Coronavirus Outbreak

[Zizu]

So why are the Government’s Covid figures only including ‘deaths up to 28 days’ ?


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[Nicky91]

https://www.thelocal.de/20201111/german-health-minister-sees-sign-of-change-in-germanys-coronavirus-situation

Germany's Health Minister Jens Spahn (luckily he has recovered from covid too) sees signs of change but there is work to be done yet

"What we are seeing is that the momentum has slowed down considerably in the last few days," said Spahn on Wednesday to German broadcasters.

"It is still rising, but it is rising less strongly. This is encouraging at first, but it is not enough."

Spahn said that after two or three days of positive development it's still too early to speak of a "turnaround".

"These are definitely signs of change, but not yet a trend reversal," the Christian Democrat (CDU) politician said.

The Minister also referred to the increasing number of coronavirus patients in intensive care units and the rising number of deaths. In order to get a grip on this, the infection figures have go go down.

"We have to reduce the figures and we have to reduce them significantly. Only if they remain low for a longer period of time will the target be reached," he said.

What are the latest numbers?

According to the latest data from the Robert Koch Institute (RKI) on Wednesday, 18,487 new corona infections were reported nationwide within 24 hours.

That is 3,155 more cases than on Tuesday. Compared to Wednesday last week, the figure is slightly higher. At that time the number of reported new infections was 17,214. A record peak was reached on Saturday with 23,399 cases reported.

The nationwide 7-day incidence of new corona infections has fallen slightly for the first time since the decision to impose a new lockdown.

While the incidence rate was 94 new infections per 100,000 inhabitants in seven days on the day of the lockdown decision at the end of October, it has risen steadily since then, reaching a peak of 139.1 on Tuesday.

Now the increase has stopped for the first time, falling slightly to 138.1 on Wednesday. The government's aim is to bring the incidence rate back down to below 50.

The number of deaths related to the virus rose by 261 to a total of 11,767 by Wednesday. There were 154 deaths reported within 24 hours on Tuesday. The RKI estimates that around 454,800 people have now recovered from Covid-19.

There is a partial shutdown across Germany during November in a bid to get the coronavirus numbers down. Restaurants, bars, cafes, gyms and cultural facilities are all closed until the end of the month, and contact restrictions are in place.

Christmas holidays may be extended in NRW

Meanwhile, Armin Laschet, state premier of North Rhine-Westphalia, has proposed extending the Christmas holidays in the western state. In return, the two days off for carnival would be cancelled.

This is a "conceivable possibility", Laschet said on WDR television.

In concrete terms this would mean that the school holidays would not begin on December 23rd – but on Monday December 21st.

The state government will discuss this with various associations, said Laschet. The idea is that this would limit contacts more before Christmas.

"However, this does not provide any security either," stressed Laschet.

Spahn said this idea was a welcome part of the debate. He did however stress that there is no scope for larger Christmas celebrations this year.

[arista]

1326587022941839362

[MTVN]

Over 600 deaths and 33,000 cases recorded in Italy today, still not in lockdown

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/9EDB/production/_115376604_times-front-page-nc.png

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/E6BB/production/_115376095_ft-nc.png

[arista]

https://e3.365dm.com/20/11/768x432/skynews-news-papers_5169486.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20201112061420

Now Dogs to stop mixing,
because of possible Covid
they will not like that.

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/C5EB/production/_115376605_daily-star-nc.png

[joeysteele]

Even on only those diagnosed in the last 28 days on the government's last instruction of recording deaths from covid.
We are again to the the 50,000 level and now exceeded it.

It's scandalous.

Even worse that someone diagnosed with covid on the 1st November, that were they to die on or after the 30th November.
They wouldn't even be recorded as an official death, on the government's listing, as a covid death.

Another scandal in my view.

[Nicky91]

well

Netherlands:

According to RTL Nieuws, the Dutch government is thinking about allowing an experiment to host corona proof events. The idea is to test two soccer matches, an indoor event, a business conference, a theater show and two outdoor festivals. They will probably decide on these experiments next Friday. If the experiments are a success, events will again be possible with more visitors than the current maximum. An occupancy rate of 60 to 70 percent of the normal number of visitors is envisaged.

For the indoor event, the idea is to host a concert for 1300 people in Ahoy or Ziggo Dome with visitors being divided into 'bubbles' of up to 250 people. Each 'bubble' has its own toilet and bar. The idea is that it should be possible to safely release the one and a half meters distance within the bubble. Visitors are screened for up to two weeks afterwards to see whether or not they have contracted the coronavirus.

Conditions for events
Behavior: visitors are advised to have no contact with high risk groups up to 14 days after visiting the event
Triage: visitors need to fill out a questionnaire, there will be temperature measurement on entry, and random quick corona tests
Air quality: there must be good ventilation
Visitors: enter at different times, get fixed assigned seat
Cleaning: regular disinfection of surfaces, hand disinfection
Vulnerable groups: people over the age of 55 are excluded from participation


this sort of experimenting is necessary to see what we can or cannot do by next year, also useful to test for which scenario we are going for the eurovision song contest too by May

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Emnr8bOW8AA6RQI?format=jpg&name=small

[bots]

what doe a learner driver speeding have to do with covid?

[Nicky91]

netherlands todays numbers

5,658 new cases (240 less than yesterday)

220 new hospitalisations (10 less than yesterday, 2,201 in total)

31 new ICU patients (5 less than yesterday, 595 in total)

89 new deaths (13 more than yesterday)

[arista]

what doe a learner driver speeding have to do with covid?


Stress of the times.

But note the Bottom Right Corner
Covid Story.

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Emnsv2AXcAM-t0a?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Vanessa]

Over 600 deaths and 33,000 cases recorded in Italy today, still not in lockdown

I heard they could go into lockdown next week.

[arista]

Black people 'twice as likely to catch coronavirus'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54907473

[Black people are twice as likely as white people to
catch the coronavirus,
a study of 18 million people suggests.

The research also indicates Asian people are
1.5 times more likely than white people
to be infected - and may be more likely
to need intensive care.
Researchers say their findings are of
"urgent public-health importance" and raise questions
about how vaccines will be prioritised within at-risk groups.
The work, in EClinical Medicine, adds support
to other studies' findings.]

[Niamh.]

Black people 'twice as likely to catch coronavirus'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54907473

[Black people are twice as likely as white people to
catch the coronavirus,
a study of 18 million people suggests.

The research also indicates Asian people are
1.5 times more likely than white people
to be infected - and may be more likely
to need intensive care.
Researchers say their findings are of
"urgent public-health importance" and raise questions
about how vaccines will be prioritised within at-risk groups.
The work, in EClinical Medicine, adds support
to other studies' findings.]

How strange, I wonder why that is? But yeah if that's the case they should probably be ahead of white people in the vaccine queue

[Cherie]

How strange, I wonder why that is? But yeah if that's the case they should probably be ahead of white people in the vaccine queue

I think it is because of multi generational households, they are more likely to live in family groups than other ethnicities, my friend lives with her children and grandchildren, it's her and her husbands house, but the family move in until they can afford their own, it happens a lot in the Asian community so less likely to be able to socially distance at home, that is my take anyway, there are probably other factors like they are more likely to be practicing their faith and attending mosques/Temple regularly

[Vanessa]

Apparently the R rate is going down.
This is great news!

[Zizu]

How strange, I wonder why that is? But yeah if that's the case they should probably be ahead of white people in the vaccine queue



I thought the theory was that they’re simply more likely to be working on the front line occupations .. surgeons/ medics , doctors / nurses ( at the same time getting huge viral loads of COVID ) and care homes plus more likely to have multi generations in homes ... plus lower vitamin D levels generally speaking .


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[arista]

Business Secretary Alok Sharma will host
a press conference in Downing Street today at 5pm.

with
Professor Stephen Powis
(national medical director for England, in the National Health Service)




https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article22826435.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/0_Business-Secretary-Alok-Sharma-Defends-PM-Over-Covid-19-Rules-Mistake.jpg

[Zizu]

Apparently the R rate is going down.

This is great news!



Bizarrely The Telegraph are running that story but showing that today’s infection rate is UP 6% ( 33,000 new infections today)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201112/c0041cf27ae614e80f61af03c68cae96.plisthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201112/74fd5f7476fe4a1bb9071300f98fcaf3.plist


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[arista]

33,470 tested today with Covid-19.


Patients in hospital
14,030




Patients on ventilation
1,268


595 have died
50,365 Total UK deaths

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

[arista]

Live Downing St.


