The EU - Referendum - 23rd of June 2016 - in or out?

[The Slim Reaper]

No I accept what you are saying
but it is not Brexit Alone,
If only you could agree?

Bloody China's Covid
halted our HGV drivers

I believe I've acknowledged that it has added to it, but how many specialised HGV drivers can complete their training and test per day?

If we take the last 500 days (just under 18 months), the UK would have to have got 200 drivers through their training and test per day, which is impossible.

This was projected to happen as part of brexit. A couple of days ago, you tried to pretend it was all covid in that stupid KFC thread, and wouldn't accept when I pointed out it was because of brexit.

Another thing you completely miss, is that if the largest companies in the uk market are having these issues, what do you think is happening further down the food chain?

[Cherie]

Listening to the HGV drivers this am on phone in's there are loads of factors

Tesco outsourcing their drivers, and no longer having their own drivers, how many more supermarket do this?

DVLA delays (experienced this ourselves Mr C waiting 3 months for his licence to be renewed :oh:) and no one answering a phone

HGV drivers have to be 25 to get insurance even though they can get their licence at 18

Zero hour contracts - see Tesco who used to paid their drivers well and we on contracts but then outsourced

Delays at supermarkets unloading leading to loads being picked up late

Covid - people do not want to travel

Brexit


2,500 fee to apply for licence

Young people do not want to be lorry drivers they all want Uni or to be famous lol

[arista]

Listening to the HGV drivers this am on phone in's there are loads of factors

Tesco outsourcing their drivers, and no longer having their own drivers, how many more supermarket do this?

DVLA delays (experienced this ourselves Mr C waiting 3 months for his licence to be renewed :oh:) and no one answering a phone

HGV drivers have to be 25 to get insurance even though they can get their licence at 18

Zero hour contracts - see Tesco who used to paid their drivers well and we on contracts but then outsourced

Delays at supermarkets unloading leading to loads being picked up late

Covid - people do not want to travel

Brexit


2,500 fee to apply for licence

Young people do not want to be lorry drivers they all want Uni or to be famous lol


Great Post Cherie

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[The Slim Reaper]

Tesco operate in the EU where no country is having these issues.

Delays at supermarkets are being caused by....

Zero hour contracts - it's really lovely to see people finally realise the absolute destruction being wrought upon society by capitalism. I take it Arista is now a Corbynista? :smug:

£11.30/hr stacking shelves in Aldi.
£11.80/hr for HGV drivers, who are only allowed to drive for 10 hrs per day, but will have to clock up 13-15/hr per days regularly to allow for load times. It's not much to do with being famous, it's to do with capitalism.


Again, no one is saying it's not a complicated issue with many factors, but I am definitely saying if we had remained we wouldn't have been having these issues that only we are having because we told EU drivers we don't want them anymore, or made their lives so difficult that it wasn't worth it.

As I already pointed out, all of these points only involve the biggest supermarkets/eateries, so what do people think is happening even lower down the food chain?

We're not even discussing farmers with all of their food rotting because the folks aren't there to pick it and transport it, or the fishermen that were lied to.

[bots]

spain have an acute hgv driver shortage too apparently

[The Slim Reaper]

spain have an acute hgv driver shortage too apparently

I'm sure we'd all like hot HGV drivers :smug:

[Cherie]

he International Road Transport Union’s 2021 driver shortage survey has indicated that road transport companies expect a 10% rise in driver shortages this year.

In a statement published yesterday, the IRU explained that the coronavirus pandemic saw the shortage of truck drivers in Europe fall significantly in 2020 – from 24% to just 7%.

However, the survey also found that European companies are expecting a 17% shortfall in drivers this year. The 10% increase is on account of the extra demand created from economies across Europe recovering as vaccines allow lockdowns to be relaxed.

“Driver shortage threatens the functioning of road transport, supply chains, trade, the economy, and ultimately employment and citizens’ welfare. This is not an issue that can wait, action needs to be taken now,” said IRU Secretary General Umberto de Pretto.

According to the IRU, survey respondents cited a lack of trained drivers as the main cause in all regions (38% of the total respondents). Challenging working conditions, further exacerbated by the pandemic, and difficulties attracting women and young people to the profession were also mentioned.

The percentage of truck drivers under 25 fell nearly everywhere in 2020 and is down to 5% in Europe. The average age of drivers is increasing globally too, a trend the IRU has referred to as a “demographic time bomb” that will only get worse without action.

Last October, the IRU called on governments to make it easier for young adults to become lorry drivers. However, there are a number of barriers to entry that remain for those hoping to join the profession.

In this article we published following that IRU statement, a number of UK-based lorry drivers said that low pay, high training and insurance costs, as well as a lack of future prospects, make the position of lorry driver less attractive.

https://trans.info/en/iru-survey-europe-s-driver-shortage-to-rise-by-10-in-2021-226644

[Cherie]

We need robots, it's not a young person career

Arista?

[arista]

We need robots, it's not a young person career

Arista?


Lack of Funding.

[Niamh.]

spain have an acute hgv driver shortage too apparently

I'm sure we'd all like hot HGV drivers :smug:

:laugh2:

[arista]

Look Slim
Down Under Empty shelves as well
they had no Brexit?


Covid Problems like us.

1434411713009491973

[The Slim Reaper]

1435294221435609096

[Crimson Dynamo]

julie atkinson #ForeverEuropean #RejoinBlue heart #FBPA
@skatinggirl1
Flag of European UnionFlag of United KingdomHandshake#European #JohnsonOut


yep

[The Slim Reaper]

julie atkinson #ForeverEuropean #RejoinBlue heart #FBPA
@skatinggirl1
Flag of European UnionFlag of United KingdomHandshake#European #JohnsonOut


yep

Did she write the article?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Did she write the article?

No the extreme left cash hungry dog whistle for hits hard left failed newspaper the independent did

Can you join the dots?

[The Slim Reaper]

No the extreme left cash hungry dog whistle for hits hard left failed newspaper the independent did

Can you join the dots?

You ok, LT?

The independent isn't even a leftie paper, but do you think they're the only ones reporting the story? Would you like to comment on the story or just about the independent?

[Crimson Dynamo]

When you insult

You lose….....

:skull:

[The Slim Reaper]

When you insult

You lose….....

:skull:

A simple no would have sufficed.

[Crimson Dynamo]

A simple no would have sufficed.

So would a reply that did not break a tibb rule

[The Slim Reaper]

So would a reply that did not break a tibb rule

Which reply do you think breaks a tibb rule?

Can you do me a favour and post the tibb rule, too? I know you've been doing that a lot recently, so that would save some time for @mods and @admin.

[arista]

[Michel Barnier backs 'Frexit':
EU's former chief Brexit negotiator is branded
a 'hypocrite' after saying he wants France
to quit European courts of justice and human rights
Michel Barnier is considering running for the
French presidency next year
He said the role of the European Court
of Justice in France should be limited
He called for a referendum calling for
a ban on non-EU immigration to France]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9975575/Michel-Barnier-wants-limit-role-ECJ-France.html

[arista]

1435514629237747712


This is a big Bully S.Bray
that needs to banned.

[Alf]

1435514629237747712


This is a big Bully S.Bray
that needs to banned.Poor little soul, he's still sulking because his fellow citizens didn't vote for what he wanted, and he's gonna let us know about it. He seems harmless enough to me, let him get on with it.

[Nicky91]

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2021/09/uk-ambassador-urges-britons-to-apply-for-dutch-residency-by-september-30/

The UK’s ambassador to the Netherlands has urged British nationals to submit their applications for residency before the post-Brexit ‘grace period’ ends at the end of the month.

The embassy and the Dutch immigration service IND estimate that around 2,000 Dutch-based Britons have not applied for either short-term or permanent residency since the UK left the European Union.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/wpcms/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/s465_Joanna_Roper_1.jpg

Joanna Roper warned that the process would become ‘more difficult’ after the September 30 deadline, though the Dutch government says it will continue to accept applications for another 12 months.

But she stressed that it had been a ‘very straightforward’ exercise for the 38,000 Britons who have secured residential status. The IND has set up an English-language web page and helpline for UK citizens who are applying for residency and sent out letters to people’s home addresses.

‘The Dutch have been very efficient at this,’ she said. ‘99% of people who have put their applications in have been approved, and if somebody forgets to include a piece of information there’s been opportunities to do that.

