn't really matter here: if you're right and the vote reflects people separating "Israeli individuals from Israeli state" (as I agree, everyone absolutely should, for all nations) it's still or perhaps even more disingenuous to imply that the Eurovision vote demonstrates widespread public approval for Israel's military/political actions.

And thus, has no bearing on the simple fact that international support for Israel (as a state) is potentially at an all-time low. Which was really my main point.

[Beso]

Bit of a difference between ISIS terrorist cells bombing places and the Palestinian ruling party ordering the oct 7th attacks....but anything to diminish their responsibility huh...

[Beso]

Bombing cities after act if war against your citizens....not ok...

Raping and murdering because you dont like your neighbour ok.....

In some peoples heads

[user104658]

Bit of a difference between ISIS terrorist cells bombing places and the Palestinian ruling party ordering the oct 7th attacks....but anything to diminish their responsibility huh...

Hamas is either a terrorist organisation or a legitimate government, it seems some people would like to define them as either/or depending on what fits on that day.

If they are a legitimate government then Oct 7th was not a terrorist attack but a first-strike act of war.

If they are a terrorist organisation then they are not the legitimate ruling party of Palestine in any meaningful way that would justify action against the population of Palestine in retribution for attacks carried out by Hamas.

I get that you don't want to pick because it's more convenient not to - but in my view, Hamas has far more in common with a terrorist organisation than they do with a legitimate government... thus Oct 7th was a terrorist attack... and bombing civilian populations is a disproportionate response.

[user104658]

Bombing cities after act if war against your citizens....not ok...

Raping and murdering because you dont like your neighbour ok.....

In some peoples heads

No one on this forum.

[Cherie]

I don't recall groups of Mancs carpet bombing any hospitals or obliterating entire cities in retribution to be fair so I don't see how this is a helpful comparison, other than to point out that many nations have experienced terrorist catastrophes and not used it as justification for the careless bombing of civilians.

Anyway... I've gone over why the standalone number is irrelevant as a statistic in the absence of a directly opposite choice in the Eurovision threads but that doesn't really matter here: if you're right and the vote reflects people separating "Israeli individuals from Israeli state" (as I agree, everyone absolutely should, for all nations) it's still or perhaps even more disingenuous to imply that the Eurovision vote demonstrates widespread public approval for Israel's military/political actions.

And thus, has no bearing on the simple fact that international support for Israel (as a state) is potentially at an all-time low. Which was really my main point.


As I have already explained no one said there was widespread approval for Israels actions, the positive vote was for a 20 year old girl bullied by people who jump on the latest bandwagon which happens at the moment to be be Palestine

and the comparison with Manchester is very appropriate, she was bullied because she had sympathy with those Israelis killed..how very dare she have empathy for people from her country

[Crimson Dynamo]

Bombing cities after act if war against your citizens....not ok...

Raping and murdering because you dont like your neighbour ok.....

In some peoples heads

https://static.euronews.com/articles/stories/08/42/06/28/1200x675_cmsv2_833bbe5b-6cdc-59eb-a0f5-5d14397fff88-8420628.jpg

[arista]

Bring a Big Van
chuck them all in it.

[Beso]

I shall say it again.
.71 percent of Palestinians support the actions of hamas ,(the ruling body of Palestine) on oct 7th...

I wonder if they still do?

[user104658]

I shall say it again.
.71 percent of Palestinians support the actions of hamas ,(the ruling body of Palestine) on oct 7th...

I wonder if they still do?

71% of Palestinians polled by whom and using what methodology.

If they accurately polled women and children I will eat my own hat and yours Parmy.

[user104658]

As I have already explained no one said there was widespread approval for Israels actions, the positive vote was for a 20 year old girl bullied by people who jump on the latest bandwagon which happens at the moment to be be Palestine

and the comparison with Manchester is very appropriate, she was bullied because she had sympathy with those Israelis killed..how very dare she have empathy for people from her country

It has literally nothing to do with the point made in this thread but I can accept that it's my own fault for distracting from my own point by pointedly mentioning the Eurovision threads. Mea culpa. The only relevant point (which, despite some difference in opinion on the reason for this, we appear to agree on?) is that the Eurovision vote does not reflect international attitudes towards the government of Israel and that international support for Israel at both a population and official level is objectively less now than it was on Oct 6th 2023.

[Livia]

I shall say it again.
.71 percent of Palestinians support the actions of hamas ,(the ruling body of Palestine) on oct 7th...

I wonder if they still do?

Judging by the Palestinian celebrations and dancing in the street on October 7th I'd say 71% was quite conservative. It's one of several images from that day I can never un-see

[user104658]

Judging by the Palestinian celebrations and dancing in the street on October 7th I'd say 71% was quite conservative. It's one of several images from that day I can never un-see

Again Livia can you find one of those images and count the number of dancing women and children. The counting shouldn't take long?

[Beso]

71% of Palestinians polled by whom and using what methodology.

If they accurately polled women and children I will eat my own hat and yours Parmy.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/

[user104658]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/

This doesn't actually answer the question about who was polled, but never mind.

This did catch my attention though:

"The PCPSR poll found that 44% of Gazans say they have enough food and water for a day or two, and 56% say that they do not. Almost two-thirds of Gazan respondents - 64% - said a member of their family had been killed or injured in the war."

I wonder what percentage of Israeli citizens don't have enough food and water to last a few days? Do you think it'll be less than 56%? I wonder what percentage of Israeli citizens have lost a direct family member in the conflict?

I wonder what percentage of comfortable commentators sat on our computers here in Britain? I wonder what we'd do or think if we were starving or had lost family to war.

I wonder.

[Crimson Dynamo]

This doesn't actually answer the question about who was polled, but never mind.

This did catch my attention though:

"The PCPSR poll found that 44% of Gazans say they have enough food and water for a day or two, and 56% say that they do not. Almost two-thirds of Gazan respondents - 64% - said a member of their family had been killed or injured in the war."

I wonder what percentage of Israeli citizens don't have enough food and water to last a few days? Do you think it'll be less than 56%? I wonder what percentage of Israeli citizens have lost a direct family member in the conflict?

I wonder what percentage of comfortable commentators sat on our computers here in Britain? I wonder what we'd do or think if we were starving or had lost family to war.

I wonder.

I wonder if they were telling the truth....



:whistle:

[Beso]

I doubt they were LT, considering this is from december last year and still nobody is dying from starvation.

[Beso]

And TS, 71 percent of the population.... it must include women..unless you believe 71 percent of the Palestinian pop is male.

[user104658]

I wonder if they were telling the truth....



:whistle:

I doubt they were LT, considering this is from december last year and still nobody is dying from starvation.

And TS, 71 percent of the population.... it must include women..unless you believe 71 percent of the Palestinian pop is male.

You can't even make up your own minds about whether it's a reliable poll or not :idc: my entire point was that it probably isn't accurate.

Of course in true form for you chaps: the parts that you would like to be accurate are accurate, the parts that don't fall in line with what you want to be true are inaccurate lies.

If ever there was an illustration of the benefits of further education. Sigh.

[user104658]

And TS, 71 percent of the population.... it must include women..unless you believe 71 percent of the Palestinian pop is male.

I asked about the methodology for a reason. Unless the polling was specifically structured to encapsulate the views of a diverse range of participants, then it can only have been done in one of two ways. The first is random polling in public settings, the second is polling of households (where possible I suppose?).

In either case, given the social structure of a predominantly Muslim nation, whether the poll was carried out publicly or per-household the primary respondent is likely to have been an adult male. Meaning that the results are skewed in such a way that it has no bearing on the morality of bombing the entire population.

[user104658]

Not that any of it matters now as you and LT have just clearly agreed that it's an unreliable poll.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not that any of it matters now as you and LT have just clearly agreed that it's an unreliable poll.

yes the support for Hamas is probably 91%

[Beso]

Not that any of it matters now as you and LT have just clearly agreed that it's an unreliable poll.

Yet you cherry pick the part you believe to be true whilst rubbishing the other part..:shrug:

[user104658]

Yet you cherry pick the part you believe to be true whilst rubbishing the other part..:shrug:

No I didn't, I clearly said multiple times that the entire poll is likely to be unreliable due to the circumstances under which it has been conducted.

[DemRed]

grAI0qXqRjo

[arista]

grAI0qXqRjo


Yes Good Report from Al Jazeera

Terrible waste of Urgent Food
needed in GAZA.

[DemRed]

And the result of the last video is this
dODVLt-x86Y

[arista]

Yes Ch4HDnews
also showed the sad cases
as well

[Beso]

No I didn't, I clearly said multiple times that the entire poll is likely to be unreliable due to the circumstances under which it has been conducted.

It was conducted by the Palestinians, and is the only figures we have to go on.. You asked for the poll source, you got the poll source..you then say it's not reliable, whilst in the same breath highlighting people having a days worth of food whilst rubbishing the poll results.

The mere fact nobody has died from starvation since the article was written in december should have made you think twice about that cherry you tried to pick..