BBCNewsHD has the man waving his hands
for the deaf
They are not putting this onto BBC1HD


SkyNewsHD does not.

[Zizu]

Bizarrely The Telegraph are running that story but showing that today’s infection rate is UP 6% ( 33,000 new infections today)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201112/c0041cf27ae614e80f61af03c68cae96.plisthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201112/74fd5f7476fe4a1bb9071300f98fcaf3.plist


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No idea where that 6% increase comes from ... 33,000 new cases today .. only 22,000 yesterday !!


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[arista]

Now the NHS Chief is talking
10 Downing St Conference

[Cherie]

No idea where that 6% increase comes from ... 33,000 new cases today .. only 22,000 yesterday !!


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Aren't they testing the whole of Liverpool so that will screw the numbers?

[arista]

33,470 tested today with Covid-19.


Patients in hospital
14,030




Patients on ventilation
1,268


595 have died (Thats from Yesterday)
50,365 Total UK deaths (Thats from Yesterday)

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/


Posting Again
As today is the Highest ever Tested ,
even before it started (Ch4HDnews)
Also they have Not posted todays Death amounts
that link used Yesterdays numbers


33,470 tested today with Covid-19.

[AnnieK]

I think the mass testing going on was always going to wield these kinds of results. As they role out the quick testing it will continue to result in high numbers as people who are asymptomatic who wouldn't necessarily get tested will get a positive result.

[arista]

I think the mass testing going on was always going to wield these kinds of results. As they role out the quick testing it will continue to result in high numbers as people who are asymptomatic who wouldn't necessarily get tested will get a positive result.


Yes the Mass testing gets more results.


But on that Official link
they posted yesterdays Death numbers

Today we have not had the death numbers ?

[bots]

i heard the take up of testing was really low in liverpool, so i don't think the numbers are coming from there

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/11/12/17/article-8942973-35606956-789_964x543.jpg

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/12B3D/production/_115450667_daily-mail-nc.png

[Strictly Jake]

I have to work I dont get a choice yet when im out and about everywhere seems really busy almost normal. Definitely not the same as the first lockdown. Also I was on the bus unfortunately a single decker going home the same time schools go home, the bus driver was letting everyone and his mate on! One of the schoolkids sat next to me as the bus was full I wasnt happy as thats not social distanced and an old lady got on 2 rows in front of me mask on her chin(why do so many people do that) coughing away!

So no wonder the rates are getting higher!

[Nicky91]

netherlands todays numbers

6,109 new cases (458 more than yesterday)

170 new hospitalisations (50 less than yesterday, 2,181 in total)

32 new ICU patients (1 more than yesterday, 609 in total)

54 new deaths (35 less than yesterdays 89)

[arista]

[At least five passengers on the Cruise Sea Dream 1
have tested positive for coronavirus
The ship is docked in Barbados with passengers
and many crew quarantining]

[The ship's 53 passengers - 37 Americans and
16 other from the UK, Austria, Denmark, Norway,
Sweden and Germany - as well as non-essential
crew are quarantining in their cabins after the cruise
was halted and the ship returned to dock in Barbados.]


Great these mega ships are trying again.
Shame Covid-19 was brought on by some of them.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8945863/At-FIVE-coronavirus-cases-aboard-cruise-ship-set-sail-Caribbean-March.html

[arista]

Northern Ireland
has extended parts of it Lockdown
for another week



3 Zones in Scotland have moved into Tier 3


ITV1HD news.

[bots]

Footballer Mo Salah has contracted the virus, according to the Egyptian Football Association (EFA).

A tweet from the association said the Liverpool star had tested positive but was not suffering from any symptoms.

The Egyptian national team are preparing for their African Cup of Nations qualifier match against Togo on Saturday.

None of the other players have tested positive, the EFA said.

[arista]

[Bus passenger fined £1,700 for
not wearing mask - as daily case and death figures revealed]

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-live-news-latest-uk-updates-more-than-800-police-officers-have-tested-positive-for-coronavirus-as-uk-cases-rise-to-33-470-12128224

[arista]

27,301 Tested for the Covid-19

376 have Died
51,304 Total UK Deaths


Patients in hospital
14,714

Patients on ventilation
1,275


https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

[Zizu]

171,012 Tested for the Covid-19

376 have Died
51,304 Total UK Deaths


Patients in hospital
14,714

Patients on ventilation
1,275


https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/



Today’s positive infections ?



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[AnnieK]

I read today that they think the spike in infections is due to people rushing out to do xmas shopping and go to the pub last week before they brought lockdown in.

[Strictly Jake]

171,012 Tested for the Covid-19

376 have Died
51,304 Total UK Deaths


Patients in hospital
14,714

Patients on ventilation
1,275


https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

171,012????!!!!

[AnnieK]

171,012????!!!!

I don't think that's positive cases Jake but the total number who have been tested

[DouglasS]

I don't think that's positive cases Jake but the total number who have been tested

Yup. Testing abilities are much greater now as all Liverpool are being tested in bulk

[Zizu]

I read today that they think the spike in infections is due to people rushing out to do xmas shopping and go to the pub last week before they brought lockdown in.



That makes sense as the traffic today was the busiest hrs been for months ..

( Gtr Manchester)


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[Crimson Dynamo]

R rate down for 2nd week in a row

[Zizu]

R rate down for 2nd week in a row



33,000 new positive cases yesterday and 27,000+ new cases today ..


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[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/1073C/production/_115488376_mail-14novem-nc.png

[arista]

171,012????!!!!


My error, I put the Wrong one
should be 27,301 Tested for Covid-19 yesterday.



The 171 is the last 7 days
which I do not post

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

[Zizu]

Sooooo.. .. some important personal news !


I wasn't allowed to say anything until this point, but I have volunteered for vaccine trials for Covid-19 that Bupa are running in partnership with Cambridge University. It's important that we all do our part to beat this virus. The vaccine is the one that has been developed in Russia. I received my first dose yesterday morning at 08:00 am, and I wanted to let you know that it’s completely safe, with иo side effects whatsoeveя, and that I feelshκι я чувствую себя немного странно и я думаю, что вытащил ослиные уши. чувствую себя немного странно.


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[Nicky91]

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1327506819644846080

[arista]

Sooooo.. .. some important personal news !


I wasn't allowed to say anything until this point, but I have volunteered for vaccine trials for Covid-19 that Bupa are running in partnership with Cambridge University. It's important that we all do our part to beat this virus. The vaccine is the one that has been developed in Russia. I received my first dose yesterday morning at 08:00 am, and I wanted to let you know that it’s completely safe, with иo side effects whatsoeveя, and that I feelshκι я чувствую себя немного странно и я думаю, что вытащил ослиные уши. чувствую себя немного странно.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


You are trusting the Russians?

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=uHkW2_1605277277

[Nicky91]

another full lockdown for Austria

[Cherie]

Sooooo.. .. some important personal news !


I wasn't allowed to say anything until this point, but I have volunteered for vaccine trials for Covid-19 that Bupa are running in partnership with Cambridge University. It's important that we all do our part to beat this virus. The vaccine is the one that has been developed in Russia. I received my first dose yesterday morning at 08:00 am, and I wanted to let you know that it’s completely safe, with иo side effects whatsoeveя, and that I feelshκι я чувствую себя немного странно и я думаю, что вытащил ослиные уши. чувствую себя немного странно.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Parm beat you to it with that one

[Nicky91]

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/11/new-year-fireworks-fine-will-hit-e100-and-that-means-a-criminal-record/

Netherlands: new year fireworks fine will be at 100 euro, and that also means a criminal record


so corona does do one good thing to end fireworks at least for this year

[arista]

another full lockdown for Austria


Just in Time

[Nicky91]

https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/biontech-s-long-term-dream-from-coronavirus-to-a-cancer-vaccine-a-b136a53d-baee-4b94-b43c-e8c45faa19d1#ref=rss

BioNTech's long term dream: from coronavirus to a cancer vaccine

[Nicky91]

netherlands todays numbers

5,941 new cases (167 less than yesterday)

163 new hospitalisations (7 less than yesterday, 2,125 in total)

32 new ICU patients (same amount as yesterday, 595 in total)

86 new deaths (32 more than yesterday)

[Kizzy]

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=uHkW2_1605277277

Durrr but they 'dont work', it was only found recently they do

This was the biggest eye opener for me into the mindset of some in the UK and how they blindly refuse to think for themselves.

[Zizu]

Parm beat you to it with that one



Awwww ..shucks !!