‘This is not about catching people out. It’s about giving people the opportunity to get their application in and continue living, working, studying and enjoying life in the Netherlands.’

No legal status

Ms Roper said people who missed the deadline could still apply for residency for up to another year, but stressed this is not an extension of the grace period and they will be technically living in the country illegally.

‘People can still submit an application, but the risks are that they might be not have access to services, to social security, tuition fees for students, or they may have problems taking out a mortgage,’ she said.

‘All those things you take for granted having achieved residency are likely to become a little bit more difficult, if not impossible. And if you haven’t got a legal basis to stay in a country then clearly that becomes very problematic indeed.

‘So our big message is, if you haven’t applied please do. You’ve got two weeks to do it, it is a straightforward process and the Dutch will reach out and try and support. And if you know other UK nationals, please get that message out to them as well.’

Flexible policy

Deputy justice minister Ankie Broekers-Knol said in a letter to parliament this month that the Dutch government would still accept applications until the end of September 2022 under the terms of the UK’s withdrawal agreement from the EU.

‘As long as these conditions are met and a Brexit residency document is issued, British citizens’ residential status will retrospectively be deemed legal,’ she wrote.

‘That means, for example, that any benefits and subsidies that were stopped as a result of their legal status changing can be repaid.

‘After this 12-month period, from October 1 2022, the more flexible policy for Britons applying for a Brexit residency document will end and they will be treated in the same way as other third-country nationals.’

98.4% accepted

Anyone who registered with a local authority (gemeente) in the Netherlands before the end of 2020 is eligible to apply for residency under the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement.

Those who have been in the country less than five years can apply for renewable limited-term residency, while people who arrived before the end of 2015 are eligible for permanent residency.

The IND’s latest figures show 98.4% of the 38,436 applications for residency so far have been accepted, while just 250 were rejected. Another 388 were not processed for other reasons, such as an applicant having obtained Dutch citizenship.

Another 5,612 EU residency permits have been exchanged for Dutch residential status under the terms of the withdrawal agreement.

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/1CD8/production/_120648370_i-nc.png

[Tom4784]

Deleted Post

[arista]

Dec 12th 2019

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FAG4IETWEAAUbrV?format=jpg&name=900x900

[arista]

1443910334440423426

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/2B5D/production/_121010111_tele-nc.png

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/10/12/11/49069097-0-image-m-14_1634034417170.jpg


[Macron and his allies line up to take on Britain over fishing:
Eleven EU nations call for a 'common front'
over post-Brexit fishing licences row as
France warns of retaliation later this month
Countries including Germany, Spain and Italy joined
the French in condemning the British response
to fishing row as 'incomplete and inappropriate'
France has accused Britain of violating
the post-Brexit trade agreement it signed
by denying licences to French fishermen
But Britain said licences denied to
boats where fisherman unable to
provide evidence of their
traditional grounds]


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10083203/France-ten-EU-nations-call-common-against-Britain-post-Brexit-fishing-licences.html


Yes Stinking Macron has Elections on the way (April 2022)
so thats why he is getting his gang
ready.

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBe_6DmXoAUdkPe?format=jpg&name=small

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBh8IymVEAET_fF?format=jpg&name=small

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBh2U5QVIAEbvpx?format=jpg&name=small

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FBkfybeXIAQL0LZ?format=jpg&name=small

[arista]

Some Better news.

Brexit: Most Northern Ireland checks on British goods to be scrapped

[The EU has released its plan for a reduction
of post-Brexit checks on goods and medicines
arriving into Northern Ireland from
the rest of the UK.
Northern Ireland has a special Brexit deal which
keeps it in the EU's single market for goods
and allows free-flowing trade with the EU.
But it means goods arriving from Britain
face checks and controls.
The new plan would remove about 80
per cent of spot checks, the EU says.

The EU said customs paperwork would also be cut by 50%.]


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-58871221

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/16BD1/production/_121073139_theguardian-nc.png

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/F6A1/production/_121073136_ft-nc.png

[Alf]

So proud of my fellow Country men and women for voting us out of this scam.

[arista]

The EU is still creating a problem,
they want the ECJ (Euro Court Of Justice)
as they claim, Northern Ireland wants it.

The ECJ goes with the new Trading deal.

Ref:Last nights
NewsnightHD

[Alf]

1448249480353091589

[arista]

Not for those in Northern Ireland

[joeysteele]

Not for those in Northern Ireland

I think major problems are possible here.
Even moreso than now.

The DUP are at odds mostly with the majority of Northern Irish voters.
The divisions between the unionist and other voters is growing.

This needed much better planning from the start.
The warnings were clear all through that the Irish position had to be respected.

It's not just that near 56% voted to remain in Northern Ireland.
It could come to more than that in the future as to the future of Northern Ireland.
As to possible, eventual reunification with the Republic of Ireland.

If much more of a mess is made of this as is the case now.

[arista]

From the 2nd on Nov

France will start their trade war.
Even saying they can cut our Electricity????

[Fishing rights row: French threats disappointing, says Frost]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59069951


Update: They are now going for talks
on Thursday.

[arista]

This is Not Good.
But it is the only way for now.

[UK meat producers have started sending
carcasses to the EU for butchering before
re-importing them as they continue to combat a labour shortage.

The British Meat Processors Association (BMPA)
say producers are sending beef to
the Republic of Ireland amid local shortages of butchers.

Meanwhile, pork producers are set to begin
sending pigs to the Netherlands for
butchering and packing.]

[Meat exported in this way cannot be
labelled as British pork for UK sale.]


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59150767

[arista]

BBC Text :
[Leaked documents show the government
is working on plans to withdraw up to £15bn
of funding from three EU scientific
research programmes,
according to the Sunday Telegraph.
The plans to stop contributing to
the bloc's scientific, satellite and
nuclear projects - worth £77bn,
and which the UK agreed to stay
part of when it signed up to the
Brexit deal - come "amid deteriorating relations
with Brussels", the paper reports.]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/CF40/production/_121465035_telegraph-nc.png

[arista]

https://livecenterimagesnorth.azureedge.net/lc-images-2021/lcimg-7875dc50-5ae8-4015-ac8a-ab5b4e5bc714.jpg?bypass-service-worker&

[Withano]

Remember when people thought brexit was a good idea. That was a weird year.

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/0511/production/_121979210_dailyexpress-nc.png

[arista]

BBC Text
[ Lord Frost's resignation with
this headline: "Now the minister for Brexit
walks out on Boris". It says the "dramatic move"
was triggered by "his growing
'disillusionment' with the direction of Tory policy".]


https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/C5B0/production/_122280605_dailymail-nc.png

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/F4D1/production/_122537626_dailystar-nc.png

[arista]

Live on LBC

New Charges are to start,
on the 1st of Jan.

A Company owner selling Gin
is shocked with new charges

[arista]

Great Brexit debate on LBC Live now

[arista]

Another Brexit debate
Live on LBC.


This time it is the Labour Plan "Make Brexit Work"

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/639F/production/_122630552_tele-nc.png

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJEKTPNWYAA3U__?format=jpg&name=small

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/2A85/production/_123058801_express31jan.jpg

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/165C1/production/_123058519_mail31jan.jpg

[arista]

Brexit: UK plan to remove EU law sparks nations' anger from Scotland

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60191402

[Sticks]

This thread was originally about the 2016 referendum.

This thread has run its course on the original purpose for it.

Is it not time to lock it and start a new thread about the travails of Brexit?

[arista]

This thread was originally about the 2016 referendum.

This thread has run its course on the original purpose for it.

Is it not time to lock it and start a new thread about the travails of Brexit?


No Sticks
its ideal for Brexit Updates

[Sticks]

No Sticks
its ideal for Brexit Updates

I suggested that you start a new thread for such updates, the original thread was about the 2016 referendum, which is long over.

[arista]

I suggested that you start a new thread for such updates, the original thread was about the 2016 referendum, which is long over.


No need,
this thread is not full, yet


Many Students are using this Mega Thread
that has Newspaper Front Pages images
they use

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/6831/production/_123237662_express-nc.png

[The Slim Reaper]

Zelensky signing the Ukranian application to join the EU.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMslHVrX0AApNpw?format=jpg&name=medium

[Cherie]

wonder if they will be fast tracked in

[glib]

wonder if they will be fast tracked in

They will be in within 4 days yet it took us 4 years to get out lol

[Sticks]

wonder if they will be fast tracked in

Lets hope not, otherwise the EU will be hit by the might of Mother Russia and this will escalate things.