Go and find your own polls in future, and also, if you search Palestinian women celebrating oct 7th attacks you will find plenty of photographs of them doing so..so there is livia statement proven as well as my own..now can you prove that peope have died from starvation since december?

Or has the israeli and western governments aid plans worked? Even though hamas continue to bomb the usa built pier they built to land the supplies.

[DemRed]

Yes Good Report from Al Jazeera

Terrible waste of Urgent Food
needed in GAZA.


Its tragic Arista... I agree.

[Liam-]

Indoctrinating their children with hatred, shameful

https://twitter.com/lowkey0nline/status/1790360431799812175?s=46&t=-V1HH0UJyce-tDsLnymASQ

[arista]

Indoctrinating their children with hatred, shameful

https://twitter.com/lowkey0nline/status/1790360431799812175?s=46&t=-V1HH0UJyce-tDsLnymASQ


Again such a waste
all that food is needed urgently in Gaza.

[bots]

yeah, young children are stealing all the aid and intimidating the hamas fighters ..... what bollocks is this

[Crimson Dynamo]

yeah, young children are stealing all the aid and intimidating the hamas fighters ..... what bollocks is this

Embarrassing to post it here

[Vanessa]

And the result of the last video is this
dODVLt-x86Y

That's just awful. I can never support Israel government after they've doing this. No way.

[Crimson Dynamo]

If Hamas released the hostages you wouldn't have to

[Livia]

Babies have been starving to death in Yemen for ten years. Where's all the outrage at that? Israel's not involved, that's why.

[Vanessa]

If Hamas released the hostages you wouldn't have to

I don't think that would end the war. It's gone way beyond that, I'm thinking.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I don't think that would end the war. It's gone way beyond that, I'm thinking.

Nope

You do agree Palestine must release hostages immediately?

[joeysteele]

I don't think that would end the war. It's gone way beyond that, I'm thinking.

I agree, for as long as Netanyahu remains PM with the extreme hard-line lot his survival in power relies on too.

I believe Netanyahu has his own agenda and it's NOT one of peace.

[Liam-]

Netenyahu has turned down multiple offers for the hostages to be released, anybody that still parrots the ‘if they released the hostages’ line is so obviously lying to themselves and others, it’s not about the hostages, never has been

[DemRed]

Indoctrinating their children with hatred, shameful

https://twitter.com/lowkey0nline/status/1790360431799812175?s=46&t=-V1HH0UJyce-tDsLnymASQ

They put bouncy castles up for the kids and throw parties blocking the entrance to Gaza. They truck drivers get no protection from the police or IDF and so its getting more and more perilous to get aid in.
This is a war crime and fortunately, much of the world is watching.

[Vanessa]

Nope

You do agree Palestine must release hostages immediately?

I hope they do. But that won't end this war. I wish it would.

[Livia]

Indoctrinating their children with hatred, shameful

Something the Palestinians would never do. Right?

[DemRed]

Babies have been starving to death in Yemen for ten years. Where's all the outrage at that? Israel's not involved, that's why.


This thread is about Israel and Palestine. You could always start another thread.

[Vanessa]

They put bouncy castles up for the kids and throw parties blocking the entrance to Gaza. They truck drivers get no protection from the police or IDF and so its getting more and more perilous to get aid in.
This is a war crime and fortunately, much of the world is watching.

Israeli government is starving the Gaza people on purpose. The definition of genocide.

[Vanessa]

I don't blame the Israeli people for this.
They have no say in what the government does.

[Livia]

This thread is about Israel and Palestine. You could always start another thread.

Why don't you? You're the one posting the starving babies posts. I've drawn a comparison and asked why it's only bad when Israel is involved. I already know the answer, by the way.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I hope they do. But that won't end this war. I wish it would.

It would be the most significant move to make

I wonder why hamas Palestine won't

Have you any idea?

[DemRed]

I don't blame the Israeli people for this.
They have no say in what the government does.

I have friends in Israel and I'm in contact with them quite a bit in present times. I agree with you, this isn't about the people of Israel, its about the government and its about the U.S, Britain and Germany who fully support that government.

[DemRed]

I have to wonder... who on here supported the apartheid in South Africa?

[Oliver_W]

I don't blame the Israeli people for this.
They have no say in what the government does.
You do realise it was literally Israeli citizens who attacked the food trucks in the videos provided? Not the government?

71% of Palestinians polled by whom and using what methodology.

If they accurately polled women and children I will eat my own hat and yours Parmy.
Tbh I'm surprised it's as low as 71%, as Hamas aren't exactly known for their tolerance of dissenting voices. Who knows who the pollsters really are? Pretty brave of anyone to openly say anything negative about Hamas, let alone 29% lf those polled.

[Beso]

If the Palestinian older population had any love in their souls, the ones that can make decisions would do anything within their power to stop their children going through what they went through in childhood. Unfortunatly they just seem to ramp things up and order up what's being served to them atm, by ordering oct 7th, which is supported by what will be 80 percent of the population once you take the 5 percent off for the Christians and others. You reep what you sow I'm afraid.

[The Slim Reaper]

"the starving babies posts"

[user104658]

It would be the most significant move to make

I wonder why hamas Palestine won't

Have you any idea?

Because they naively still believe that holding Israeli hostages might stop the IDF from carpet bombing them? (It won't, but maybe they're still holding onto that vague hope).

Releasing them wouldn't change anything either, as you well know.

[user104658]

Why don't you? You're the one posting the starving babies posts. I've drawn a comparison and asked why it's only bad when Israel is involved. I already know the answer, by the way.

Is your supposed known answer "cos they're Jewish" and as a follow up, if it is that, are you literally 12 years old?

[Liam-]

It’s almost like they want to wipe out the Palestinians and take their land for themselves

https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1790402969415950576?s=46&t=-V1HH0UJyce-tDsLnymASQ

[user104658]

It’s almost like they want to wipe out the Palestinians and take their land for themselves

https://twitter.com/haaretzcom/status/1790402969415950576?s=46&t=-V1HH0UJyce-tDsLnymASQ

You'd think they'd at least want to wait for the literal dust to settle.

I think ultimately worth remembering though: All wars are about land and/or resources. All of them, throughout all of history. Name a war and the supposed justification, and very little digging will show that it was about land or resources. The rest is just sauce for public consumption... governments are not moral and do not care about collateral damage in any meaningful way other than financial.

To use a somewhat-linked example, people like to get poetic about the heroic allies in WW2 valiantly stepping in to stop Nazi atrocities. And undoubtedly, stepping in and winning the war did stop many atrocities. And I'm 100% sure many of the people fighting that war were fully invested in fighting to that end. But the uncomfortable political reality? If Nazi Germany had not been expansionist in their ambitions, we wouldn't have done a thing. Not one thing. Britain did not enter WW2 because the Nazis were bad. We entered because they invaded Poland and Britain started to become concerned about sovereignty. Same reason other Middle Eastern nations are concerned about Israel. Same reason Ukraine should be worried about Russia, but in turn same reason Russia is concerned about NATO expansion. It's all the same ****.

[Livia]

Is your supposed known answer "cos they're Jewish" and as a follow up, if it is that, are you literally 12 years old?

You say Jewish. I say Israeli. And therein lies the problem.

And no, I'm not even figuratively 12 years old.

[user104658]

You say Jewish. I say Israeli. And therein lies the problem.

And no, I'm not even figuratively 12 years old.

I said Jewish knowingly and specifically because I'm well aware that therein lies the problem - a Catch 22 problem that existed long before this conflict. Criticism of the Israeli government and policy is seen as (or disingenuously accused of being) antisemitic criticism of or dislike of Jewish people in general, when it is nothing of the sort. Viewing any world government as being emblematic of a group in any arbitrary way (so whether you're defining "Jewish" as a religious belief system or an ethnicity) and thus dismissing any criticism of that political power as xenophobic, is a HUGE problem.

I certainly don't conflate Israel and Judaism, but it's always been a standard thing to do.

FWIW I imagine the political elite of Israel are entirely godless and using it simply as a carrot & stick in the same way that the political elite has since the dawn of civilisation.

[bots]

I said Jewish knowingly and specifically because I'm well aware that therein lies the problem - a Catch 22 problem that existed long before this conflict. Criticism of the Israeli government and policy is seen as (or disingenuously accused of being) antisemitic criticism of or dislike of Jewish people in general, when it is nothing of the sort. Viewing any world government as being emblematic of a group in any arbitrary way (so whether you're defining "Jewish" as a religious belief system or an ethnicity) and thus dismissing any criticism of that political power as xenophobic, is a HUGE problem.

I certainly don't conflate Israel and Judaism, but it's always been a standard thing to do.

FWIW I imagine the political elite of Israel are entirely godless and using it simply as a carrot & stick in the same way that the political elite has since the dawn of civilisation.

the problem is that you desperately have to qualify your words, you have done that so often in this thread

[user104658]

the problem is that you desperately have to qualify your words, you have done that so often in this thread

I don't particularly think it's my fault or problem that I've had to ELI5 things to people who are failing to grasp (or more often deliberately misrepresenting) things that shouldn't be particularly difficult to understand. But I'm increasingly understanding that expecting anything more than a sad scrabble around the bottom of the intellectual barrel from threads on here is a long-dead pipe dream.