I’ve seen it in a few places online ..


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[Zizu]

You are trusting the Russians?



It’s just a spoof letter that someone sent me by text ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[arista]

26,860 Tested today with Covid-19

462 have died

51,766 Total UK deaths

Patients in hospital
14,915

Patients on ventilation
1,355




https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

[Zizu]

I don’t pay any attention to the weekend stats or even Mondays but 27,000 new infections on a Saturday is ALARMING !


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[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/11/14/16/35675012-8948767-image-a-114_1605371991089.jpg

Today Anti Lockdown Fools
in Bristol

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/11/14/16/35674906-8948767-image-a-112_1605371886357.jpg

More Fools in Liverpool

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/11/14/15/35672754-8948767-image-a-96_1605366073729.jpg
Piers Corbyn is seen being detained
by a police officer in the centre of Bristol

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/11/14/16/35674914-8948767-image-a-116_1605372047059.jpg
Liverpool again.

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/11/14/14/35669678-8948767-The_group_had_previously_been_told_that_they_faced _being_issued_-a-55_1605364999625.jpg
You are Crazy


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8948767/Police-haul-away-anti-lockdown-protestors-march-Bristol-without-masks.html

[bots]

the girl on the right is certainly lacking any control

[arista]

the girl on the right is certainly lacking any control


Yes, it's a shame these youngers
are taken down the wrong road.

[arista]

Greggs to cut 820 jobs amid lockdown
sales slump


[Greggs is to cut more than 800 jobs because
of a sales slump due to the coronavirus pandemic.
Chief executive Roger Whiteside said the
Newcastle-based chain would
not be "profitable" if action was not taken.
In a statement, he said he was "saddened" that cuts were
necessary but "the battle with Covid was
intensifying further".
In September, the bakery business said it was in talks
with staff to cut hours to try and minimise job losses.
Mr Whiteside said: "Covid trading conditions have
forced this action on to our business and
we are all very saddened by the need to part
company with around 820 friends and colleagues,
many of whom have worked with us for many years.]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-54944006

[Zizu]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/11/14/16/35674906-8948767-image-a-112_1605371886357.jpg

More Fools in Liverpool



It’s the same at the Trump rally .

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201114/b3816f07047a0b8ffb1f1448a12a37f3.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/11/14/16/35674912-8948767-image-a-122_1605372199895.jpg
[Crowds gathered at St George's Hall during
an anti lockdown protest in Liverpool today.
Police formed a line in front of them as they chanted]

[arista]

In Germany
same crowds
But they have a Water Cannon.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/11/14/14/35672502-8948767-image-a-69_1605365366463.jpg

[arista]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/11/14/14/35672508-8948767-image-a-72_1605365386204.jpg

Frankfurt, Germany today

[smudgie]

Hmmmm, don’t we have a few going spare somewhere.:fist:

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/1258E/production/_115505157_stfront15nov-nc.png

[Nicky91]

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/romania-die-fire-covid-19-intensive-care-unit-74210156

romania a fire at a Covid-19 ICU, 10 deaths all covid patients and 10 injured

[Nicky91]

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1327742389507813376

[AnnieK]

Rates have dropped across all 10 Greater Manchester boroughs now....by as much as 32% in some areas. The rates started dropping once we were placed into Tier 3.....hopefully they keep going down.

[bots]

Rates have dropped across all 10 Greater Manchester boroughs now....by as much as 32% in some areas. The rates started dropping once we were placed into Tier 3.....hopefully they keep going down.

that's great news

[AnnieK]

that's great news

It really is great to finally have good news and see cases drop instead of rise. Just hope it continues.....our rates are still far higher than national averages so a way to go. My fear is once we are released back into Tier 3 and places like pubs and the Trafford Centre reopen, it will rise again. People need to realise that the cases drop when we distance from each other.

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Em3Jus7WMAMqR5J?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Elliot]

Experts currently predict things will be back to normal next December.. lmfao

[Cherie]

Experts currently predict things will be back to normal next December.. lmfao

Were you expecting it any sooner? :shrug:

[Kizzy]

Right... I'm very confused now. Boris johnson has been told to self isolate.
So can you definitely get this thing twice or did he produce no antibodies to it when he got it earlier in the year?

[Zizu]

Right... I'm very confused now. Boris johnson has been told to self isolate.
So can you definitely get this thing twice or did he produce no antibodies to it when he got it earlier in the year?



He had it ages ago .. the latest theories I’ve seen suggest you may only be immune for 10 to 12 weeks ..


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[arista]

Patients in hospital
14,915

Patients on ventilation
1,355

168 died today

51,934 Total UK deaths

24,962 Tested for Covid-19

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

[Crimson Dynamo]

Patients in hospital
14,915

Patients on ventilation
1,355

168 died today

51,934 Total UK deaths

24,962 Tested for Covid-19

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ Great news going down and down

[Kizzy]

So this vaccine could potentially only give immunity for 3 months?

[user104658]

So this vaccine could potentially only give immunity for 3 months?Vaccines work differently to natural immunity when they're not just a simple inoculation (giving a little bit of the live or deactivated virus)... The ones that have been developed are more complex than that. I do think it's unlikely that they'll give long-term immunity like MMR, Hep vaccines or TB etc... But more likely to give 1 - 3 years of immunity than just a few months.

It could end up being an annual vaccine for certain groups. On the other hand, if they can roll out very fast it could offer enough of a "boost" to get the R-rate down to next to nothing for long enough to get it well under control.

[Zizu]

Great news going down and down



They’re weekend stats though so always low .. even Mondays are irrelevant.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Kizzy]

Vaccines work differently to natural immunity when they're not just a simple inoculation (giving a little bit of the live or deactivated virus)... The ones that have been developed are more complex than that. I do think it's unlikely that they'll give long-term immunity like MMR, Hep vaccines or TB etc... But more likely to give 1 - 3 years of immunity than just a few months.

It could end up being an annual vaccine for certain groups. On the other hand, if they can roll out very fast it could offer enough of a "boost" to get the R-rate down to next to nothing for long enough to get it well under control.

That seems opposite to how I envisage it as a vaccine would give you just enough to fight off as opposed to contracting the virus it temporarily overwhelming your system and having to have medical intervention until you were strong enough to overcome it.
In the inoculation scenario I would expect there to be fewer antibodies that wouldn't last as long and in the recovered a greater number giving longer protection.

[bots]

they havent' given details on how long the vaccine is effective for yet, because they just dont know. Those who have been given the vaccine will be monitored long term to see how long its effective. That data should start coming through in about a year

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/7F6D/production/_115512623_inewspaper.jpg

[Ammi]

...heart-rending...

Four-year-old boy loses both parents to coronavirus within 100 days...


1327068417770352640

[bots]

covid has brought so many heart breaking situations to families, all unique, but all equally sad and distressing. It's only people with personality disorders that are immune to the plight of so many

[joeysteele]

Good grief, hapless Hancock is coming on to be interviewed by Piers Morgan.

[arista]

Good grief, hapless Hancock is coming on to be interviewed by Piers Morgan.


Yes now Lee Cain has gone

[joeysteele]

Yes now Lee Cain has gone

Still not really answering any valid points put however.

How he is still Health Secretary is totally unbelievable to me.

[user104658]

My youngest is stuck at home with me for the next 2 weeks and she's not even a direct contact. Uuuurrggghhh. She's in special needs provision and a staff member (who she has had no contact with) has tested positive, BUT the way the provision works means that because one staff member is positive, ALL of the staff needs to isolate for 14 days, and because it's specialist teaching (and also requires a large number of teaching assistants), there's no way to cover it so the entire provision has to close for 2 weeks. :facepalm:.

My added concern here is that the provision has like 20 staff, and while my daughter only has contact with three or four of those, if ANY of the 20 have a positive test the whole place shuts down. Useless. I'd rather they just shut it over winter tbqfh, the unpredictability and disruption is terrible for SN kids.

[bots]

Hancock is completely incompetent, and it's made worse because he lies rather than show his ignorance. I said right at the start of the pandemic he was not the right person for the job, and he has proved i was right over and over again

[Nicky91]

Netherlands: our radio dj's are organizing a Serious Request: The Lifeline charity event, for the coronacrisis, for one week before christmas in their own lockdown in a military hangar

[user104658]

Hancock is completely incompetent, and it's made worse because he lies rather than show his ignorance. I said right at the start of the pandemic he was not the right person for the job, and he has proved i was right over and over again

The Health Secretary should come from a healthcare background - it's really that simple in my opinion. Having them come from the guddle of interchangeable career politicians who only have a background in politics, plus maybe something like business or economics, is just an utterly ludicrous system. If they're not coming from a health and social care perspective, then their knowledge and ability to perform the role is going to be limited... no way around it.