I can not understand why they are shipping weapons to a war zone, it will only enrage and provoke Putin more, and he has promised to use nuclear weapons and is of a mind set to do so.

This Ukrainian president is the one who gave an order that means Nigerian students, who have nothing to do with this conflict are being barred from leaving Ukraine as this president wants them to fight instead. Even British people have been banned from leaving, and are expected to fight in a conflict that has nothing to do with them.

And another thing, why is this thread still going, the EU referendum was six years ago???

[Cherie]

Lets hope not, otherwise the EU will be hit by the might of Mother Russia and this will escalate things.

I can not understand why they are shipping weapons to a war zone, it will only enrage and provoke Putin more, and he has promised to use nuclear weapons and is of a mind set to do so.

This Ukrainian president is the one who gave an order that means Nigerian students, who have nothing to do with this conflict are being barred from leaving Ukraine as this president wants them to fight instead. Even British people have been banned from leaving, and are expected to fight in a conflict that has nothing to do with them.

And another thing, why is this thread still going, the EU referendum was six years ago???


It does put the EU in an awkward position, also is this something the Ukraine peoole wanted, was it part of Zelenskyys election manufesto I wonder

Arista like this thread ...and we miss Kirk even though he was an ardent Brexiteer :bawling:

[Kizzy]

Speak for yourself I don't miss him. As this thread shows we are no longer an EU member, who they do and don't have is their business. We can kowtow now if we wish to Russia which for me was one of the objectives.

It is unfortunate however for the brexiteers that the UK happens to BE in Europe...So should mother Russia get her panties in a bunch we are also in the firing line.

Well done :)

[jet]

It does put the EU in an awkward position, also is this something the Ukraine peoole wanted, was it part of Zelenskyys election manufesto I wonder

Arista like this thread ...and we miss Kirk even though he was an ardent Brexiteer :bawling:

The great Kirk, he is missed. Now there is someone I'd love to see back here. :thumbs:

[bots]

any country has to meet the entry criteria for the EU. I have no idea if ukraine meet the criteria

[The Slim Reaper]

:laugh:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOEoqhQXwAkwOfK?format=jpg&name=900x900

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOEoqpxWQAA5U_p?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Kizzy]

Hang on there appears to be a distinct 'ooh look over there, something funny is going on'!
Have you noticed we are reducing our MPs from 650 to 600, is this gerrymandering not undemocratic?
The news today is the accidental disclosure of information caused the foreign secretary to attack an MP as a 'sh*t'.
This proves we know what they want us to know and no more.

What is important to you personally, is it your pay packet?
Then my advice would be in.

'Workers’ rights are under threat if Britain leaves the European Union, Labour’s shadow Business Secretary has said.

Angela Eagle warned that EU-backed principles like paid holidays and equal pay were “on the ballot paper” in the In-Out referendum on 23 June.

Ms Eagle warned that many Conservatives who wanted to leave the bloc wanted to scrap the rights and said Labour voters would be key to the Remain vote.'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-workers-rights-paid-holiday-brexit-labour-angela-eagle-a6901146.html

In in in in in in in in in in in in


Ahem...

[Crimson Dynamo]

:laugh:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOEoqhQXwAkwOfK?format=jpg&name=900x900

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOEoqpxWQAA5U_p?format=jpg&name=900x900

an express newspaper link?


we are here folks

we are here

:laugh:

[glib]

Ahem...

Kizzy we’ve left already

[Kizzy]

Kizzy we’ve left already

Not the point of my post...but thanks.
When's your next stating the obvious bulletin?

Can I have a go? 2+2=4

[Kizzy]

'Imagine a country in which there is:

– No statutory right to paid holiday

– No legal limit on the number of hours employees can be required to work

– No right to a daily rest period

– No laws to prevent employers discriminating against workers who are disabled or who have particular religious beliefs

– No right for employees to take time off work to look after a sick child.

This was the UK before the New Labour government was elected in 1997. Since then a substantial number of employment rights have been introduced – most of which have their roots in EU legislation.

Thanks to the EU, employers cannot treat part-time workers less favourably than full-time workers, working parents have a right to take leave to look after their children, and temporary agency workers and workers with fixed-term contracts are entitled to the same basic conditions as comparable workers with permanent contracts.'

Still want out?...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/eu-brexit-uk-referendum-leave-employment-rights-disaster-explained-a6921126.html


Bump

[arista]

Kizzy
we are Out of the EU.


Try to be more Positive

Forever there are negative Folks out there
and LibDems that will never accept the truth
that is Tragic

[glib]

Not the point of my post...but thanks.
When's your next stating the obvious bulletin?

Can I have a go? 2+2=4

Then stop bumping your post warning everyone we’re better off in the EU

[Kizzy]

I will post as and when I see fit...

'Putin 'greatly emboldened' by Brexit, says former UK defence attaché to Moscow

In*his FT letter*Carl Scott, the retired air commodore and the UK’s defence attaché in Moscow, also says Putin was “emboldened” by Brexit. He says:

It was not until I returned to the UK on the eve of our withdrawal from the EU, a manoeuvre which greatly emboldened those in Moscow, that I understood how our society had changed in the years I was serving overseas.'

Destabilising the EU was always going to have an effect.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/mar/23/spring-statement-2022-rishi-sunak-poorest-families-likely-to-be-worst-hit-by-impact-of-ukraine-war-live-updates?filterKeyEvents=false&page=with:block-623b02018f08118734a70a40#block-623b02018f08118734a70a40

[The Slim Reaper]

Congrats.

https://www.ft.com/content/021c629d-5853-4111-9600-ab5f0eb65a35?sharetype=blocked

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOwUQ3qXMAI-6Q2?format=jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOwUQ3pX0AAxurl?format=jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOwUQ3sXMAEVS-A?format=jpg&name=small

[arista]

Yes Slim,
and after & during that
China's Covid-19
buggered it all up even worse

[The Slim Reaper]

Yes Slim,
and after & during that
China's Covid-19
buggered it all up even worse

Other countries have rebounded, and our own people have already said brexit will be worse than covid. These figures aren't anything to do with covid.

Any regrets yet?

[arista]

Other countries have rebounded, and our own people have already said brexit will be worse than covid. These figures aren't anything to do with covid.

Any regrets yet?


Theresa May the Worst Ever Prime Minister
wasted 3 Years.
The Stupid Woman called a snap Election
Lost her power.

She Buggered up Brexit
and our Nation.

Thats why we are in this mess

[Sticks]

And her deal would have been better than what Boris got, but the Labour Party, with it's secret preference for NO DEAL, kept voting her deal down.

[The Slim Reaper]

Every tory was happy with the deal boris got, it's revisionism now to pretend it's mays fault. Some were so happy with it, they voted for it without even reading it.

[arista]

Every tory was happy with the deal boris got, it's revisionism now to pretend it's mays fault. Some were so happy with it, they voted for it without even reading it.


She wasted 3 years
Prime Minister May


The Worst Ever.

She Buggered our Nation.

[The Slim Reaper]

She wasted 3 years
Prime Minister May


The Worst Ever.

She Buggered our Nation.

You were happy with Johnsons deal, so why is may to blame for a deal you were happy with? It doesn't make any sense.

Do you agree that brexit is now a disaster?

Do you think I was telling you more truth in this thread than Farage and Rees-mogg were telling you on TV?

[arista]

PM May

wasted 3 years

Worst ever PM


3 Years is a long time, Slim.

Now we can get Better,
give it time

[The Slim Reaper]

A long read, but the reality of what the tories and brexit have done, and are continuing to do to this country.


https://www.gerhardschnyder.com/brexit-impact-tracker/2022/5/2/brexit-impact-tracker-2-may-2022-budapest-on-thames

This week I was planning to write about new research on the trade impact of Brexit. However, what happened in Parliament this week was so extraordinary and concerning that I decided to comment on the state of UK democracy instead. Indeed, on 28th April 2022 three bills received Royal Assent which may very well put the UK on the path towards an ‘illiberal democracy’ and worse – an outright autocracy – following the Hungarian model. The three new laws are the Elections Act, the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act, and the Judicial Review and Courts Act. Taken together, these three laws arguably constitute the most serious attack on British democracy from within since the Blackshirts marched in the streets of London. As such, not the 23 June 2016, the 30 January 2020, or 1 January 2021 should be what Johnson will be remembered for. It should be 28 April 2022 when his government created the conditions for the UK to become an illiberal, authoritarian state.