[Cherie]

Coming back to the question you posed earlier in the thread SB and Palestinians rejoicing after the Oct 7th attacks did you not see videos of the cheering in the streets when they paraded that German girl half dead through the streets?

[user104658]

Coming back to the question you posed earlier in the thread SB and Palestinians rejoicing after the Oct 7th attacks did you not see videos of the cheering in the streets when they paraded that German girl half dead through the streets?

I don't believe I questioned there being celebratory videos of Palestinians; I did query how many of those were women and children.

The other obvious thing to point out is that "many = most" is a very commonly made error. "Lots of people were there celebrating" doesn't indicate that the majority of people agree. Lots of people go to Wimbledon; it would be daft to conclude from that that most people are tennis fans. And, of course, no one would conclude that, because these "misunderstandings" only ever seem to apply to divisive issues.

[Liam-]

So the videos of Israelis celebrating bombs being dropped on Gaza, killing innocents, including children, does that make them terrorists or terrorist sympathisers? What’s good for the goose and all that

[Vanessa]

So the videos of Israelis celebrating bombs being dropped on Gaza, killing innocents, including children, does that make them terrorists or terrorist sympathisers? What’s good for the goose and all that
It's so heartbreaking. I can't bear it!

[Oliver_W]

So the videos of Israelis celebrating bombs being dropped on Gaza, killing innocents,

Which videos?

If they exist, it makes the participants the same as those doing similar in Palestine.

[Cherie]

So the videos of Israelis celebrating bombs being dropped on Gaza, killing innocents, including children, does that make them terrorists or terrorist sympathisers? What’s good for the goose and all that

Nobody said otherwise :shrug: you need to come to terms with the fact that there are good and bad people on both sides, its not goodies versus baddies like come cartoon

[user104658]

Nobody said otherwise :shrug: you need to come to terms with the fact that there are good and bad people on both sides, its not goodies versus baddies like come cartoon

I totally agree with this but I have to say Cherie, I rarely if ever see you saying this to the anti-muslim pro-Israel members, when there are multiple examples of those members doing the exact same as you describe on this very thread. Some daily. In multiple threads.

[DemRed]

Which videos?

If they exist, it makes the participants the same as those doing similar in Palestine.

If they exist? I have to ask, do you have internet?

[Oliver_W]

If they exist? I have to ask, do you have internet?

I don't care enough to verify their existence. I'll take Liam's word that some (horrible) people celebrated their country attacking another country, and that it was caught on video.

[DemRed]

FWIW I imagine the political elite of Israel are entirely godless and using it simply as a carrot & stick in the same way that the political elite has since the dawn of civilisation.

The war on words is a full time job for the Israeli government, the Lobby and their ilk. Conversations and debate have been radically suppressed with sickening overreach up until now.
We should all have critical friends. It makes life so much more interesting.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The war on words is a full time job for the Israeli government, the Lobby and their ilk.

unlike the Terrorist Hamas "government" and their far left useful idiots?

:joker:

[DemRed]

Far Left... Give your head a wobble.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Far Left... Give your head a wobble.

last time I checked the Marxist masked mobs that support palestine/hamas/terrorism are far left

:shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

This isn’t just Netanyahu’s opinion.

Palestinians must not be allowed to treat October 7 as their Independence Day.
The world must not send them the message that gang rape works. They must
not look back at 10/7 as a moment that propelled their cause forward.

https://x.com/EylonALevy/status/1790829835750678764

[Beso]

Nobody said otherwise :shrug: you need to come to terms with the fact that there are good and bad people on both sides, its not goodies versus baddies like come cartoon

We should drop a big cartoon bomb on all the baddies afte we rescue all the goodies

[DemRed]

last time I checked the Marxist masked mobs that support palestine/hamas/terrorism are far left

:shrug:

No, that's your skewed view of people. That's like saying, all those who support Israel are Far Right. I'm not sure why you even think that way.

For me personally it is political but its also about having empathy with the indigenous people of Palestine who have had to live for decades with an oppressive military apartheid. I see the Israel government as a racist criminal project that has got away with crimes against humanity for many years.

I didn't support the South African apartheid... the colonialists who repressed and subjugated the Aborigines and the American Indians either.... this is no different.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No, that's your skewed view of people. That's like saying, all those who support Israel are Far Right. I'm not sure why you even think that way.

For me personally it is political but its also about having empathy with the indigenous people of Palestine who have had to live for decades with an oppressive military apartheid. I see the Israel government as a racist criminal project that has got away with crimes against humanity for many years.

I didn't support the South African apartheid... the colonialists who repressed and subjugated the Aborigines and the American Indians either.... this is no different.

f me you literally have been brainwashed by social media like a 1st year uni student with a keffiyeh and a face mask plus a years sub to Antifa Whatsapp

:joker:

[Beso]

The far left are hijacking all these marches for Palestine for their own agenda. You can see the same faces at the trans proteststs that are still going on. It's as though they want civil war.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The far left are hijacking all these marches for Palestine for their own agenda. You can see the same faces at the trans proteststs that are still going on. It's as though they want civil war.

mass-produced marxist placards and when interviewed they have no idea what they mean

:laugh:

[DemRed]

f me you literally have been brainwashed by social media like a 1st year uni student with a keffiyeh and a face mask plus a years sub to Antifa Whatsapp

:joker:

Nice try. You remind me of wee tube.:joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Nice try. You remind me of wee tube.:joker:

no I'm serious

you have

you sound like Greta

:umm2:

[Cherie]

I totally agree with this but I have to say Cherie, I rarely if ever see you saying this to the anti-muslim pro-Israel members, when there are multiple examples of those members doing the exact same as you describe on this very thread. Some daily. In multiple threads.

I love how you try to paint me as Islamaphobic, it was the good for the goose comment that prompted my post

[Crimson Dynamo]

I love how you try to paint me as Islamaphobic, it was the sauce for goose comment that prompted my post

literally him Glen and Liam accuse members if some type of phobia every day on here

and I mean every day to try and "win" some culture war imaginary argument

:umm2:

[Cherie]

literally him Glen and Liam accuse members if some type of phobia every day on here

and I mean every day to try and "win" some culture war imaginary argument

:umm2:

Honestly they can call me what they want, I have had many muslim friends, colleagues and neighbours, some good some bad just the same as any other culture ... ...this nonsense of being afraid of brown people is from TikTok or some other stupid platform

[Crimson Dynamo]

Honestly they can call me what they want, I have had many muslim friends, colleagues and neighbours, some good some bad just the same as any other culture ... ...this nonsense of being afraid of brown people is from TikTok or some other stupid platform

yep its embarrassing for sure

[user104658]

I love how you try to paint me as Islamaphobic, it was the good for the goose comment that prompted my post

I don't think YOU are Islamophobic, I think there are people you happen to like on here who are xenophobic so you won't call them out in the same way you'll call out the people you like less. I understand why to be fair - they don't half get huffy.

[DemRed]

no I'm serious

you have

you sound like Greta

:umm2:

Never heard Greta talk about the war between Palestine and Israel. Thought she was only bothered about the hoax global warming.

[user104658]

Never heard Greta talk about the war between Palestine and Israel. Thought she was only bothered about the hoax global warming.

You'll confuse him by being pro-palestine and anti-greta DemRed, for someone who insists that culture wars are "imaginary" you won't find many people who embody "us vs them" more than LT. The amateur meteorologist in him is resisting Flat Earther ideology so far but... Give him a few more years...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Never heard Greta talk about the war between Palestine and Israel. Thought she was only bothered about the hoax global warming.

no she has done a complete 180 and is now fully on the woke mind virus pro palestine/hamas grift train

zFz7bGwZg6o

[arista]

IDF: 5 of their Soldiers were killed in Friendly Fire
A tank fired on the building they were in.


CNN HD Live from Jerusalem.


Tragic

[Crimson Dynamo]

"Just sat by the river today having a quick pint with my Mrs and I was in deep
thought thinking about the children of Gaza.

I was overwhelmed with emotion and I just started crying, I just wanna save
them all and I know I can’t and it kills me.

I hope the people of Gaza know they are not forgotten about and there is a lot
of love and support from around the world.

None of us are truly free until Palestine is free"

https://x.com/JonnyFX1/status/1791469680013554099


Absolute headcase :umm2:

Bet he didnt cry on the 7th Ocober...

[arista]

[Spain blocks ship carrying weapons to Israel from docking

‘The Middle East does not need more weapons,
it needs more peace,’ said
Spanish Foreign Minister José Manuel Albares]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/05/17/spain-blocks-ship-carrying-weapons-israel-gaza-war/


The Ship had to move on.


Ref: WION HD Gravitas Live Part 1
SkyHD 519

[Crimson Dynamo]

Amit Buskila, 28, was kidnapped from the Nova Festival on October 7th.

Her family have spent the last 223 days praying for her safe return.

Today her body was found decomposing in Rafah.