[edit to add] I feel this way about most senior government positions I have to say. e.g. a foreign affairs secretary without an International Law qualification is ridiculous, which admittedly I believe Raab does have but many of his predecessors did not, having more general politics/economics degrees.

[bots]

The Health Secretary should come from a healthcare background - it's really that simple in my opinion. Having them come from the guddle of interchangeable career politicians who only have a background in politics, plus maybe something like business or economics, is just an utterly ludicrous system. If they're not coming from a health and social care perspective, then their knowledge and ability to perform the role is going to be limited... no way around it.

[edit to add] I feel this way about most senior government positions I have to say. e.g. a foreign affairs secretary without an International Law qualification is ridiculous, which admittedly I believe Raab does have but many of his predecessors did not, having more general politics/economics degrees.

Alok Sharma is another one ...i still have no idea what he did to earn a place in cabinet because he seems to be a complete fool. When he does a covid press conference its embarrassing

[bots]

A new vaccine that protects against Covid-19 is nearly 95% effective, early data from US company Moderna shows.

The results come hot on the heels of similar results from Pfizer, and add to growing confidence that vaccines can help end the pandemic.

Both companies used a highly innovative and experimental approach to designing their vaccines.

Moderna says it is a "great day" and they plan to apply for approval to use the vaccine in the next few weeks.

However, this is still early data and key questions remain unanswered.

Moderna's vaccine appears to be easier to store as it remains stable at minus 20C for up to six months and can be kept in a standard fridge for up to a month.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54902908

[Nicky91]

A new vaccine that protects against Covid-19 is nearly 95% effective, early data from US company Moderna shows.

The results come hot on the heels of similar results from Pfizer, and add to growing confidence that vaccines can help end the pandemic.

Both companies used a highly innovative and experimental approach to designing their vaccines.

Moderna says it is a "great day" and they plan to apply for approval to use the vaccine in the next few weeks.

However, this is still early data and key questions remain unanswered.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54902908

yes one of those key questions, what are the side effects of this vaccine, we need to know of course

[user104658]

A new vaccine that protects against Covid-19 is nearly 95% effective, early data from US company Moderna shows.

The results come hot on the heels of similar results from Pfizer, and add to growing confidence that vaccines can help end the pandemic.

Both companies used a highly innovative and experimental approach to designing their vaccines.

Moderna says it is a "great day" and they plan to apply for approval to use the vaccine in the next few weeks.

However, this is still early data and key questions remain unanswered.

Moderna's vaccine appears to be easier to store as it remains stable at minus 20C for up to six months and can be kept in a standard fridge for up to a month.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54902908

I'm working (& being lazy) so don't have time to check for myself sooo I shall just ask here; is there any info on whether this one is a single or double dose vaccine? One of the major logistical issues of the one already announced is that it has to be boosted with a second dose after a couple of weeks. For something being rolled out en masse, that's a MASSIVE issue in terms of organising effective delivery, and frankly there will be an absolute tonne of doses wasted when people miss the window for the 2nd dose. An in-and-out one shot vaccine would be a huge advantage.

[bots]

I'm working (& being lazy) so don't have time to check for myself sooo I shall just ask here; is there any info on whether this one is a single or double dose vaccine? One of the major logistical issues of the one already announced is that it has to be boosted with a second dose after a couple of weeks. For something being rolled out en masse, that's a MASSIVE issue in terms of organising effective delivery, and frankly there will be an absolute tonne of doses wasted when people miss the window for the 2nd dose. An in-and-out one shot vaccine would be a huge advantage.

2 doses 4 weeks apart. Most seem to be double dose

[user104658]

2 doses 4 weeks apart. Most seem to be double dose

Most vaccines are, I suppose. It's definitely going to result in a much slower ability to roll out in large numbers, unfortunately, with it not just being an issue of "getting people in for their jab" - but also following up, reminding them of their second dose, and making sure they actually turn up at the specified time. You basically have a window of time to do the second dose and if you miss it, you have to wait a while and then start over.

[bots]

Most vaccines are, I suppose. It's definitely going to result in a much slower ability to roll out in large numbers, unfortunately, with it not just being an issue of "getting people in for their jab" - but also following up, reminding them of their second dose, and making sure they actually turn up at the specified time. You basically have a window of time to do the second dose and if you miss it, you have to wait a while and then start over.

simple arithmetic says that when they quote x million doses will be available by Christmas or easter or whatever, the effective number is 50% max not even counting breakage, bad batches etc etc

[AnnieK]

We haven't ordered any of this Moderna vaccine yet....the Gov are scrambling to try to secure some

[user104658]

There are going to be multiple viable vaccines becoming available, I think we might end up with a really undesireable situation where it's "pot luck" which one you get in your area. A life'n'death postcode lottery, if you will.

[bots]

We haven't ordered any of this Moderna vaccine yet....the Gov are scrambling to try to secure some

yes, they put their money on 6 ... which will probably all end up good in the next few weeks. What we are seeing is big pharms trying to get ahead of the game ... i would rather wait a few weeks and see how things are then. As a consumer, are we then going to say ... hmm .. i think i will plump for vaccine 3 although 4 does look pretty :laugh:

[user104658]

yes, they put their money on 6 ... which will probably all end up good in the next few weeks. What we are seeing is big pharms trying to get ahead of the game ... i would rather wait a few weeks and see how things are then. As a consumer, are we then going to say ... hmm .. i think i will plump for vaccine 3 although 4 does look pretty :laugh:

A good old fashioned slice of capitalist competition is just what the doctor ordered when rolling out vaccines for an unprecedented global pandemic, I always say.

[Nicky91]

netherlands todays numbers

4,873 new cases (576 less than yesterday)

173 new hospitalisations (23 more than yesterday) (2,130 in total)

29 new ICU patients (7 more than yesterday) (573 in total)

45 new deaths (same amount as yesterday)

[Cherie]

Nicola says Lanarkshire and Glasgow may not have restrictions lifted for Christmas, are people going to observe? probably not!

[arista]

Live 5PM
Health Secretary Matt Hancock
10 Downing Street

With him
Prof Van Tam & Dr. Susan Hopkins

[arista]

Live now

[arista]

1328269952021827584


Meanwhile, in Police State China.

[arista]

Hancock, Health Secretary
claims to have a contract of 5million doses
from Moderna USA.

[Zizu]

Hancock, Health Secretary
claims to have a contract of 5million doses
from Moderna USA.



Can we believe anything ANY politician says ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[arista]

Can we believe anything ANY politician says ..





I do not blame you.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Hancock is utterly useless

[bots]

i refuse to listen to Hancock

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Em9aWbnXEAIlVpW?format=jpg&name=small

[joeysteele]

The sad thing is there's people who'll still believe Hancock.
After the almighty mess he has presided over as to covid.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I am genuinely astounded he is still in office

[arista]

From Ch4HDnews

New Covid Cases: 21,363


Deaths today : 213


Total Deaths :52,147


The Covid site has not been updated yet.

[arista]

1328346734477586440

[DouglasS]

1328346734477586440

She’s acting like the government should have 10m laptops on standby... if they had that the furlough wouldn’t exist. They literally cannot win, we are in a pandemic - she needs to stop being an attention seeker

[arista]

World Nations with Covid-19 over 10,000 deaths

246,684 USA deaths
165,798 Brazil deaths
130,070 India deaths
98,542 Mexico deaths
52,026 United Kingdom deaths
45,733 Italy deaths
42,603 France deaths
41,979 Iran deaths
41,253 Spain deaths
35,436 Argentina deaths
35,231 Peru deaths
34,031 Colombia deaths
33,184 Russia deaths
20,241 South Africa deaths
15,296 Indonesia deaths
14,863 Chile deaths
14,421 Belgium deaths
13,008 Ecuador deaths
12,631 Germany deaths
11,712 Iraq deaths
11,601 Turkey deaths
11,030 Canada deaths
10,491 Poland deaths
10,002 Ukraine deaths






https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/1827E/production/_115524989_dt-nc.png

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/74F6/production/_115524992_dailymail.png

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/17FCC/production/_115525289_mirror-nc.png

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/C316/production/_115524994_express.png

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Em-te1wWMAAGA67?format=jpg&name=medium

[arista]

1328672462616354818

[bots]

it was never going to be anything other than no mixing of households over christmas, people who thought differently have been kidding themselves

[The Slim Reaper]

Dolly funding the Moderna vaccine.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnBOjgDW4AAVTOK?format=jpg&name=medium

[bots]

it's 9 to 5 for Dolly so don't expect it any time soon :fist:

[arista]

Well done United Airways
NYC.
They tested everyone free for Covid-19
trip to London.