No doubt, to some readers this will sound like an exaggerated, alarmist ‘Bremoaner hissy fit.’ Yet, I have rarely felt so certain that what we are witnessing is a deliberate attack on democracy carried out by a British government and the governing party. The laws that were adopted this week are so egregious in their anti-democratic nature that there can no longer be any doubt about the intention of the Conservative party led by Johnson. I am so certain of it because I have seen it happen elsewhere – namely in Hungary.

Let me first summarise why these laws are so dangerous for democracy and then make a detour via Budapest to show that it is easy to predict what we have to brace for next.



Policing Act: Curbing the freedom of protest

The first new law limiting our democratic rights is the Police, Crime, Sentencing, and Courts Act (PCSCA). The key reason why this law undermines democracy is that it limits the right to protest and thus freedom of speech and expression of dissent in significant ways. The police are given more wide-ranging powers to limit protests ex ante, most importantly by setting a start and finishing time for any demonstration and by imposing noise limits. The law also increases punishment ex post for not complying with such conditions and for unlawful acts taking place during a demonstration. Most significantly, the PCSCA specifies that ‘damage to memorials’ could be punished by up to ten years in prison. This is a directed reaction to Black Lives Matters demonstrators toppling the statue of Edwards Colston and being cleared of criminal damage. The ruling drew ire of right-wing politicians, organisations, and media outlets, which the government now has used to justify its illiberal bill.



Judicial Review Act: Sticking it to the ‘enemies of the people’

The second law concerns Judicial Review (JR), i.e. the ability for citizens to challenge laws and legislation adopted by parliament and bodies of the state. The Home Office, in an announcement full of self-congratulatory rhetoric, explains that ‘the Judicial Review and Courts Act delivers on a manifesto commitment to ensure courts are not open to abuse and delay and provides much needed flexibility on the outcome of Judicial Reviews (JR).’ What they mean with ‘much needed flexibility,’ of course, is that the judges will now find it harder to hold government to account, which provides the government with the much-needed flexibility to continue regularly breaking the law – both domestic and international.

Indeed, for the Johnson government, judges are one of the most annoying part of British democracy, because they can be less easily controlled than MPs. Both the triggering of art. 50 without parliamentary consent by Theresa May and the prorogation of Parliament in 2019 were challenge in this way and the challenges were upheld by the courts. It therefore comes as no surprise that they have been in the line of fire already during the Brexit negotiations process (cf. the Daily Mail’s infamous ‘enemies of the people’ headline).

Beyond the substance, a point that concerns many lawyers is the way in which the act has voided certain JRs, namely by using an ‘ouster clause’ which ‘ringfences’ governmental decisions and move them beyond the reach of courts. This implies a trend of isolating government from scrutiny and accountability, thus weakening the separation of powers.

To his credit, even former Tory minister and Brexiter David Davies spoke out against the JR bill warning that “[s]uch attempts to consolidate power are profoundly un-conservative and forget that, in a society governed by the rule of law, the government does not always get its way.”

Mind you, the government did not forget about the ‘people.’ To please its voter based, the Johnson government made it clear that the weakening of JR will not only be used to better protect Tory politicians from judicial challenges, but also against immigrants. Thus the Home Office promises that the reform ‘ends inefficient […] ‘Cart’ JRs to minimise delays in immigration, asylum and other cases that have already been refused permission to appeal by judges.’ Cart JRs are reviews launched against decisions by the Upper Tribunal – the UK’s highest court for administrative law appeals –, which now are no longer eligible for judicial review. Such decisions often concern matters of immigration and have allowed immigrants to challenge negative asylum decisions.



Elections: Disenfranchising the young, curtailing civil society

Arguably the most cynical attack on democracy that passed into law this week was the Elections Bill. Under cover of an alleged concern with increasing people’s confidence in the electoral system, the new Elections Act does three things: it introduces the need to show a photographic identity card to be able to vote; it gives the government the power to decide who can and cannot campaign or fund elections; and it reduces the Electoral Commission’s power to investigate electoral fraud (a good summary can be found here).

It is easy to show that the government has not introduced this law to offer British citizens ‘greater protection against election fraud’ or increase public trust in our democracy. Firstly, there is the inherent contradiction between the claim that voter IDs are necessary due to risks of election fraud, while at the same time stripping the Electoral Commission (EC) of its powers to investigate electoral fraud. If electoral fraud and trust in elections were a problem and the government were serious about addressing these issues, would it really weaken the EC? Secondly, there is the simple fact that voter fraud of the sort that voter IDs would prevent (i.e. pretending to be someone else at the polling station) is simply not an issue in this country. As Alina Rocha Menocal points out, ‘[b]etween 2015 and 2019, there were only 88 allegations of in-person voter fraud, out of a total of 153 million votes cast [a]nd the number of convictions is even smaller – a grand total of two convictions and one caution.’ (Rocha Menocal also notes the hypocrisy of Tory MPs who rebelled against the government over Covid19 health passes – comparing them to ‘Nazi Germany’ and claiming that “We are not a ‘papers please’ society” – while now supporting voter IDs).

So, clearly, rather than addressing voter fraud, the government pursues a different goal with this reform, which becomes clear when you look at the socio-economics of voters. It is a well-known fact that it is the poorest and least privileged people who tend not to have passports or IDs. They are therefore the most likely to stop voting when asked to produce an ID card. As such, the reform may be a preventive move by the Tories to make sure the electoral backlash is limited once its promises to the least well-off in the country have been betrayed.

That this reform is an attempt to disenfranchise certain segments of the electorate is further illustrated by the debates about what form of ID are permissible. While the law permits older person’s Oyster 60+ and bus passes as valid voter ID, the same does not apply to Student IDs and 18+ student Oyster cards. What explains that the Oyster 60+ is considered a secure form of ID, why but 18+ student Oyster cards are not? The most plausible explanation is that the government is not particularly keen on young people voting. And that, of course, is for good reasons. In the last General Election, only 22% of under 30s voted conservative, while the proportion is 62% amongst the 60+. So, for an old people’s party it makes perfect sense to discouraging young people from voting by putting additional obstacles in their way to the ballot box. Of course, the government is introducing the possibility for voters without ID to apply for a free local voter document from the Council. But we all know how such things tend to work out: Any additional obstacle to once ability to cast a ballot will create a disincentive to do so, increasing the likelihood of abstention.

There is a good chance that this strategy will work for the Tories. When Northern Ireland introduced voter IDs in 2003, turnout dropped by 2.3% at the next election. The UK as a whole had an electorate of roughly 44.5m people in 2019. If it experienced a reduction in turnout of a similar scale, that would mean that more than 1,000,000 fewer people might turn out to vote. If that drop is much stronger among those segments of the electorate who disproportionately vote for opposition parties, the Tories chance for re-election increase significantly.

Ironically – or rather cynically – the Spectator ran an article this week that praises the emerging benefits of Brexit. Clearly, the authors are struggling to come up with anything concrete to mention other than turning increasing non-EU immigration that I wrote about last week into a Brexit benefit. Yet, they do consider ‘restoring faith in democracy’ as one of the great achievements of Brexit. Indeed, the Spectator asks ‘Has Brexit succeeded in making voters feel more empowered?’ Unsurprisingly, the Spectator thinks the answer is yes. That is pure fantasy. The UK’s ‘first past the post’ (FPTP) electoral system implies that the country is literally always governed by a minority government – not in the usual sense of the term as a government that has less than 50% of the seats in parliament, but in the sense that virtually all British governments since the late 20th century have received less than 50% of the votes during the General Election. In other words, at the best of times the UK’s FPTP system means, most people are not represented by the government. The new electoral laws will only make matters worse for the reasons mentioned above. Therefore, an increasing number of mostly young people will feel ‘voiceless in Westminster.’