Hamas executed her on the day of her kidnapping and held her body hostage ever since.

Her body alongside the body of Shani Louk and Itzik Gelerenter have been
recovered today by IDF forces in Gaza.

All the scumbags in that car in the picture have been killed by the IDF thankfully

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNysiX6W4AARuyi?format=jpg&name=small

https://x.com/OliLondonTV/status/1791503811187487097

[bots]

this is exactly why hamas have refused to hand back hostages. Most if not all are probably already dead, and they are just lying to try and keep some leverage

[Vanessa]

Amit Buskila, 28, was kidnapped from the Nova Festival on October 7th.

Her family have spent the last 223 days praying for her safe return.

Today her body was found decomposing in
Rafah.

Hamas executed her on the day of her kidnapping and held her body hostage ever since.

Her body alongside the body of Shani Louk and Itzik Gelerenter have been

recovered today by IDF forces in Gaza.

All the scumbags in that car in the picture have been killed by the IDF thankfully

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNysiX6W4AARuyi?
format=jpg&name=small


https://x.com/OliLondonTV/status/1791503811187487097
That's really awful.
This war just keeps getting worse and worse....

[Beso]

I dread to think........

[DemRed]

Amit Buskila, 28, was kidnapped from the Nova Festival on October 7th.

Her family have spent the last 223 days praying for her safe return.

Today her body was found decomposing in Rafah.

Hamas executed her on the day of her kidnapping and held her body hostage ever since.

Her body alongside the body of Shani Louk and Itzik Gelerenter have been
recovered today by IDF forces in Gaza.

All the scumbags in that car in the picture have been killed by the IDF thankfully

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNysiX6W4AARuyi?format=jpg&name=small

https://x.com/OliLondonTV/status/1791503811187487097

They found a piece of her skull on the road leading from the festival back to Gaza on October 30th they told her parents that she wasn’t alive because there’s no way she could be alive without that part of her skull. Her mom came out and talked about it to the BBC.
The men holding her and the truck she was in was also blown up.
Google is your friend.

[Livia]

Not a word of condemnation...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not a word of condemnation...

Sickening

[Cherie]

They found a piece of her skull on the road leading from the festival back to Gaza on October 30th they told her parents that she wasn’t alive because there’s no way she could be alive without that part of her skull. Her mom came out and talked about it to the BBC.
The men holding her and the truck she was in was also blown up.
Google is your friend.

how callous can you get... she was the girl who was paraded through the streets on the back of a truck unconscious and half naked ...

[arista]

[Amit Buskila, 28, was kidnapped from the
Nova Festival on October 7th.

Her family have spent the last 223 days
praying for her safe return.
Today her body was found
decomposing in Rafah.]


Tragic
Evil Hamas.

[DemRed]

Not a word of condemnation...

Go and look back through the thread. I very much condemned what happened on Oct 7th.

What about condemnation from yourself or Strumpet for all the innocents killed in Gaza?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Go and look back through the thread. I very much condemned what happened on Oct 7th.

What about condemnation from yourself or Strumpet for all the innocents killed in Gaza?

I condemn Hamas for killing them

[Crimson Dynamo]

ltQQKL8HRWg

[Crimson Dynamo]

The bodies of 4 Israelis kidnapped on October 7th have been recovered in the last 48 hours.

• Shani Louk, 22

• Amit Buskila, 28

• Itzhak Gelerenter, 53

• Ron Benjamin, 53

The bodies were uncovered hidden in the tunnels of Rafah.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GN4Yr6DWQAADslW?format=jpg&name=360x360https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GN4Yr57XwAABZ8E?format=jpg&name=360x360
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GN4Yr6AXgAEzlPF?format=jpg&name=360x360https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GN4Yr54X0AAH6im?format=jpg&name=360x360

[DemRed]

I condemn Hamas for killing them

Who is them?

[Livia]

Who the **** do you think?

[user104658]

What about condemnation from yourself or Strumpet for all the innocents killed in Gaza?

I condemn Hamas for killing them

Who is them?

Who the **** do you think?

I'm going to assume LT meant "the Israelis on Oct 7th" because from previous observation I have strong doubts that he gives enough of a toss about Palestinian Muslims (or any Muslim) to condemn anyone for killing them, whether that be IDF missiles, starvation or supposed Hamas false-flags. Certainly there are plenty of people who feel equally terrible for any innocent individual caught up in any part of this violence. My impression of LT's stance is -- in simplest form -- that he believes Palestine " ****ed around and found out" thus Palestinian children are undeserving of sympathy, or even really any vague consideration.

I'm willing to hear otherwise of course.

[user104658]

If the question is "how many deaths of civilians in Gaza will serve as appropriate retribution for the horrific events of Oct 7th" I believe the accepted answer by certain parties appears to be "there is no upper limit".

Or let's face it... perhaps simply "All of them".

[Livia]

TS having a conversation with himself trying desperately to make his points make others look callous and stupid.

[user104658]

TS having a conversation with himself trying desperately to make his points make others look callous and stupid.

In what way was I having a conversation with myself? Is it because I made two posts in a row? Bit of a leap there but OK :joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

this short video from 5 months ago sums the whole shebang perfectly

KP-CRXROorw

[DemRed]

8ltoszWsf5o

[DemRed]

I'm going to assume LT meant "the Israelis on Oct 7th" because from previous observation I have strong doubts that he gives enough of a toss about Palestinian Muslims (or any Muslim) to condemn anyone for killing them, whether that be IDF missiles, starvation or supposed Hamas false-flags. Certainly there are plenty of people who feel equally terrible for any innocent individual caught up in any part of this violence. My impression of LT's stance is -- in simplest form -- that he believes Palestine " ****ed around and found out" thus Palestinian children are undeserving of sympathy, or even really any vague consideration.

I'm willing to hear otherwise of course.

Totally agree TS,

[Beso]

The blame for Palestinian deaths lies with hamas..how on earth do people expect israel to stop now whilst hamas still remains..all that happens there is hamas reforms and begins their evil intent again..wipe the ****ers out..

[user104658]

The blame for Palestinian deaths lies with hamas..how on earth do people expect israel to stop now whilst hamas still remains..all that happens there is hamas reforms and begins their evil intent again..wipe the ****ers out..

Because the world is full of terrorists and eliminating terrorism and terrorist cells has never been (and cannot be) justification for limitless levels of collateral damage and civilian death.

It is KNOWN that there are active terrorist cells within every major city in the UK... so unless you want to start carpet-bombing Glasgow and Liverpool with Napalm then you really need to rethink the "how can they stop until all are wiped out?" thinking.

Of course, everyone understands that it would be utter madness to blow up a UK housing estate based on intelligence that a couple of the houses contain terrorists. It's only considered to be justified because it's "there" not "here" - it's that simple.

Widescale violence against civilian populations increases terrorist activity. It always has, it always will, it HELPS them recruit, western destruction in the middle east was what created ISIS. In order for it to have any other effect, the destruction needs to be total. 100%. There's a name for that. It's genocide.

[Beso]

Because the world is full of terrorists and eliminating terrorism and terrorist cells has never been (and cannot be) justification for limitless levels of collateral damage and civilian death.

It is KNOWN that there are active terrorist cells within every major city in the UK... so unless you want to start carpet-bombing Glasgow and Liverpool with Napalm then you really need to rethink the "how can they stop until all are wiped out?" thinking.

Of course, everyone understands that it would be utter madness to blow up a UK housing estate based on intelligence that a couple of the houses contain terrorists. It's only considered to be justified because it's "there" not "here" - it's that simple.

Widescale violence against civilian populations increases terrorist activity. It always has, it always will, it HELPS them recruit, western destruction in the middle east was what created ISIS. In order for it to have any other effect, the destruction needs to be total. 100%. There's a name for that. It's genocide.




We dont see any bombing from Ireland and the IRA now..we didnt bomb them to smithereens, did we!

Should israel stop and allow hamas to regroup? Or should they blitz what's left of their battalions, so they can safely weed out what's left.

[Livia]

No terrorist cell in any other country continually fire rockets into a neighbouring country with the intention of killing people. Pre 7th October Hamas would fire hundreds of rockets, sometimes from schools and hospitals. The only reason more Israelis weren't killed was the use of the Iron Dome.

[user104658]

We dont see any bombing from Ireland and the IRA now..

No, we don't.

we didnt bomb them to smithereens, did we!

No, we didn't.

If you understand this, then you already know the answer here?

[Livia]

Because TS has the answer. Naturally.

[user104658]

No terrorist cell in any other country continually fire rockets into a neighbouring country with the intention of killing people. Pre 7th October Hamas would fire hundreds of rockets, sometimes from schools and hospitals. The only reason more Israelis weren't killed was the use of the Iron Dome.

Circumstantial morality isn't morality.

[user104658]

Because TS has the answer. Naturally.