One was Positive
he never got on that flight.

Better than Heathrows Pay near £100 for a Test.



Ref:ITV1HD News

[bots]

A Spanish businessman who acted as a go-between to secure protective garments for NHS staff in the coronavirus pandemic, was paid $28m (£21m) in UK taxpayer cash.

The consultant had been in line for a further $20m of UK public funds, documents filed in a US court reveal.

The legal papers also reveal the American supplier of the PPE called the deals "lucrative".

The Department for Health was asked for comment but did not respond in time.

A legal dispute playing out in the courts in Miami has helped shine a light on the amount of money some companies have made supplying the NHS with equipment to protect staff from Covid infection.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54974373

[arista]

Sweden is changing it rules
no more than 8 can meet, now

[Beso]

Sweden is changing it rules
no more than 8 can meet, now

Yes it lools like Sweden is going to be hit hard this time.

[arista]

Yes it lools like Sweden is going to be hit hard this time.

Their Death Total today is 6,225

It could all change.

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnBS92zXIAEIF1_?format=jpg&name=small

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnBS93dW8AcGhLe?format=jpg&name=small

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnBRv3sWEAEOnYJ?format=jpg&name=900x900


Bad Teachers on a Political march

[Josy]

We are now in tier 4 so basically lockdown apart from schools are open

[arista]

We are now in tier 4 so basically lockdown apart from schools are open


Yes and parts of Glasgow
11 areas in all.

Many Good Quality Restaurants
are having to close for the 3 weeks

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54974855

[Crimson Dynamo]

We are now in tier 4 so basically lockdown apart from schools are open

and Stirling mainly due to one carehome in Bannockburn

[Zizu]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201117/ddc742592e17e56999ec66823a4d502f.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201117/ddc742592e17e56999ec66823a4d502f.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

m21?

[UserSince2005]

Wonder what his uplift was. smart man conned bojo and his gang

[arista]

m21?

No.

[Zizu]

m21?



Yep ... some numpty paid some cheeky bar-steward £21 MILLION pounds to act as a middleman to supply PPE to the NHS .


I’m guessing this happened when the government were being slaughtered for the lack of PPE available to the NHS


I did cross my mind that maybe quite a few people had their palms greased to let this crazy deal go through the books ..


I was trying to envisage the negotiations involved to settle on £21 million ..

Surely most people would have caved at £100,000 ??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Zizu]

Wonder what his uplift was. smart man conned bojo and his gang



What does uplift mean in this context ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[arista]

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

This Official Government Covid Site
has NOT been changed since Sunday.

[Zizu]

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

This Official Government Covid Site
has NOT been changed since Sunday.



Presumably the numbers will start decreasing a couple of weeks after the start of the lockdown ??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[The Slim Reaper]

Yep ... some numpty paid some cheeky bar-steward £21 MILLION pounds to act as a middleman to supply PPE to the NHS .


I’m guessing this happened when the government were being slaughtered for the lack of PPE available to the NHS


I did cross my mind that maybe quite a few people had their palms greased to let this crazy deal go through the books ..


I was trying to envisage the negotiations involved to settle on £21 million ..

Surely most people would have caved at £100,000 ??


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

They've been dishing these contracts out to donors and friends throughout. This is small compared to most of them that are worth hundreds of £millions each.

[Zizu]

They've been dishing these contracts out to donors and friends throughout. This is small compared to most of them that are worth hundreds of £millions each.


Surely this kind of thing should be outlawed with severe consequences


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Beso]

I did point out the lack of ppi at the begining then the sudden abundance of masks in every corner shop and sainsburies you went in once the panic died down a bit...and the ****ING COST

[Beso]

https://www.weforum.org/press/2020/06/the-great-reset-a-unique-twin-summit-to-begin-2021#:~:text=The%20announcement%20of%20the%20Great %20Reset%20is%20made,by%20the%20World%20Economic%2 0Forum%20in%20January%202021

[Beso]

https://www.weforum.org/great-reset/

[MTVN]

1328740761962209280

Well done the government

[bots]

i see China are looking after their senior citizens

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/15062/production/_115541168_metro.png

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/42DA/production/_115541171_i-newspaper-nc.png

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/1062A/production/_115541176_express-nc.png

[arista]

Yesterdays Tuesdays numbers

20,051 Tested for Covid-19

Patients in hospital
15,830


Patients on ventilation
1,391

598 Died

52,745 Total Deaths total for UK

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

[Captain.Remy]

Wasn't it Covid's birthday yesterday? The first case in China was recorded on November 17th 2019.

[Ammi]

Wasn't it Covid's birthday yesterday? The first case in China was recorded on November 17th 2019.

https://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/5e7a061dd62bb_GHsZLyy__700.jpg

[user104658]

https://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/5e7a061dd62bb_GHsZLyy__700.jpg

:joker:

[AnnieK]

Ha.....let's hope it doesn't get the Terrible 2s now or we're all ****ed.

[Zizu]

Ha.....let's hope it doesn't get the Terrible 2s now or we're all ****ed.



I was dreading Boris testing positive again as that WOULD be a game changer ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[bots]

The week after the clocks went back saw Britain's highest levels of loneliness since the pandemic began, according to Office for National Statistics figures.

The start of November, with darker evenings, had 4.2 million adults always or often lonely, compared with 2.6 million before the pandemic.

This was the peak in levels of acute loneliness since the lockdown in March.

Loneliness Minister Baroness Barran says the next few months will be "incredibly challenging".

Figures also show that about 2.6 million adults had not left their home for any reason in the previous seven days.

Psychologist Vivian Hill says the "descent into winter" can be a "very significant factor" in how people feel about loneliness, with less daylight and colder weather reducing the opportunity to get outside

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) research, based on surveys of more than 4,000 people, found the young were particularly likely to feel cut off - with 16 to 29-year-olds twice as likely as the over-70s to be experiencing loneliness in the pandemic.

Elorm Fiavor from Salford, a young carer looking after her mother who is shielding, said there needed to more recognition of the pressures of loneliness on young people.

"It needs to be OK to talk about it," says the 16-year-old, who misses being able to go out with friends and socialising and who is helping a charity, Lonely Not Alone, which tackles isolation among the young.

"There's a lot of stigma attached to it.

"There's a great misconception that when people think of loneliness they only think of older people who are living alone."

Student Jade Low says he has missed partying and socialising in the pandemic - but the challenge is to "punch through" and find ways to keep in touch and stay motivated.

"Everyone feels lonely sometimes," says the student at Imperial College London - and to keep himself busy he has taught himself to play the ukulele.

The figures from the ONS show about one in four people experiencing some form of loneliness at the start of November.

But that week, following the clocks going back an hour and evenings getting darker earlier, saw a particular spike in the most acute levels of loneliness - those "always or often" lonely.

There were 8% of adults in this category - higher than at any point since March and above the 5% typically reported pre-pandemic and during parts of the summer, as restrictions were relaxed.

The numbers on loneliness have fluctuated through the pandemic, and nudged down again after the peak in the week ending 1 November - but they have consistently shown between 10 and 14 million people feeling some form of loneliness.

Dr Vivian Hill, who is the British Psychological Society's lead on isolation in the pandemic, says loneliness is a serious problem - and could be made more difficult in winter.

But she says it is something that can be tackled and people should be optimistic about being able to make connections and reduce loneliness.

Baroness Barran says there are new groups facing loneliness in the pandemic - such as those without internet access and those working from home who would usually rely on workplaces for their social lives.

The loneliness minister said there was funding for grassroots community projects to help people stay in touch.

But she said it was important not to underestimate the impact of things individuals could do - such as ringing someone up, writing a letter or helping a neighbour.