One reason for the Voter ID law may be that it has become more difficult for Tories to increase their electoral chances by redrawing the constituency maps (gerrymandering). An interesting article by Charles Pattie and David Rossiter shows that the secular trend of secure labour seats being in areas that tend to lose population, while secure conservative seats were in areas that gain in population size has stopped. As long as that trend was at work, constituency boundaries had to be changed to rebalance the number of seats from less densely populated labour seats to more densely populated conservative ones (because otherwise it would take less votes to elect a Labour MP than a Conservative MP), thus seemingly favouring Conservatives rather than Labour. But these trends have changed recently, which means that ‘it is no longer inevitable that reviews will tend to favour the Conservatives.’ Rather than population trends creating a bias against conservatives if left uncorrected, Pattie and Rossiter observe that the ‘main source of bias in elections over the last 30 years comes not from constituency size effects but from vote efficiency (and abstention).’ The last point is important: if redrawing the electoral map, becomes less favourable to the Conservatives, they may need additional ways in which to increase their chances of being re-elected, such as encouraging abstention by putting obstacles in the way of those segments of the population that tend to vote for Labour and other opposition parties.



Electoral Commission

The second element of the Elections Act that will undermine democracy is the subjection of the Electoral Commission to ‘strategic and policy control’ and the removal of the EC’s ability ‘to bring prosecutions against those who break electoral law relating to parties and campaigners.’ This means the EC cannot ‘take politicians to court over secret donations and illegal campaigning’ anymore, or to investigate electoral fraud independently; and if it does investigate, its work is subject to governmental guidance on specific cases. Here, it is important to note, that the new law does not subject the EC to parliamentary, but to governmental control. For instance, under the law the minister for the constitution to attend meetings of the Speaker’s Committee, the statutory body responsible for holding the Electoral Commission to account, further opening the door to government interference with its work. So, this is not a case of Parliament taking back control, but a case of the government further increasing its powers and isolating the governing party from accountability and scrutiny.



Campaigning

The third effect of the new law is that [t]he minister for the Cabinet Office will be unilaterally able to define what campaigning is and which groups can or cannot engage in the democratic process by campaigning or donating. According to David Howarth, former electoral commissioner, this gives the ‘government the ability to ban whole categories of organisations from campaigning at elections, without adequate parliamentary oversight,’ which he deems to constitute ‘a slippery slope to authoritarianism.’ Recent European history supports this concern.



Orbán’s ‘illiberal democracy’ project

The new laws the government has introduced should genuinely worry anyone who cares about democracy in the UK, but they become even more worrying when put in context of what has happened in other European countries in the past decades. Most importantly, the parallels between the ‘democratic backsliding’ in Hungary under Victor Orbán since 2010 and what Johnson’s Tories are doing in the UK are shocking.

Orbán’s attack on democracy started with the media, then moved on to judges and the courts, then civil society, and finally universities. Right after the election of 2010 Orbán’s government introduced a new Press Law, which created the National Media and Communications Authority that was invested with far-reaching powers ‘to impose heavy fines for vague infractions, including coverage that is unbalanced, or offensive to human dignity or common morals.’ He then proceeded to reshaping the media landscape by transferring ownership of news outlets to a foundation controlled by people close to his Fidesz party. In 2013, a law was adopted limiting power of constitutional court, including allowing the Court only “to challenge laws only on procedural grounds, not on their substance, and scrapping all decisions made by the court before 2012.” Like in the UK, where the Elections Act seems like a punishment for the EC for having held government to account on several occasions, the Hungarian law followed a Supreme Court ruling earlier the same year that blocked a Fidesz proposal to change voter registration rules in its favour. Then came attacks on NGOs and civil society organisations, which were both subject to public campaigns denouncing them as foreign agents and making them subject to surveillance and investigation by security services. In combination with a long list of other legal reforms, the result has been that ten years into his reign, Orbán’s Hungary has not become an ‘illiberal democracy, but rather it cannot be considered a democracy at all.

Indeed, by 2022 Orbán’s power has become so entrenched that even six opposition parties supporting the same candidate was not enough to prevent him from gaining a 2/3rd majority in parliament. Democratic backsliding does not necessarily mean that there are no elections. It means that the elections are stacked so much against opposition parties that whatever they do, the government cannot be removed from power through elections. That does not mean that that outcome is what ‘the people’ want. It means that the system is such that the voices of those people who have the ‘right’ opinion are being amplified, while those who have diverging opinions are being harassed, ridiculed, and ultimately drowned out by government propaganda.

It is also noteworthy that Orbán of course did not invent from scratch his strategy of turning Hungary into an ‘illiberal democracy.’ Rather, he had himself closely followed in the footsteps of one of his avowed idols: Russia’s Vladmir Putin.



What’s next for Britain? On a highway to Budapest-on-Thames

Of course, the details of Hungary’s and the UK’s path to illiberalism differ, as the policies adopted in each country were adapted to their specific contexts and existing political systems. Importantly, Johnson’s first move was not to try and bring the media under control. Presumably, because a large part of them is already supporting the right-wing fringe of the Tory party. Still, if the thesis that Johnson has put the UK on the path – indeed on a highway – to an ‘illiberal democracy’ is correct, then we can glean further insights from the Hungarian case to predict what will happen next.

While increasing their control over the media is not a key priority for the Tories, independent reporting still constitutes an annoyance that would better be stomped out. The increasing use of strategic lawsuits against public participation (SLAPP) against journalists is one sign of that starting to happen. However, the government’s assault on the BBC is an even clearer sign of the fact that the government is willing to crack down on dissenting voices in the media. On this blog, I have been very critical of the BBC’s coverage of Brexit-related issues (e.g. here). Admittedly, – due to my frustration with reporting for instance on labour shortages or lorry queues that mention the pandemic and global supply chain problems but not Brexit – at times my criticism has been too harsh. While the BBC has at times fallen short of what I would consider a critical and balanced view on the issue, it does remain a key pillar for British society and democracy. That conclusion is reinforced if comparing the BBC not to what I would ideally want to see journalists do, but to what else is out there in the British mediascape. In comparison to some of the private news outlets, the BBC has always been and remains a massively important source of affordable quality information and commentary. That status is increasingly under threat. Indeed, also this week the pro-Tory press celebrated the coming scrapping of the licence fee, which will mean the BBC will become less independent and more reliant on other sources of funding, which most likely will mean commercial goals – rather than quality journalism – will be driving the Corporation in the future.

There may be other parallels emerging from Johnson following the Orbán playbook, notably the willingness to interfere with universities in order to silence critical academic voices. Orbán has forced the Central European University to relocated from Hungary to Austria. The UK government has also shown that academic freedom is something it is willing to interfere with, as is illustrated by the attempt to have Vice Chancellors report people teaching Brexit in universities and by the imposition of its own version of ‘free speech’ on universities. As the government becomes more entrenched it is highly likely that such attacks will further increase, threatening academic freedom and science.



Another interesting effect of Orbán’s illiberalism is that it has arguably contribute to a ‘brain drain’ of young skilled workers from Hungary, which in turn has led to labour shortages diminishing the attractiveness of Hungary as a destination for foreign companies, especially in high value added manufacturing sectors. The ‘brain drain’ is partly explained by higher salaries in other EU countries, but arguably also related to the increasingly authoritarian political context that leads young Hungarians who are critical of the government to seek a better future abroad. The labour market has become so tight that the government felt compelled to introduce a law that allows employers to force employees to work overtime. Reducing workers’ rights to address home made labour shortages very much sounds like something that the Johnson government may soon copy from the Hungarian populists.



Labour Day – but not Labour’s week

With UK democracy under attack, where is the opposition in all of this? Sadly, it is nowhere to be seen. Rather, Labour is struggling to draw any benefits from the Tories self-inflicted wounds in the forms of a never ending stream of scandals (including one being found guilty of sexual assault and another one having to resign under pressure for having watched pornography in parliament). Rather, the Tories’ strategy to drag the Labour party down into the gutter with it seems to be working. Faced with inexcusable behaviours and scandals, the Conservatives’ strategy is to dig up dirt on oppositional MPs or craft comparable scandals involving opposition politicians to show the public that the other side is no better. This week, the Daily Mail revealed that Labour deputy Angela Rayner was present at the same occasion during lock-down where Labour leader Starmer had been photographed with a beer bottle in his hand. Durham police had already decided not to investigate the event, but Tory MPs are urging them to review the decision. Regardless of what happens next, the story will be enough to create a ‘Beergate’ scandal that can be used to minimise the government’s lockdown parties in Downing Street. Using Beergate to counter Partygate, may be a good electoral strategy for the Tories, but it will result in many voters feeling reinforced in their belief that ‘all politicians are the same.’ What that does, of course, is sounding the death knell of democracy as Alexandra Hall pointed out.