"TS" has the answer? Are you disputing that the troubles were addressed via politics and negotiation rather than through bombing campaigns? It's not me having the answer it's just historical fact. I'm sorry that "We didn't obliterate Belfast" is an inconvenient truth but claiming that it's just "TS's answer :idc: " isn't going to change it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOFKBcjXsAAKlGY?format=jpg&name=small

ELIMINATED : Qassem Saqlawi, Commander of the Rocket and Missile Array in
Hezbollah’s Coastal Sector.

Eliminated by an IAF aircraft, Saqlawi was responsible for planning and
executing rocket attacks and anti-tank launches toward Israel from the coastal
sector in Lebanon.

https://x.com/IDF/status/1792795520307785930

[Livia]

"TS" has the answer? Are you disputing that the troubles were addressed via politics and negotiation rather than through bombing campaigns? It's not me having the answer it's just historical fact. I'm sorry that "We didn't obliterate Belfast" is an inconvenient truth but claiming that it's just "TS's answer :idc: " isn't going to change it.

No, I'm disputing that you have the answers you think you do. Not just to this subject but to every subject.

[user104658]

No, I'm disputing that you have the answers you think you do. Not just to this subject but to every subject.

Again fundamentally misunderstanding the purpose of a debates forum but carry on Livia this is nothing new - I know you don't like my opinions, I don't care any more than I did yesterday, last month or last year, and you not liking them isn't going to stop me posting them tomorrow any more than it did today. So... enjoy or stick me back on block I guess :hee:

https://media1.tenor.com/images/acdbd0aa97a7d1a92f3f4bfb0810d889/tenor.gif

[Beso]

"TS" has the answer? Are you disputing that the troubles were addressed via politics and negotiation rather than through bombing campaigns? It's not me having the answer it's just historical fact. I'm sorry that "We didn't obliterate Belfast" is an inconvenient truth but claiming that it's just "TS's answer :idc: " isn't going to change it.

Yes it worked there, but we've had more than 80 years of trying it in gazza and things have just gotten worse rather than better...I think oct 7th was the final straw for israel..dont you?

[user104658]

Yes it worked there, but we've had more than 80 years of trying it in gazza and things have just gotten worse rather than better...I think oct 7th was the final straw for israel..dont you?

You'd be hard-pressed to convince me that there have been any meaningful attempts at negotiation when it comes to Israel/Palestine -- not with anything other than token concessions from Israel or the West. It's also true though that there aren't many opportunities for diplomatic solutions that Palestinians would accept either.

But that's how these things go, it takes the right people on the right day, none of it changes the simple fact that ultimately the haphazard destruction of Gaza is going to make Israel less safe in the Middle East, not more safe, and will in the longer term cause a surge in terrorist activity, not a reduction. To put it in the simplest terms - parents whose kids school got bombed will strap bombs to their chests. Kids who saw their parents blown apart at 5 years old will be waving a gun by 15. That's ALWAYS been the case, it's woven into the very basics of what terrorism and extremism is at the very core.

I think Oct 7th was the final straw for Israel but I also thing it was a go-for-broke from Hamas. They knew what the response would be. They obviously also know they cannot actually go to war with the IDF. So why do you think they did it?

[Beso]

Pleasure TS, pure pleasure. Why else would you cut of children's hands to take home, to show everyone how brave you were?

[user104658]

Pleasure TS, pure pleasure. Why else would you cut of children's hands to take home, to show everyone how brave you were?

Inherent evil doesn't exist and yet people gleefully commit evil acts - the fact that some of the terrorists take pleasure in committing atrocities is a separate issue. You'll find examples of cruelty and pleasure in killing in every army in the world, the real difference is only that a terrorist organisation is not an organised military and thus there's no real command structure or process of discipline to keep that (somewhat) in check. What do you think would happen if, during an armed conflict, the US command structure suddenly said "Actually you know what troops? Do whatever the hell you want, no consequences :)".

Human nature hasn't changed throughout history and it certainly doesn't differ by region.

[Beso]

You specifically asked about hamas, and I gave you a reason why they would do it..I would also argue Hamas's a military, as it has battalions and leaders etc..

[Crimson Dynamo]

Food Aid to Gaza Is Getting Stolen as Fast as It Can Be Delivered

On the menu today: The fast-moving news cycle is a clumsy administration’s
best friend. This weekend, the Biden administration got what it wanted when it
announced the construction of a U.S.-taxpayer-funded pier in the Gaza Strip —
happy headlines about the U.S. military starting to deliver aid to the
Palestinians, many of whom really are desperate. And in what probably counts
as a small miracle, Hamas hasn’t attempted to bomb or otherwise attack the
pier yet. But there’s a little catch, in that the food aid is getting stolen before it
can reach the World Food Program warehouse . . . just eight miles away. Once
the food aid leaves the pier, the United Nations, international partners, and the
“humanitarian community” oversee getting the aid to those who need it most.
And they’re getting robbed, hijacked, and mugged.

https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/food-aid-to-gaza-is-getting-stolen-as-fast-as-it-can-be-delivered/

[arista]

Yes LT

they must buy it from Hamas

[user104658]

Food Aid to Gaza Is Getting Stolen as Fast as It Can Be Delivered

On the menu today: The fast-moving news cycle is a clumsy administration’s
best friend. This weekend, the Biden administration got what it wanted when it
announced the construction of a U.S.-taxpayer-funded pier in the Gaza Strip —
happy headlines about the U.S. military starting to deliver aid to the
Palestinians, many of whom really are desperate. And in what probably counts
as a small miracle, Hamas hasn’t attempted to bomb or otherwise attack the
pier yet. But there’s a little catch, in that the food aid is getting stolen before it
can reach the World Food Program warehouse . . . just eight miles away. Once
the food aid leaves the pier, the United Nations, international partners, and the
“humanitarian community” oversee getting the aid to those who need it most.
And they’re getting robbed, hijacked, and mugged.

https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/food-aid-to-gaza-is-getting-stolen-as-fast-as-it-can-be-delivered/

Funnily enough, starving people start getting quite violent when it comes to food.

Heck, I saw a minor scuffle break out at Co op over a loaf of Warburtons when "the beast from the east" snowstorm was disrupting bread trucks.

And a full on riot for Covid toilet roll.

[DemRed]

No terrorist cell in any other country continually fire rockets into a neighbouring country with the intention of killing people. Pre 7th October Hamas would fire hundreds of rockets, sometimes from schools and hospitals. The only reason more Israelis weren't killed was the use of the Iron Dome.

And no country apart from Israel, would arm civilians and give them IDF protection whilst they went and raided and confiscated Palestinian homes, land, orchards and sheep on the West Bank. Since the invasion of Gaza, Shin Bet has made a killing moving Palestinians out of their farms.

[Beso]

And no country apart from Israel, would arm civilians and give them IDF protection whilst they went and raided and confiscated Palestinian homes, land, orchards and sheep on the West Bank. Since the invasion of Gaza, Shin Bet has made a killing moving Palestinians out of their farms.

I wonder how much of a killing hamas made on oct 7th when it removed Israeli farmers from their homes.

[Beso]

About 4, 9/11's worth was it not...

[DemRed]

I wonder how much of a killing hamas made on oct 7th when it removed Israeli farmers from their homes.

This all started long before Oct 7th.

[Crimson Dynamo]

This all started long before Oct 7th.

It didn't really help tho

Did it..?

:skull:

[user104658]

About 4, 9/11's worth was it not...

764 civilian deaths on Oct 7th and 9/11 was about 3000 so unless you meant 1/4 rather than 4x, this isn't really close to accurate.

[Crimson Dynamo]

764 civilian deaths on Oct 7th and 9/11 was about 3000 so unless you meant 1/4 rather than 4x, this isn't really close to accurate.

The final death toll from the attack is now thought to be 695 Israeli civilians, including 36 children, as well as 373 security forces and 71 foreigners, giving a total of 1,139.

[Beso]

This all started long before Oct 7th.

Yes, many many Palestinian farmers sold their land to the jewish settlers.

[Beso]

This is a good interview with Netanyahu.

https://youtu.be/X-sICNOmqvo?si=_6W_-7iMleHLKW9E

[Crimson Dynamo]

BBC’s Gaza coverage has sunk to new lows

Impartiality breaches have occurred so often at its Arabic channel that they almost look deliberate


The BBC’s royal charter sets out five “public purposes”, the very first of which is a commitment to impartiality. Yet the Israel-Hamas war has seen the BBC fail to deliver on this crucial test on more occasions than can be explained away as “errors” or bad luck.

A source of repeated issues over impartiality is BBC Arabic. Since the October 7 terrorist attacks on Israel, BBC Arabic has been forced to make 80 corrections to its reporting. Something is going badly wrong. Mistakes don’t happen 80 times.
The failures of impartiality have included BBC reporters describing Hamas terrorists as “the resistance”, as well as labelling attacks which targeted and killed civilians as “resistance operations”. It’s the language you would hear from a Hamas spokesman.

The corporation was forced to remove an episode of the BBC Arabic programme Trending, which questioned whether the Kfar Aza kibbutz massacre on October 7 actually happened. This plays into an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory that seeks to undermine the terrible truth of what happened that day. How was a video of that nature produced and distributed by the BBC in the first place? How is it possible that editorial standards at BBC Arabic had fallen so low that this was seen as legitimate reporting?