"It's those simple things that make people feel valued," she said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-54973709

[arista]

https://static.boredpanda.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/5e7a061dd62bb_GHsZLyy__700.jpg


Nice cake

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/ad_img/1329009553338413056/BZes5rKy?format=jpg&name=small

[bots]

Covid vaccine by Pfizer and BioNTech 94% effective in adults aged over 65 latest trial data suggests

[arista]

For TS.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnGqpR7XEAIZVYU?format=jpg&name=small

[user104658]

Covid vaccine by Pfizer and BioNTech 94% effective in adults aged over 65 latest trial data suggests

Very encouraging, as this is the most vital age group. This is the latest data for Scotland to illustrate.

https://i.imgur.com/tEprpJI.png

Also, because I think it shows the point very clearly, this is a stacked version of the same graph but with just the two categories (under and over 65)

https://i.imgur.com/TpECPTE.png

[arista]

1328976773137260544

[arista]

19,609 Tested for Covid-19 today

Patients in hospital
16,271

Patients on ventilation
1,420

529 have Died today

53,274 Total UK deaths of Covid-19


https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/Pq2o-hPHpQQ4aROjirPN5g/https/media.fyre.co/rZeXVoRQGe244wDSX4OV_star.jpg

[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/h0F3UdlMjE27veztcmWJDA/https/media.fyre.co/BY5eDBdASQKN5OwCoPeq_tele.jpg

[Zizu]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/Pq2o-hPHpQQ4aROjirPN5g/https/media.fyre.co/rZeXVoRQGe244wDSX4OV_star.jpg



It’s a complete disgrace !!

That said it’s been going on for at least 5 decades that I know about .. which ever party was in power at the time ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/LSu2OP9H_eTpyuP2ZwXf_A/https/media.fyre.co/JOe0oOzWQWQuwUxAM77B_i.jpg

[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/-ZLVRtVgvp3kDV70NMy1HA/https/media.fyre.co/yyq79fnTJizOgcACkXqA_mirror.jpg

[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/ySH05Nb_P58cVCW_aAwWhg/https/media.fyre.co/DWv3r4HrRHWoUO73mpQ8_metro.jpg

[Zizu]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/-ZLVRtVgvp3kDV70NMy1HA/https/media.fyre.co/yyq79fnTJizOgcACkXqA_mirror.jpg



Seems fairly obvious tbh

We will continue to behave very responsible all throughout the Christmas period... that way we will hopefully remain safe and also be able to go into the new year with a clear conscience .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Cherie]

Fgs what is the obsession with the one day of Christmas, the virus won’t be on holiday ..sends completely the wrong message, hey it’s okay to mix on the 25th, the virus won’t get you but no mixing on the 2nd January :facepalm:

[bots]

i think it is complete madness that they are putting the thought into peoples minds that its ok to mix if its only at Christmas. It's completely irresponsible

[user104658]

I think the suggestion that people would be breaking the rule all over the place anyway is probably correct. But yes - I think they need to make it clear that while the legal requirements will be dropped temporarily, it is still a personal risk, especially for elderly relatives.

Imagine thousands of grannies and grandads who have been successfully shielding all catching Covid from their asymptomatic relatives at Christmas and ending up dead by the end of January :umm2:.

[Cherie]

I think the suggestion that people would be breaking the rule all over the place anyway is probably correct. But yes - I think they need to make it clear that while the legal requirements will be dropped temporarily, it is still a personal risk, especially for elderly relatives.

Imagine thousands of grannies and grandads who have been successfully shielding all catching Covid from their asymptomatic relatives at Christmas and ending up dead by the end of January :umm2:.

its a possibility, people tend to throw all caution to the wind in general at Christmas anyway financially, if the government say mix away for 5 days its going to be carnarge, I could understand it if there was no end in sight, but we are so close to a vaccine and there seems to be some good news coming out of Oxford this morning as well, why risk it for a roast dinner and a few party games, its madness, people can gather at any time during the year, this focus on one or two days at Christmas (and this goes for every year) is just crazy

[Vanessa]

If it's only one day, I think it's ok.
People are going to see their families in Christmas day anyway.

[user104658]

its a possibility, people tend to throw all caution to the wind in general at Christmas anyway financially, if the government say mix away for 5 days its going to be carnarge, I could understand it if there was no end in sight, but we are so close to a vaccine and there seems to be some good news coming out of Oxford this morning as well, why risk it for a roast dinner and a few party games, its madness, people can gather at any time during the year, this focus on one or two days at Christmas (and this goes for every year) is just crazy

Bwitain wikes Cwistmas Cherie :fist:

[bots]

If it's only one day, I think it's ok.
People are going to see their families in Christmas day anyway.

it takes 10 mins of close contact to catch the virus Vanessa, and the virus isn't on holiday on Christmas day. Tens of thousands of elderly people could be dead by the end of January because of that one day

[Cherie]

If it's only one day, I think it's ok.
People are going to see their families in Christmas day anyway.

how long do you think it takes to get infected Vanessa?

[Cherie]

Bwitain wikes Cwistmas Cherie :fist:

I think its a kick in the teeth to the Sikhs who have just celebrated Diwali in lockdown, and when Eid was shut down the night before, but apparently everyone else can have 5 days of over feeding and close contact :laugh:

[user104658]

I think its a kick in the teeth to the Sikhs who have just celebrated Diwali in lockdown, and when Eid was shut down the night before, but apparently everyone else can have 5 days of over feeding and close contact :laugh:

I agree to be fair - I'm not a Sikh as far as I know, but we won't be having a "big Christmas" and part of me begrudges a January of lockdown just so that other people can get drunk and argue with family members they don't actually like on the 25th.

That said, I'm in the "privileged" position of having my family right here at home, perhaps I'd feel different if I was a grandparent living alone.

I know I didn't feel different when I was young and single - I spent a couple of Christmases on my own as a teenager purely out of choice. Sending bleak texts to friends about how I was sat watching TV and eating pizza on Christmas. Leaving out the part where my family was off to my aunt's for Christmas Dinner and I had refused to go :joker:.

[Vanessa]

Good news about the Oxford vaccine.
Hopefully we get that one soon.

[joeysteele]

I think it wrong simply on health grounds to open up the opportunity for much more mixing of people, households and family too over Christmas.

Sadly, I will not be,nor my Mum or Cousin who lives in my home either.
Not a chance.

Come 2nd December, when this lockdown ends, there will be loads of people charging out to the shops and Stores in those 3 weeks to Christmas.

Who knows how many will pick up this virus then.
Then pass it on over Christmas if things get relaxed.

This year has been one where ALL had to be changed across the board.
To court being more popular to open up much more and relax more over Christmas for me would be an abandonment of duty from any government in power.

I know families want to be together, I'd love to be with all mine, it used to be the time, even when I was at Uni where I got to see family and friends over the Christmas period, who I'd rarely been able to have quality time with over the year.

Not so this year and speaking for me and those I'm protecting as best I can.
Not the singlest or slightest of risks will I see taken.
So it will be phone, e mail and other ways of wishing all a Happy Christmas, in their own homes from mine.

I actually think this building up to saying things could be relaxed over the Christmas period could prove to be a very dangerous and devastating wrong action to put in place.

On the TV today a member of the independent SAGE group indicated, the relaxing of more over Christmas could lead to funerals in February.

That's a frightening but I don't think too far away from reality possible expectation.

So for me, it's as we are now, no risks necessary or to be taken either.

[Cherie]

5 days of Christmas for 25 days of lockdown, what madness is this, I hope they have leaked this to test the waters, most people I have heard on a phone in this morning think its crazy to risk health for one day

[Cherie]

Good news about the Oxford vaccine.
Hopefully we get that one soon.

:fc: its showing a promising immune response for people in their 60s and 70s

[Strictly Jake]

They dont need to relax the rules for everyone to mingle. Everyone has made sacrifices this year and this year surely everyone can have a different christmas. Send presents via amazon. Use zoom to do games quizzes and have a drink together. Watch each other open presents on zoom. Put the tv on watch nice films. Ring your lonely relatives and have a long meaningful chat on the phone to them. Turn the music up mega loud and have a boogie with those you live with.

Surely thats good enough?

[arista]

Today 22,915 tested for Covid-19

Patients in hospital
16,409

Patients on ventilation
1,430


Today :501 Deaths

53,775 Total UK Covid-19 Deaths

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

[arista]

Good news about the Oxford vaccine.
Hopefully we get that one soon.