What leaves one even more desperate in the current situation is that Labour does not only let itself be dragged into the same mud that the government is wallowing in, but also do they not seem particularly concerned about the threat to democracy that the Tories are posing. Thus, during the vote on the elections Bill in the House of Lords earlier this week, just 67 of the 168 Labour peers showed up to oppose the government. I am yet to find a plausible explanation for such a poor turnout on such an important matter.



What’s Brexit got to do with it?

Brexit is now an officially recognised as a disaster, with the Brexit Opportunities and Government Efficiency Minister (BOGEMin) Rees-Mogg now openly admitting that introducing the border checks on imports made necessary by hard Brexit were an act of self-harm. Brexit is particularly disastrous in economic terms as Chris Grey has documented this week. But of course, the goal of Brexit was never economic. Its real goal is much better encapsulated in the ‘taking back control’ slogan.

Except that the leading Brexiters’ intention never was to give back control to ‘Britons,’ ‘the people,’ or even to Parliament. The only ones ‘taking back control’ are the motley crew of libertarian anti-state rentiers, aristocrats, and political chancers who have made a career out of stirring up hatred and resentment to divide the country and entrench their own power and wealth. Without Brexit many of these people would not be where they are today. Brexit is the only reason why Johnson has become PM; and few people would put any money on any of the current cabinet ministers being in the position they are had they been appointed based on skill, experience, or capability, rather than unconditional loyalty to the PM and the hard Brexit project.

So, personal career advancement was clearly one reason why certain people turned Brexiters. Yet, this week revealed another, more substantive reason, why exciting the EU was instrumental for the Brexit coalition to achieve their goals; namely to remove any barriers to their pursuit of unlimited wealth and power.

Of course, the EU has done too little to prevent Orbán from turning Hungary’s weak and young, but still promising, democracy into a quasi-authoritarian state. Indeed, Orbán’s approach to the EU has been a very astute one. He uses criticism of ‘Brussels’ as an effective rhetorical device to create an external enemy, while not criticising the EU itself very much (which remains popular in Hungary) and while continuing drawing large sums of money from the EU structural funds that can be used for his populist domestic policies shoring up electoral support. At first glance, the UK’s authoritarians’ approach was less habile in the sense that they cut themselves off EU funding and created a whole lot of economic problems that make their populism economically more difficult to implement. On the other hand, exiting the EU has cut the government free from any – however weak – influence of the EU over democratic backsliding in the UK. In the Hungarian case, the EU does now seem to take things a bit more seriously launching a Rule of Law procedure against the country that could result in cutting EU funding. Thanks to Brexit, the UK’s authoritarians do not have to fear any such direct interference by the EU.

This post should not be read as ‘Conservatives bashing.’ I am actually not opposed to conservatives or conservatism per se. I have read books by Roger Scruton and fully accept that conservatism is a perfectly legitimate position to have in a democracy, even if I do not share many of its values. But what we are currently witnessing is not about democratic conservatism. This is about something very different. Namely anti-democratic authoritarianism. There may still be people who believe that the promise of ‘illiberal democracy,’ which as has become clear this week is part of the Brexit project, is somehow a popular corrective to a cosmopolitan liberal elite project that ‘ordinary people’ cannot identify with. It is nothing of the sort. ‘Illiberal democracy’ is a rhetorical device to sell authoritarianism and autocracy to voters in a democratic system. It is a way of making the Turkey vote for Christmas. The ultimate goal of the project is purely and simply to entrench the wealth and power of a small elite who own most of our media and control the Tory party and government. This week has shown that they will stop at nothing to achieve that goal. With the changes to our democratic institutions that they pushed through this week, they have come an important step closer to achieving that goal.



Readers may find it hard to believe that a democratically elected government in a Western European country would have such sinister plans; and I was often wondering if I am being overly pessimistic. But this past week has dissipated any remaining doubts. The writing is on the wall. The signs are too obvious and too familiar to someone who has spent considerable time analysing how democratic backsliding happened elsewhere. The people in Hungary in 2010 did not believe it; The people in Russia in 2000 did not believe it either. They thought that there were things Orbán and Putin would not do. They thought that their governments’ thirst for power and wealth had some limits. They thought there was some genuine concern for the ‘common people.’ They were wrong. It is high time that we in Britain learn the lessons from those experiences and understand that soon there will be nothing that can stop the power grab by the Tory party. When that happens, Brexit will go down in history as the project that was meant to wreck the EU, but instead wrecked one of the World’s oldest democracies.

[arista]

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[arista]

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[arista]

For Slim

https://twitter.com/sweeternigel/status/1342119459364941827

[arista]

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[arista]

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[arista]

[Post-Brexit scheme that will give visas
to graduates from the world's leading universities,
including Harvard and Yale,
in a bid to "put ability and talent first".]

https://livecenterimagesnorth.azureedge.net/lc-images-2021/lcimg-573793aa-6e68-4c1d-8238-0b05409783e1.jpg?bypass-service-worker&

[arista]

Back In the Day.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FU-kskVaQAE0vMX?format=jpg&name=small

[arista]

BBC Text :
[Confederation of British Industry is warning
the government's threat to override the
Northern Ireland Protocol "is forcing companies to
think again about investing in Britain and dragging
down the economy".
Its director general Tony Danker says global
firms are thinking it might not be the
time to invest in UK right now.]

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[arista]

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[arista]

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[arista]

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[arista]

The EU has stated this morning,
that they will take Legal action
against the Johnson N. I. Plan

They view us
as breaking laws

https://news.sky.com/story/eu-begins-legal-action-after-illegal-move-by-uk-to-override-northern-ireland-protocol-12634288

[arista]

https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1537001448822784002

[Crimson Dynamo]

Attorney General criticises BBC over Brexit coverage
Suella Braverman, the Attorney General, has accused the BBC of framing the Government as “always malevolent” and the EU as “the honest broker”.

DT

[arista]

https://twitter.com/PeterHoskinsTV/status/1539931728684683268

[arista]

The Labour Leader
is giving a speech today
on Brexit.

Starmer is saying make it work?


Politics Live Early 10:15AM BBC2HD
confirmed he is saying
we are not going back into the EU.
He wants Brexit to work.


https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1543872087248486403

[arista]

This is from what they said in 2019
No date on this?

On their Site today
https://labour.org.uk/manifesto-2019/the-final-say-on-brexit/

[Labour will give the people the final say on Brexit.
Within three months of coming to power,
a Labour government will secure a sensible deal.
And within six months, we will put that deal to
a public vote alongside the option to remain.
A Labour government will implement whatever
the people decide.]




Thats needs to be Deleted.
Pathetic that is on the
Labour Site Today

[arista]

https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1543872087248486403


I Tweeted Starmer
with his 2019 plan
still on the Labour Site.


https://labour.org.uk/manifesto-2019/the-final-say-on-brexit/

[arista]

https://twitter.com/aristatibb7/status/1543901077384429570



https://labour.org.uk/manifesto-2019/the-final-say-on-brexit/

[The Slim Reaper]

Arista and Keir chatting it up on twitter :laugh: did you slide into his dm's?

[arista]

Arista and Keir chatting it up on twitter :laugh: did you slide into his dm's?


Look Slim
I searched for what he is saying


After watching a Live Debate on it
BBC2HD

Went to the Labour Site - Official
found out he still wants a Vote?

[The Slim Reaper]

Look Slim
I searched for what he is saying


After watching a Live Debate on it
BBC2HD

Went to the Labour Site - Official
found out he still wants a Vote?

Look Arista

OK.

[bots]

any future government could take us back into the eu, or customs union or anything .... i said that right from when we had the vote :laugh:

[arista]

Yes but today
Starmer is not
going back in now


He claims he will make Brexit Work.



He wants to get Elected

[arista]

LibDems want to go back

But they do not have enough MP's

They are Hiding their plans

[Sticks]

What is the difference between Boris and Kier's policies

I don't know either :joker:

[arista]

https://twitter.com/CatharineHoey/status/1543977271681339392

[arista]

Starmer is to do
this new speech
Tonight.


Confirmed Live on Times Radio DAB.

[arista]

Starmer Now Live


Central London.

Doing his Brexit Speech.

He wants Brexit to Work


SkyNewsHD
BBCnewsHD

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FW1-V99X0AAuzx4?format=jpg&name=900x900

[arista]

HE did not take Questions

[arista]

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[arista]

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[bots]

so sort the same things that the tories are currently trying to fix?