There is plenty more. Last month a BBC Arabic presenter asked an Egyptian guest to apologise for expressing sympathy for Israel. One BBC Arabic journalist interviewed a Palestinian woman about her life amid the conflict but decided it was not relevant to ask her directly about the time she stabbed an Israeli neighbour in front of her children.

There is no sign that this blatant lack of impartiality at BBC Arabic will be dealt with any time soon by senior management. Yet this is not even the worst of it. The BBC continues to employ people who actually celebrated the October 7 terrorist attacks.

Sally Nabil, a BBC Arabic correspondent, “liked” a number of tweets which appeared to legitimise the targeting of Jewish civilians, including tweets which called the October 7 atrocities “a morning of hope”. She also “liked” a comment on a video which showed footage of jeeps loaded with Jewish bodies and kidnapped civilians. Ms Nabil is still employed by the BBC.

Another BBC Arabic journalist, Sanaa Khouri, reposted and liked tweets appearing to support the massacres, including one about celebratory sweets being distributed in Lebanon in its aftermath. The Beirut-based correspondent also tweeted in the wake of the attacks: “Israel’s prestige is crying in the corner”. Some BBC employees have even gone as far as mocking civilians who were kidnapped by Hamas. BBC executive producer Mahmoud Sheleib took part in a Twitter conversation shortly after October 7 in which he appeared to joke about a woman whose grandmother was abducted by the terrorist group.

The BBC is employing people who celebrated the worst massacre of Jewish people since the Holocaust. This means that our licence fees are paying the wages of people who celebrated the rape and slaughter of men, women and children. How can this be possible? Why should we accept it? If any other publicly funded organisation supported terrorist sympathisers, the outcry would be enormous. Yet the BBC seems to be impervious to its problems, unwilling to recognise and address the management failures that are poisoning one of Britain’s great institutions.

When breaches of impartiality are so egregious that they extend to the exaltation of a massacre, something has gone very wrong with the public broadcaster. But these scandals are made so much worse when the organisation fails to deal effectively with the problem.

Indeed, far from publicly recognising the scale of this issue, the BBC has gone out of its way to support and endorse its Arabic service. Director-general Tim Davie has recently stated his admiration for BBC Arabic, saying that the service was something “we should be very proud of”.

On taking the role of director-general, Davie chose to put impartiality at the heart of his tenure, describing it as his “number one priority”. Given the actions of BBC Arabic over the past seven months, it now seems clear that, unfortunately, he has failed in his mission in the most shameful way possible.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/21/bbc-arabic-gaza-israel-hamas-war-media-impartiality/

[DemRed]

It didn't really help tho

Did it..?

:skull:

The West Bank is not run by Hamas and is not Gaza :conf:

[Crimson Dynamo]

" Hamas welcomes move by Spain, Ireland and Norway to recognize Palestinian
statehood - 'an important step on the path of affirming our right to our land
and independent Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital'


https://x.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1793207030896795653

https://www.usnews.com/object/image/0000018b-80ed-dfc6-a3af-c0ff635a0000/tag%3Areuters.com%2C2023%3Anewsml_LYNXMPEJ9T0HC%3A 12023-10-30T141022Z_1_LYNXMPEJ9T0HC_RTROPTP_3_ISRAEL-PALESTINIANS.JPG?update-time=1698675022000&size=responsive640

[Cherie]

The families of the 3 female conscript soldiers who were abducted on 7th October have released the full video of their abduction, not seen it and not sure I would want to

[The Slim Reaper]

1793218952505463002

[Crimson Dynamo]

Well if the Met Police are on the case..

:laugh2:

[bots]

" Hamas welcomes move by Spain, Ireland and Norway to recognize Palestinian
statehood - 'an important step on the path of affirming our right to our land
and independent Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital'


https://x.com/i24NEWS_EN/status/1793207030896795653

https://www.usnews.com/object/image/0000018b-80ed-dfc6-a3af-c0ff635a0000/tag%3Areuters.com%2C2023%3Anewsml_LYNXMPEJ9T0HC%3A 12023-10-30T141022Z_1_LYNXMPEJ9T0HC_RTROPTP_3_ISRAEL-PALESTINIANS.JPG?update-time=1698675022000&size=responsive640

ao i guess spain won't mind if Gibraltar makes Madrid it's capital

[Crimson Dynamo]

UPDATE: I just finished an extended world exclusive interview with Israel’s President, Isaac Herzog
It will premiere on our ⁦
@PiersUncensored
⁩ YouTube channel at 8pm. It’s explosive….

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOMMAETXsAAHIVg?format=jpg&name=small

[user104658]

ao i guess spain won't mind if Gibraltar makes Madrid it's capital

I'm sure you know that this situation isn't even vaguely comparable?

The United Kingdom’s position on the status of Jerusalem is clear and long-standing: it should be determined in a negotiated settlement between the Israelis and the Palestinians. The final determination of Jerusalem must ensure that the holy city is a shared capital of Israel and a Palestinian state

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-united-kingdoms-position-on-the-status-of-jerusalem-is-clear-and-long-standing

I shall await someone coming along to tell me that gov.uk is a bad source of woke news fakery :idc:

[arista]

Sad news

IDF have 3 dead hostages
found

SkyNewsHD


One born in Mexico

[Crimson Dynamo]

Sad news

IDF have 3 dead hostages
found

SkyNewsHD


One born in Mexico

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOVwqHQXYAAMXiU?format=jpg&name=small

The body of Shani Louk’s boyfriend has been recovered in Gaza.

Orion Hernandez Radoux, a French-Mexican dual national, was killed alongside his girlfriend during the Nova Festival attack, where 364 people lost their lives.

His body was among 3 recovered earlier today alongside Michel Nisenbaum, 59 and Hanan Yablonka, 42.

The recovery of the bodies comes as a blow to their families, who had held out hope they were still alive.

Source: Telegraph

[arista]

BBC News Text :[The paper leads with news from
the UN's top International Court of Justice
which ruled Israel must immediately
halt its military offensive in Rafah.
Daily Star: Snorers can curb habit by learning
to play didgeridoo, top medic claims]


https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/fa4a/live/f154d6d0-1a11-11ef-baa7-25d483663b8e.jpg.webp

[Livia]

I expect Israel will take as much notice as Sudan or Syria would if they were ordered to stop.

[arista]

I expect Israel will take as much notice as Sudan or Syria would if they were ordered to stop.


Good Points Livia

[user104658]

I expect Israel will take as much notice as Sudan or Syria would if they were ordered to stop.

Not really a glowing endorsement of Israel if true?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not really a glowing endorsement of Israel if true?

try any country at war against an enemy dedicated to wiping them out to the last child

:facepalm:

[user104658]

try any country at war against an enemy dedicated to wiping them out to the last child

:facepalm:

If every country had the mantra of "other people will happily commit war crimes, so I'm going to do it too!" we'd be in quite a bit of trouble quite quickly wouldn't we?

Or even if you bring it down to the individual level. "Other people do crimes so..." is not a justification for committing a crime.

[DemRed]

The Israeli government has every intention of wiping the Palestinians out of Gaza and the West Bank. It's just more tricky when the world is watching. :facepalm:

[Crimson Dynamo]

The Israeli government has every intention of wiping Hamas murderers out of Gaza and the West Bank.

good

fixed

:thumbs:

[Denver]

Isreal doesn't even exist they have no claim to that land and Isreal actually is only entitled to a small part of a European country they are from

[bots]

More antisemitic nonsense

[DemRed]

More antisemitic nonsense

There you go, weaponizing something that is far from antisemitic, whilst not berating certain people who are pleased the Muslims are being wiped out

[Crimson Dynamo]

spotted in London

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOgSwnAWAAABCix?format=jpg&name=small

[Oliver_W]

Isreal doesn't even exist

Israel literally exists ...

[Livia]

Isreal doesn't even exist they have no claim to that land and Isreal actually is only entitled to a small part of a European country they are from

Israel existed thousands of years ago and belonged for the Jews. Palestine is a derogatory name given to Israel when they occupied it 2000 years ago, hundreds of years before Islam started.

You sound like you really hate those Jews...

[Livia]

There you go, weaponizing something that is far from antisemitic, whilst not berating certain people who are pleased the Muslims are being wiped out

You can't tell other people what they find anti-Semitic.

[Cherie]

spotted in London

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOgSwnAWAAABCix?format=jpg&name=small

who does he play for :skull:

[Crimson Dynamo]

who does he play for :skull:

All I know is he plays on the LEFT

[DemRed]

You can't tell other people what they find anti-Semitic.

If I can't, neither can you!

[Livia]

If I can't, neither can you!


Would you tell a black man what he can and can't find racially unacceptable? No.

I don't speak for all Jews and you don't speak for any.

[Cherie]

Would you tell a black man what he can and can't find racially unacceptable? No.

I don't speak for all Jews and you don't speak for any.

:clap1:


It seems to be only Jews who can be TOLD what they should find acceptable/unacceptable

[DemRed]

Would you tell a black man what he can and can't find racially unacceptable? No.