Yes and it can be kept in a Normal Fridge

[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/cwesj-xuyvxugPN9PtWrSw/https/media.fyre.co/fvWXJFbESaeXZwXwCQnc_2011%20Mail.JPG

[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/ezQWorhh9X9KLLThPaS_ag/https/media.fyre.co/nGVOVZIzRf6tFExfAOGL_2011%20Mirror.JPG

[arista]

https://storify.com/services/proxy/2/IUFig2GtXmGpME8k7IwKaQ/https/media.fyre.co/jqE1aLYURqy7ADrJ5QOQ_2011%20Guardian.JPG

[arista]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EnOuAsbXUAEiK-u?format=jpg&name=medium

[AnnieK]

Greater Manchester rates continuing to drop quite dramatically now. Tier 3 and this lockdown are obviously getting us going in the right direction. Still higher than the National average but definitely going the right way now. Just hope we maintain the downward trend after 2nd December.
https://i2-prod.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/article19312424.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/0_nov-19-graph.jpg

[arista]

Yes taken 5 days ago
well done Greater Manchester

[arista]

5PM Live 10 Downing St Briefing

[arista]

Live now

BBC1HD
SkyNewsHD
Times Radio DAB
LBC Radio
Radio 5.

[Zizu]

Greater Manchester rates continuing to drop quite dramatically now. Tier 3 and this lockdown are obviously getting us going in the right direction. Still higher than the National average but definitely going the right way now. Just hope we maintain the downward trend after 2nd December.
https://i2-prod.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/incoming/article19312424.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/0_nov-19-graph.jpg



Interesting...we’re in Gtr Manchester and haven’t noticed any change in the traffic and I don’t know anyone who’s off work as happened in the first lockdown .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[arista]

20,252 have tested for Covid-19 today


Patients in hospital
16,444

Patients on ventilation
1,426

Today 511 have died

54,286 Total UK deaths


https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

[Crimson Dynamo]

cut through the covid hysteria here:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/how-likely-is-the-nhs-to-be-overwhelmed-by-covid-

[Crimson Dynamo]

btw my smoker mate Jem, 58, overweight, drinks like a fish pal who had covid said his cold last year was far worse

is fine now, small cough for a few days

[Scarlett.]

btw my smoker mate Jem, 58, overweight, drinks like a fish pal who had covid said his cold last year was far worse

is fine now, small cough for a few days

Oh well if Jem is fine, them COVID must not be that bad /s

[Crimson Dynamo]

Oh well if Jem is fine, them COVID must not be that bad /s

its an example what example can you provide from your life?

please share as i id?

[bots]

btw my smoker mate Jem, 58, overweight, drinks like a fish pal who had covid said his cold last year was far worse

is fine now, small cough for a few days

a good friend of mine in good health and not old just passed away from it, so please stop minimising the seriousness of the virus, it's insensitive and distasteful

[Crimson Dynamo]

a good friend of mine in good health and not old just passed away from it, so please stop minimising the seriousness of the virus, it's insensitive and distasteful

what i posted was factual. by saying your example is better than mine as its is more grave is misleading and adds to the hysteria


please do not put your take on my intentions

i drove to work and it was fine

omg my dad died in a car crash how dare you suggest driving is safe

NO

[AnnieK]

Interesting...we’re in Gtr Manchester and haven’t noticed any change in the traffic and I don’t know anyone who’s off work as happened in the first lockdown .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I think its more that the pubs have been shut. I work in recruitment and a lot of my clients have reverted to working from home. I travel on the M60 every day and whilst it's not like the first lockdown, the traffic is lighter than it was

[user104658]

a good friend of mine in good health and not old just passed away from it, so please stop minimising the seriousness of the virus, it's insensitive and distasteful

what i posted was factual. by saying your example is better than mine as its is more grave is misleading and adds to the hysteria


please do not put your take on my intentions

i drove to work and it was fine

omg my dad died in a car crash how dare you suggest driving is safe

NO

As much as it pains me to say it; LT's logic is actually sound, here. Isolated examples of healthy younger people dying happen but are very rare (usually an extreme immune response rather than the respiratory failure that kills older people) and those rare examples don't change the facts of the illness, much as LT says, just like a car wreck (or even a 20 car pile-up) on the motorway doesn't mean that driving on the motorway is suddenly more dangerous.

Covid deaths are 80% in the over-75's, and the VAST majority of deaths under 65 involve a complicating condition of some description (usually heart, lung, immune disorder or diabetes).

Those are just the statistical facts. I know it doesn't necessarily make it less scary, nor does it lessen the impact of any death, but the numbers are what they are. Unbiased, non-political fact.

[Zizu]

I think its more that the pubs have been shut. I work in recruitment and a lot of my clients have reverted to working from home. I travel on the M60 every day and whilst it's not like the first lockdown, the traffic is lighter than it was



The official stats showed the traffic had reduced by just 3% since this lockdown started ... I was in a flaming gridlock going to work ( high school) the other morning on an A road at around 7.50 am


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Crimson Dynamo]

As much as it pains me to say it; LT's logic is actually sound, here. Isolated examples of healthy younger people dying happen but are very rare (usually an extreme immune response rather than the respiratory failure that kills older people) and those rare examples don't change the facts of the illness, much as LT says, just like a car wreck (or even a 20 car pile-up) on the motorway doesn't mean that driving on the motorway is suddenly more dangerous.

Covid deaths are 80% in the over-75's, and the VAST majority of deaths under 65 involve a complicating condition of some description (usually heart, lung, immune disorder or diabetes).

Those are just the statistical facts. I know it doesn't necessarily make it less scary, nor does it lessen the impact of any death, but the numbers are what they are. Unbiased, non-political fact.
thank you Ts

brave. using logic. swimming against an easier tide.

[AnnieK]

The official stats showed the traffic had reduced by just 3% since this lockdown started ... I was in a flaming gridlock going to work ( high school) the other morning on an A road at around 7.50 am


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Ah, my main journey is the motorway and what used to take 40 mins in October now takes 30. I honestly haven't been in a traffic jam since the start of this whole thing and before I used to spend over 2 hours a day in traffic.

The figures are showing that our numbers are reducing....that's great news at the moment. Just hope it continues. Our R rate is also below 1 so the numbers should keep dropping as long as we keep up adhering to the rules.

[joeysteele]

Not that it matters to those who will only belittle this virus as next to nothing.

I've lost 4 to this virus.
That doesn't matter to statistics or anything or anyone else who didn't know them.

They're not just numbers to those loved ones who've lost them.

NONE of them would have lost their lives over this last year.
Except for this detestable virus.

2 of them were NOT elderly either.
One was in their 30s, a Nurse who left a young family behind.
Those are facts I KNOW and WITNESSED.
So I don't give a jot for statistics or diminishing the seriousness of this hateful virus

It's great to read of those who get it and suffer nothing of real note.
For thousands of others however that isn't the case at all.
Which leaves anything from hundreds to possibly a great deal more, left devastated and crushed from the loss of those loved ones, family,friends, neighbours even work colleagues.
That's the other fact from those who thankfully got over this with few or no ongoing problems.

Both facts fully valid too.
I wish I could be able to be on here and say I had 4 loved ones who got this but had little to no problems with it.

That's great for those who can.
Sadly, I've no chance of that as all 4 were lives were lost, before their time too.
Only gone because of covid.

[Zizu]

Ah, my main journey is the motorway and what used to take 40 mins in October now takes 30. I honestly haven't been in a traffic jam since the start of this whole thing and before I used to spend over 2 hours a day in traffic.



The figures are showing that our numbers are reducing....that's great news at the moment. Just hope it continues. Our R rate is also below 1 so the numbers should keep dropping as long as we keep up adhering to the rules.



We can but hope ..

Sounds like me and you are abiding my the rules so that’s a start :)



Stay safe !!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[user104658]

Not that it matters to those who will only belittle this virus as next to nothing.

I've lost 4 to this virus.
That doesn't matter to statistics or anything or anyone else who didn't know them.

They're not just numbers to those loved ones who've lost them.

NONE of them would have lost their lives over this last year.
Except for this detestable virus.

2 of them were NOT elderly either.
One was in their 30s, a Nurse who left a young family behind.
Those are facts I KNOW and WITNESSED.
So I don't give a jot for statistics or diminishing the seriousness of this hateful virus

It's great to read of those who get it and suffer nothing of real note.
For thousands of others however that isn't the case at all.
Which leaves anything from hundreds to possibly a great deal more, left devastated and crushed from the loss of those loved ones, family,friends, neighbours even work colleagues.
That's the other fact from those who thankfully got over this with few or no ongoing problems.

Both facts fully valid too.
I wish I could be able to be on here and say I had 4 loved ones who got this but had little to no problems with it.

That's great for those who can.
Sadly, I've no chance of that as all 4 were lives were lost, before their time too.
Only gone because of covid.