[Nicky91]

so sort the same things that the tories are currently trying to fix?

yeah but only difference is that they aren't stuck up upper class morons

[bots]

yeah but only difference is that they aren't stuck up upper class morons

yeah keir is a normal working class lad

[arista]

https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1544197469105528832

[arista]

Finally, Left Winger LBC 10AM show


Is debating Starmer's new Brexit plan

[arista]

The Anti Brexit Paper



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[arista]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-aab47731-dc40-441f-a404-6f01d76f8c25.jpg?bypass-service-worker&

[arista]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-094a90c7-ef5f-4320-a60f-79e2bd691f96.jpg?bypass-service-worker&

[arista]

Reports
4 Booths that check the passports
working out 14.


At Dover
tells you France is making this go slow

[The Slim Reaper]

Reports
4 Booths that check the passports
working out 14.


At Dover
tells you France is making this go slow

We don't have all our border agents filling up every booth either, and it's 4 out of 10, not 14. This was the brexit you were warned about. We took back control and wanted to be treated like a 3rd country. We got what we wanted.

[arista]

Yes the French do not have enough staff
due to Covid-19

[The Slim Reaper]

Yes the French do not have enough staff
due to Covid-19

No. Borders never run full staff quotas. If covid never happened this would be exactly the same. At some point you're going to have to admit you were conned and accept that everything you were told brexit would be has turned out to be a lie, as I told you it would. You're welcome. Just need a few years to pass and we can end this nightmare by getting back in.

[arista]

Slim we are never going back into the EU.

In order to join again, we have to adopt the Poxy €uro

So Bollocks to that.

[bots]

Slim we are never going back into the EU.

In order to join again, we have to adopt the Poxy €uro

So Bollocks to that.

we can still join the eu customs union without that and that is inevitable within the next 5 years once the tories get booted out at the next election

[Sticks]

By whom

Labour is wholly unelectable.

In fact Labour are so bad that at General election after General election, the people would rather have the Tories. It is just like in the 1980's when Labour leaders were so unpopular, the country would rather have Thatcher.

Something people forget to remember...

[The Slim Reaper]

Fcuking terrorists are destroying this country.

1572169020958281730

[bots]

the problem is that American and UK politics are now out of alignment and given that Trump will likely get back in 2 years from now, and labour will likely win the next election here, that's not going to change for close on a decade :laugh:

[arista]

Yes Slim

Biden hates the North Ireland mess.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Shrewd move by liz
kicking biden into touch

[The Slim Reaper]

Yes Slim

Biden hates the North Ireland mess.

Leave promised that we'd be wealthier, with better TA's. We've decimated our trade, made everyone poorer, and there is no end in sight. Trump wanted to fleece us, like NZ did to us. We're a total embarrassment.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Leave promised that we'd be wealthier, with better TA's. We've decimated our trade, made everyone poorer, and there is no end in sight. Trump wanted to fleece us, like NZ did to us. We're a total embarrassment.

Yesterday called and begged to differ

When (all) politicians promise the earth at elections and in refs you dont actually believe that people take them on their word?

that would be very naive

https://i.redd.it/dn9uo6pbp4g41.png
https://www.markpack.org.uk/files/2016/10/Liam-Byrne-there-is-no-money-left-note-790x378.png

[The Slim Reaper]

What does that mean, LT? That note is the kind of note chancellors leave each other after every switch, only tories tried to make it political. Since then, they have exploded the debt, more than doubling it before the pandemic even hit, we have the slowest recovery in the G7, we've lost our biggest trading partner (the EU) and replaced it with nothing, and you're posting 12 year old nonsense as though it's a gotcha :laugh:

[arista]

Slim I wish you caught Ch4HDnews tonight
(Live in the Leeds Studio)
around 7.35PM.

Although workers went home due to Brexit,
they were due to return
Official Government Contract,
to a Good Quality Pig Farmer
but then in 2020 China's Covid stopped their return.

My Point is, although you are right on some Brexit points
you fail to mention how China's Covid-19 has
messed up all our Farmers,
Far Worse.

[The Slim Reaper]

Even the Telegraph is finally admitting the truth.

1581289800774000640

[The Slim Reaper]

1590660548257280000

[Crimson Dynamo]

1590660548257280000

:facepalm:

every pub in the UK is suffering due to our hysterical adoption of Chinese communist lockdown overreaction

brexit was 6 years ago, let the obsession go ffs

https://content.invisioncic.com/Mrangmedia/emoticons/bornacraphead.png

[The Slim Reaper]

:facepalm:

every pub in the UK is suffering due to our hysterical adoption of Chinese communist lockdown overreaction

brexit was 6 years ago, let the obsession go ffs

https://content.invisioncic.com/Mrangmedia/emoticons/bornacraphead.png

Bless your little heart.

:pat:

[The Slim Reaper]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FhTUlF5WAAQPUwi?format=jpg&name=small

[The Slim Reaper]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/brexit-a-major-cause-of-uk-s-return-to-austerity-says-senior-economist/ar-AA146dLO?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=74cd7d96dca040ac81664d478023e537

Brexit a major cause of UK’s return to austerity, says senior economist

Brexit is the ultimate reason why the UK now faces a fresh round of austerity, a former interest rate-setter at the Bank of England has said.

“The UK economy as a whole has been permanently damaged by Brexit,” Michael Saunders, a former external member of the central bank’s Monetary Policy Committee said in an interview with Bloomberg TV.

“It’s reduced the economy’s potential output significantly, eroded business investment,” he said, adding: “If we hadn’t had Brexit, we probably wouldn’t be talking about an austerity budget this week.”

“The need for tax rises, spending cuts wouldn’t be there, if Brexit hadn’t reduced the economy’s potential output so much.”

Saunders joined the rate-setting committee shortly after the result of the Brexit referendum in 2016 and left the role in August this year.

He said the “main legacy of that period” was weak economic output.

The prime minister, Rishi Sunak, and the chancellor, Jeremy Hunt, have both warned that the autumn statement will probably include spending cuts and tax rises.

Hunt, who is to address parliament on Thursday, said last week that there would be a “tough road ahead”.

1592152130433216512

[The Slim Reaper]

1592923964745330688

[bots]

it's not all caused by brexit, but it's flattened the economy making it difficult for us to ride out the storm when times are tough

[Zizu]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/brexit-a-major-cause-of-uk-s-return-to-austerity-says-senior-economist/ar-AA146dLO?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=74cd7d96dca040ac81664d478023e537

Brexit a major cause of UK’s return to austerity, says senior economist

Brexit is the ultimate reason why the UK now faces a fresh round of austerity, a former interest rate-setter at the Bank of England has said.

“The UK economy as a whole has been permanently damaged by Brexit,” Michael Saunders, a former external member of the central bank’s Monetary Policy Committee said in an interview with Bloomberg TV.

“It’s reduced the economy’s potential output significantly, eroded business investment,” he said, adding: “If we hadn’t had Brexit, we probably wouldn’t be talking about an austerity budget this week.”

“The need for tax rises, spending cuts wouldn’t be there, if Brexit hadn’t reduced the economy’s potential output so much.”

Saunders joined the rate-setting committee shortly after the result of the Brexit referendum in 2016 and left the role in August this year.

He said the “main legacy of that period” was weak economic output.

The prime minister, Rishi Sunak, and the chancellor, Jeremy Hunt, have both warned that the autumn statement will probably include spending cuts and tax rises.

Hunt, who is to address parliament on Thursday, said last week that there would be a “tough road ahead”.

1592152130433216512


Everyone seems to say that it’s a world economy issue caused my Putin’s invasion !?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[The Slim Reaper]

Everyone seems to say that it’s a world economy issue caused my Putin’s invasion !?!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

No they don't, really. Obviously that isn't helping, but even before the invasion we were recovering from the pandemic worse than the rest of the G7, and the BoE have also previously said that brexit is worse for our economy than the the pandemic, so these other factors are definitely having a major impact, but no other country is dealing with the self-harm of brexit on top.

[Sticks]

Project fear

Lies that Satan himself, the father of lies would hesitate and baulk at spreading...

[arista]

Slim
as the Nice Lady MP states
we have not had time to sort this.
Last night BBC1HD

So allow us time Slim.