I don't speak for all Jews and you don't speak for any.

No, of course not, but you are talking about a race and not a religion.

I don't know who you are or who you think you are. You have claimed many things but I take anyone online with a very large grain of salt. One thing I do know is, you love to be offended!

[Glenn.]

Oop

[Crimson Dynamo]

Oop

Dem is isn't talking about you darling :joker:

[Glenn.]

Dem is isn't talking about you darling :joker:

Doesn’t even make sense…

[Beso]

Meanwhile russia blows up shopping mall with hundreds inside....the world says nothing about ethnic cleansing

[Livia]

No, of course not, but you are talking about a race and not a religion.

I don't know who you are or who you think you are. You have claimed many things but I take anyone online with a very large grain of salt. One thing I do know is, you love to be offended!

I am only offended when someone like you offends me. And to say oh yeah, but that's race/religion shows how little you know, despite your supposed Jewish grandfather.

[Liam-]

Yet another refugee camp bombed to smithereens last night, Netanyahu and his sick followers just love murdering innocent civilians, especially children

[DemRed]

I am only offended when someone like you offends me. And to say oh yeah, but that's race/religion shows how little you know, despite your supposed Jewish grandfather.

Grandmother you mean?
I'd say it's you that only knows one side of the Palestine/Israeli conflict and you believe otherwise because you are a denialist.

[Livia]

Grandmother you mean?
I'd say it's you that only knows one side of the Palestine/Israeli conflict and you believe otherwise because you are a denialist.

Grandparent... Who cares.

And you have a deep bias against Israel. What are you going to do? Make some more outrageously tenuous claims to try to support your view? Have at it.

[Cherie]

Grandmother you mean?
I'd say it's you that only knows one side of the Palestine/Israeli conflict and you believe otherwise because you are a denialist.

Your father in law is Jewish as well yes?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yet another refugee camp bombed to smithereens last night, Netanyahu and his sick followers just love murdering innocent civilians, especially children
Thanks for the Hamas propaganda update - here are some facts:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOiMCWiXcAAqfKM?format=jpg&name=small

An IDF aircraft struck a Hamas compound in Rafah in which significant Hamas
terrorists were operating a short while ago.

The strike was carried out against legitimate targets under international law,

through the use of precise munitions and on the basis of precise intelligence
that indicated Hamas' use of the area.

The IDF is aware of reports indicating that as a result of the strike and fire
that was ignited several civilians in the area were harmed. The incident is
under review.

Eliminated in the precise airstrike in northwest Rafah: Hamas Chief of Staff in
Judea and Samaria and an additional senior Hamas official.

Terrorist #1: Yassin Rabia

Rabia managed the entirety of Hamas' terrorist activity in Judea and Samaria,
transferred funds to terrorist targets and planned Hamas terrorist attacks
throughout Judea and Samaria. He also carried out numerous attacks, in
which IDF soldiers were killed.

Terrorist #2: Khaled Nagar

Nagar, a senior official in Hamas’ Judea and Samaria Headquarters, directed
shooting attacks and other terrorist activities in Judea and Samaria and
transferred funds intended for Hamas’ terrorist activities in Gaza. He also
carried out several deadly terrorist attacks in which IDF soldiers were killed.

https://x.com/IDF/status/1794838430473421042

[Cherie]

Yet another refugee camp bombed to smithereens last night, Netanyahu and his sick followers just love murdering innocent civilians, especially children

He is a law unto himself

[DemRed]

Yet another refugee camp bombed to smithereens last night, Netanyahu and his sick followers just love murdering innocent civilians, especially children

That was horrendous. They believed they were in a safe place because Israel had told them they were.... go East, they were told.

They were dropping 2 thousand lb bombs on tents for FS. The blast waves alone will of killed many babies within thousands of feet, because their organs get crushed with the blast wave.
History will never forget this.

[Crimson Dynamo]

That was horrendous. They believed they were in a safe place because Israel had told them they were.... go East, they were told.

They were dropping 2 thousand lb bombs on tents for FS. The blast waves alone will of killed many babies within thousands of feet, because their organs get crushed with the blast wave.
History will never forget this.

And you don't ask for a source you just swallow it hook line and sinker

:rolleyes:

[DemRed]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fP-J8m-BF0&rco=1

[DemRed]

And you don't ask for a source you just swallow it hook line and sinker

:rolleyes:

I have every source of information at my fingertips. The video I just posted was from the New York Times. I have to wonder though, where you get your sources from. :facepalm:

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fP-J8m-BF0&rco=1

A propaganda video supplied by Hamas gleefully used by the far left NYT is of no use to anyone

I refer you to who was targetted by the strike and who was killed above

All residents of the area were warned weeks ago when and where strikes would be and to evacuate

[DemRed]

They were warned to move from the South, which they did. They were told they would be safe in the East... they were not. Do you even know the full reason why innocents were sacrificed in this bombing?

[Crimson Dynamo]

They were warned to move from the South, which they did. They were told they would be safe in the East... they were not. Do you even know the full reason why innocents were sacrificed in this bombing?

The only people who would have said the East was safe was Hamas...


This map published by the IDF shows the zones in eastern Rafah that are to be
evacuated ahead of an operation in the area.

The yellow zone is the new expanded humanitarian zone.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GM3sRd7WEAAus3W?format=jpg&name=small

https://x.com/manniefabian/status/1787344745406029842

[DemRed]

Your father in law is Jewish as well yes?

Yes, but he married a non Jew. My husband isn't Jewish but I'm considered Jewish if I want to be, because it runs down my maternal lines from my grandmother.

[Oliver_W]

Yes, but he married a non Jew. My husband isn't Jewish but I'm considered Jewish if I want to be, because it runs down my maternal lines from my grandmother.

Gosh, you almost make it sound like an ethnicity, rather than a set of beliefs.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Gosh, you almost make it sound like an ethnicity, rather than a set of beliefs.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/26BRDHKnjgXuhjlde/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b9526gcr4wq410f693ouldob4hgmup10 y5n2q6bv4rmk&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

[Livia]

Interesting you say your maternal grandmother was Jewish, but not your mother? Also interesting you claim Judaism is a religion, not a race... then claim to be a Jew through birthright.

[Crimson Dynamo]

NEW: Labour MPs are seemingly being told to make the exact same statement
on Rafah

These morons are sick - do not vote for them

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOnVEQnWkAAmfO6?format=jpg&name=900x900

https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1795200198446084580

[arista]

Sky News Text:
[Global horror at the Israeli airstrike on a
camp for displaced people in Gaza makes
up The Guardian's front page.]


https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-a9e412b5-229b-4471-9887-85f46c8cf339.png

[DemRed]

Interesting you say your maternal grandmother was Jewish, but not your mother? Also interesting you claim Judaism is a religion, not a race... then claim to be a Jew through birthright.

Yeah well my grandad is a Christian, so work that one out!

I know with certainty that Judaism is a religion, though many who identify as Jews are not religious. Their identity comes from believing they are the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Yes, Judaism is an identity, who share traditions and, for the most part, a common cultural heritage. Ethnically though, Jews come from a very broad spectrum

I have never claimed to be Jewish. I have said that I'm Judeo-Christian, which means I follow the Old Testement and the Bible.

[DemRed]

NEW: Labour MPs are seemingly being told to make the exact same statement
on Rafah

These morons are sick - do not vote for them

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOnVEQnWkAAmfO6?format=jpg&name=900x900

https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1795200198446084580

They've just shown themselves up for what they are. Hope this goes viral

[user104658]

Nothing wrong with the statement but I have no idea why they don't, for example, have Starmer post it and then the rest retweey/quote-tweet the original instead of copy-pasting it like a new tweet. Maybe they just don't know how :think:. Functionally it would be exactly the same thing.

[joeysteele]

Nothing wrong with the statement but I have no idea why they don't, for example, have Starmer post it and then the rest retweey/quote-tweet the original instead of copy-pasting it like a new tweet. Maybe they just don't know how :think:. Functionally it would be exactly the same thing.

NOTHING wrong with the statement at all
In fact I'd agree with every word of it

[bots]

if labour win the election, it will be interesting how they manage to cope without being able to demand the tories do something about it

[Crimson Dynamo]

if labour win the election, it will be interesting how they manage to cope without being able to demand the tories do something about it

Here is Rayner (Labour) telling a group of Muslim men (never woman naturally) that when Labour get in power there is literally sod all she can do about a war in another country thousands of miles away

https://x.com/IncMonocle/status/1795228098192937319

:laugh:

[Oliver_W]

Yeah well my grandad is a Christian, so work that one out!

Wow, so you could also claim to be Christian if you wanted, whether or not you believe in God.

[user104658]

if labour win the election, it will be interesting how they manage to cope without being able to demand the tories do something about it

Not really they'll both just do the usual swap. Tories will demand that Labour do something about it, Labour will say "Sorry, the Tories left too big of a mess behind".

The Tories were still blaming the previous Labour government for their failings when they'd been in power for nearly 15 years :joker:.