I'm not saying that any death isn't a tragedy Joey, obviously deaths of older people and people with underlying conditions doesn't make those deaths OK or any easier on those close to them, but I don't think pretending that Covid is equally risky across the board makes anyone take it more seriously, nor does it help those who are vulnerable to it. I don't think we have to pretend that the facts are anything other than they are. It doesn't equate to a lack of empathy.

[AnnieK]

We can but hope ..

Sounds like me and you are abiding my the rules so that’s a start :)



Stay safe !!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Aw you too.....I have followed the rules to the letter, I haven't been in a pub, eaten out or even had a takeaway since March. My Dad is in the high risk group and if I want to see him I need to be good (although my son has been a close contact at school 3 times now)

You stay safe, we will all be through this soon.

Xx

[Scarlett.]

its an example what example can you provide from your life?

please share as i id?

I know someone who died from it :shrug:

[joeysteele]

I'm not saying that any death isn't a tragedy Joey, obviously deaths of older people and people with underlying conditions doesn't make those deaths OK or any easier on those close to them, but I don't think pretending that Covid is equally risky across the board makes anyone take it more seriously, nor does it help those who are vulnerable to it. I don't think we have to pretend that the facts are anything other than they are. It doesn't equate to a lack of empathy.

As to those who get it, who don't know they have it, have no symptoms or next to none.
That virus remains a more than severe threat to others who would be massively put at risk from it.

In your statistics how many people got it, elderly or with other conditions actually got it from others much younger who had it I wonder.

It is risky across the board if those younger pass it on to those much older.
There's another fact.

[joeysteele]

I know someone who died from it :shrug:

Sorry to hear that. Scarlett, very much so.

I won't pry, I just hope all connected to the lost loved one, as family or friends are alright.

I doubt I'll ever erase the trauma I found myself in on my 4 losses.

[Scarlett.]

Sorry to hear that. Scarlett, very much so.

I won't pry, I just hope all connected to the lost loved one, as family or friends are alright.

I doubt I'll ever erase the trauma I found myself in on my 4 losses.

Their partner caught it at the same time, and thankfully survived, I hate this virus so much and cant wait for the day when it is gone for good

[joeysteele]

Their partner caught it at the same time, and thankfully survived, I hate this virus so much and cant wait for the day when it is gone for good

Me too, desperately so.

Thank you for sharing that Scarlett.

[arista]

https://c.files.bbci.co.uk/108E1/production/_115590876_tele-nc.png

[Kizzy]

As much as it pains me to say it; LT's logic is actually sound, here. Isolated examples of healthy younger people dying happen but are very rare (usually an extreme immune response rather than the respiratory failure that kills older people) and those rare examples don't change the facts of the illness, much as LT says, just like a car wreck (or even a 20 car pile-up) on the motorway doesn't mean that driving on the motorway is suddenly more dangerous.

Covid deaths are 80% in the over-75's, and the VAST majority of deaths under 65 involve a complicating condition of some description (usually heart, lung, immune disorder or diabetes).

Those are just the statistical facts. I know it doesn't necessarily make it less scary, nor does it lessen the impact of any death, but the numbers are what they are. Unbiased, non-political fact.

I don't believe that logic is that sound tbh... It's been strongly suggested there are 2 strains with one more aggressive than the other affecting younger healthy people too, there is also ' long covid' which may or may not be yet another strain. Neither should be downplayed as just an anomaly.
Repeating as you do regularly that it is primarily the elderly affected is not helpful, 1/5 of all deaths is still a considerable amount of people.

[joeysteele]

I don't believe that logic is that sound tbh... It's been strongly suggested there are 2 strains with one more aggressive than the other affecting younger healthy people too, there is also ' long covid' which may or may not be yet another strain. Neither should be downplayed as just an anomaly.
Repeating as you do regularly that it is primarily the elderly affected is not helpful, 1/5 of all deaths is still a considerable amount of people.

Absolutely right Kizzy.
Also I say again, those younger who have it are also in part infecting those much older or with other health conditions.

Just throwing it out as an elderly risk is wrong too.

Look at the health workers, yes, workers of all ages who have lost their lives to covid.

Numbers of deaths or percentages in relation to the population are just dismissing the real fact that there are thousands who have lost their lives over the last 9 months who shouldn't have.
For a number ofvteasons,.

Lives lost unnecessarily too.

It's REALLY like an attitude of so what it's only the elderly who will end up dying from it.

I have my own grievances on this issue as I know every one of the 4 people, yes PEOPLE, living human beings, who I've lost from my life, that NONE of them without covid happening would have lost their lives these last months.

Easy to just dismiss deaths as fractions or percentages.
It is nevertheless the fact these are loved ones of multi thousands of others.
It makes me mad.
Even moreso when for the 4 I've lost, I know they were avoidable deaths where they were put at unacceptable and dangerous risk.
Hence my distrust and fury at this totally inept and useless PM with his government too.

[hijaxers]

Not that it matters to those who will only belittle this virus as next to nothing.

I've lost 4 to this virus.
That doesn't matter to statistics or anything or anyone else who didn't know them.

They're not just numbers to those loved ones who've lost them.

NONE of them would have lost their lives over this last year.
Except for this detestable virus.

2 of them were NOT elderly either.
One was in their 30s, a Nurse who left a young family behind.
Those are facts I KNOW and WITNESSED.
So I don't give a jot for statistics or diminishing the seriousness of this hateful virus

It's great to read of those who get it and suffer nothing of real note.
For thousands of others however that isn't the case at all.
Which leaves anything from hundreds to possibly a great deal more, left devastated and crushed from the loss of those loved ones, family,friends, neighbours even work colleagues.
That's the other fact from those who thankfully got over this with few or no ongoing problems.

Both facts fully valid too.
I wish I could be able to be on here and say I had 4 loved ones who got this but had little to no problems with it.

That's great for those who can.
Sadly, I've no chance of that as all 4 were lives were lost, before their time too.
Only gone because of covid.

:clap1:

I totally agree with you Joey

[user104658]

I don't believe that logic is that sound tbh... It's been strongly suggested there are 2 strains with one more aggressive than the other affecting younger healthy people too, there is also ' long covid' which may or may not be yet another strain. Neither should be downplayed as just an anomaly.

Repeating as you do regularly that it is primarily the elderly affected is not helpful, 1/5 of all deaths is still a considerable amount of people.I'll go with what's shown in the statistics and verified facts rather than theories in the press thankyou Kizzy, and I don't particularly feel the need to apologise for that. It is helpful to have a realistic perspective on who is most likely to be affected, so that we can prioritise shielding, treatment, and the order in which any vaccine should be delivered.

[Nicky91]

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/11/hospital-coronavirus-patient-total-dips-below-2000/

Netherlands: hospital covid patients total dips below 2.000

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2020/11/face-masks-will-become-compulsory-from-december-1-here-are-the-rules/

face masks will become compulsory in netherlands from December 1st

[joeysteele]

I'm reminded of the saying that goes, 'there are lies, damned lies and statistics'.

Statistics can be made to say and present anything anyone, particularly those in power, want them to look like.

Again all can be affected by this virus.
However those catching who are elderly or more vulnerable from it, from those younger who don't even know they have or have had it.

The losing their lives is connected to those who helped inadvertently infecting them.

Well, there's NO statistics for that no matter how hard people try to deflect the seriousness and devastating losses of loved ones, others have suffered.
Yes, suffered.

[user104658]

No one is trying to deflect the seriousness of it. I can appreciate that this is a highly emotional subject for many people, for many very good reasons... However, that's not really a debate or understanding of Covid-19 itself, rather a discussion about the individual and emotional impact of the pandemic.

Not that I'm against those discussions being had - but for me personally, that's not what I'm in this thread for, so I'm not going to enter into an emotive argument whilst trying to discuss the facts. I'll just steer away from commenting on the more emotive posts but I'm not going to promise that I'll stop correcting information that I think is flawed - specifically because I think too much emotionally charged anecdotal information is actually damaging to the emotional wellbeing of many people, and is worth tempering for that reason. I feel for everyone who has lost someone in this pandemic, but I don't find it a valid reason that they should be allowed to send other people off on panic-spirals unchecked.

So I'm not going to continue to argue about this, because it isn't sitting well with me.

However as a final thought, I do personally think the conversations should be separated. That's not my decision, though.

[Strictly Jake]

its an example what example can you provide from your life?

please share as i id?

One of my best friends mum is in a care home and has covid. She has had it for 5 weeks now and is getting more poorly. 12 people in that care home have died from it. Theres an example. Dont know why some refuse to take it seriously