1593387355787984897

[arista]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-2c0944b4-8726-4def-bf59-9be318a286fe.jpeg

[arista]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-2c58e2bf-f3eb-46b4-bef2-9efff4028a70.png

[arista]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-b2638037-888b-4575-9578-1cc5a33de29b.png

[arista]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-74beb859-869a-4729-aa07-b35427f05171.png

[arista]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-2c0944b4-8726-4def-bf59-9be318a286fe.jpeg


Today the Prime Minister Live
at the CBI in Birmingham,
Confirmed this Sunday Times
is Fake.

He is not Mulling over former PM's angles


He will allow Qualified workers via Visa System by the UK.

[arista]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-f16f48b0-98c5-4f48-826e-7c4b2ba411cc.png

[bots]

Brexit has added £210 to the average household food bill in the two years to the end of 2021, new research suggests.

Academics at the London School of Economics found that the cost of food imported from Europe went up because of extra red tape and checks.

It said that the changes for items going across the border had pushed food prices up by 6% to £5.84bn overall.

Price rises hit poorest households hardest because they spend more of their pay packets on food, it added.

But it noted one benefit seen since Brexit was reduced competition for food producers in Britain.

The BBC has contacted the Department for International Trade for comment.

Researchers at its Centre for Economic Performance (CEP) looked at data tracking the flow of trade and prices of food products between the UK and the European Union (EU) to work out how shoppers were being affected by the UK's exit.

Their calculations sought to isolate the effects of Brexit and separate them out from other supply chain issues that caused disruption during the pandemic.

It blamed the increase in food prices on a rise in "non-tariff barriers" on trade between the UK and the EU, which include things like new customs checks at the borders, new paperwork requirements and broader measures affecting the movement of animals and plants.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63821133

[Sticks]

Fake News - Project Fear on steroids

[The Slim Reaper]

Tried to warn these noobs they were hurting themselves, but when folks are so hateful they will hurt their own pockets to try and stick it to desperate folks in dinghies, the country has big problems.

[GiRTh]

wO2lWmgEK1Y

[Cherie]

Be careful what you vote for or dont vote for :laugh:

[arista]

The Vote on the EU in or out
brought in millions who have never voted before now

[arista]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-17eee586-743d-4d45-8e86-cea902849aa0.jpeg

[arista]

[Hundreds of voluntary organisations have been forced to
shut up shop or scale back operations because
of government delays in replacing European Union funding,
according to the front page of The Guardian.]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-73ceae2a-a2a1-4d63-8c75-559dd9d909db.jpeg



*

[Nicky91]

Be careful what you vote for or dont vote for :laugh:

oh well, i don't feel sorry for you guys (at all) and don't you dare come crawling back now

you guys back then were so confident you would be better off on your own, i'm sure you'll feel the same confidence in a few years from now how to get back up on your own

*insert sarcasm*

:hehe:

[arista]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-af3c77b0-16ca-4ba6-95a6-8e4ae1b516a4.jpeg

[arista]

The Online Paper

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-10745145-0ef6-47bc-a64f-108254ee8b02.jpeg

[arista]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-1eff425b-67ee-4f49-8b9f-60907f6323be.jpeg

[arista]

Covid has Destroyed Brexit.

Debate toady on Nick Ferrari Ch5HD Extra 12:30PM


Yasmin Ali Brown the Remoaner
never mentions Covid-19.

[arista]

Rishi Sunak’s Brexit deal for Northern Ireland
formally signed off with EU

Joint statement hails ‘positive approach’
as Windsor framework

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/24/rishi-sunak-brexit-deal-northern-ireland-formally-signed-off-eu

[Sticks]

Luckily the DUP will continue to veto Storemont

No concessions
No Compromise
No Surrender!!

[arista]

Luckily the DUP will continue to veto Storemont

No concessions
No Compromise
No Surrender!!



Yes London need to set up
a Emergency Government in Northern Ireland.

As people need a Government to Function.

[Sticks]

We need to scrap that unconditional surrender to the IRA called the Good Friday (We surrender to the IRA and to all men of blood and we promise to give in to terrorist blackmail at the very first opportunity) Agreement.

[arista]

[The Sunday Telegraph also reports Ms Braverman
has signalled that she is "prepared to ignore
European judges" to start deportation
flights to Rwanda,
as she prepares to
"face down her critics" this week.]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/BD1F/production/_129451484_sundaytelegraph-nc.png.webp

[arista]

[The Sunday Telegraph also reports Ms Braverman
has signalled that she is "prepared to ignore
European judges" to start deportation
flights to Rwanda,
as she prepares to
"face down her critics" this week.]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/BD1F/production/_129451484_sundaytelegraph-nc.png.webp

[Cherie]

Luckily the DUP will continue to veto Storemont

No concessions
No Compromise
No Surrender!!

We need to scrap that unconditional surrender to the IRA called the Good Friday (We surrender to the IRA and to all men of blood and we promise to give in to terrorist blackmail at the very first opportunity) Agreement.

_5UhRcpyLyc

[Cherie]

ksq07pbEABA

[Cherie]

The IRA would not have existed if the then English kept their greedy mitts off Sticks

[arista]

BBC News Text :
[The government has U-turned on plans to scrap
all remaining European Union laws
by the end of the year - but the Telegraph leads with
claims that the civil service is to blame.
Kemi Badenoch, the business secretary,
blamed Whitehall officials for not "pursuing the
meaningful reform" the government committed
itself to under Boris Johnson. Around 600 laws
will be revoked rather than the 4,000 pledged.]


https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/1C9E/production/_129662370_telegraph-nc.png.webp

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fv6xD1sWYAA5elF?format=jpg&name=small

He had a go at Victoria Derbyshire
on Newsnight.

Victoria told him
she stands by her words

https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1656982803505123328

[arista]

BBC News Text :
[The i paper leads with the results of its own polling
into Britain's economy and Brexit.
It reports 63% of those surveyed believe
leaving the EU is fuelling food price inflation,
and 57% say Brexit is having a negative
impact on Britain's economy.]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/6CC7/production/_129974872_the_i-nc.png.webp

[arista]

https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1672011512632975361

[arista]

https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1672010125727637506

[arista]

https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1672008175816519680

[arista]

https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1672004735640174592

[arista]

An Angry Reform Party member

https://twitter.com/bbcquestiontime/status/1672002942587793409

[arista]

If you want to Rejoin the EU.

You lose your Pounds/Pence

They insist, you use their €uro.


Why is no one debating that?

[arista]

BBC News Text:
[The prime minister has been urged to talk
up Brexit, says the Daily Express,
as it reports a series of MPs have warned
that he must move on from
"the gloom and doom" agenda of remainers.
Rishi Sunak is being encouraged to remember
what won the Tories an 80-seat victory in
the 2019 election, says the paper.
"We are the party of Brexit and opportunity,"
says Conservative Brendan Clarke-Smith.]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/C37A/production/_130324005_express-nc.png.webp

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/C827/production/_130393215_sunday_express-nc.png.webp

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/B7A1/production/_130790074_croppedeex14p001-nc.png.webp

[arista]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-b87f7904-a413-424c-874a-d23ff9dd4805.png

[arista]

The Remoaners

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F5pEF3QWgAAN7E8?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Crimson Dynamo]

1705567971035299878?s=20

[arista]

Yes LT
Clever Ben Leo
TV Producer.
At the silly event today in Central London.

[Cherie]

I miss Kirk :bawling:

[arista]

I miss Kirk :bawling:


We all do.

[Crimson Dynamo]

1727984190845595776?s=20

[arista]

Yes LT

Good news
3 New Electric Models now confirmed to be built
in the UK by this Japan Firm.

[Nissan and its partners have announced a
£2bn plan to build three electric car models
at its Sunderland factory.

The Japanese firm will build electric Qashqai
and Juke models at the plant alongside
the next generation of the electric Leaf,
which is already produced there.
The scheme could help preserve the jobs
of about 6,000 workers directly,
and thousands more across the UK.

Nissan said that alongside this,
a major new battery plant known
as a "gigafactory" will also be needed.

This is in addition to the current factory
adjacent to the car plant, and a further
gigafactory already being built
by its partner, AESC.]


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67517522

[arista]

https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-7ed763ce-af42-46c7-b886-b2a7d0eafc20.png

[arista]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/F90C/production/_132865736_cropexpress0803.png-nc.png.webp

[Nicky91]

one good thing for the UK, no longer being a part of the EU

not having to deal with Mark Rutte's ''bottom rock'' obsession, when he'll get elected as new european committee president