[Livia]

Yeah well my grandad is a Christian, so work that one out!

I know with certainty that Judaism is a religion, though many who identify as Jews are not religious. Their identity comes from believing they are the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Yes, Judaism is an identity, who share traditions and, for the most part, a common cultural heritage. Ethnically though, Jews come from a very broad spectrum

I have never claimed to be Jewish. I have said that I'm Judeo-Christian, which means I follow the Old Testement and the Bible.

Jewish people consider themselves a race, I consider Judaism to be a race... You can't say "with certainty" that they're not. Stop telling me what a Jew is, you sound like an idiot.

[Beso]

Hamas dont want a 2 state solution, they want all jews expelled and all land returned to the Palestinians. Until they get that, if given the chance to regroup, all we will see is more oct 7ths.

[user104658]

Hamas dont want a 2 state solution, they want all jews expelled and all land returned to the Palestinians. Until they get that, if given the chance to regroup, all we will see is more oct 7ths.

Probably but the same is true of Israel (they do not realistically want a 2 state solution either, and never have) which is why the 1948 plan was doomed to failure from the outset, and all of this violence was always coming.

[Beso]

Probably but the same is true of Israel (they do not realistically want a 2 state solution either, and never have) which is why the 1948 plan was doomed to failure from the outset, and all of this violence was always coming.

They know it wouldnt work because of hamas..so they get rid of Hamas first.. then take it from there..

But hamas has to go for it to have a chance..that is fact.

[DemRed]

Hamas dont want a 2 state solution, they want all jews expelled and all land returned to the Palestinians. Until they get that, if given the chance to regroup, all we will see is more oct 7ths.

Israel doesn't want a two state solution either so it's unlikely to ever happen. You claim that Hamas want all Jews expelled from Israel. Do you have definitive proof of this?

[Livia]

Both Israel and Palestine want Jerusalem as their capital. Can't see two states ever working.

[user104658]

They know it wouldnt work because of hamas..so they get rid of Hamas first.. then take it from there..


They don't want it though and again never have - Israel has historically been (and may continue to be) more on board with a two-state solution because of international relations, but that's the only reason, in terms of what they want in an ideal world it clearly isn't that. That's not even a judgement particularly - it's just an observation. I judge the way they're currently trying to solve the problem, but I acknowledge that there is a problem ... two-state solution has never been realistic (at the very least, not one that includes Gaza), it's a high concept political idea that's incompatible with the populations.

That was true pre Oct 7th... now, after the events of the last 6+ months, it's 100% off the table... it will NEVER work... it can't even go back to how it was before. Two state solution inclusive of Gaza is dead as an idea.

[DemRed]

Probably but the same is true of Israel (they do not realistically want a 2 state solution either, and never have) which is why the 1948 plan was doomed to failure from the outset, and all of this violence was always coming.

Israel has never complied or had any intention to comply with resolution 242 (a resolution they adopted in 1967)

[Livia]

Israel doesn't want a two state solution either so it's unlikely to ever happen. You claim that Hamas want all Jews expelled from Israel. Do you have definitive proof of this?

Everything they do and everything they say. From the river to the sea...

[DemRed]

Wow, so you could also claim to be Christian if you wanted, whether or not you believe in God.

Of course and lots of people do, especially when its convenient to do so.

[user104658]

Israel doesn't want a two state solution either so it's unlikely to ever happen. You claim that Hamas want all Jews expelled from Israel. Do you have definitive proof of this?

As with Israel I don't think there's any denying that they would WANT it. In both cases, that's different to it being their actual realistic aim... so they may or may not be trying to make it happen. But if you were to ask either "If you could Thanos snap and the whole of Israel was magically yours no drama, OR snap your fingers and have a perfect and peaceful two-state solution, OR snap your fingers and unfathomably share the country peacefully with equal representation" I think we being realistic all know that the choice - for both - would be the first one. They're both religious populations, they both believe they have a god-given claim on the land. Neither actually wants to share it. That's just what it is.

[DemRed]

Everything they do and everything they say. From the river to the sea...

Israel say the same thing and yet, for some reason, its only racist if it comes from one side. I think it's racist from both sides.
What Israel appears to be doing now is ethnic cleansing. I've seen interviews with prominent Zionists about how they were looking forward to all this new real estate in what was once Palestine.

[Livia]

You make large claims with no evidence. Where are these interviews? No one's taking your word...

[user104658]

Israel say the same thing and yet, for some reason, its only racist if it comes from one side. I think it's racist from both sides.
What Israel appears to be doing now is ethnic cleansing. I've seen interviews with prominent Zionists about how they were looking forward to all this new real estate in what was once Palestine.

I find it quite complicated because there's a "They would if they could" element here with Hamas. I do not, personally, believe that if aliens beamed down and gifted Hamas the technology and weaponry to take all of Israel with overwhelming force, that they wouldn't have done it immediately. There is a huge power imbalance between Israel and Palestine, clearly, and that's what results in such an imbalance in terms of the destruction caused, and also what makes it so distasteful I think (as I also don't believe Israel would have gone in as hard as they have if there was any realistic possibility of a meaningful counter-offensive).

As always my sympathies lie with the innocent bystanders whose lives and homes have been devastated, and my ire is directed at those who are seemingly completely careless with collateral damage (and those who would cheer them on gleefully).

The politics on all sides is ****ed. Isn't it always.

[Beso]

Israel doesn't want a two state solution either so it's unlikely to ever happen. You claim that Hamas want all Jews expelled from Israel. Do you have definitive proof of this?

Yes. My cousin is a Hamas operative.

[Crimson Dynamo]

On Sunday, the @IAFsite carried out an intelligence-based precise strike that targeted
senior Hamas terrorists in Tal as Sultan.

Contrary to Hamas' lies and misinformation, the strike did not take place in the Al-
Mawasi Humanitarian Area.

This is the area where the strike actually happened:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOlwuTPWsAEDkxt?format=jpg&name=small
https://x.com/IDF/status/1795089873772142873

perhaps certain members may want to row back on their earlier posts regarding this operation :think:

[DemRed]

Jewish people consider themselves a race, I consider Judaism to be a race... You can't say "with certainty" that they're not. Stop telling me what a Jew is, you sound like an idiot.


You can only talk for yourself and the people you know. Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro and his thousands of followers believes Jewish people are not a race and so does Rabbi Shais Taub and many other Rabbis, but then you stated some time ago that Orthodox Jews were an odd bunch, so here's a guy who is not Orthodox


BCmHd_scHik

[user104658]

On Sunday, the @IAFsite carried out an intelligence-based precise strike that targeted
senior Hamas terrorists in Tal as Sultan.

Contrary to Hamas' lies and misinformation, the strike did not take place in the Al-
Mawasi Humanitarian Area.

This is the area where the strike actually happened:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOlwuTPWsAEDkxt?format=jpg&name=small
https://x.com/IDF/status/1795089873772142873

perhaps certain members may want to row back on their earlier posts regarding this operation :think:

This is meaningless without an independent source. Note that I'm not saying it's untrue; just that it's meaningless. It's jus the IDF themselves saying "Umm no we didn't trust me bro". ANY other source would be better tbh.

[Livia]

You can only talk for yourself and the people you know. Rabbi Yaakov Shapiro and his thousands of followers believes Jewish people are not a race and so does Rabbi Shais Taub and many other Rabbis, but then you stated some time ago that Orthodox Jews were an odd bunch, so here's a guy who is not Orthodox


BCmHd_scHik

I take it back. You don't sound like an idiot, you are an idiot.

[Beso]

This is meaningless without an independent source. Note that I'm not saying it's untrue; just that it's meaningless. It's jus the IDF themselves saying "Umm no we didn't trust me bro". ANY other source would be better tbh.

But you accept the Hamas news reels...:shrug: or at least seem to.

[user104658]

But you accept the Hamas news reels...:shrug: or at least seem to.

Do I? Where?

[Redway]

Yes. My cousin is a Hamas operative.

I wonder how-many lifetimes would have to pass before I actually believed that.

[Beso]

I draw the line at someone pretending that one needs anything resembling any sort of decorum to be a member of TiBB. I mean it's never been great but in 2024 it's dominated by a small handful of the literal saddest old bastards I've ever encountered. And I spent 9 years in a bookmakers.

Oh dearly deary me..how ageist...mods..sort this discriminatory rhetoric from the left leaning members out please...

[DemRed]

I take it back. You don't sound like an idiot, you are an idiot.

I've often wondered who you really are.... Now I know :hehe:

[user104658]

Oh dearly deary me..how ageist...mods..sort this discriminatory rhetoric from the left leaning members out please...

Why are you going around looking for posts from days ago to make daft passive-aggressive comments about, like a little piggy snuffling around for truffles? :joker: Take the afternoon off Parmy, no one cares least of all the TiBB staff.

[DemRed]

Oh dearly deary me..how ageist...mods..sort this discriminatory rhetoric from the left leaning members out please...

Embrace your age Parmnion. Every wrinkle tells a story. Don't try and cancel people if they lose it with you because it looks so overly woke.